Guild Wars 2

Simple suggestion..removing the ability for people to AOE through a gate,or to send illusions,pets through a gate.Basically remove the ability for us to be able to hit through a gate with our skills,since imo it doesn’t make much sense to be able to do this plus it would perhaps stop the senseless aoe on gate spamming.

The problem I see here is that AOE through the gate is one of the few practical options that the defense has. While the AOE also prevents repairs to the gate, “gate repair” isn’t really practical to begin with. 3 rams will run through 200 supply in, what, maybe 2 minutes? Repairing is only really useful once the rams are dead.

And AOE through the gate is the only reasonable way to do that.

Maybe if people on walls had some advantage against people on the ground….
Or maybe if repairs were FAR more efficient…

But this change, today, would simply turn offense into “easy mode”. Moreso than it already is.

I strongly disagree,we have cata’s,balistas,arrows to defend.People inside should go up the walls and defend from there,everybody stacking up on one side of the door,both aoe spamming the kitten out of it,does not make sense imo.Besides the doors are Solid,i would agree if it were a fence like gate but this is not the case.

Btw I also disagree with your last line,it is as of now Much easier to attack while being able to hit through a gate since people behind the gate are unable to do a proper repair when needed ( insta death if 10+ spam AOE behind the gate, 100b Through a gate. ),this is especially the case when defenders are outmanned and making it even easier to get through unless you have some magic spot for a siege that is unable to be hit.Ive been doing it myself,when defending or attacking,i am able to down +finish of a player standing behind the gate..this is not right imo.

So you’re saying AOE through the gate is the only reasonable way to kill off a ram ? That in itself,should be a thing to look in to,it should not be possible imo.I think people should be able to kill off sieges from proper positions,on a wall,or going outside the gate smack it a few times and go back in,putting up counter siege..AOE is surely not the only “reasonable” way of completing this task.In any case,i really urge anet to take a look into this,or maybe join in WvWvW and see the effects that it Can have on an already outmannend group of defenders.( It goes both ways )

Caedmon.6798:

I strongly disagree,we have cata’s,balistas,arrows to defend.

All of the siege weapons you just listed are very commonly used by attackers as well, and therefore their existence does not advantage defenders in any way.

Caedmon.6798:

People inside should go up the walls and defend from there,everybody stacking up on one side of the door,both aoe spamming the kitten out of it,does not make sense imo.

If there was any substantial advantage to being on walls, I’d agree, but right now defenders are actually somewhat disadvantaged (gate AoE not withstanding), even with siege weapons. In order to attack downward at most gates, the defenders have to stand on the edge of the wall, i.e., atop the small ledge. This means that they can be pulled off of the wall by a myriad of skills available to a wide range of classes, and summarily executed by the zerg they just landed in the middle of. By contrast, defenders don’t have any way to snatch small groups of attackers apart from the main force.

In other words, in order to attack a ram, you have two choices. You can get atop the wall and put yourself at high risk for summary execution, or you can AoE through the door. Given how obviously disadvantaged the first option is, the second option is almost essential.

Caedmon.6798:

Besides the doors are Solid,i would agree if it were a fence like gate but this is not the case.

So, if the visual representation of the doors were replaced with a portcullis would that solve the problem for you? If so, maybe that’s something the dev team should consider.

There are cogent technical reasons why the doors already don’t function as a barrier to AoEs. Given the obvious balance issues that would arise if they were, I don’t see any problem here.

I have played wvwvw before,i know what defending,and attacking is,and what effects it has and what can counter a ram besides aoe spamming ( arrow cart can do the job just fine )..Besides,yes there is reason to be on the walls..you can easily hit them a few times,back off,rinse repeat ( stability makes sure you wont be pushed off ),build arrowcarts that are able to hit sieges,get people together and rush out,there are countless of things to do instead the aoe spamming.Anyways this is not a discussion on how to attack or defend,its a suggestion to anet about skills being able to hit through a gate.So i now wish for them to look into it and make their own decisions,i urge them to.

And btw yes i agree with that if they changed the gates to a portcullis,it makes sense to be able to AOE through a gate.But our doors are still solid,so it does not make sense.And i dont think a portcullis would remove the problem i suggested,it woul only make it worse.

WOW man a portcullis is a brilliant suggestion! However would people then QQ about not being able to hit behind/in front of it since you technically have line of sight too?

Well the Gate at the main keep in the center of each 3 homeworld servers actually deteriorate as it gets low on hp lettign you see everything on both sides.

Removing the ability to SINGLE TARGET attack through gates is also a good thing, since you can do that in hoelbrak with the ice wurm event.

Caedmon.6798:

I have played wvwvw before,i know what defending,and attacking is,and what effects it has and what can counter a ram besides aoe spamming ( arrow cart can do the job just fine )..Besides,yes there is reason to be on the walls..you can easily hit them a few times,back off,rinse repeat ( stability makes sure you wont be pushed off ),build arrowcarts that are able to hit sieges,get people together and rush out,there are countless of things to do instead the aoe spamming.

Huh? Nobody’s suggesting you haven’t participated in WvW. The points in my first post are:

1) You cite siege weapons as an advantage for defenders which renders attacking through gates unnecessary. That is simply false, because all of the applicable siege weapons are usable by attackers as well.

2) The walls grant no strategic benefit to defenders either, therefore “people inside should go up the walls and defend from there” is false. In order to attack from the walls, defenders must put themselves at risk of being knocked off; both sides do equal damage to one another in ranged combat when the walls are involved; both sides are unable to use melee combat. Being able to retreat and heal is not an advantage either, as both sides are able to use the walls to break LOS with the enemy – attackers just have to approach the wall instead.

Getting people and rushing out of the base… I don’t even know how that’s supposed to be strategically helpful. Since attacking forces are inevitably zergs, small numbers of people rushing in to the midst of an enemy group is not only unhelpful, but downright foolish.

Caedmon.6798:

( stability makes sure you wont be pushed off )

Not all classes have access to stability via skills that would be useful on the wall. Thieves, for example, only have stability when using their Dagger Storm skill, which prevents them from using any other skills. Additionally, on no class does stability have enough uptime to viably neutralize the problem. More importantly, the problem with walls is that they specifically advantage the attackers – while attackers can pull single defenders off of a wall and pick them off, defenders have no way of pulling individual attackers from a force.

Caedmon.6798:

Anyways this is not a discussion on how to attack or defend,its a suggestion to anet about skills being able to hit through a gate.So i now wish for them to look into it and make their own decisions,i urge them to.

You seem to have missed the point. Because of the core mechanics of attacking a fort/tower/keep, it’s necessary to be able to attack through doors. It’s literally the only factor advantaging defenders. In other words, if I’m discussing attack/defense strategies, it’s because your suggestion has a significant impact on them. You can’t ignore the broad ramifications of your suggestion simply because it’s inconvenient.

Keep as is.

Stopping gate repairs is nothing compared to the defenders being able to use AC’s or catapults behind the gate to stop rams. Whilst the enemy can do it too for towers where there is a gap through which you can see, allowing an offensive AC to take out interior AC’s, it is still not as significant as the defensive siege should be pre-setup. Allowing you to take out that offensive AC first.

I ask this then, enemy team of 30 approaches. Sets up with 3 rams. You have 5 defenders inside, but you cannot AoE through gates.

No catas, ac’s, trebs behind a gate then. How to you defend? Rams have enough HP that you would struggle to auto attack it down, and to do so you’re on the wall and vs that many will likely be instant killed by the aoe wall suppression.

Defenders need an advantage, you shouldn’t require numbers equal to theirs to defend. Thats kinda the point of towers/keeps.

Katsumoto.9452:

Keep as is.

Stopping gate repairs is nothing compared to the defenders being able to use AC’s or catapults behind the gate to stop rams. Whilst the enemy can do it too for towers where there is a gap through which you can see, allowing an offensive AC to take out interior AC’s, it is still not as significant as the defensive siege should be pre-setup. Allowing you to take out that offensive AC first.

I ask this then, enemy team of 30 approaches. Sets up with 3 rams. You have 5 defenders inside, but you cannot AoE through gates.

No catas, ac’s, trebs behind a gate then. How to you defend? Rams have enough HP that you would struggle to auto attack it down, and to do so you’re on the wall and vs that many will likely be instant killed by the aoe wall suppression.

Defenders need an advantage, you shouldn’t require numbers equal to theirs to defend. Thats kinda the point of towers/keeps.

And what can 5 defenders do vs 30 ? The 30 will also AOE through the gate once they realize the 5 are doing it to try and kill the ram,my guess is the 5 vs 30 do not have a chance no matter what.Their best change would be to put up siege in any case.Also for the mere sake of realism,the door is Solid.If we are unable to hit through walls ( as it should be ) ,we should also be unable to use skills through gates.Sending pets and illusions through them,also makes no sense whatsoever and only makes it harder for people to defend when outnumbered as opposed to what youre saying.