(edited by Semris.7520)
Change Hunter´s shot the way it was...
OP is perhaps a little overly emotional, but in general I agree;
Anet, please don’t fix what ain’t broken. The Ranger’s other problems like traits are waaay more in need of a fix.
Learn how to use it… it gives u great advantages if used right! Why can’t rangers be stealthy… like “hiding in nature…” sort of:) I Think the change is good. We still have vulnerability, but just not on that skill.
Kima & Co
No. New hunter shot is more interresting than the previous “does 10 of this so it has to be included in rotation just because”-skill. I myself have trouble breaking my old rotation, but I accept that I need to retrain my muscle memory. Now, if we talk about rapid fire…now there’s an uninterresting skill that might need some change.
~This is the internet, my (or your) opinion doesn’t matter~
The dmg output hardly changed(still 10 stacks of vul), but now you can combine the Hunter shot with Remorless Grandmaster trait(and Quick Draw) for additional 5vul every 10 seconds. Seems pretty kitten nice.
Rangers should get no stealth at all, its the thiefs main feature and should stay so..
What comes next ? Warriors getting stealth too? This is ridiculous
Hunters Shot could have been improved with somethign different than stealth alot more
Usable every 12 seconds, meaning beasically they can use every 9 seconds stealth now.
With the trait that reduces bow skilk recharges by 20%, the cooldown gets to 9,6 seconds leading to stealth every basically 6 seconds !! and that from ranged position !!
A thief instead always has to be in melee combat for situational stealth via weapon skills, except by using utility skills.
Thiefs should be the most superior stealth class and this change imo takes away massively their superiorness about this skill mechanics.
This is how Hunters Shot should work:
Damage: 200
Range: 1500 (1800 when traited)
Combo Finisher
The next 3 Pet Attacks deal 50% more Damage on the target that got hit by Hunters Shot and those attacks deal each to the target 1 Stack of Torment for 10 seconds.
If this Attack hits a Target, that suffers on torment, then your attack will have 10% higher Crit Chance and your pet gains Swiftness for 10 seconds
You can add a maximum of 10% Damage, if you hold down the Skill Button for up to 3 seconds, before firing the shot
Recharge: 15 seconds
Personally I like the idea behind sub classes ~ quoted from Chris Whiteside
(edited by Orpheal.8263)
Learn how to use it… it gives u great advantages if used right! Why can’t rangers be stealthy… like “hiding in nature…” sort of:) I Think the change is good. We still have vulnerability, but just not on that skill.
Two things…
1. “Learn how to use it.” How is a PvE longbow ranger supposed to benefit from stealth when attacking from long range?
2. Why does stealth have to come at the expense of one of the longbow’s few offensive skills? Why couldn’t they have added a stealth utility skill whenever they get around to adding new skills (by the end of the year, according to the recent blog)?
This change was made by robbing Peter to pay Paul, and the WvW/PvP players are obviously Paul; so of course they “think the change is good”. As a PvE player, I HATE the change.
The dmg output hardly changed(still 10 stacks of vul), but now you can combine the Hunter shot with Remorless Grandmaster trait(and Quick Draw) for additional 5vul every 10 seconds. Seems pretty kitten nice.
1. 10 stacks at once (old version of HS) and 10 stacks applied one at a time (new version of RF) are NOT the same thing. Before, we could pop HS then RF, letting all 10 shots from RF get the full 10% damage boost. Now your first shot from RF gets no damage boost, your second gets a 1% damage boost, your third gets a 2% damage boost, etc. The damage output has changed.
2. So you’re going to take Remorseless over Piercing Arrows? Eagle Eye? Spotter? Steady Focus? Which of these traits are you going to dump for 5 stacks of vulnerability every 10 seconds?
Rangers should get no stealth at all, its the thiefs main feature and should stay so..
What comes next ? Warriors getting stealth too? This is ridiculous
Hunters Shot could have been improved with somethign different than stealth alot more
Usable every 12 seconds, meaning beasically they can use every 9 seconds stealth now.
With the trait that reduces bow skilk recharges by 20%, the cooldown gets to 9,6 seconds leading to stealth every basically 6 seconds !! and that from ranged position !!
A thief instead always has to be in melee combat for situational stealth via weapon skills, except by using utility skills.Thiefs should be the most superior stealth class and this change imo takes away massively their superiorness about this skill mechanics.
This stealth doesn’t even begin to touch the affinity to stealth Thieves have. Anyways, Engineers, Rangers, and Mesmers already have access to limited stealth. And there aren’t really any mechanics that any classes monopolize, just ones that some classes excel at. Fear/torment are Necromancer conditions, but Warriors/Thieves have longer, higher cooldown fears, and thieves, mesmers, and warriors have access to torment.
Thieves have stealth skills with no cooldowns, stealth skills that require no target, stealth skills that give 15 second of stealth to up to 5 allies. Rangers have a single stealth skill that requires a target. Doesn’t seem to be encroaching on thieves territory much, especially when you realize that they can’t use it effectively for running away, since their pets are going to leash after 2000 range regardless.
Genesis Theory [GT] (HoD)
Glad I’m not the only one angry at this change. I play ranger as my 2nd fav class and I find this skill change utterly useless in PvE.
Although It doesn’t add insane damage, It was nice to use it before rapid fire or right before I switch back to short bow and nail the enemy with zephyr.
It might be good for PvP/WvW but for PvE it’s useless. Now if they ever split the skills like in GW1, some skills could avoid unnecessary nerfs.
Learn how to use it… it gives u great advantages if used right! Why can’t rangers be stealthy… like “hiding in nature…” sort of:) I Think the change is good. We still have vulnerability, but just not on that skill.
Two things…
1. “Learn how to use it.” How is a PvE longbow ranger supposed to benefit from stealth when attacking from long range?
2. Why does stealth have to come at the expense of one of the longbow’s few offensive skills? Why couldn’t they have added a stealth utility skill whenever they get around to adding new skills (by the end of the year, according to the recent blog)?
1. If you get agro and want the agro on your pet so you can max range, use hunters shot. When you want to run by stuff or escape a fight, stealth is nice. It also grants swiftness to your pet so you can use it to get melee pets on targets faster, again without risking drawing agro.
2. Longbows skills were all offensive. Now you have one that can be offensive or defensive depending on how you use it. The one that was removed wasn’t really removed, just consolidated into another skill.
The dmg output hardly changed(still 10 stacks of vul), but now you can combine the Hunter shot with Remorless Grandmaster trait(and Quick Draw) for additional 5vul every 10 seconds. Seems pretty kitten nice.
1. 10 stacks at once (old version of HS) and 10 stacks applied one at a time (new version of RF) are NOT the same thing. Before, we could pop HS then RF, letting all 10 shots from RF get the full 10% damage boost. Now your first shot from RF gets no damage boost, your second gets a 1% damage boost, your third gets a 2% damage boost, etc. The damage output has changed.
2. So you’re going to take Remorseless over Piercing Arrows? Eagle Eye? Spotter? Steady Focus? Which of these traits are you going to dump for 5 stacks of vulnerability every 10 seconds?
1. kozeljko acknowledged that the damage output has changed. The change is negligible.
2. The reason there are so many traits is not so we can all decide on seven that everyone must run at all times. It’s so we have tools to create builds to fit our style.
I’d reply to Orpheal too but Da Sonic already addressed that.
It reduced the overall damage from Longbow, unless you’re rocking 30 in Marksman and chose Remorseless over, say Eagle Eye, Piercing Arrows or Spotter, which until the update would be a fool’s choice.
Having said that, I can see the appeal in wvwvw. Dropping all aggro, even for 3 seconds, and repositioning is huge. In PvE, it’s utterly useless. This sentence, btw, answers every question of why in this game. If the question is Why, the answer is PvP.
I would have much preferred to see Hunter’s Shot add be an immobilise + pet speed buff.
Rangers should get no stealth at all, its the thiefs main feature and should stay so..
What comes next ? Warriors getting stealth too? This is ridiculous
Hunters Shot could have been improved with somethign different than stealth alot more
Usable every 12 seconds, meaning beasically they can use every 9 seconds stealth now.
With the trait that reduces bow skilk recharges by 20%, the cooldown gets to 9,6 seconds leading to stealth every basically 6 seconds !! and that from ranged position !!
A thief instead always has to be in melee combat for situational stealth via weapon skills, except by using utility skills.Thiefs should be the most superior stealth class and this change imo takes away massively their superiorness about this skill mechanics.
This is how Hunters Shot should work:
Damage: 200
Range: 1500 (1800 when traited)
Combo Finisher
The next 3 Pet Attacks deal 50% more Damage on the target that got hit by Hunters Shot and those attacks deal each to the target 1 Stack of Torment for 10 seconds.
If this Attack hits a Target, that suffers on torment, then your attack will have 10% higher Crit Chance and your pet gains Swiftness for 10 seconds
You can add a maximum of 10% Damage, if you hold down the Skill Button for up to 3 seconds, before firing the shot
Recharge: 15 seconds
You math on the stealth CD is just awful
I can’t stand that it causes you to stop attacking… it’s a small peeve for sure, but I hate constantly having to re-click my autoattack after using it.
Also, while in PvE I have found that even if I go stealth… the mob that was previously hitting me instead of my pet… STILL attacks me. It’s useless! Please change it back to the way it was or switch it to an immobilize as someone above suggested.
Rangers should get no stealth at all, its the thiefs main feature and should stay so..
What comes next ? Warriors getting stealth too? This is ridiculous
Hunters Shot could have been improved with somethign different than stealth alot more
Usable every 12 seconds, meaning beasically they can use every 9 seconds stealth now.
With the trait that reduces bow skilk recharges by 20%, the cooldown gets to 9,6 seconds leading to stealth every basically 6 seconds !! and that from ranged position !!
A thief instead always has to be in melee combat for situational stealth via weapon skills, except by using utility skills.Thiefs should be the most superior stealth class and this change imo takes away massively their superiorness about this skill mechanics.
This is how Hunters Shot should work:
Damage: 200
Range: 1500 (1800 when traited)
Combo Finisher
The next 3 Pet Attacks deal 50% more Damage on the target that got hit by Hunters Shot and those attacks deal each to the target 1 Stack of Torment for 10 seconds.
If this Attack hits a Target, that suffers on torment, then your attack will have 10% higher Crit Chance and your pet gains Swiftness for 10 seconds
You can add a maximum of 10% Damage, if you hold down the Skill Button for up to 3 seconds, before firing the shot
Recharge: 15 secondsYou math on the stealth CD is just awful
Yeah sure…
I think you are unable to do math at all…
20% of 12 seconds are 2,4 Seconds.
Means if a Skill has a CD of 12 Seconds, its CD will get reduced by such a trait down to 9,6 seconds.
If a Skill has 3 seconds duration of stealth, then these 3 seconds of stealth also work, while the skill is already recharging!!.
So 3 seconds of 9,6 seconds CD are covered before you can use the skill again to get another 3 seconds of stealth again.
9,6 – 3 = 6,6 …
Ok, I’ve written 6 seconds, I rounded down, one could complain here, that I didn’t rounded up to 7 seconds …
However, all this little math here changes nothing on the poiunt, that it starts to become ridiculous, if Anet begins now to more more anfd more of the classes key elements upon all other classes, regardless of how small or big the changes are compared to the original key mechanism of class X.
For me is a key mechanism a key mechanism, that makes a class unique.
That being said, I’m also the opinion that anet should remove from other classes specific skills that give them acces to certain features, that are normally key elements of other classes.
Example: Thiefs shouldn’t be able to steal skulls that can fear enemies.
Warriors should have no shout, that can fear enemies.
Fear is Necromancer only feature.
Same goes for Confusion, it should be a Mesmer only feature as it has been called so…
Same like Adrenaline and Initiative are also only Warrior/Thief specific key elements.
How can a class feel/work like being unique, if every crap and their mothers get later also all the same stuff added as new skills/traits, takign away the factor of the skill7ability being unique at all to class X.
ANet said they want to make every classes gameplay feel unique and different.
A class gameplay doesn’t feel very unique and different, if they copy too much feature of specific clases onto other classes.
Such things just simply water and dumb down the whole class system slowly into a big mishmash what has been already GW1’s dual class system and class specific elements become totally pointless at all !!
Personally I like the idea behind sub classes ~ quoted from Chris Whiteside
Rangers should get no stealth at all, its the thiefs main feature and should stay so..
No. That would be initiative. Thieves have a lot of access to stealth, but it is not their unique class ability.
initiative is just a part of the whole .. I see it in a bigger picture in regard of the whole class concept, not only small pieces of the whole thing.
Thiefs as a gameplay concept are known for being the masters of shadows using stealth for their advantage. I think more outside of the box, when it comes to stealth and in overall any class specific features that define a class and its gameplay design.
But the same problem has also sadly Shadow Stepping, as anet gave several classes basically instant teleport skills, what annoys me too and whats one of the reasons, why thiefs feel so extremly slow compared to the other classes, where agility should be the thing where thiefs should be superior compared to the other classes as it is one of their key elements that define their gameplay design and that not just in GW2, but basically every MMORPG that I know are thiefs known for beign the fastest class in regard of movement, attacks and the like..
But here in GW2 a silly warrior in heavy armor can easily be faster than any thief and that simply disturbs me and my personal envision of how a thief should work and what I’d like to see getting changed in GW2 that thiefs truly become the fastest class in the game in every aspect of the gameplay mechanics, because thats basically the thing with that they counter for their massive lack in maximum health and defense compared to other classes normaly and what makes the thief class normally harder to play/master, than other classes.
With superior agility don’t misunderstand me please, i surely don#t want to see thiefs flashing around battlefields from 1 eemy to another like a lightning bolt beign unable to react on them, but i just want to see some kind of clear difference between thiefs and warriors, when it comes to terms of movement and attack speed.
somethign running around in heavy armors should never be faster, than something running arounnd in much lighter and comfortable leather armors.
Thats just my point of view.
PS. and i think it should be possible to find a good class balance also too with thiefs feeling as being the fastest to play class. If other older games can reach this feeling of having fast paced thiefs, GW2 should be able to get to that point too.
Personally I like the idea behind sub classes ~ quoted from Chris Whiteside
(edited by Orpheal.8263)
As a PvE player, I HATE the change.
As a PvE player, you shouldn’t be sitting in longbow on Ranger all that often anyway. There are very few things in the game that require you to be at range, and for anything that doesn’t you should be using a melee weapon, Sword/warhorn or Sword/axe in Ranger’s case.
Longbow has its best use in WvW. That is clearly the situation where the weapon shines the most. Moving the vulnerability to the 2 skill and giving us a skill that gives stealth makes it even better for WvW. This change was a buff for Rangers in WvW, and shouldn’t really effect Rangers in PvE.
Blackgate ~~[Ons]laught~~
where we come to the point, that anet should start balancing the game more by making different condition effects, skill effects,trait effecst ect. for the gameplay modes of PvE/Spvp and WvW as all 3 of them totalyl require different things to achieve the goal to be “balanced” at all wherears WvW will never be totally balanced at all as there simple exists the rule of quantity beats quality so far.
Personally I like the idea behind sub classes ~ quoted from Chris Whiteside
The problem with specific skills and their changes is, that the whole skill system in GW2 is too limited – you don’t have another choice than accepting the weaponskills the way they are – and that is the problem! Often a change doesn’t fit to the playstyle of people while for others it does…so there will always be 2 sides.
My biggest wish for the skill system is that ArenaNet adds new skills for every weapon, so that you could have some different skill-choices for every slot. Why? To satisfy all playstyles and to make the skill system more interesting.
In the future, please refrain for such drastic changes to weapon skills. Tweak them, don’t overhaul. Play with the numbers until you get it right, don’t fundamentally chance the way a weapon skill works.
Let’s summerize: this change is bad for rangers that attack with longbow from >1200 range exclusively. Rangers with more versatile play style profit from the change. So, we can assume that ArenaNet made this change to encourage more versatile play style. Makes sense to me.
Well,
My main character was a thief before clusterbomb shortbow range nerf, and my first alt was a shortbow ranger, sb range nerf. So following the mass advice I was given. Learn to play it, adapt, overcome and to bad.
So now I play a warrior, I adapted alright, retired my thief and ranger. So good luck getting them to change it back.