Guild Wars 2

I think everyone would enjoy being able to wear whatever they want in the game. I would propose a “costume” slot or something similar. It would be awesome, for example, if a light armor profession could rock the heavy armor but not get the benefits of the armor level.

for the billionth thread, it would get in the way of gameplay.

the easiest way to know your enemy before you even engage is looking at what he’s wearing, and what he’s holding. remove that, and suddenly you can’t tell a guardian from an ele, and things get pretty rough when you mistake one for the other. by the time the enemy is using the skills and you realize your mistake, it’s too late.

TL;DR: allowing all classes to wear all armor types would ruin visual fidelity.

I was thinking the same thing Bruno.

However, a viable solution much as shinjin said of ‘costume’ slot is that you could wear it around cities and environment, but maybe just have it locked for wvw and spvp

Yes, please! I want a tiara for kitten’s sake!

Brought to you by a Kitten Who Really Wants A Tiara!

That’s a good idea Ethics. That’s essentially what I had in mind, as you don’t want to give anyone an advantage in PvP.

I believe some restrictions are good for the community as a whole. The current armor restrictions are something I think has more pros than cons and I would personally prefer that it was left as it is.

more variety in this game would truly be glorious so I fully support in all professions using any armor regardless of profession, but their needs to be some modifications to how the armor works though as I have heard that light armor has more stats than those of heavy armor. Also they may need to restrict this in spvp seeing as how that is where the Esports thing comes into play and if I may also add a suggestion to this suggestion for people using the whole need to identify professions based on their attire, a simple show of a profession symbol on wvw players would allow the casual player to understand what he is facing without worrying what armor he is wearing.

Please elaborate how this is good for the community?

I can tentatively get behind the WvW argument… Or I could in a game where Warriors and Guardians were two names for the exact same thing, same with Thief, Ranger and Engineer and of course Elementalist, Necro and Mesmer were just variant spellings of each other too. Which is to say, I’m unconvinced. Which is a nice way of saying it’s a very uninformed point to even make. Which still is way too nice but I’m definitely digressing now.

Seriously though, other than preventing those opposed to the idea from being saddened how is upholding this paradigm good for the community?

Not a bad idea. Most games nowadays are adding in the Remodel features. Although I am not entirely sure why you guys are using the “must see the gear to pvp with them” line. Anyone can have good gear but play horribly.

I find it more challenging and fun NOT knowing how my opponent has geared himself. I rather figure out how to counter-attack his moves. IMO.

BrunoBRS.5178:

for the billionth thread, it would get in the way of gameplay.

the easiest way to know your enemy before you even engage is looking at what he’s wearing, and what he’s holding. remove that, and suddenly you can’t tell a guardian from an ele, and things get pretty rough when you mistake one for the other. by the time the enemy is using the skills and you realize your mistake, it’s too late.

TL;DR: allowing all classes to wear all armor types would ruin visual fidelity.

I talked about this in my own thread and Ill repeat it here as well.

“I understand the concern for confusion when determining what you are up against but I feel that clothing is not the only defining factor. I don’t think it would matter if any light armors wore heavy armor because you can see their spell effects and instantly tell oh that’s a necro (dark spell effects.) or elementalist (bright multicolorful rainbows) or a mesmer (BIG PURPLE EFFECTS). Nor do I think it matters if a ranger uses heavy armor or a warrior uses cloth. If you see that you are getting hailed by arrows you know a ranger is after you, and if you see someone come flying/spinning at you with a sword you know it’s a warrior. "

TL:DR: Character skills and special effects define professions more than armor.

^ like i said on that very post, “by the time you figure out who you’re fighting against by the way they’re killing you, it’s too late to make the ‘fight or flight’ call”.

there’s a huge issue with, say, a thief misjudging a squishy ele for a tanky guardian with perma-aegis and throwing away his backstab because the guardian was 1- wearing light armor, and 2- had his staff on his back, thus the aegis effect is invisible.

as the game is right now, if you see someone with heavy armor and a staff, you know immediately that it’s a guardian, and that because of that, you have to break his aegis before unleashing a stronger attack.

that’s just the simplest example, and the easier to draw situations.

BrunoBRS.5178:

^ like i said on that very post, “by the time you figure out who you’re fighting against by the way they’re killing you, it’s too late to make the ‘fight or flight’ call”.

Then by that standard even trying to register what their armor is is pointless. Either way you have to go through multistep processing in order to determine fight/flight. If you see its heavy armor then you have to determine if its a warrior or a guardian and then what weapons they are using then analyze to see if you have the ability to take that on. Then there are 4 light armors which takes even more time to register.

No matter what you still have to think. And even if allowing cross armor cosmetics somehow makes it harder to identify, then I think PVP needs that little extra stimulation to become a better player.

Onestar.2479:

BrunoBRS.5178:

^ like i said on that very post, “by the time you figure out who you’re fighting against by the way they’re killing you, it’s too late to make the ‘fight or flight’ call”.

Then by that standard even trying to register what their armor is is pointless. Either way you have to go through multistep processing in order to determine fight/flight. If you see its heavy armor then you have to determine if its a warrior or a guardian and then what weapons they are using then analyze to see if you have the ability to take that on. Then there are 4 light armors which takes even more time to register.

No matter what you still have to think. And even if allowing cross armor cosmetics somehow makes it harder to identify, then I think PVP needs that little extra stimulation to become a better player.

but that’s the thing. currently, you have to think. with everyone wearing any armor, it’s anyone’s guess who that dude is. there isn’t any more thought process behind it. you wouldn’t be able to think and deduce anything from looking at a player anymore.

the armor type says a lot about your chances of taking an enemy down, because of how armor types work on defensive stats, and the average health pool of characters from specific armor types.

Wrong, you can tell the class based on there weapons/combat animations.

It doesn’t matter what they wear actually, I don’t even pay attention to that, I pay attention to there actions.

Daecollo.9578:

Wrong, you can tell the class based on there weapons/combat animations.

It doesn’t matter what they wear actually, I don’t even pay attention to that, I pay attention to there actions.

for the third time in this thread:

by the time the enemy is using the skills and you realize your mistake, it’s too late.

BrunoBRS.5178:

^ like i said on that very post, “by the time you figure out who you’re fighting against by the way they’re killing you, it’s too late to make the ‘fight or flight’ call”.

there’s a huge issue with, say, a thief misjudging a squishy ele for a tanky guardian with perma-aegis and throwing away his backstab because the guardian was 1- wearing light armor, and 2- had his staff on his back, thus the aegis effect is invisible.

as the game is right now, if you see someone with heavy armor and a staff, you know immediately that it’s a guardian, and that because of that, you have to break his aegis before unleashing a stronger attack.

that’s just the simplest example, and the easier to draw situations.

By the time you figure out what class/armor your opponent is and/or wearing, you’ll be dead already or close to dead.

You’re then making pvp much harder then it should by trying to analyze your opponent in a detailed manner.

Why not just look at the icon text to the players picture and go “he’s guardian which means this, this and this can happen” rather then “He is a guardian, wearing this gear, with those wpns which means this this and this will happen which means I need to do this this and this” That’s too much thinking, IMO.

:)

BrunoBRS.5178:

but that’s the thing. currently, you have to think. with everyone wearing any armor, it’s anyone’s guess who that dude is. there isn’t any more thought process behind it. you wouldn’t be able to think and deduce anything from looking at a player anymore.

the armor type says a lot about your chances of taking an enemy down, because of how armor types work on defensive stats, and the average health pool of characters from specific armor types.

Health pools vary on classes and vitality not defense. And the difference in defense between each armor is not significant enough. With the right gear and traits any class can achieve high defense no matter their armor. It all boils down to how you play your character and what you know outside of your class.

Honestly no offence intended but if you cant think these kinds of things through without the aid of armor types within a 1 second time frame then you are not even on a level of casual PVPer. Its basic quick intelligence that a lot of people DO have and is not that hard to learn with practice. Perhaps I see that through my very analytic lens but regardless, I want to think in PVP, and not have mindless slashing at each other…

…while looking the way I would like to style myself at the same time

mystressmegs.4750:

BrunoBRS.5178:

^ like i said on that very post, “by the time you figure out who you’re fighting against by the way they’re killing you, it’s too late to make the ‘fight or flight’ call”.

there’s a huge issue with, say, a thief misjudging a squishy ele for a tanky guardian with perma-aegis and throwing away his backstab because the guardian was 1- wearing light armor, and 2- had his staff on his back, thus the aegis effect is invisible.

as the game is right now, if you see someone with heavy armor and a staff, you know immediately that it’s a guardian, and that because of that, you have to break his aegis before unleashing a stronger attack.

that’s just the simplest example, and the easier to draw situations.

By the time you figure out what class/armor your opponent is and/or wearing, you’ll be dead already or close to dead.

You’re then making pvp much harder then it should by trying to analyze your opponent in a detailed manner.

Why not just look at the icon text to the players picture and go “he’s guardian which means this, this and this can happen” rather then “He is a guardian, wearing this gear, with those wpns which means this this and this will happen which means I need to do this this and this” That’s too much thinking, IMO.

:)

no, it’s not too much thinking. clicking on the character just to be able to look away from the screen to look for the little icon is too much work. you look “heavy armor, thus, high defense and high health”.

and that’s not even taking in consideration world VS world, where scout teams have to analyze the opponents from a distance (beyond targeting range) before they decide if they can take the supply camp, dolyak, road guard, mercenary camp or enemy scout group. in those situations, most of the time the enemy is too far to be targeted and is on a non-combat situation, meaning you wouldn’t be able to tell which class he belongs to through class effects such as attunement or “i have a neverending aegis on my arm”.

Onestar.2479:

BrunoBRS.5178:

but that’s the thing. currently, you have to think. with everyone wearing any armor, it’s anyone’s guess who that dude is. there isn’t any more thought process behind it. you wouldn’t be able to think and deduce anything from looking at a player anymore.

the armor type says a lot about your chances of taking an enemy down, because of how armor types work on defensive stats, and the average health pool of characters from specific armor types.

Health pools vary on classes and vitality not defense. And the difference in defense between each armor is not significant enough. With the right gear and traits any class can achieve high defense no matter their armor. It all boils down to how you play your character and what you know outside of your class.

Honestly no offence intended but if you cant think these kinds of things through without the aid of armor types within a 1 second time frame then you are not even on a level of casual PVPer. Its basic quick intelligence that a lot of people DO have and is not that hard to learn with practice. Perhaps I see that through my very analytic lens but regardless, I want to think in PVP, and not have mindless slashing at each other…

…while looking the way I would like to style myself at the same time

1- refer to my WvW example.

2- explain guardians’ and warriors’ natural tankiness, and thieves/eles natural squishiness. even a tanky thief has lower health and defense than a tanky guardian.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Onestar.2479:

BrunoBRS.5178:

but that’s the thing. currently, you have to think. with everyone wearing any armor, it’s anyone’s guess who that dude is. there isn’t any more thought process behind it. you wouldn’t be able to think and deduce anything from looking at a player anymore.

the armor type says a lot about your chances of taking an enemy down, because of how armor types work on defensive stats, and the average health pool of characters from specific armor types.

Health pools vary on classes and vitality not defense. And the difference in defense between each armor is not significant enough. With the right gear and traits any class can achieve high defense no matter their armor. It all boils down to how you play your character and what you know outside of your class.

Honestly no offence intended but if you cant think these kinds of things through without the aid of armor types within a 1 second time frame then you are not even on a level of casual PVPer. Its basic quick intelligence that a lot of people DO have and is not that hard to learn with practice. Perhaps I see that through my very analytic lens but regardless, I want to think in PVP, and not have mindless slashing at each other…

…while looking the way I would like to style myself at the same time

1- refer to my WvW example.

2- explain guardians’ and warriors’ natural tankiness, and thieves/eles natural squishiness. even a tanky thief has lower health and defense than a tanky guardian.

1) is there a binocular item in the game I don’t know about? Because I dont know how the heck you can see what armor they are wearing when its just small blots of green blue and red.
2) The game balances these aspects. If a thief and a guardian both go tanky, yes you are right the guardian will have more health and defense, however the thief will not be ridiculously far behind and he/she will have a damage advantage over the guardian. However the guardians extra tankiness balances out that damage keeping them both on par. In addition this idea has nothing to do with the topic being discussed because we are talking about visual aspects not balance aspects.

Onestar.2479:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Onestar.2479:

BrunoBRS.5178:

but that’s the thing. currently, you have to think. with everyone wearing any armor, it’s anyone’s guess who that dude is. there isn’t any more thought process behind it. you wouldn’t be able to think and deduce anything from looking at a player anymore.

the armor type says a lot about your chances of taking an enemy down, because of how armor types work on defensive stats, and the average health pool of characters from specific armor types.

Health pools vary on classes and vitality not defense. And the difference in defense between each armor is not significant enough. With the right gear and traits any class can achieve high defense no matter their armor. It all boils down to how you play your character and what you know outside of your class.

Honestly no offence intended but if you cant think these kinds of things through without the aid of armor types within a 1 second time frame then you are not even on a level of casual PVPer. Its basic quick intelligence that a lot of people DO have and is not that hard to learn with practice. Perhaps I see that through my very analytic lens but regardless, I want to think in PVP, and not have mindless slashing at each other…

…while looking the way I would like to style myself at the same time

1- refer to my WvW example.

2- explain guardians’ and warriors’ natural tankiness, and thieves/eles natural squishiness. even a tanky thief has lower health and defense than a tanky guardian.

1) is there a binocular item in the game I don’t know about? Because I dont know how the heck you can see what armor they are wearing when its just small blots of green blue and red.
2) The game balances these aspects. If a thief and a guardian both go tanky, yes you are right the guardian will have more health and defense, however the thief will not be ridiculously far behind and he/she will have a damage advantage over the guardian. However the guardians extra tankiness balances out that damage keeping them both on part. In addition this idea has nothing to do with the topic being discussed because we are talking about visual aspects not balance aspects.

1- no, but you should do some more scouting in WvW. you can spot enemies defending camps far enough to not be targetable, but close enough to tell the armor type.

2- yes, and it’s exactly that kind of balance information that i’d like to have in a split second, just by looking at my foe. a burst thief knows he can’t take down a tank guardian, at least not fast enough for the rest of the group to do anything about it. but he can take a squishy enemy down and run off, cutting the enemy’s offense because a squishy dps is dead before the fight even started. mistaking the latter for the former can cost the operation.

This is a terrible idea. No need to give explanations as it’s already been covered.

There’s a reason this doesn’t exist in any other mmo/game.

You can already transmute armor and weapons…and now you want to look like another class? That’s laughable. It opens up a whole can of worms, whether you believe or not.

This is almost as bad as the Race Change thread. Almost.

Schakal.6091:

… Or I could in a game where Warriors and Guardians were two names for the exact same thing, same with Thief, Ranger and Engineer and of course Elementalist, Necro and Mesmer were just variant spellings of each other too. Which is to say, I’m unconvinced. Which is a nice way of saying it’s a very uninformed point to even make. Which still is way too nice but I’m definitely digressing now.

+1

BrunoBRS.5178:

Daecollo.9578:

Wrong, you can tell the class based on there weapons/combat animations.

It doesn’t matter what they wear actually, I don’t even pay attention to that, I pay attention to there actions.

for the third time in this thread:

by the time the enemy is using the skills and you realize your mistake, it’s too late.

Is that a thief or an engineer?

Oh wait, I’m dead.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Onestar.2479:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Onestar.2479:

BrunoBRS.5178:

but that’s the thing. currently, you have to think. with everyone wearing any armor, it’s anyone’s guess who that dude is. there isn’t any more thought process behind it. you wouldn’t be able to think and deduce anything from looking at a player anymore.

the armor type says a lot about your chances of taking an enemy down, because of how armor types work on defensive stats, and the average health pool of characters from specific armor types.

Health pools vary on classes and vitality not defense. And the difference in defense between each armor is not significant enough. With the right gear and traits any class can achieve high defense no matter their armor. It all boils down to how you play your character and what you know outside of your class.

Honestly no offence intended but if you cant think these kinds of things through without the aid of armor types within a 1 second time frame then you are not even on a level of casual PVPer. Its basic quick intelligence that a lot of people DO have and is not that hard to learn with practice. Perhaps I see that through my very analytic lens but regardless, I want to think in PVP, and not have mindless slashing at each other…

…while looking the way I would like to style myself at the same time

1- refer to my WvW example.

2- explain guardians’ and warriors’ natural tankiness, and thieves/eles natural squishiness. even a tanky thief has lower health and defense than a tanky guardian.

1) is there a binocular item in the game I don’t know about? Because I dont know how the heck you can see what armor they are wearing when its just small blots of green blue and red.
2) The game balances these aspects. If a thief and a guardian both go tanky, yes you are right the guardian will have more health and defense, however the thief will not be ridiculously far behind and he/she will have a damage advantage over the guardian. However the guardians extra tankiness balances out that damage keeping them both on part. In addition this idea has nothing to do with the topic being discussed because we are talking about visual aspects not balance aspects.

1- no, but you should do some more scouting in WvW. you can spot enemies defending camps far enough to not be targetable, but close enough to tell the armor type.

2- yes, and it’s exactly that kind of balance information that i’d like to have in a split second, just by looking at my foe. a burst thief knows he can’t take down a tank guardian, at least not fast enough for the rest of the group to do anything about it. but he can take a squishy enemy down and run off, cutting the enemy’s offense because a squishy dps is dead before the fight even started. mistaking the latter for the former can cost the operation.

1) I understand that aspect of scouting and I sympathize for it. But currently that’s your only argument that I feel I can not argue against, and its not enough to convince me that having armor cosmetic crossovers will destroy WvW and PVP. And it doesnt completely ruin scouting either.
2) Armor does not determine that. That’s generalizing that a guardian with heavy armor means hes unloaded 30 points into the defense branch. You cant tell if a guardian has a tanky build and you cant tell if a thief has a burst build or if the light armor person you are attacking has a tanky build because those deal with stats and traits that you CAN NOT SEE nor predict based off of what information you can obtain.

runeblade.7514:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Daecollo.9578:

Wrong, you can tell the class based on there weapons/combat animations.

It doesn’t matter what they wear actually, I don’t even pay attention to that, I pay attention to there actions.

for the third time in this thread:

by the time the enemy is using the skills and you realize your mistake, it’s too late.

Is that a thief or an engineer?

Oh wait, I’m dead.

thieves and engineers have similar health pools and armor. refer to the WvW scenario example i posted.

Onestar.2479:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Onestar.2479:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Onestar.2479:

BrunoBRS.5178:

but that’s the thing. currently, you have to think. with everyone wearing any armor, it’s anyone’s guess who that dude is. there isn’t any more thought process behind it. you wouldn’t be able to think and deduce anything from looking at a player anymore.

the armor type says a lot about your chances of taking an enemy down, because of how armor types work on defensive stats, and the average health pool of characters from specific armor types.

Health pools vary on classes and vitality not defense. And the difference in defense between each armor is not significant enough. With the right gear and traits any class can achieve high defense no matter their armor. It all boils down to how you play your character and what you know outside of your class.

Honestly no offence intended but if you cant think these kinds of things through without the aid of armor types within a 1 second time frame then you are not even on a level of casual PVPer. Its basic quick intelligence that a lot of people DO have and is not that hard to learn with practice. Perhaps I see that through my very analytic lens but regardless, I want to think in PVP, and not have mindless slashing at each other…

…while looking the way I would like to style myself at the same time

1- refer to my WvW example.

2- explain guardians’ and warriors’ natural tankiness, and thieves/eles natural squishiness. even a tanky thief has lower health and defense than a tanky guardian.

1) is there a binocular item in the game I don’t know about? Because I dont know how the heck you can see what armor they are wearing when its just small blots of green blue and red.
2) The game balances these aspects. If a thief and a guardian both go tanky, yes you are right the guardian will have more health and defense, however the thief will not be ridiculously far behind and he/she will have a damage advantage over the guardian. However the guardians extra tankiness balances out that damage keeping them both on part. In addition this idea has nothing to do with the topic being discussed because we are talking about visual aspects not balance aspects.

1- no, but you should do some more scouting in WvW. you can spot enemies defending camps far enough to not be targetable, but close enough to tell the armor type.

2- yes, and it’s exactly that kind of balance information that i’d like to have in a split second, just by looking at my foe. a burst thief knows he can’t take down a tank guardian, at least not fast enough for the rest of the group to do anything about it. but he can take a squishy enemy down and run off, cutting the enemy’s offense because a squishy dps is dead before the fight even started. mistaking the latter for the former can cost the operation.

1) I understand that aspect of scouting and I sympathize for it. But currently that’s your only argument that I feel I can not argue against, and its not enough to convince me that having armor cosmetic crossovers will destroy WvW and PVP. And it doesnt completely ruin scouting either.
2) Armor does not determine that. That’s generalizing that a guardian with heavy armor means hes unloaded 30 points into the defense branch. You cant tell if a guardian has a tanky build and you cant tell if a thief has a burst build or if the light armor person you are attacking has a tanky build because those deal with stats and traits that you CAN NOT SEE nor predict based off of what information you can obtain.

1- it wouldn’t ruin, no, but it would be a nuisance, one that doesn’t exist yet, and one that gets in the way of the strategic element of WvW.

2- no, it doesn’t determine, you’re right. but what it does is give me a strategic advice. there is a much higher chance of my initial burst being successful against the light armor guy (especially if there are no signs of necro activity nearby, like pets or signs) than against the heavy armor guy, because even the tankiest of eles or mesmers will still be weaker than a potential guardian (remember that hidden aegis? that’s one wasted backstab, half of the burst gone to waste). it’s far more strategic than the pure, nothing to base on guesswork that it would be with cross-profession armor.

and it’s that strategic element that i would not want to see go away, as it would if the suggestion were to become true.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Onestar.2479:

1) I understand that aspect of scouting and I sympathize for it. But currently that’s your only argument that I feel I can not argue against, and its not enough to convince me that having armor cosmetic crossovers will destroy WvW and PVP. And it doesnt completely ruin scouting either.
2) Armor does not determine that. That’s generalizing that a guardian with heavy armor means hes unloaded 30 points into the defense branch. You cant tell if a guardian has a tanky build and you cant tell if a thief has a burst build or if the light armor person you are attacking has a tanky build because those deal with stats and traits that you CAN NOT SEE nor predict based off of what information you can obtain.

1- it wouldn’t ruin, no, but it would be a nuisance, one that doesn’t exist yet, and one that gets in the way of the strategic element of WvW.

2- no, it doesn’t determine, you’re right. but what it does is give me a strategic advice. there is a much higher chance of my initial burst being successful against the light armor guy (especially if there are no signs of necro activity nearby, like pets or signs) than against the heavy armor guy, because even the tankiest of eles or mesmers will still be weaker than a potential guardian (remember that hidden aegis? that’s one wasted backstab, half of the burst gone to waste). it’s far more strategic than the pure, nothing to base on guesswork that it would be with cross-profession armor.

and it’s that strategic element that i would not want to see go away, as it would if the suggestion were to become true.

1) Well then this branch of the topic hits a brick wall because its also a nuisance for a majority of people to find the armor they want so that they can look they way they want. Both our arguments stand on a nuisance, which means one has to be sacrificed for the good of the community. That’s up to whatever Anet deems the majority.

2)While I do agree that what you say here is a very special strategic element that I myself like as well, don’t you think that if you were already bent on trying to sneak up on an opponent that you would take a split second to look at their profession? I’m looking at this from a thieves perspective so if instead I looked at this from a warriors perspective wouldn’t you not give any care? lol you are a warrior all you do is charge in no matter what the enemy.

3) to throw this in, not every light armor person and their mother is going to wear heavy armor (in fact I don’t think a lot of people like that). I think most people like myself want to just make small variations to their look. For instance myself I just want a fedora on my head but I am denied that because of armor restrictions.
plus, I personally thing that having a light armor person wear cosmetic heavy armor is a strategy in itself. If we follow up with this suggestion then we only cause a slight hindrance to the strat that we both like very much, and create another more exciting strat that we as intelligent people could come up with new strategies to work against.

1) Um.. if its that quickly then it wouldn’t matter, you would already be dead if your reflexes are that slow, it wouldn’t matter if it was a thief or engineer….

2) This is comming from someone who does mostly nothing but pvp… but the SOUNDS AND EFFECTS ALONE tell you what the other class is, if you hear the stealth sounds YOU Know its a thief.

3) Sorry, but if they pop out of stealth to attack you, then they are a thief, REGARDLESS of what they wear.

4) I say this.
“allow medium armor wearers to also wear cloth.” – for appearance
“allow heavy armor wearers to wear medium.” – for appearance
“allow cloths wearers to wear medium” – for appearance

Alot of the medium armor looks like cloth anyways.

Honestly… Armor means nothing in this game like it does “WoW” and other games, its all about toughness/endurance, and there isn’t a magic number above anyones head saying what toughness or stats or endurance they have.

You can meet a Warrior that can take an entire raid force, then meet one that melts in 3 seconds.

You can meet a Thief that dies instantly, then one that dodges/endures his way around several players.

You can meet a necromancer that melts instantly, then meet another one that can tank 10 people and then go into death shroud and run away…

Please, I beg of you, keep arguing with me so I can proove you wrong.
“honestly, some Necromancers in plate armor would be quite appropriate….”

Here is some examples…
Guardians – Able to use Cloth/Heavy Armor Appearances. (Think Monk.)
Necromancers – Able to use Cloth/Heavy Armor Appearances. (Think Dark Knight.)
Warrior – Able to use Cloth/Heavy Armor Appearances. (Think Berserker.)
Thief – Able to use Medium/Cloth Armor Appearances. (Think Ninja)
Ranger – Able to use Medium/Cloth Armor Appearances. (Think Tracker.)
Engineer – Able to use Medium/Heavy Armor Appearances. (Think Robot.)
Elementalist – Able to use Cloth/Medium Armor Appearances (Think Pyro.)
Mesmer – Able to use Cloth/Medium Armor Appearances (Think Magician.)

All these would work, because for every class there is either a tanky-type playstyle or a squishy type one, even warriors in plate armor with berserker’s set die pretty much instantly, and necromancers full survival can live through raids…

There are no “tank” classes I understand, but if you gave a thief more defence or an elementalists more defence to acompany their already high dmg, why even have professins like Guardian? Not to mention Mages with bulky metal pauldrons and breastplates just would look funky. There is already transmutation so if you don’t like the look but like the stats, transmute. They limit armour availibility for balance because “Soldier” type classes are on the frontline getting hit harder, so they need the extra defenc; “scholars” just need to learn to play smarter and “Adventurers” are kinda in the middle of frontline and staying back.

Necromancers have almost no dodge and are slow and bulky, plate armor WOULD fit them, they are also very survivable…

I’d rather not do this, but increase the variation in each of the armour categories. For example, there is no reason why there cannot be medium or light armours made of mail, or heavy armours with cloth and leather-like appearances (think of brigandine), etc.

That would be alot of work, but you could get the same effect by having leather chest/plate shoulders/plate gauntlets/plate boots and leather pants. (just an example.)

If I played a necromancer, I would spec for tank and wear something like this….

Cloth Robe..
Plate Shoulders.
Plate Legs.
Plate Gauntlets.
Plate Helmet.
Stack Toughness/Precision/Condition Damage, ect ect…

Would look cool, and look like hes tough, but HE is tough, there is no tank in the game, everyone can tank with enough toughness, and necromancers get alot…

He would look like a dark knight with a staff, would look really good actually.

Daecollo.9578

That would be alot of work, but you could get the same effect by having leather chest/plate shoulders/plate gauntlets/plate boots and leather pants. (just an example.)

Well yeah, it would be a lot of work. But there will be more content and expansions down the line. The current armour restriction system is good, the lack of diverse appearances in the armour categories is not.

I wish my thief could wear cloth armor… the coats are getting on my nerves…

Daecollo.9578:

the coats are getting on my nerves…

Exactly my point. The issue is the lack of diversity in the art style of each of the armour classes.

I love the cloth armor, looks so light… some of it is very thiefish.

But i’d imagine cloth armor for necromancers having plate it for the amount of survivability they have.

I have a feeling that the ones who were arguing with Bruno have no clue who Sun Tzu is….

I really don’t think that anyone should be able to wear any armor (cosmetically). It takes away from the individuality of these professions. One thing I love about GW1 is the distinct look of each individual profession. No moves should be made to blur the lines between the professions.

^ not quite sure why you’re bringing sun tzu, other than the fact that we were discussing war tactics. know your enemy and all that crap.

as for the post way above me that brought up “if you’re stalking someone, shouldn’t you know their class by now?” it’s not stalking, but setting up an ambush, and knowing if you have a chance before you execute the ambush.

even a warrior needs to know his enemy. if you’re outmanned but the enemy group is composed of easy to kill characters, you might go with it. if it’s a group of guardians defending the supply camp, being outmanned means that you won’t get that supply camp no matter what you do, they’ll CC and tank you until you run out of health, because they have the advantage of being the defending team, which means NPC support, and they have a larger group (which was the initial assumption).

and i know it sounds like i spend hours staring at the enemy to know exactly what to do, but really, it comes off naturally, BECAUSE the armor system is the way it is. you look at the enemy and just with that quick look you know what to expect.

i’ll draw a parallel. imagine a game of starcraft. you’re playing terran. you send your recon to scout the enemy base, you scan them, and you see that he has a ton of workers, but just a few soldiers. great opportunity to attack, right? well, what if there was a mechanic in the game that allowed your opponent to disguise his army as workers? suddenly your offensive doesn’t bode well, does it?

if everyone is guessing who is who in pvp wouldnt that be a blessing?…because everyone has to assume what profession you are as well as you have to guess who they are as well…if anything it would mean that the fight would last a little longer cause both opponents would have to use generic strategies to weed out what profession each other are in order to determine what strategy to play so nothing much changes. Besides using starcraft which is a strategy game to a mmorpg like guild wars 2 is pretty bad due to the fact that they are two completely different games…not to mention starcraft is in no essence trying to implement game mechanics for the casual player.

Damion.8903:

if everyone is guessing who is who in pvp wouldnt that be a blessing?…because everyone has to assume what profession you are as well as you have to guess who they are as well…if anything it would mean that the fight would last a little longer cause both opponents would have to use generic strategies to weed out what profession each other are in order to determine what strategy to play so nothing much changes. Besides using starcraft which is a strategy game to a mmorpg like guild wars 2 is pretty bad due to the fact that they are two completely different games…not to mention starcraft is in no essence trying to implement game mechanics for the casual player.

what i got from your post:

“removing strategy and forcing players to use a generic, standard course of action is an improvement, because you couldn’t be fully effective and thus fights would drag longer, and somehow that’s a good thing, i guess”.

and no, starcraft is the perfect example. WvW is what would happen if starcraft units gained sentience and the player (in GW2, commanders) could only suggest them where to go. WvW is a strategy game, from the point of view of the soldier.

also, letting everyone wear every armor is BAD for the casual player. the current system is easy. “this guy wears this, that guy wears that”. you look and you know. your new system would cause stuff like “but why the hell is he wearing that?”. a casual player likes a clear message. letting everyone wear whatever removes that clarity.

cross profession clothing adds confusion, removes strategy, and messes up class individuality, all in one package.

I hate to return this idea to the top of the forum log because i do NOT support it,
but these are two arguments why they shouldn’t/wont implement this idea:

1. this idea exploits the heavy armour class – No heavy class wants to wear caster robes but all the caster want to try heavy looking gear.

2. Dye – the same dye looks different on leather, cloth and metal so it will create the further issue of people complaining about colour mismatchs.

Rogue.8235:

I have a feeling that the ones who were arguing with Bruno have no clue who Sun Tzu is.

Sun Tzu was the guy who had the Emperor’s concubines take out his soldiers in a spar with just tactics and discipline. Which I guess made them warriors wearing dresses.

Alex.9567:

1. this idea exploits the heavy armour class – No heavy class wants to wear caster robes but all the caster want to try heavy looking gear.

Robes would make more sense on a priestly Guardian than on a duelist Mesmer.

Schakal.6091:

Alex.9567:

1. this idea exploits the heavy armour class – No heavy class wants to wear caster robes but all the caster want to try heavy looking gear.

Robes would make more sense on a priestly Guardian than on a duelist Mesmer.

fair enough, personally I would never equip robes on my Guardian, when I can equip plate.

but the 2nd point of dye – the same dye looks different on leather, cloth and metal so it will create the further issue of people complaining about colour mismatches.

any ideas on that one??

This is just for appearance, you can tell which class is what by the sounds the class makes and what the classes do, you can tell this as soon as you enter combat and what kind of weapons they have, what there aura looks like and what animations they do.

I look at the persons WEAPON way before I look at what he looks like, if I see a hammer swinging down at me, nomatter who has it, I usually HAVE to dodge.

Robes would fit a Guardian, especially priestly looking ones, just for appearance of course, you could use a robe then plate armored legs and shoulders and gloves… make yourself look like a combat priest.

Another Example would be cloth for thief, just for appearance of course, wearing something fast and light for D/D (alot of the cloth armor looks really really nice and even ninja like for some of the molds…) would fit the thief like a glove.

This changes nothing except appearance… and really theres no reason you could not tell which class is which, especially if you want to argue about thieves which is probably what most people use in this.

This is why I restricted each class to one appearance set of armor, plate armor for thief just makes no sense at all, but on an engineer/necromancer? they are slow and bulky and TOUGH, so them having the plate option, just for appearance makes sense.

The Dye thing? Many Medium armor does this anyways nomatter what you wear, the workaround is using different colors for armor…

For Example, using Iron Dye on main pieces, and then using “Dark Midnight Blue” On armorish looking pieces makes them both match if its the heavy grey style of armor.

look we could argue over points back and forth for and against this all day if we wanted.

my main concern is this – we’ll end up seeing a much larger number of light armour professions equipping heavier armour than heavy armour professions equipping light armour.

This for me is something that would definitely detract from the game for various reasons that have been stated before in similar threads.

Maybe im wrong but by the time we find out it’ll be to late to turn back. thats the last im saying on this topic, Anet can decide.

P.S. necro slow and bulky? my sylavri necro feels as fast as any of my alts

So?

Its not like armor matters much, without any toughness/vitality ANY class will melt.

I only wanted it to be restricted to two types of armor per class.

A thief in plate armor makes no sense at all, but one in cloth armor does make sense.
A guardian in cloth armor makes sense as well. (see monk.)
A necromancer in plate armor makes sense. (they are tougher to kill then most classes.)
A Warrior in cloth armor makes sense. (see berserker.)
A Ranger in cloth armor makes sense. (see tracker.)

This would not limit the gameplay at all, this is just for appearance, your weapons and such do not change, neither do

Daecollo.9578:

So?

Its not like armor matters much, without any toughness/vitality ANY class will melt.

I only wanted it to be restricted to two types of armor per class.

A thief in plate armor makes no sense at all, but one in cloth armor does make sense.
A guardian in cloth armor makes sense as well. (see monk.)
A necromancer in plate armor makes sense. (they are tougher to kill then most classes.)
A Warrior in cloth armor makes sense. (see berserker.)
A Ranger in cloth armor makes sense. (see tracker.)

This would not limit the gameplay at all, this is just for appearance, your weapons and such do not change, neither do

this would make both the people that don’t want cross-profession armor and the people that want it unhappy.

you managed to find the “solution” that everyone would hate.