Guild Wars 2

Badges of honor should be removed as rewards to WvW JP’s. What do you all think?

Because….? Badges of Honor are the standard WvW base reward.

Note: “Because I felt like it” and “Because I said so” are not acceptable reasons.

I think so, for the mere fact that it would cause so many tears from the PvE lords.

I see no point in this, badges are the only “Unique” reward we get from wvw. What they should do is remove the god kitten jumping puzzles.

At first it seems sensible to not give WvW rewards for PvE tasks (including map completion), but even without that we have a really messed up system of rewarding badges. Why do claimer NPCs reward badges, and why is it possible to get TWO badges instead of one sometimes?
It should be one badge per player kill, and nothing else. JPs and mapping belong in PvE.

Mist Y.5214:

It should be one badge per player kill, and nothing else.

A server can dominate and win a matchup without ever killing a single player. You can also spend hours at a time defending a keep and because you’re doing so, you never kill other players. You’re making the mistake of thinking WvW is soley PvP, it has elements of PvE and PvD too.

ProxyDamage.9826:

Because….? Badges of Honor are the standard WvW base reward.

Note: “Because I felt like it” and “Because I said so” are not acceptable reasons.

This is why:

GuardianOMS.8067:

I think so, for the mere fact that it would cause so many tears from the PvE lords.

Sorry, just saw one too many threads whining about having to get 500 badges for a legendary (together with the usual tons of replies saying to farm the JPs using lots of alts — does that even work anymore?).

Yes, that makes me a bad person.

Mist Y.5214:

At first it seems sensible to not give WvW rewards for PvE tasks (including map completion), but even without that we have a really messed up system of rewarding badges. Why do claimer NPCs reward badges, and why is it possible to get TWO badges instead of one sometimes?
It should be one badge per player kill, and nothing else. JPs and mapping belong in PvE.

I don’t think NPC’s should give badges either. I’m satisfied with it being RNG upon player kill, however.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Yes, that makes me a bad person.

It’s okay, we can be bad together <3

I agree. In the same way that dungeon tokens are only earned through actually partaking in a dungeon, and Fractal tokens only by actually doing fractals, WvW rewards should only be awarded for actually partaking in WvW.

GuardianOMS.8067:

Mist Y.5214:

It should be one badge per player kill, and nothing else.

A server can dominate and win a matchup without ever killing a single player. You can also spend hours at a time defending a keep and because you’re doing so, you never kill other players. You’re making the mistake of thinking WvW is soley PvP, it has elements of PvE and PvD too.

I’m not saying there’s a problem with PvD – it’s smart to grab objectives when they’re undefended. I’m just saying it shouldn’t reward badges.
Defending a keep for hours without killing anyone? I don’t think that’s happened to me ever… Maybe it’s different for guardians?

But that’s a major part of WvW, to grab objectives. Whether they are defended or not isn’t really any fault of the players. Why do you believe doing something that is smart shouldn’t be rewarded?

Taking badges out the JP makes sense, but taking it away from NPCs seems a bit overboard.

Bleh, now I sound like I’m defending PvE. Yuck.

I think they should increase them! The more incentive there is to do puzzles, the more people/alts would go there, and the more profitable it would be to ambush them. It’d annoy the puzzle-jumpers and the bitter people whining that there are puzzle-jumpers simultaneously.

GuardianOMS.8067:

Mist Y.5214:

It should be one badge per player kill, and nothing else.

A server can dominate and win a matchup without ever killing a single player. You can also spend hours at a time defending a keep and because you’re doing so, you never kill other players. You’re making the mistake of thinking WvW is soley PvP, it has elements of PvE and PvD too.

How can a server win a matchup by not killing a single person?
If WvW has PVE aspects, it should reward with PVE rewards. The PVE aspects of WvW shouldn’t reward with badges of honor, which is reserved for strictly the PVP aspect.

^Which you want to be reserved strictly for the PvP aspect. For whatever reason…

Maybe they should just rename the things to ‘Mist War Tokens’ so people don’t fall for the illusion that they literally represent any sort of honour or accomplishment.

I think they should standardise the badge drops… make it so that you get one badge per a rl player that you kill (help to kill) plus loot. I would keep them for camp and tower bosses to encourage people taking them but would drop them from jp and other npc.

Seigfried.5938:

GuardianOMS.8067:

Mist Y.5214:

It should be one badge per player kill, and nothing else.

A server can dominate and win a matchup without ever killing a single player. You can also spend hours at a time defending a keep and because you’re doing so, you never kill other players. You’re making the mistake of thinking WvW is soley PvP, it has elements of PvE and PvD too.

How can a server win a matchup by not killing a single person?
If WvW has PVE aspects, it should reward with PVE rewards. The PVE aspects of WvW shouldn’t reward with badges of honor, which is reserved for strictly the PVP aspect.

Are you really asking that? Have you never seen a match up with vast population and coverage differences? You never need to touch a single player to win WvW. You simply need to outnumber them and PvD. Sorry to ruin your illusion but WvW is not only about PvP, you get points for holding fortifications, not killing people.

Again, I said it can happen, not that it has.

I fail to see why any WvW player would care if person X is getting badges from a jumping puzzle. Personally I’d rather have all the pve legendary farmers running the jp on their toons, rather than taking up space in WvW with their magic find gear.

the other day I (and a couple others) successfully defended an objective by using arrow carts to discourage an enemy zerg. the zerg left before anybody on either side could be killed, in search of an easier target.

because there were no kills, no badges were awarded. are there seriously people out there who believe that because I didn’t kill anyone, what I was doing was not WvW?

WvW has a scoreboard. you score points for holding objectives at the end of the PPT timer, which means guarding them from people who are trying to take them away from you. arguably, defending objectives is the only thing that actually counts as WvW and is therefore the only thing that should reward badges.

If you think that the idea of rewarding badges only for defending objectives is ludicrous, you should reconsider whether rewarding them only for player kills is really a good idea.

-ken

Lyonell.1753:

I see no point in this, badges are the only “Unique” reward we get from wvw. What they should do is remove the god kitten jumping puzzles.

AMEN, brother!

Thank goodness JPs are in a different instance now. It’s cut down on the JPers complaining about getting ganked in JP while their server is losing its keep! /facepalm

If you are a player that has the misfortune of being on a low tier server or has to play primarily during off peak hours those badges might be exponentially more difficult to obtain.

Removing them from an NPC loot table could unjustly punish many players.

If you were to play on a low ranked server during off peak times you might not see very many enemies at all.

As the system stand now it does not hurt anyone. I would leave it alone and concentrate on some things that absolutely need to be adjusted or fixed instead.

I have not done any JP in the Mists and I have no plans to do so in the future. I do not think those features belong in the pvp maps. I do endorse them as a reasonable option for the Pve players to obtain those badges, especially if they dislike pvp as much as I dislike dungeons.

The current badge system is a compromise of sorts. It should be left alone.

chefdiablo.6791:

I have not done any JP in the Mists and I have no plans to do so in the future. I do not think those features belong in the pvp maps.

Why do you assume it was ever meant to be a purely PvP game-mode? They have physical gates to WvW zones in LA and NPC’s in every major city shouting at people to go in or sitting there talking about it amongst themselves; whatever we make/loot/buy in one we can take to the other (even if some of it doesn’t work) and there are unrelated mobs (incl. champions which spawn chests), resource nodes, and yes there are jumping puzzles in it.

On the other hand, looking at how isolated sPvP is from the rest of the game, I think it’s pretty clear that they’ve intentionally made these three categories so that you can choose pure PvE, pure PvP, or an intersection of the two. They’ve obviously got no problem whatsoever with having a ‘game within a game’ PvP area, so it’s not as though they just didn’t want to go that far or didn’t think of it.

Personally I rather hope they stick with the idea instead of letting it be slowly claimed for strict PvP,* because WvW being connected to the greater game-world is the only thing that makes it even remotely interesting to me. If someone showed up in LA yelling about needing reinforcements for their tournament match, I’d probably spill my drink laughing; isolated mini-games with no impact on anything but themselves just don’t have any meaning to me.

Oh, and you can actually get some decent fights out of those puzzles, btw. I despise the mechanics of completing them myself, regardless of whether they’re in WvW or not, but even if I get sick of it before I get any siege from the thing, there’s a chance (depending fairly heavily on the time of day) that I can get some smaller fights inside, with interesting and unusual terrain to take advantage of (or wander into an ambush, either way). That or just find an enemy who doesn’t want to fight and make them nervous to see if they fall off. ;P

*edit: not to imply you were suggesting that, more that I rather think not just the badge system but WvW itself is a compromise.

I think this is a bad idea.

Granting badges for the jumping puzzles enables players who don’t want to do PVP to still craft a legendary (which is definitely not a WvW exclusive item).

To answer the obvious counter argument about “playing all aspects of the game.” I think it’s bullkitten. I don’t understand why someone must ever suffer through something they hate in a game.

TooBz.3065:

I think this is a bad idea.

Granting badges for the jumping puzzles enables players who don’t want to do PVP to still craft a legendary (which is definitely not a WvW exclusive item).

To answer the obvious counter argument about “playing all aspects of the game.” I think it’s bullkitten. I don’t understand why someone must ever suffer through something they hate in a game.

You don’t have to suffer through it. You can choose not to do it. “I want my paycheck this week, but why do I HAVE to work?”

lilcoffeebean.3149:

I fail to see why any WvW player would care if person X is getting badges from a jumping puzzle. Personally I’d rather have all the pve legendary farmers running the jp on their toons, rather than taking up space in WvW with their magic find gear.

Because in the BL’s they take up spots for people who are doing real WvW. At least when NPC’s give it to you when you’re killing guards, etc, you’re doing an objective. PvE people doing the JP for badges adds nothing to the team, it only takes away people. They should just get rid of the JP altogether, or give it some objective in there that we can take and hold for points and thus do WvW in that area. But they put the BL JP’s far in the corner, as if they were thinking “Well, we don’t PvP in here, so lets place as far away from any possible action as possible, and in fact add a jump to get in there”

TooBz.3065:

I think this is a bad idea.

Granting badges for the jumping puzzles enables players who don’t want to do PVP to still craft a legendary (which is definitely not a WvW exclusive item).

To answer the obvious counter argument about “playing all aspects of the game.” I think it’s bullkitten. I don’t understand why someone must ever suffer through something they hate in a game.

I hate to be the guy to say this, but, as a WvW’er: then why must I grind dungeons and grind for mats, etc to get a legendary instead of just WvW’ing. It’s a legendary, it’s purely cosmetic, and it’s supposed to show you’ve done “all aspects of the game”. It’s entirely optional, just like all the titles and many of the weapons. Oh, you want Immobulus, you gotta farm to get the eyes, or farm the money. Oh, you want a legendary, you gotta do ____. It’s a totally optional point of the game, but to get it, you have to really work for it.

I saw Badges of DisHonor in the title and thought… Badges received while in a ZERG should be “Dishonor Badges”

Seigfried.5938:

GuardianOMS.8067:

Mist Y.5214:

It should be one badge per player kill, and nothing else.

A server can dominate and win a matchup without ever killing a single player. You can also spend hours at a time defending a keep and because you’re doing so, you never kill other players. You’re making the mistake of thinking WvW is soley PvP, it has elements of PvE and PvD too.

How can a server win a matchup by not killing a single person?
If WvW has PVE aspects, it should reward with PVE rewards. The PVE aspects of WvW shouldn’t reward with badges of honor, which is reserved for strictly the PVP aspect.

I’m just going to jump in here.

WvW isn’t a pvp arena. It’s not the spvp or tpvp that is found within the ‘Heart of the Mists’.

Now I agree that WvW was very poorly designed. It should’ve been more sandbox style and should rely completely on players to not only capture but to also defend and upgrade POIs. So no camp supervisors or keep lord, etc. Yeah, there will need to be some npc’s (merchants, armor repair, BLT representative, etc.) but there is so much that can be given to the player. To be made the player’s responsibility.

Upgrade the keep with reinforced walls? Well, once the walls are repaired (done by the players), the next available option is to upgrade. Works the same as repair. You get supplies, go to the wall, and hammer away your supplies. Once enough supplies have been spent on that wall for upgrading, it is now a reinforced wall. Rinse and repeat for each destroyable wall for that keep/tower/castle…

Some other upgrades shouldn’t even exist. Need to get supplies from a camp? You, as a player spawn a dolyak and then you, as a player, can escort it or let it get there on its own. Since the spawning of one takes supplies from the camp, that then becomes a limiting factor on the number of dolyaks you can spawn at any one time.

We get wxp for defending, killing players, escorting supply runs, killing supply runs, etc. pair that with getting badges in the chest we get for leveling up and we get rewarded for doing all the WvW activities.

I sorta strayed from the original point and that was, WvW is not spvp/tpvp. It’s an open map, with mobs, resource nodes, and even npc’s (Quaggan, Dolyaks, merchants, wolves, bears, etc.). It is basically pvpve. The gear that is used there is pve gear. The gear that is bought with the badges is pve gear. It is just another way to get gear with the same stats as can be gotten elsewhere.

ProxyDamage.9826:

Because….? Badges of Honor are the standard WvW base reward.

Note: “Because I felt like it” and “Because I said so” are not acceptable reasons.

Because at peak times it would stop valuable WvW slots being taken up by people who don’t actually play WvW.

Jumping puzzles are just as much PvP as tagging a few poor roamers in the path of your zerg or leveling a supply camp in a couple seconds with a ten-man roaming group. None of those have anything to do with PvP—they’re all basically task-based actions that don’t involve opposition from other players.

While badges can sometimes be earned by fighting other players, they are just as often (or more) gained by performing routine PvE tasks such as tagging, jumping, and destroying objects. I’m not saying there shouldn’t be a reward solely for fighting other players, but badges of honor are definitely not that. And it certainly wouldn’t make sense to make a new currency like that and require it for a PvE weapon skin.

agree with op just because if i want dungeon gear i have to actually do a dungeon not a jp around the dungeon..People are going to say “but i need badges for my legendary” well its called the gift of battle not the gift of jumping puzzle…if they wanna leave the badges make it so mesmers cant port people making you actually have to earn them in a way not just stand and waiting for portals to open

Ethics.4519:

TooBz.3065:

I think this is a bad idea.

Granting badges for the jumping puzzles enables players who don’t want to do PVP to still craft a legendary (which is definitely not a WvW exclusive item).

To answer the obvious counter argument about “playing all aspects of the game.” I think it’s bullkitten. I don’t understand why someone must ever suffer through something they hate in a game.

You don’t have to suffer through it. You can choose not to do it. “I want my paycheck this week, but why do I HAVE to work?”

It’s a game. It’s not work. There should be no part of the game that feels like work. I don’t think that we should change the system to make it so other people have to do stuff that feels like work.

Edit:
But I have a personal grudge / bone to pick with extrinsic rewards (which I do not like) vs. intrinsic rewards (which I do.) I would rather have extrinsic rewards aligned with intrinsically rewarding activities.

Handin.4032:

TooBz.3065:

I think this is a bad idea.

Granting badges for the jumping puzzles enables players who don’t want to do PVP to still craft a legendary (which is definitely not a WvW exclusive item).

To answer the obvious counter argument about “playing all aspects of the game.” I think it’s bullkitten. I don’t understand why someone must ever suffer through something they hate in a game.

I hate to be the guy to say this, but, as a WvW’er: then why must I grind dungeons and grind for mats, etc to get a legendary instead of just WvW’ing. It’s a legendary, it’s purely cosmetic, and it’s supposed to show you’ve done “all aspects of the game”. It’s entirely optional, just like all the titles and many of the weapons. Oh, you want Immobulus, you gotta farm to get the eyes, or farm the money. Oh, you want a legendary, you gotta do ____. It’s a totally optional point of the game, but to get it, you have to really work for it.

Good point. I am also a WvWer. For me, it’s more that if a person doesn’t want to be in WvW, i don’t want them adding to the queue.

I agree with removing the badges from the JP… but not removing the JP’s themselves. They are a great source of siege. Just put in another random piece of siege instead of badges. That would make it easier on the dev’s as well (wouldn’t have to do anything to the borderland maps).

Lyonell.1753:

What they should do is remove the god kitten jumping puzzles.

Agree, remove the jumping puzzles.

Handin.4032:

PvE people doing the JP for badges adds nothing to the team, it only takes away people. They should just get rid of the JP altogether, or give it some objective in there that we can take and hold for points and thus do WvW in that area. But they put the BL JP’s far in the corner, as if they were thinking “Well, we don’t PvP in here, so lets place as far away from any possible action as possible, and in fact add a jump to get in there”

-You could apply this to a lot of PvP as well. If I go roaming around picking off other randoms roaming around, in the vast majority of cases they weren’t threatening any objectives and it doesn’t do anything whatsoever for or against capping/defending. But I don’t care, I like surface roaming and sometimes I feel like adding PvP to it; on the other hand I don’t like puzzles and sometimes I feel like adding PvP to those too. In some ways the latter is even more useful, since…

-It does have an objective. The puzzles, on the rare occasion I can stand them long enough to finish, are a great source of siege gear, which you’ll notice is useless to anyone who just goes there and returns to PvE immediately after. Certainly far better than spending 1g or wasting badges I’d have used on alternate armour to buy something as niche and shortlived (in actual use, rather than the time sitting between uses) as an unrepairable door-smacking suit of boredom. Even badges themselves contribute if that’s what you use them for… but personally I think it’s highly overrated as a source of badges, unless of course enough people show up that it’s no longer PvP-less.

Also, the fact that people have to take falling damage to enter the BL puzzles isn’t necessarily without its upsides… if you actually drew enough attention in one of these things, you could easily occupy (and deny puzzle siege to) a larger # of enemies than it would take from your own team.

All to many times have we lacked players in WvW. Upto crazy levels that we were outmanned, but not realy because there was a blob of people in the Jumping Puzzle.

I’d much rather these people, even if begrudgingly, contributed to WvW then just take up space in a Jumping Puzzle to get the same rewards.
Because thats the point here. It doesnt matter if they like it or not, they have to contribute or their badge farm will be abysmal.