Guild Wars 2

The current nerf that locks all skills when using those utilities makes both of these skills nearly useless. I think it is perfectly fair to lock the utility and weapon skills, but disabling healing skills was the straw that broke this camel’s back. Now these skills are downright pointless except to serve as stun breakers with a very long CD. I normally used Elixir S when I was taking a massive amount of damage and/or my health was dangerously low to buy me 3 more second and give me an opportunity to heal. Now all these skills do is postpone the inevitable by a few seconds because when you come out of them you still have no health and are usually downed.

Perhaps this change is justified in sPvP where a 1v1 or small scale fights make the 3 second invulnerability valuable since you only need to worry about burst damage from 1 or just a few players and you can cancel their burst combo with a well timed Elixir S. But in WvW 3 seconds of invulnerability without the ability to heal during it makes the skill severely underpowered because of multiple sources of damage, especially in large scale fights.

TL:DR: My suggestion is that in WvW/PVE Mist Form and Elixir S should allow the use of healing skills.

I can’t heal in my Death Shroud, why should you heal in Mist Form?
That’s not a simple SB, as you can’t be hitted while in that form and can prevent A LOT of damage (as a deadly immobilize+hb / immobilize+wells combo and so on)

I have level 80 necromancer in full exotics and I can tell you that DS is not even close to being the same thing as Elixir S or Mist Form. So please stop talking out of your kitten

The change was made for that exact reason. They don’t want you to be able to heal while invulnerable.

No, the change was to disable all utility skills, including healing, while invulnerable. My point is that disabling the healing skill was a mistake.

Skye.4983:

I have level 80 necromancer in full exotics and I can tell you that DS is not even close to being the same thing as Elixir S or Mist Form. So please stop talking out of your kitten

DS is a game mechanic that can be used to prevent damage and/or attack.

The recent changes to Elixir S together with the nerfs to engineer trait lines (Low Health Response System and cloaking device) drastically reduced the survivability of the engineer in WvWvW setting. Deaths happen 3 times more common as there is no longer any healing possibility during elixir S! No more solo roaming. More power to zergs.

60 s cooldown on a now fairly weak skill doesn’t make much sense, considering that mesmer gets 2 s of invulnerability every 8 seconds using blurred frenzy, sword #2 and does very good dmg with it as well. 8 sec assumes blade training adept trait, 10 s without the trait. So for mesmers it is fine to have 20% invulnerability uptime without even sacrificing a utility slot and taking no traits, while engineers at best have 5% of invulnerability uptime using an utility slot (non-traited for fair comparison). And warriors can still use their skills and attack during endure pain, have better armor and health!?

But I guess Arenanet doesn’t want engineers ever to become popular in WvWvW. Nerfed with every single update and given back some useless buffs (you know how short time healing turret is gonna last in WvWvW). Guardians were already the most popular profession in WvWvW before this patch and together with warrior guardians have been in top 3 pve professions for ages. Yet they got significant buffs. What is the logic?!

Unlike most professions engineers don’t have any weapon skills which allow fast movement (e.g. ride the lightning, rush, heartseeker, swoop, infiltrator’s arrow just to mention few). Jump shot animation is super slow with the rifled barrels traits (when this bug is gonna get fixed?). So basically engineer has no easy way of disengagement like most professions do have.

Developers please explain.

Tiborb.1453:

Skye.4983:

I have level 80 necromancer in full exotics and I can tell you that DS is not even close to being the same thing as Elixir S or Mist Form. So please stop talking out of your kitten

DS is a game mechanic that can be used to prevent damage and/or attack.

DS is a profession mechanic that gives you an effective second health bar. It does not prevent damage, it lets you absorb more of it. It also comes with its own set of abilities and can be further traited to give you a variety of benefits such as fury, retaliation, removal of conditions, or healing you when you exit DS. DS has a short cooldown that can be further reduced to 5 seconds if traited for and it is replenished through attacks.

Elixir S and Mist Form are utilities on long CDs that give you stun break and a very short period of invulnerability.

Class is over kids.

There’s no question that Mesmers have the highest invuln time with their short CD Blurred Frenzy and F4. Blurred Frenzy already locks you in place and from skills – F4, though, should have the same limitations placed on it that Elixir S and Mistform has to be fair.

Now as for healing being blocked, this is a bit of a case of one ruining it for everyone. The Elementalist, of course, as they have they could just Mistform and Ether Renewal to strip all debuffs and get a nice heal, and there was nothing you could do about it. I would also argue that Elixir S + Heals made the bunker Engineers a bit too tanky. But really the question here is what is the purpose of invulns? To make channeled/important moves unstoppable, or as a respite from attacks that could give the seconds needed to finish a cooldown and live to it?

Skye.4983:

No, the change was to disable all utility skills, including healing, while invulnerable. My point is that disabling the healing skill was a mistake.

Go watch this: http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2guru/c/2208106
Skip ahead to 35:30 and listen to what all they have to say in regards to this. Notice, this was a discussion with 2 of the devs, 5 days ago.

Incase you’d rather not listen to it:
“Mistform, this is a big change, the elementalist will no longer be able to use utility skills while in mist form, this includes healing abilities. The idea behind this is that we want to space out the survivability of the elementalist just a little bit. Meaning that you have to wait until after the mistform is done to to activate your heal. This is obviously going to be very big. If you’re on a signet guy it won’t be as much. If you’re on ether renewal which is going to cleanse off a lot of conditions this is big. Which means that now other classes that are going to try to condition pressure you are going to succeed at that. Because as you all know before the downside with ether renewal is that it’s a channel, so you actually have to be invulnerable while it happens with mistform and no one could interrupt your heal. Now that’s no longer the case so you have to pick and choose.”

Everything they had to say about the skill change was centered around healing while it was active.

In mistform/elixer x you are invulnerable already. That in itself is a huge advantage, especially since it isn’t even an elite skill. Utility skills are supposed to aid you in combat, not make you a god. Not to mention you can move (excluding immobilize) while in this form, and ele gets 2 mistforms technically. The nerf was necessary, you just need to learn to get past it.

Oh I will get past it, don’t you worry, I have 7 80s, only Elementalist is at 73, and likely to stay at that level for the foreseeable future. I will just get on the thief and laugh at you while I steal your boons, stealth at will while removing conditions and healing and be safe in the knowledge that the next patch will make me even better.

The simple fact is that the devs have gone too far in nerfing mist form and elixir s. Removing the ability to use Elites and Utilities, thats perfectly fair. But removing the ability to heal made these skills pointless. They are no better than blocks now, with the added benefit of a stun breaker. That stun breaker does not justify those skills on my toolbar anymore. They have effectively destroyed those skills.

I laugh when I read all of your responses, you have that mentality of “them” or “those engineers and elementalists,” it’s not about them and us, it’s about making the professions viable and fun to play. Having played every one but the elementalists extensively in WvW I can tell you that I never thought the mist form or elixir s being overpowered, if you couldn’t kill the player in between the very long CDs of these skills, then you weren’t going to kill them anyway.