Guild Wars 2

This is a repost from my reddit post, found here.

TLDR: Ditch the current anti-farm code and leave drops alone. Instead, give players a debuff that stacks based on how many mobs of the same type you kill. This debuff makes mobs of that type gain a boost every time they attack you, the more stacks of the debuff you have the more powerful the boost they get per attack. This means content gets harder as you’re repeating it, meaning better players can farm the same location longer.

Long Version:

It’s pretty universally agreed that the current anti-farm, in the form of diminishing returns, sucks. To clarify for people that haven’t kept up with the updates, and so everyone is on the same page, there are currently three types of anti-farm in the game:

1. Killing a certain (large) number of the same type of mob in a short time reduces their drops, sometimes all the way to dropping nothing.

2. Completing the same path of an explorable dungeon multiple times in less than 30 minutes results in greatly reduced gold rewards. In addition, dungeon rewards are worse all together after this update (not entirely sure if this is intended).

3. Completing multiple DEs in short succession results in greatly reduced rewards.

In short, if you farm in a place with lots of DEs involving mobs of the same type (i.e. Orr) you lose. In addition, if you’ve found an efficient way to farm a certain path in an explorable, you’re punished with less gold rewards (also, lets agree that the <15 minute completion was broken to begin with and its difficultly should have been increased regardless of other explorable dungeon nerfs).

Basically, as the argument has been made in just about every post on Reddit about these changes, Anet is preventing us from playing how we would like by denying rewards.

My solution to this is not to deny rewards, but instead increase difficulty of content as it’s repeated. To do this I suggest a stacking effect (or debuff) on the player based on the types of mobs they’ve killed. Where the current anti-farm code says “If you kill X number of Y mob in Z time you get no more loot from mob Y”, I say provide a debuff to the effect of: “If you kill A number of B mob in C time you get a debuff for D amount of time”. If you kill an additional A number of mob B in C time the debuff stacks a second time, and so on. This debuff causes mobs of type B to gain a boost when they attack you; the more stacks of the debuff you have, the greater a boost they get each attack. The debuff would not be removed by death, relogging, or changing zone; you have to wait it out, similar to the current anti-farm.

For example (and remember, these are pretend numbers; I don’t think they’re balanced):

>The debuff for Orrian mobs triggers when you kill 100 Orrian mobs in less than an hour, and lasts for an hour.

>I run around Orr doing DEs, killing the massive number of mobs in the Orr DEs. In 15 minutes I kill 100 Orrian mobs. This meets the condition for the debuff, so I get 1 stack of the “Orrian Killer (1)” debuff. I continue running DEs, and kill another 100 Orrian mobs, but this time it took 20 minutes, because the mobs fighting me are tougher due to stack one of the debuff. This meets the conditions a second time, so I gain a second stack of the debuff (“Orrian Killer (2)”), and it’s duration is reset to an hour. I then kill 99 more Orrian mobs in 25 minutes, and take a break from killing Orrian mobs to go to the Human starting zone to kill Bandits. Because Bandits aren’t Orrian, the “Orrian Killer (2)” debuff I have does not affect them. I kill Bandits for 35 minutes, so my stacks of “Orrian Killer” drop off, and I’m free to kill another 100 Orrian mobs before I gain the “Orrian Killer (1)” debuff agian.

I suggest the actual effect of the debuff be one of two things: Mobs of type B gain some % more damage and health when attacking me, possibly stacking per hit, or Mobs gain a random boon or cause a random condition when attacking me (possibly as a chance on hit, or every X hits). In either case, the more stacks of “B Killer” debuff I have the greater the intensity (larger % damage/health or more boons/conditions).

Continued on second post because it’s too long.

The intent is that instead of punishing plays for finding ways to kill many mobs quickly (implying the content is relatively easy), simply increase the difficulty of the content on a per player basis. This effect could completely replace anti-farm of type 1.

In addition, slightly altering the debuff for dungeons, so that instead of it triggering per mob type it triggered per mob in the dungeon, would allow this debuff the completely replace anti-farm of type 2. This would have the side effect of making dungeons tougher for people that find them easy (assuming that people that can do the dungeon quickly enough to trigger the debuff find the content easy, which is a pretty good assumption I think).

Finally, with this debuff in place instead of anti-farm code of type 1, I believe anti-farm of type 3 (nerfing DEs) could be entirely removed (meaning no more diminishing returns on rapidly completing DEs).

The net effect would be harder content for those that are able to clear current content quickly, without reducing rewards for being able to play efficiently. In addition, it would keep in place Anet’s desire to force you to vary your farm: if you move to another area with different mob types, the debuff would not effect you. It would also be in keeping with Anet’s desire for content scaling. Further, it would give Anet another nob to turn: players farming too many of mob X on the whole? Gradually reduce the number of mob X that have to be killed for the debuff to apply, and as less of mob X are farmed, over time, gradually increase the number of mob X that have to be killed for the debuff to apply.

I believe this anti-farm system, over the current one, would be a huge improvement.

so it’s basically like the God Hand system that punishes you for not getting hit?

As long as it still promotes making people run all over the map it’s fine

kaffaljidhma.1496:

so it’s basically like the God Hand system that punishes you for not getting hit?

As long as it still promotes making people run all over the map it’s fine

I’m not familiar with the God Hand system, but the idea is to not punish the player, but make content harder where it’s being farmed, on an individual bases.

Edit: I suppose making the content harder could be seen as punishment, but not nearly to the extent you’re currently punished for farming.

Dairith.7804:

kaffaljidhma.1496:

so it’s basically like the God Hand system that punishes you for not getting hit?

As long as it still promotes making people run all over the map it’s fine

I’m not familiar with the God Hand system, but the idea is to not punish the player, but make content harder where it’s being farmed, on an individual bases.

Edit: I suppose making the content harder could be seen as punishment, but not nearly to the extent you’re currently punished for farming.

god hand was a beat em up that increased the difficulty level for players based on how good they actually were at the game. The only analogy is that in both cases skill determines how well you can fight the system.

This means that people who are just better at playing the game can afford to farm an area for longer than anyone else, and will increase the rate at which they progress faster without having to run around an explore more.

Right now, people are forced to run all around the map and mix up activities regardless of skill level. The new system would of course be more vulnerable to build exploits as they come along, so those should be taken into consideration in the cost-benefit analysis.

Completely agreed about the DR system and the suggestion on how to fix it so that it’s not constantly punishing players mercilessly simply for trying to play.

This suggestion awkwardly defers from the concept of “good performance.” Though let’s be honest, systems that limit the player base on values may seem prominently absurd but what really is game breaking about systems like these is that it is controversial in terms of balance and efficient combat.

Terrible idea in short, let’s start focusing on how the currencies from dungeons are handled instead.

OP, I’m sorry but it’s still not viable. There are only two enemy types at level 80. You can’t base diminishing returns on enemy type.

Strill.2591:

OP, I’m sorry but it’s still not viable. There are only two enemy types at level 80. You can’t base diminishing returns on enemy type.

Then do it based on specific enemy. I only suggest enemy type because that’s the way the current anti-farm system is implemented; it wouldn’t go amiss to split off the Orrian mobs into different types either, however.

That sounds like a lot more complicated than just removing this crappy patch altogether.

Dairith.7804:

This is a repost from my reddit post, found here.

TLDR: Ditch the current anti-farm code and leave drops alone. Instead, give players a debuff that stacks based on how many mobs of the same type you kill. This debuff makes mobs of that type gain a boost every time they attack you, the more stacks of the debuff you have the more powerful the boost they get per attack. This means content gets harder as you’re repeating it, meaning better players can farm the same location longer.

I don’t like your solution. (I applaud your initiative though) Yes, They need a fix, but punishing legitimate gamers is not the way to go. I don’t care how you propose doing it. Doing events should = full rewards…period.

I should not have to worry that mobs are going to get extra hard at random. If there is a bot/AFK proble then they need to take actions against those people. Not people playing the events.

RebelYell.7132:

That sounds like a lot more complicated than just removing this crappy patch altogether.

amen!

I think it’s rollback or I want a refund, these changes are NOT fun, are NOT punishing botters to any legitimate degree, are not offering us well, anything :S

I expect this from other companies and other free mmo’s I did not expect this garbage from a team that was touting itself as the new jesus of mmo designers, full of life and with faces, only to then disappear while the game becomes an epic grind, under the guise of “we don’t want you to grind”

tell me? is that because grinding isn’t fun, or because if we do it successfully it’s not as profitable for you?

before, I would have resoundingly stated “no way these guys want you to enjoy the game” however NOW I would state “I’m not sure, the changes aren’t matching up to ANYTHING they said before”

the heck is going on dudes :S

RebelYell.7132

That sounds like a lot more complicated than just removing this crappy patch altogether.

I agree; I think everyone would prefer no punishment at all. However, Anet seems to like the idea, given that they keep patching in these changes, so it’s valuable to offer alternatives. Basically, almost anything is better than the current system.

This is utter brilliance. The “punishment”, as some people are referring to it as, would/should only negatively affect the bots. When ArenaNet adds this to the game, I sure hope they remember to credit you, Dairith.