Guild Wars 2

Ashariel.8490:

On a final note, a lot of people will read this thread and feel this request is trivial and not worth the time, they might even object to having skimpy armors in the game

Indeed sums this whole “discussion” up pretty well, IMHO.

I could care less which dangly bits are visible or not, but this game has much bigger fish to fry and clipping errors to kill.

Urthona.3198:

If the wearer holds completely still. Even the game’s physics acknowledge breast movement. With that amount of support, or lack thereof, there will be lots of edges and pointy bits digging into her flesh when she moves at a brisk walk. I don’t even want to think of what might happen during a dodge roll.

You’re grasping at straws. If you want realism, then Human female characters shouldn’t be allowed to wear heavy armor and fight in melee in the first place, since they’re physically unsuited. Or, maybe, Anet should cut our damage in half?

kitteno.8103:

You’re grasping at straws. If you want realism, then Human female characters shouldn’t be allowed to wear heavy armor and fight in melee in the first place, since they’re physically unsuited. Or, maybe, Anet should cut our damage in half?

Again, bring on the spiked codpiece and I’ll be fine with the bikini from hell. Something tells me that most (not all, but most) of the people who want the change reverted wouldn’t take to the other alteration so readily.

Feni.4306:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

if its so minor then why does it really matter? you want to see half of one of your characters breast and have them wear no underwear? i think you may be playing the wrong game…

Dodging the argument and going for personal attacks, how very cliche. Fortunately you don’t get to decide what’s minor and what isn’t for those that are bothered by the change. And that’s exactly what it comes down to, it’s a CHANGE.

I’m not sitting here complaining about TA’s heavy not being revealing enough, I’m upset that an already implemented design was changed to satisfy some whiners. In the end all I’m doing is whining too, but apparently that’s enough to get graphical changes to armor.

i misread the OP; i thought it stated that it was minor not that others may think its minor – i had a migrane when i read it
but yeh; i do think its minor; its still unsuitably ‘skimpy’ imo, but atleast it was a step in the right direction

also; dodging the arguement would be not replying at all, and ‘personal attack’?

The problem with skimpy armor on female characters isn’t that it’s unrealistic.
The problem is that it’s not equal.
While the male gets covering, unsexualized armor, the female gets skimpy sexualized armor. This sends the message that females don’t matter as much, and are only there for sex.
I think it’s fine for females to have skimpy armor, as long as the male counterpart is ALSO skimpy. So in this case, I disagree unless they sex up the male armor too.

People using the “making sense” argument doesnt……..make sense. If light Hooker armor is available, and lets call it what it is, then the same revealing aspects should be made available for the medium and heavy sets. Lets not be prude. Magic provides the protection, the armor is simply imbued with it, it doesnt matter how much is….there.

A simple fix for players not wishing to see more revealing armor of others could be done with a button click in the options panel or partental control panel, letting those that want their skimpy skins left alone.

I mean really, how hard would it be to place that floating black square for people not wanting to see skin, an option in their menu? That last line was a joke btw.

kitteno.8103:

Urthona.3198:

If the wearer holds completely still. Even the game’s physics acknowledge breast movement. With that amount of support, or lack thereof, there will be lots of edges and pointy bits digging into her flesh when she moves at a brisk walk. I don’t even want to think of what might happen during a dodge roll.

You’re grasping at straws. If you want realism, then Human female characters shouldn’t be allowed to wear heavy armor and fight in melee in the first place, since they’re physically unsuited. Or, maybe, Anet should cut our damage in half?

physically unsuited to fight?? are you serious?

would you care to tell that to hundreds of thousands of military women around the globe?

the NERVE!

and coming from a military background myself and sprouting two breasts i cringe at the thought of a metal hand digging into my flesh while i’m trying to disable the opponent or dodge the incoming blow….
..oh the horror.

and again – the argument about sexism is valid here. women should not be objectified, not even in video games. putting male characters in full-body armor whilst leaving female counterparts shivering in the cold with all bits sticking out is so blatantly misogynistic it’s beyond words.
if you wish to play a game like that – there’s Tera. i do not wish for GW2 to go that way. there are already a number of female gear sets that have threaded and passed that fine sexist line….. mesmer “introduction” set sprouds to mind the garnet one with puffy skirt…caster starter set for all light armor professions with corset and mini skirt….that weird light armor set with 2 strategically placed holes in the back of a skirt to bring a rare-view to a player and show off character’s underwear (honestly, who thought this was a good idea?)

enough is enough i say

Twill.6217:

kitteno.8103:

Urthona.3198:

If the wearer holds completely still. Even the game’s physics acknowledge breast movement. With that amount of support, or lack thereof, there will be lots of edges and pointy bits digging into her flesh when she moves at a brisk walk. I don’t even want to think of what might happen during a dodge roll.

You’re grasping at straws. If you want realism, then Human female characters shouldn’t be allowed to wear heavy armor and fight in melee in the first place, since they’re physically unsuited. Or, maybe, Anet should cut our damage in half?

physically unsuited to fight?? are you serious?

would you care to tell that to hundreds of thousands of military women around the globe?

the NERVE!

and coming from a military background myself and sprouting two breasts i cringe at the thought of a metal hand digging into my flesh while i’m trying to disable the opponent or dodge the incoming blow….
..oh the horror.

and again – the argument about sexism is valid here. women should not be objectified, not even in video games. putting male characters in full-body armor whilst leaving female counterparts shivering in the cold with all bits sticking out is so blatantly misogynistic it’s beyond words.
if you wish to play a game like that – there’s Tera. i do not wish for GW2 to go that way. there are already a number of female gear sets that have threaded and passed that fine sexist line….. mesmer “introduction” set sprouds to mind the garnet one with puffy skirt…caster starter set for all light armor professions with corset and mini skirt….that weird light armor set with 2 strategically placed holes in the back of a skirt to bring a rare-view to a player and show off character’s underwear (honestly, who thought this was a good idea?)

enough is enough i say

If this were a talk show you’d be getting a standing ovation from the female audience. That however doesn’t make you right. Belonging to the military has absolutely nothing to do with the difference between a man and a woman when it comes to physical ability. Are you really gonna sit here and tell me that women would be able to swing around hammers and move just as well as men inside the plated karma armor viewed here http://www.gw2armorgallery.com/human-heavy.htm#standard?

Also do you even know who designed the armor in gw2? For all you know it could be a bunch of women. I have a few female friends who happen to really like the “misogynistic” armor you are referring to, what does that make them?

Weindrasi.3805:

The problem with skimpy armor on female characters isn’t that it’s unrealistic.
The problem is that it’s not equal.
While the male gets covering, unsexualized armor, the female gets skimpy sexualized armor. This sends the message that females don’t matter as much, and are only there for sex.
I think it’s fine for females to have skimpy armor, as long as the male counterpart is ALSO skimpy. So in this case, I disagree unless they sex up the male armor too.

I’d be perfectly fine with more revealing male armor sets. In fact, one of the reasons I never pick male characters in games is because of the boring full body tin cans they have to wear. At least the female characters get some somewhat sexy armor designs….even though they devs in most games end up caving to the potato sack whiners. I’d love to see male sets with half chest pieces or some skin revealed on legs or mid sections. I’ll have to admit that I’m not ready to see male characters running around in g-strings or enlarged crotch pieces though lol.

Feni.4306:

Twill.6217:

kitteno.8103:

Urthona.3198:

If the wearer holds completely still. Even the game’s physics acknowledge breast movement. With that amount of support, or lack thereof, there will be lots of edges and pointy bits digging into her flesh when she moves at a brisk walk. I don’t even want to think of what might happen during a dodge roll.

You’re grasping at straws. If you want realism, then Human female characters shouldn’t be allowed to wear heavy armor and fight in melee in the first place, since they’re physically unsuited. Or, maybe, Anet should cut our damage in half?

physically unsuited to fight?? are you serious?

would you care to tell that to hundreds of thousands of military women around the globe?

the NERVE!

and coming from a military background myself and sprouting two breasts i cringe at the thought of a metal hand digging into my flesh while i’m trying to disable the opponent or dodge the incoming blow….
..oh the horror.

and again – the argument about sexism is valid here. women should not be objectified, not even in video games. putting male characters in full-body armor whilst leaving female counterparts shivering in the cold with all bits sticking out is so blatantly misogynistic it’s beyond words.
if you wish to play a game like that – there’s Tera. i do not wish for GW2 to go that way. there are already a number of female gear sets that have threaded and passed that fine sexist line….. mesmer “introduction” set sprouds to mind the garnet one with puffy skirt…caster starter set for all light armor professions with corset and mini skirt….that weird light armor set with 2 strategically placed holes in the back of a skirt to bring a rare-view to a player and show off character’s underwear (honestly, who thought this was a good idea?)

enough is enough i say

If this were a talk show you’d be getting a standing ovation from the female audience. That however doesn’t make you right. Belonging to the military has absolutely nothing to do with the difference between a man and a woman when it comes to physical ability. Are you really gonna sit here and tell me that women would be able to swing around hammers and move just as well as men inside the plated karma armor viewed here http://www.gw2armorgallery.com/human-heavy.htm#standard?

Also do you even know who designed the armor in gw2? For all you know it could be a bunch of women. I have a few female friends who happen to really like the “misogynistic” armor you are referring to, what does that make them?

you DO realise that not every woman is built like a toothpick, just like not every man is a meatshield, right? there ARE real women out there who are built like norn with a great upper-body strength. please stop making yourself look stupid and sexist.

as for the armor – it’s not the skimpiness-per-say that makes it misogynistic, it’s the perceived divide between what’s male and female. when males are dressed to ensure power/protection/intimidation in their attire, whilst women are dressed to only ensure the male gaze falls onto all the “right” places, THEN it becomes misogynistic.

if male versions of the said armor were exactly just as skimpy/sexy/revealing then i would probably just shrug it off and not give a kitten about the whole thing.

but that isn’t the case at all!

gaming community, and as you have showed it – society at large – IS extremely sexist. there’s no reason to deny it.

hmm, heavy armor supposed to cover and protect the body…

half boob, belly, and thighs completely uncovered contradict the meaning of heavy armor.

Twill.6217:

physically unsuited to fight?? are you serious?

would you care to tell that to hundreds of thousands of military women around the globe?

the NERVE!

Who cares about your “military women”? We’re talking about medieval/steampunk fantasy, where heroes are expected to wear heavy metal armor (the one we discussing) and swing greatswords.
Just as reality, GW universe have gender distinction as well, where females tend to use bows, daggers and magic and males tend to use swords.
Most obvious examples are Destiny’s Edge (Zojja Elementalist, Rythlock Warrior, Logan Guardian, Eir Ranger, Caithe Thief), Human Seraph (female Seraph usually use bows), Charr forces, including Flame Legion, and even Norns. Sons of Svanir clearly state that females are too weak to have them in their ranks.

Twill.6217:

and again – the argument about sexism is valid here. women should not be objectified, not even in video games. putting male characters in full-body armor whilst leaving female counterparts shivering in the cold with all bits sticking out is so blatantly misogynistic it’s beyond words.

I never hear that guys are displeased with sexist approach to their gender, which is expected to fight and die and is always portrayed as bulk and manly in videogames.

Logan is a great example. He throws away his friends and his life to save a female. He lives to protect a female. Sexist? Sure. But no one is mad that Logan is fighting instead of baking cookies or nursing a child.

If you want to be a guy with breasts, why not simply start playing male character? A lot of guys are playing as females and they’re not insecure about it.

Before you strip down female armors even more I vote for revealing male armors. It doesn’t have to look kittenty but more sexy imo. Having 1 arm or no arm on 1 boob won’t change anything. Why is this so important anyways?

CharrGirl.7896:

Before you strip down female armors even more I vote for revealing male armors. It doesn’t have to look kittenty but more sexy imo. Having 1 arm or no arm on 1 boob won’t change anything. Why is this so important anyways?

Because the only real progression in this game is aesthetics.

Twill.6217:

you DO realise that not every woman is built like a toothpick, just like not every man is a meatshield, right? there ARE real women out there who are built like norn with a great upper-body strength. please stop making yourself look stupid and sexist.

as for the armor – it’s not the skimpiness-per-say that makes it misogynistic, it’s the perceived divide between what’s male and female. when males are dressed to ensure power/protection/intimidation in their attire, whilst women are dressed to only ensure the male gaze falls onto all the “right” places, THEN it becomes misogynistic.

if male versions of the said armor were exactly just as skimpy/sexy/revealing then i would probably just shrug it off and not give a kitten about the whole thing.

but that isn’t the case at all!

gaming community, and as you have showed it – society at large – IS extremely sexist. there’s no reason to deny it.

It’s been scientifically proven time and time again that men are naturally stronger than women. I love how this somehow makes me sexist in your eyes. To begin with you aren’t even replying to my argument, mine was about genetics and you retorted with some nonsense about how some women work out while some men don’t at all. There are plenty of women who could beat the life out of me, that still has nothing to do with what I said.

I can already tell you’re a radical so this is the last time I’ll respond to you. I’ll lay one last example on you. You’re saying the boob claw and frilly clothes could be overlooked by you if men also had such revealing clothing, and then in the same breath you go on about how the gaming community is sexist and SOCIETY is as well. See where I’m going with this? If men also had revealing clothes leveling the playing field, then you would have never even considered calling the gaming community sexist. It’s honestly amazing how little it takes for you to put down the entire male gaming community.

If possible could you go quell your anger somewhere else? Take up a sport as a hobby, maybe MMA. Build up that female strength you’re so proud of so you can destroy me and somehow prove that I was wrong in everything by doing so.

Urthona.3198:

If the wearer holds completely still. Even the game’s physics acknowledge breast movement. With that amount of support, or lack thereof, there will be lots of edges and pointy bits digging into her flesh when she moves at a brisk walk. I don’t even want to think of what might happen during a dodge roll.

Or maybe the claw is just painted on a solid piece of transparent material :p

I too prefer the beta version of this armour. I would also like to see some more (sexy) non-skirt leggings for heavy and light armour wearers.

I believe that eye candy should be provided for both sexes and I am always up for more options. But here are some facts to help people get things into perspective, as this topic seems to be getting a little too serious and aggressive:

Sex sells (I think it has something to do with 99% of people loving it so much).
The majority of computer game players are male (sorry ladies, but it’s true).
The majority of males prefer to look at women rather than men and visa versa.
It’s just a game, nothing in it is REAL.
Guild Wars 2 is set in a fantasy world, with magic and dragons (which I’m pretty sure are not real), yet the realismists do not seem to complain about that.
We have the internet.

Any serious discussion about this topic is rather silly tbh. Request an armour change by all means, but do we really need to insult each other and have a discussion about sexism?!

i agree. i hadn’t even realized that they changed it. i was looking through heavy armor images on the wiki to kinda piece together what i may want, and now i dont want to go for that. it does look more boring.

Feni.4306

It’s been scientifically proven time and time again that men are naturally stronger than women. I love how this somehow makes me sexist in your eyes. To begin with you aren’t even replying to my argument, mine was about genetics and you retorted with some nonsense about how some women work out while some men don’t at all. There are plenty of women who could beat the life out of me, that still has nothing to do with what I said.

I can already tell you’re a radical so this is the last time I’ll respond to you. I’ll lay one last example on you. You’re saying the boob claw and frilly clothes could be overlooked by you if men also had such revealing clothing, and then in the same breath you go on about how the gaming community is sexist and SOCIETY is as well. See where I’m going with this? If men also had revealing clothes leveling the playing field, then you would have never even considered calling the gaming community sexist. It’s honestly amazing how little it takes for you to put down the entire male gaming community.

If possible could you go quell your anger somewhere else? Take up a sport as a hobby, maybe MMA. Build up that female strength you’re so proud of so you can destroy me and somehow prove that I was wrong in everything by doing so.

Feni, the one who is being radical and rediculous is YOU. Your statements are borderline sexist, and now that you’ve been backed into a corner, you’re trying to cover up your flawed argument by using biology which you know very little about. You are also trying to portray the other person as being illogical, by putting words in their mouth.

No one is arguing against the fact that men are stronger then women. Never ONCE was that said. The area where your argument slips into sexism is where you suggest that women are unfit to fight. Could a woman build her strength enough to fight in heavy armor with a metal weapon? Yes she could. Could a woman run across rough terrain for many miles in heavy gear? Yes she could. Obviously, she’s not going to gain the physical strength of a male two feet taller then she, and twice her weight—but she doesn’t have to. The physical abilities required of a fighter are within the reach of both females and males.

As for the rest of your argument, it slips into angry ranting and childish insults, so it doesn’t merit reply.

Rin.1046:

Sex sells (I think it has something to do with 99% of people loving it so much).
The majority of computer game players are male (sorry ladies, but it’s true).
The majority of males prefer to look at women rather than men and visa versa.
It’s just a game, nothing in it is REAL.
Guild Wars 2 is set in a fantasy world, with magic and dragons (which I’m pretty sure are not real), yet the realismists do not seem to complain about that.
We have the internet.

My only argument against this is that guys can get eye candy, and sex can sell so to speak, without the women being degraded. It would take a little more creativity on the part of the game developers, to design sexy content without the women being lowered to pleasure objects… but heck, if they’ve imagined an entire fantasy world, it ought not to be too difficult.
Although it’s just a game, issues such as portrayal of women do matter in real life. The games we play reflect the society we live in. Unfortunatley, in real life, a woman’s worth is often based on how she looks, and sexual violence against women is common. If the media we view (such as games) starts portraying women in a sex-positive, equal light—that could have a very positive impact on real life society.

I want a separate codpiece slot armor slot now…

Weindrasi.3805:

My only argument against this is that guys can get eye candy, and sex can sell so to speak, without the women being degraded. It would take a little more creativity on the part of the game developers, to design sexy content without the women being lowered to pleasure objects… but heck, if they’ve imagined an entire fantasy world, it ought not to be too difficult.
Although it’s just a game, issues such as portrayal of women do matter in real life. The games we play reflect the society we live in. Unfortunatley, in real life, a woman’s worth is often based on how she looks, and sexual violence against women is common. If the media we view (such as games) starts portraying women in a sex-positive, equal light—that could have a very positive impact on real life society.

I guess simplifying the facts does create a certain amount of misunderstanding, so I apologise for that. I will amend the two points you mentioned to clarify what I meant:

Sex sells (if done right), so trying to stop a company from using it is pointless.

It is just a game (done tastefully) and nothing in it is real, so getting angry about it and insulting each other is just plain daft. If the game portrayed sexual violence or made women out to be sex objects, then I would understand people getting up in arms. But it doesn’t, so lets move on with the topic at hand shall we?

As to media reflecting/impacting social behaviour, I do not agree with you completely on this. I do agree that it reflects certain aspects of our society, but I do not agree that it impacts upon it in a major way. The biggest impact media has towards these issues is by means of highlighting them. That is not to say media cannot have a negative impact on society, it can, but it would take quite the campaign in order to do this.

Media is not the main trouble maker here, people are. Watching a graphic movie about a woman being abused will not make hundreds of men go out and assault women, same as graphic horror movies/games do not make killers out of us. If anything they can make many feel uncomfortable. The people that do these things do them because they are damaged, because they have a psychological problem of some kind. I’m not making excusses, I’m just stating fact. A human being is not born with the intent to kill or harm others, these things are developed through powerful experiences or through physical defects in their brain. Media may effect these people in a much stronger way than ‘normal’ people, but that is not the fault of the media.

So, while I completely agree with you that the sexes should be portrayed in a sex-positive equal light way, I do not agree it would improve our society much. That’s not to say it won’t impact it at all, I just feel the impact will be very minor, almost unnoticeable.

Anyway, I think this thread has derailed enough as it is, so I’ll stop there.

i’d like the original armor piece back please.

-a dead hand groping my girls boob is epic-

I definitely support the beta model; I had no idea it ever looked that aesthetically pleasing. Ever since I have gotten this armor for my Guardian, my guildmates (correctly) say that I am wearing a diaper because of how ridiculous it looks. I doubt it’ll ever change, but it does look far inferior to how it used to.

I also support there being more skimpy male armor too, for what it’s worth. Love the gladiator stuff with abs hanging out. There are so many options for both genders, skimpy, and modest that I don’t think there’s any issue. If you wanted modest for female, you wouldn’t pick Arah armor in its current state, you’d pick any of the dozens of modest heavy sets. So why the unwarranted censorship? I totally agree with the OP.

can we get a dev or moderator to shed some light on this? is this even something that is up for debate?

Weindrasi.3805:

Feni.4306

It’s been scientifically proven time and time again that men are naturally stronger than women. I love how this somehow makes me sexist in your eyes. To begin with you aren’t even replying to my argument, mine was about genetics and you retorted with some nonsense about how some women work out while some men don’t at all. There are plenty of women who could beat the life out of me, that still has nothing to do with what I said.

I can already tell you’re a radical so this is the last time I’ll respond to you. I’ll lay one last example on you. You’re saying the boob claw and frilly clothes could be overlooked by you if men also had such revealing clothing, and then in the same breath you go on about how the gaming community is sexist and SOCIETY is as well. See where I’m going with this? If men also had revealing clothes leveling the playing field, then you would have never even considered calling the gaming community sexist. It’s honestly amazing how little it takes for you to put down the entire male gaming community.

If possible could you go quell your anger somewhere else? Take up a sport as a hobby, maybe MMA. Build up that female strength you’re so proud of so you can destroy me and somehow prove that I was wrong in everything by doing so.

Feni, the one who is being radical and rediculous is YOU. Your statements are borderline sexist, and now that you’ve been backed into a corner, you’re trying to cover up your flawed argument by using biology which you know very little about. You are also trying to portray the other person as being illogical, by putting words in their mouth.

No one is arguing against the fact that men are stronger then women. Never ONCE was that said. The area where your argument slips into sexism is where you suggest that women are unfit to fight. Could a woman build her strength enough to fight in heavy armor with a metal weapon? Yes she could. Could a woman run across rough terrain for many miles in heavy gear? Yes she could. Obviously, she’s not going to gain the physical strength of a male two feet taller then she, and twice her weight—but she doesn’t have to. The physical abilities required of a fighter are within the reach of both females and males.

As for the rest of your argument, it slips into angry ranting and childish insults, so it doesn’t merit reply.

This reply is nothing but a bunch of heresy with nothing to back it up. “Backed into a corner”, how so? “you’re trying to cover up your flawed argument by using biology which you know very little about”, you begin by calling my argument flawed while not actually pointing out anything that was incorrect, then go on to claim I know nothing about biology while yet again offering nothing to back it up.

The icing on the cake is the 2nd paragraph. I never once claimed women were unfit to fight, if anything I said they could fight. You claim I’m putting words into peoples mouths while in fact you’re the one doing it, or twisting my words for your own purpose. Then you go on a rant about how women can get stronger if they work out? Something I(again) already pointed out and yet for some reason you see this as putting me in my place.

Toss that ending right back at you, all I’m seeing angry ranting.

On another note I just thought about something. If they changed the arah armor…what else did they change? I know that the tribal gear doesn’t exist in pve, they for some reason removed it when the game launched. I really really want it on my norn male too but anet isn’t responding to any questions pertaining that gear. Basically I’m just wondering if anyone knows about any other gear that was changed like arah or removed like tribal armor.

Feni.4306:

Weindrasi.3805:

Feni.4306

It’s been scientifically proven time and time again that men are naturally stronger than women. I love how this somehow makes me sexist in your eyes. To begin with you aren’t even replying to my argument, mine was about genetics and you retorted with some nonsense about how some women work out while some men don’t at all. There are plenty of women who could beat the life out of me, that still has nothing to do with what I said.

I can already tell you’re a radical so this is the last time I’ll respond to you. I’ll lay one last example on you. You’re saying the boob claw and frilly clothes could be overlooked by you if men also had such revealing clothing, and then in the same breath you go on about how the gaming community is sexist and SOCIETY is as well. See where I’m going with this? If men also had revealing clothes leveling the playing field, then you would have never even considered calling the gaming community sexist. It’s honestly amazing how little it takes for you to put down the entire male gaming community.

If possible could you go quell your anger somewhere else? Take up a sport as a hobby, maybe MMA. Build up that female strength you’re so proud of so you can destroy me and somehow prove that I was wrong in everything by doing so.

Feni, the one who is being radical and rediculous is YOU. Your statements are borderline sexist, and now that you’ve been backed into a corner, you’re trying to cover up your flawed argument by using biology which you know very little about. You are also trying to portray the other person as being illogical, by putting words in their mouth.

No one is arguing against the fact that men are stronger then women. Never ONCE was that said. The area where your argument slips into sexism is where you suggest that women are unfit to fight. Could a woman build her strength enough to fight in heavy armor with a metal weapon? Yes she could. Could a woman run across rough terrain for many miles in heavy gear? Yes she could. Obviously, she’s not going to gain the physical strength of a male two feet taller then she, and twice her weight—but she doesn’t have to. The physical abilities required of a fighter are within the reach of both females and males.

As for the rest of your argument, it slips into angry ranting and childish insults, so it doesn’t merit reply.

This reply is nothing but a bunch of heresy with nothing to back it up. “Backed into a corner”, how so? “you’re trying to cover up your flawed argument by using biology which you know very little about”, you begin by calling my argument flawed while not actually pointing out anything that was incorrect, then go on to claim I know nothing about biology while yet again offering nothing to back it up.

The icing on the cake is the 2nd paragraph. I never once claimed women were unfit to fight, if anything I said they could fight. You claim I’m putting words into peoples mouths while in fact you’re the one doing it, or twisting my words for your own purpose. Then you go on a rant about how women can get stronger if they work out? Something I(again) already pointed out and yet for some reason you see this as putting me in my place.

Toss that ending right back at you, all I’m seeing angry ranting.

On another note I just thought about something. If they changed the arah armor…what else did they change? I know that the tribal gear doesn’t exist in pve, they for some reason removed it when the game launched. I really really want it on my norn male too but anet isn’t responding to any questions pertaining that gear. Basically I’m just wondering if anyone knows about any other gear that was changed like arah or removed like tribal armor.

i like how that was the last time you’d respond to him/her. anyhow, can we stay on topic so this doesn’t get trashed and our hopes and dreams of having a dead hand cupping our characters goes up in flames?

Feni.4306:

Weindrasi.3805:

Feni.4306

It’s been scientifically proven time and time again that men are naturally stronger than women. I love how this somehow makes me sexist in your eyes. To begin with you aren’t even replying to my argument, mine was about genetics and you retorted with some nonsense about how some women work out while some men don’t at all. There are plenty of women who could beat the life out of me, that still has nothing to do with what I said.

I can already tell you’re a radical so this is the last time I’ll respond to you. I’ll lay one last example on you. You’re saying the boob claw and frilly clothes could be overlooked by you if men also had such revealing clothing, and then in the same breath you go on about how the gaming community is sexist and SOCIETY is as well. See where I’m going with this? If men also had revealing clothes leveling the playing field, then you would have never even considered calling the gaming community sexist. It’s honestly amazing how little it takes for you to put down the entire male gaming community.

If possible could you go quell your anger somewhere else? Take up a sport as a hobby, maybe MMA. Build up that female strength you’re so proud of so you can destroy me and somehow prove that I was wrong in everything by doing so.

Feni, the one who is being radical and rediculous is YOU. Your statements are borderline sexist, and now that you’ve been backed into a corner, you’re trying to cover up your flawed argument by using biology which you know very little about. You are also trying to portray the other person as being illogical, by putting words in their mouth.

No one is arguing against the fact that men are stronger then women. Never ONCE was that said. The area where your argument slips into sexism is where you suggest that women are unfit to fight. Could a woman build her strength enough to fight in heavy armor with a metal weapon? Yes she could. Could a woman run across rough terrain for many miles in heavy gear? Yes she could. Obviously, she’s not going to gain the physical strength of a male two feet taller then she, and twice her weight—but she doesn’t have to. The physical abilities required of a fighter are within the reach of both females and males.

As for the rest of your argument, it slips into angry ranting and childish insults, so it doesn’t merit reply.

This reply is nothing but a bunch of heresy with nothing to back it up. “Backed into a corner”, how so? “you’re trying to cover up your flawed argument by using biology which you know very little about”, you begin by calling my argument flawed while not actually pointing out anything that was incorrect, then go on to claim I know nothing about biology while yet again offering nothing to back it up.

The icing on the cake is the 2nd paragraph. I never once claimed women were unfit to fight, if anything I said they could fight. You claim I’m putting words into peoples mouths while in fact you’re the one doing it, or twisting my words for your own purpose. Then you go on a rant about how women can get stronger if they work out? Something I(again) already pointed out and yet for some reason you see this as putting me in my place.

Toss that ending right back at you, all I’m seeing angry ranting.

On another note I just thought about something. If they changed the arah armor…what else did they change? I know that the tribal gear doesn’t exist in pve, they for some reason removed it when the game launched. I really really want it on my norn male too but anet isn’t responding to any questions pertaining that gear. Basically I’m just wondering if anyone knows about any other gear that was changed like arah or removed like tribal armor.

first of all, thank you Weindrasi for standing up.

Feni, you DID exactly say that women are unfit to fight. it was the exact quote.
now you’re backing out of your own statements.

you know very little about biology. and when it comes to genetics nothing is written in stone. yes, generally women are “weaker” physically, but it is NOT a rule of thumb.
all women in my family are very physically strong. they don’t work out but they possess strong upper body. it’s genetic.

one of my male friends is scrawny by nature. he tried working out, he tried sitting on a body builder’s diet. nothing works, the muscle just doesn’t grow on him. all men in his family are of a similar build. t has nothing with the lifestyle, it’s just genetic.

loads of things are genetic but don’t make assumptions that everyone in this world has same genes as you. humans are diverse species, far more diverse than you think.

Oh for the love of God, please let it go. Fight in PMs; no one wants to see it here because you’re totally ruining any chance of this thread having relevance to developers. Biology and peoples’ body structures and so forth are totally irrelevant to this discussion.

Really? All this wall of text is just for a peek on a boob? Seriously?

I´m not entering the merit of its wild and raw, or the censorship… But all this idiotic bla, bla, bla just for a boob.

The concept art just look like the beta, so I believe the beta model was intended, but for some motive was censored. So first is better to know why it´s censored by some devs.

replace the replacement.

QQing about sexism aside, I find I have to agree with the OP.

I generally do not go for the skimpier armors (and in many games find myself on the other side of this argument defending like the one armor that isn’t already a chainmail bikini from people who want them all near non-existant), however in this case out of all the dungeon armor there is only a single set that even comes close to being classifiable as “skimpy” and even then only in comparison to the rest of the dungeon armor (taken by itself I wouldn’t call either version “skimpy”). The set was going for a particular aesthetic that was drastically different than the other dungeon armors and the change pretty much ruins that.

I’d say change it back. My 2 cents, don’t spend it all in one place

Edit: What if they simply included both options? (did anyone already suggest that? I don’t remember.) Let people choose whichever and leave it at that.

Wow. How hard is it to detach yourself from the pixellated character onscreen people.

It’s not me, its not my breast or skin showing. That barbie girl I play has no bearing on RL nor is she subjected to the rules of RL.

Skimpy is fun. It has no reflection on me in RL. It’s a gaming appearance choice, nothing more.

With Transmutation stones NO ONE is forced into an appearance because of stats. Let people have choices, and keep choices. I would have liked to earn that armor, now that option is gone.

Nobody likes the Fun Police.

That old armor looks pretty awesome actually, the concept art for both looks even better.

whats the point of having sexy female models if ya cant see some jiggly?

Honestly I like the beta version more, but Im not gonna lose any sleep over it considering ya only see ya toons back for 99.99% of ya gaming time.

TL;DR

The beta had a boobeh poking out and the final has it covered up. Intense and heated discussion regarding this deeply concerning issue ensues.

I’m actually a bigger fan of the more revealing hips in the beta version, though the asymmetry of the clutched, partially revealed boob is certainly more aesthetically pleasing as well. I probably wouldn’t mind so much if I could actually dye the random grandma panties they put on the model afterward, but as it stands you can’t. It’d also be nice if the panties weren’t grandma panties and were more like Norn Heavy T3, but well, let’s just go back to the beta version and all will be forgiven.

While the difference is very tiny the Beta does look a little better to me.

honestly though the Arah armors are hideous and not in a good way.

After finally getting enough tokens in Arah to get the armor for myself I noticed not only did they cover the left side up but they just copied the covered side over to the uncovered side while leaving the hand that was originally there. I think it would have been better to just remove the first hand so that at least it would have been symmetrical. Now it just looks awkward. Additionally, and this is just a small thing, I realize they needed to put some kind of underwear underneath but it would have been a little neater if they had worked it into the design somehow so that it either dyes the same color or at least is hidden on the sides by the bands. Now if I want to use a light color on the bands it really sticks out and is out of place.

beta version had a sort of ying yang effect i liked that
new one underwear definitely seems odd

There are other just as “provocative” armors in the game (t3 cult should have undies)

That’s all I can put in the direction the OP wants. But generally I’m all about practical armor for women (and men). Or exactly the same for both genders. Or the removal of genders in general is cool too. (why do dudes always gotta wear boxers? I want a hammock)

Anet did alot better in de-kittentifying the female video game character with GW2. Though I understand and respect the original design of the arah armor.

I stumbled over a picture of the beta version and really liked it for my warrior. I don’t think the new model can be considered practical in any way either
I’m in favour of the opening the option.

Tacked on panties that you can not dye suck.

End of story.

If only you could dye them to fit the rest of your colour choices it wouldn’t look too bad. Right now they stick out as an obvious politically-correct eye-sore.

The gem shop light armor doesn’t look good ether. The lines around the couch and butt look like a poor attempt to cover-up skin.

I really hope they change it back. The new model is so bad it’s not even funny.

I feel like it’s shameful to admire the female form in games because you’re just called “sexist” … “not all women look that way” that’s great, not all men look like norns with their shirts off.

Either way, the replacement of the boob-coverage on the top piece doesn’t bug me as it still fits the original design. The weird black underwear, though, just looks odd especially since it can’t be dyed. That should be fixed somehow. :/

I really don’t see what the big deal with the old Arah armor is. So it shows a hand grabbing the character’s boob, big whoop. But then I’m already so used to seeing that kind of thing on armor that to me it just looks perfectly normal.

But the first time I saw it in Lineage 2 I was like o_O.

Example: http://lineage2.stratics.com/content/gallery/comics/stabbymcstoo/index.php?img=L2-comic45.jpg

kitteno.8103:

You’re grasping at straws. If you want realism, then Human female characters shouldn’t be allowed to wear heavy armor and fight in melee in the first place, since they’re physically unsuited. Or, maybe, Anet should cut our damage in half?

What a load of silly bollocks.

Throughout history there have been any number of woman who donned the same armor as men and went out to fight with them.

The reason why women generally did not fight alongside men is because of cultural norms that treated women as second class citizens.

bump for justice. norn t3 cultural is way slootier

Both look like kitten compared to the concept art. The could be so kitten good, but instead they hire some people who cannot seem to get it right.

Feni.4306:

Are you really gonna sit here and tell me that women would be able to swing around hammers and move just as well as men inside the plated karma armor viewed here http://www.gw2armorgallery.com/human-heavy.htm#standard?

Its interesting that you should bring this up, since I have seen girls at the age of 16 wear heavy chain male with heavy plate male on top of that, charge into a melee in the blistering hot sun during fantasy events (and while wielding a heavy claymore). And trust me, they were quite mobile. If your only knowledge on medieval armor is based on what you see in movies and video games, don’t make ignorant remarks like this. Because you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about.

ANYONE can wear a full suit of armor, and be quite mobile in it. Even feeble girls… or strong military ladies.

In fact, one of my friends walks around in heavy chain male all day. That’s about 12 kilos around your neck and shoulders for a whole weekend. And she can do that just fine.

Carry on with your silly discussion.