Guild Wars 2

I fully agree, especially for bosses.

A party with 2 condition build players already gets affected by the caps. In fact, this happens for all condition builds, since even one condition overlap makes the players lose a lot of damage. It’s just punishing people for not sticking with burst based builds.

All damage dealing condition stacks should be put separately, based on the dealer, with cleansing removing all stacks from all dealers.

Wanko.8103:

Well, that’s about it. Dragon is a single mob and without limit damage will skyrocket.

No it won’t. If an enemy has 24 stacks of bleed and I apply a new bleed it will not refresh the duration of the previous 24 stacks. All it does is add a new bleed with its own separate damage and duration independent of any other bleed. Nothing more. There’s no skyrocketing damage whatsoever.

NinjaKnight.1340:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

NinjaKnight.1340:

It seems to me that the OP and others want the Bosses to adapt to their play style rather than the players to adapt to the situation. It would be like saying take away Burn Immunity from XX boss because I like to use fire skills. I think they need to adapt to the situation instead.

By design most group events are fast moving fast kill scenarios with the Boss appearing at the end. High DPS is the only way to get a Gold consistently. Most of the pre-boss mob go down in a second or less. Even Veterans and Captains go down in a few seconds a big stack of DOTs would do no good on those.

I was often getting only Silver in some of the Centaur raid events until I switched to a high power high precision somewhat Glass Cannon build on my Ranger. Now I’m almost always Gold Medalled in any event. I even carry a set of +Vit/Health/toughness gear around when I want to become less squishy.

I really don’t think this needs to be changed. Those events are optional so those players should just go somewhere else where their condition based build has advantages over DPS builds.

Adapting your playstyle to the boss’ means something like how with the Fire Elemental you need to get inside the room and not hang back like you normally would. It does NOT mean that the boss should, by its very nature, utterly invalidate 1 of the 2 methods of dealing damage in the game, especially when certain classes (namely necromancer) largely can only deal that type of damage.

Also, considering conditions are all ABOUT DPS, since they only have DoTs, they should honestly be BETTER against enemies that take a long time to take down, compared to how direct damage is better for disposing of weaker enemies, namely groups, more quickly, since it doesn’t have to wait on the DoTs. Except it’s broken now, where condition builds get screwed in both situations

Adapting playstyle can mean different things using different weapons and skills and in some cases even changing build.

And I guess I meant high DD DPS.

I haven’t played my Necro for a while but I’m pretty sure it does have DD weapon skills.

Besides, it isn’t as if a Condition build can’t survive a boss fight, it is just that they don’t get a Gold. If that is such a big deal then rebuild for the fight.

if you’ve been out of the loop regarding necros lately, let mee give you the fast version:
our traits are a mess, the class is bugged to hell and back, the minions AI is more artificial stupidity than intelligence, our DD skills are horrendously UP, and it ends with the only viable build being conditions (hence why most necros now use S/D)

there is no rebuild, only zuu….conditions

NinjaKnight.1340:

Adapting playstyle can mean different things using different weapons and skills and in some cases even changing build.

And I guess I meant high DD DPS.

I haven’t played my Necro for a while but I’m pretty sure it does have DD weapon skills.

Besides, it isn’t as if a Condition build can’t survive a boss fight, it is just that they don’t get a Gold. If that is such a big deal then rebuild for the fight.

So you want someone to completely swap out their traits and gear entirely because due to bad mechanics they are incapable of dealing any remotely significant amounts of damage to champions/bosses. Not because they traited into survivability or what have you, they traited just fine for damage. But the type of damage they took is useless against them.
And no, necro really doesn’t have DD. They have dagger (poor DD, short range), axe (poor DD, not very good range), staff (nonexistent DD, plenty of DoT), and scepter (nonexistent DD, plenty of DoT). Then the pets that they could potentially use for DD have broken AIs and would get obliterated by the obscene AoE of a champion or boss anyway, and then Death Shroud can only be kept up so much of the time. They have absolutely lousy DD capabilities, pretty much all the damage they can do is DoT. Which is utterly valueless against champions/bosses due to the stacking mechanics.

damage should be adjusted and each person should get their own condition stacks.pain in thekitten getting better rewards with 30 other condition classes competing against me

they would have to seriously buff large scale boss’s hp bar or defences if this happened. 25 per person??? I want harder dragons and behemoth not easier.

NinjaEd.3946:

they would have to seriously buff large scale boss’s hp bar or defences if this happened. 25 per person??? I want harder dragons and behemoth not easier.

Debuffs do not work like in WoW. It’s not possible to maintain 25 stacks with just one person. Go read up on it and come back.

NinjaKnight.1340:

Adapting playstyle can mean different things using different weapons and skills and in some cases even changing build.

And I guess I meant high DD DPS.

I haven’t played my Necro for a while but I’m pretty sure it does have DD weapon skills.

Besides, it isn’t as if a Condition build can’t survive a boss fight, it is just that they don’t get a Gold. If that is such a big deal then rebuild for the fight.

Wow, so your solution to condition builds not working on ANY champion/boss is: “just retrait”. Yes, that makes much sense.
It’s like saying “elementalist is bad in pvp, but that doesn’t matter, just pick a thief and forget about elementalist in pvp”.

keep the 25 stack limit, just make it so its per person. Each player can stack up to 25 bleeds on a boss would be fair. also make it so each person can add there own poison and burn effects too.

Vibe.2861:

Change the 25 bleed stack limit

• Introduce 25 bleed stack limit PER PLAYER on a single mob, eg. every player has his own stack of bleeds on a mob

This. Completely agree. I have found that I do hardly any bleed damage in big groups because of this.

I am not currently playing a condition thief as it is not worth it because of this.

XelNigma.6315:

keep the 25 stack limit, just make it so its per person. Each player can stack up to 25 bleeds on a boss would be fair. also make it so each person can add there own poison and burn effects too.

Yeah something should be done with other damage dealing conditions as well. Capped Vulnerability is ok though.

how about convert condition damages to direct damages when fighting champions / dragons?

everyone’s happy yes?

give them champions / dragons a new buff
“immune to bleeding / burning / poison damage. all bleeding / burning / poison damage converted into direct damage”

if like this, everyone will be happy yes?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

give them champions / dragons a new buff
“immune to bleeding / burning / poison damage. all bleeding / burning / poison damage converted into direct damage”

Or they could just, ya know, remove the arbitrary and unnecessary cap on bleeds.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

if like this, everyone will be happy yes?

No.

NinjaEd.3946:

they would have to seriously buff large scale boss’s hp bar or defences if this happened. 25 per person??? I want harder dragons and behemoth not easier.

Removing the bleed cap would cause bosses to be no easier than having only players who deal direct damage participate currently would.

XelNigma.6315:

keep the 25 stack limit, just make it so its per person. Each player can stack up to 25 bleeds on a boss would be fair. also make it so each person can add there own poison and burn effects too.

Why even this concession? There’s no reason for any cap whatsoever.

You don’t meet in the middle with someone saying that 2+2=5 by going, “Alright, well even if you don’t agree it’s 4 let’s at least agree it’s 4.5. Sound good?” This thread holds one of the few arguments outside of mathematics where there really is an out-and-out correct answer. There’s one group of people who agree that a cap on bleeds is a problem, and then another group of people who don’t understand why they’re wrong yet.

unliketea.4831:

stack limit is needed to balance “stacks in intensity” conditions with “stacks in duration” conditions like burning. Everyone knows that dead boss corpse should be burning for another two hours from all the burning that was applied during the encounter.

So your solution to burn-based damage being broken in its own right is to keep bleed-based damage also broken? Burns, bleeds, poisons, and direct damage should all be exactly as viable with thirty players utilizing them as they are with one player.

I’m not too familiar with the burning mechanic, but if it works as I suppose and as you allude, then it’s a bum mechanic that’s being unfairly and unnecessarily sacrificed on the alter of “different for the sake of different”. Unless they can find a real, genuine way to make the various damage over time mechanics separate while remaining equal with both one another and direct damage, they need to all be converted to stacking intensity and have no cap.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

how about convert condition damages to direct damages when fighting champions / dragons?

everyone’s happy yes?

give them champions / dragons a new buff
“immune to bleeding / burning / poison damage. all bleeding / burning / poison damage converted into direct damage”

if like this, everyone will be happy yes?

No.
for conditionmancers, a major part of our AoE is epidemic, which spreads all condidions to mobs near the target, no conditions, no AoE in fights with adds, like the risen giant in orr. when it thows maggots, I drop an epidemic on the giant and it catches all of them, they have so little health that the bleeds, burns and poisons on the giant is enough to make them die within 2 seconds without more outside influence, leaving me and the rest of the ranged classes to focus on the giant, and the melee classes worry about one less thing whilst trying to avoid the stomps.

in addition, our talents and abilities have “+x% damage/life force per condition on foe” and lots of our traits are things like “increases duration of conditions added by sceptre by 33%” or “increases bleed duration by 20%” meaning that making it DD would be a nerf to those abilities,one of our grandmaster curse ones in particular “increased damage by 2% per condition on your foe”, removing bleeds, burns, confuse, and poisons is an entire 8% less damage, and add in the fact that most champions are immune to CC, that removes stuns, dazes, and fears, so that’s antother 6% damage we can’t get anyway
(ele’s also have the +5% damage to burning foes" trait as well)

The bottom line is direct damage scale lineary, condition damage is capped: 20 conditionmancers can’t killing a boss twice as quick as 10 conditionmancers, where as 20 direct damager can kill that boss twice as quick as 10 DD’er.

Middlebud.7295:

So your solution to burn-based damage being broken in its own right is to keep bleed-based damage also broken? Burns, bleeds, poisons, and direct damage should all be exactly as viable with thirty players utilizing them as they are with one player.

I’m not too familiar with the burning mechanic, but if it works as I suppose and as you allude, then it’s a bum mechanic that’s being unfairly and unnecessarily sacrificed on the alter of “different for the sake of different”. Unless they can find a real, genuine way to make the various damage over time mechanics separate while remaining equal with both one another and direct damage, they need to all be converted to stacking intensity and have no cap.

Burning is not broken … In fact I think its a nice step away from the common conditions mechanic many games use. Their implementation means that if something is already burning, it can’t be burning more … but it can burn longer. Do you remember the conflagration that burning used to be on a target (the actual particle effect)? How could you possibly be burning more than that and hope to stack burning?

Don’t get caught in the mindset that conditions must act in a “certain” way allowing uncapped stacking and/or refreshing timers.

For those upset about not getting gold, I feel you pain. I wish the healing done, and non-damaging conditions were taken into account when calculating your “contribution”. But don’t expect to be “helpful” when the boss is already bleeding out of every pore and consumed in conflagration by throwing “MORE DOTS” at it …

Bust Nak said it very cleanly…

The bottom line is direct damage scale lineary, condition damage is capped

20 direct damage characters twice do twice the damage as 10 DD characters
20 condition characters do not do twice the damage as 10 condition characters

The 21st DD character does full damage to the target
The 21st condition character does almost no damage to the target

Hard to say it any clearer.

Ulari

Okay, here is why the bleed cap will never be lifted.

This would allow the ‘potential damage’ of a condition build to HUGELY outweigh direct damage. Suddenly you’d have everyone going bleed builds for bosses because you can all chain your skill together and reach 50 stacks, and do a bazillion damage while kiting him.

Condition damage is already the strongest form of damage and is totally unmitigated.
PvP’ers have even sometimes asked for the limit to be dropped to 20.

I do see the problem in large scale fights, and i think it certainly is an issue, however raising the cap just makes the problem even worse, and makes a huge nightmare for balancing.

Here is two potential solutions;
*At 25 stacks, any additional bleeds added push off the bottom stack, and the stack that was just pushed of deals 50% of the damage it would have dealt as unmitigated direct damage.

• Each character has his or her own ‘instance’ of bleeds. This is a pretty big change, and obviously would need some changes along with it, and would prevent characters from stacking bleeds together, but would give a fair representation to all.

Except it’s nearly impossible for any build(other than the Conditionmancer) to hit the 25-stack limit on their own. It -only- limits groups. And it limits groups so bad that condition-damage based builds do next-to-no damage in group fights. Remove the cap for Veteran and Champion mobs, leave it as is for PvP.

Illushia.3721:

Except it’s nearly impossible for any build(other than the Conditionmancer) to hit the 25-stack limit on their own. It -only- limits groups. And it limits groups so bad that condition-damage based builds do next-to-no damage in group fights. Remove the cap for Veteran and Champion mobs, leave it as is for PvP.

So? why do you need to hit the cap on your own? And like i said, as soon as the cap is removed (which i emphasize again, it wont), it’ll be bleed builds or go home.
plus it far more likely the coding is tied into the bleeding itself, not into which mob its hitting, and they’d likely have to recode every vet/champ mob if they did that.

No, it makes far more sense for additional stacks of bleed to deal 50% of the damage they would have done directly or for remaining stacks to do this.

Even at 50%, thats huge damage, considering how much total damage bleeding does.

This makes sense to me. But to make it very simple…

Warrior hits boss with all his attacks in, say, 2 seconds. Warrior does 1000 damage in 2 seconds.

Necro uses bleeds instead of brute attack force. Each bleed pulses at 200 damage/second. Necro is able to stack 5 bleeds in 2 seconds.

Necro and warrior do the same damage.

How it currently works is that the warrior can do as much damage as he wants, but after bleeds cap, the Necro can do hardly any more damage at all, even if the damage-causing is almost equal between direct attacks and bleeds.

In short, there should be a higher cap on bleed stacks. Much higher.

I cannot speak for necros but running condition/precision builds on both my ranger and warrior, I’ll have to agree to the suggestion that bleeds should be per-person and your UI should reflect only the bleeds you are applying.

If monster difficulty/HP needs to be tuned (boosted) to keep fights a fun challenge, then so be it—at least everyone running condition dmg builds will be putting in their part.

2.5 + 0.5 * Level + 0.05 * Condition Damage per stack per second

If this formula is true, what stops players from griefing by having (exaggeration) level 1 players with 10 condition damage stack 25 bleeds dealing only 3.5 DPS each, thus locking out level 80 players with 2k Condition damage from dealing their potential of 142.5 DPS each?

Hmm…this is a tough one. I’m a condition-build mesmer, and I always get a gold. I didn’t even know this was a ‘thing’ until I happened upon this thread. My gut reaction is that I agree with the OP, but then there’s some things to consider.

First off, the difference between me, a condition mesmer, dropping a bunch of conditions which then run on auto-pilot while I focus on staying alive or helping others, is very large when compared to a DD who is constantly in the thick of battle.

Secondly, if you make bleed stacks per person, and you have 100 people stacking bleed (a conditionmancer can get it quite high, and the highest I’ve gotten on my own with my hybrid build is about 9) then the boss would be dead pretty much in seconds. Yes, the damage overall would compare to what DD’s can do, however DD’s can’t also do conditions alongside direct damage, they can’t damage the bosses while they’re in their air or out of reach (as opposed to condition damage which lingers until it ends), and they’re a lot less versatile in the thick of battle. Also keep in mind that DD is much easier to avoid than condition damage. It’s usually condition damage that kills me, especially in PvE; it’s not the meleers or the mages, it’s the guys stacking conditions on me that I don’t have the ability to heal because my condition heals are on cooldown, and I have no way to get out of them, they’re just there until they end or my heals refresh.

Still…ugh…the idea that our damage is being ignored entirely just because someone else already applied it REALLY sucks. I can’t get over that. I guess I see the problem posed by the OP, but I’m not agreeing on the solution. To be fair, I don’t think anyone in this thread (on either side of the argument) has figured out a good solution to this. It’s a difficult problem, one caused by the design of the game itself.

Anlyon.8375:

Illushia.3721:

Except it’s nearly impossible for any build(other than the Conditionmancer) to hit the 25-stack limit on their own. It -only- limits groups. And it limits groups so bad that condition-damage based builds do next-to-no damage in group fights. Remove the cap for Veteran and Champion mobs, leave it as is for PvP.

So? why do you need to hit the cap on your own? And like i said, as soon as the cap is removed (which i emphasize again, it wont), it’ll be bleed builds or go home.
plus it far more likely the coding is tied into the bleeding itself, not into which mob its hitting, and they’d likely have to recode every vet/champ mob if they did that.

No, it makes far more sense for additional stacks of bleed to deal 50% of the damage they would have done directly or for remaining stacks to do this.

Even at 50%, thats huge damage, considering how much total damage bleeding does.

No. You are not understanding the mechanics of how this works.

Direct damage dealers can run up to a fight, no matter how many people are there, and do damage.

Condition damage dealers run up to a fight, and if there’s more than two people there doing bleeds, do NO DAMAGE AT ALL.

The bleed cap NEEDS to be removed. There should never be a mechanic, in a game that puts so much emphasis on group work, that completely negates any effort put forth by people with bleeds.

Someone earlier put this out, but say you have a fight where one DD dealer shows up and is attacking an event mob. Event mob has 15k hp. DD does maybe 1k dps.

So now a condition damage dealer shows up, and he also does 1k dps. But the mob has 30k hp now. But that’s fine, because they both do 1k dps. So the mob dies.

But say there’s a fight where there’s 10 DD dealers. All 10 do 1k dps. So that’s 10k dps total. Which is fine.

But there’s also 10 condition damage dealers. But because of the bleed cap, and how poisons and burns work, they’re only doing around 6k dps total, but there’s 10 of them. So the mob’s HP increases like there’s 20 people there(10 DD, 10 CD). But there’s not 20 people worth of damage being done.

Do you understand how the bleed cap and the way poison and burn works is actually broken?

They’re limiting people when they shouldn’t be.

This mechanic is BROKEN.

Actually, ALL condition damage caps should be done away with. Period.

Fine, if it’s REALLY necessary, cap vulnerability stacks.

But condition damage caps make utterly NO sense. There’s no cap on direct damage as far as I’m aware, and if, on a single player-to-player basis, condition damage stacking is at all comparable to direct damage, then there’s no sensible reason for caps on condition damage stacking.

Just like direct DPS, condition damage grows linearly, UP TO THE CAP, with the number of players. It doesn’t grow exponentially. 2 players stacking conditions do 2x the damage (up to the cap), just like 2 players doing direct damage. But those 2 players or however many players doing direct damage have no limit.

And if a single player of any profession can go overboard with condition stacking, then the profession should be redesigned, not just hit some condition damage cap. Again, there is no direct damage cap if a player can go overboard with DD.

With all GW2’s innovations, the fact that this is still an issue just shows how ANet still is stuck in some MMO tropes and conventions that are meaningless and pointless, except that they have become crutches of last resort as an alternative to better design.

I do agree, though, that condition damage needs to keep it’s cap in PvP. Or everyone would bleed everyone to death because it’s not mitigated by armor.

But in PvE, it’s not fun to limit players based on build, just because someone else happens to like playing the same build as you.

My suggestion for that has always been: Remove the cap for Veteran and Champion mobs, leave the cap the same for normal mobs.

There’s been talk about lowering the cap for players, because Bleeds can stack so high as to drain you while you can’t do anything about it. But I don’t PvP much so I don’t want to put an opinion on something I don’t completely understand.

It’s extra hard/rare to stack 25 bleeds on a player anyway, unless some sort of lucky epidemic by 2 necros at the same time (in PvP that is). But I wouldn’t mind if they drop it to 20, cause that’s PvP anyway and 20 is hard to reach in PvP.

The Problem with the stacks is based on the rank of the monster, the higher his Hp are and the more people come to fight against it.

So why not say:
normal mobs, enemy players, veterans: 25 stacks
champions: 50 stacks
Bosses: 75 stacks (but maybe with shorter duration)

whyme.3281:

The Problem with the stacks is based on the rank of the monster, the higher his Hp are and the more people come to fight against it.

So why not say:
normal mobs, enemy players, veterans: 25 stacks
champions: 50 stacks
Bosses: 75 stacks (but maybe with shorter duration)

No it makes absolutely no sense to cap it like that. What if there’s 20 condition builds? 75 will be reached way too easy.

I agree – the condition caps should be removed or altered in some fashion. If there are characters that aren’t getting rewards for bosses -at all- simply because all of their damage is being ignored and negated by a condition cap (which isn’t even a boss-specific trait like immunity or resistance), then obviously something is going wrong here.

I started playing a Warrior recently and was speaking with another player about how much I enjoyed using the sword. I was told that I should choose something else because that weapon was basically useless against bosses due to the same reason stated by the OP. I imagine it isn’t as big an issue for Warriors, since they do a fair amount of damage regardless of conditions and have a lot of weapon flexibility, but I sympathize with players who’ve had this problem.

it can be summed up like this:
if each person does 1000 DD per second, and there are 20 people, the group is doing 20,000 DPS
if 20 bleed users stack 10 bleeds each on the boss and 10 bleeds do 1000 condition damage per second, the group SHOULD be doing 20,000 DPS

what is happening is that we’re getting capped at 25 bleeds, so the result ends up like:
20 bleed users, each bleed does 100 damage per second, the bleed cap is 25, the total DPS is 2500, only 2.5 condition users are actually doing damage

every DD user is another 1000 DPS, every bleed user past 3 is dead weight

people saying “oh this is OP in PVP” if you get a 25 stack of bleeds, you’re screwed.
whether you have 25 bleeds or 250 bleeds, you’re dead (the only difference is that you have about two seconds of frantic “oh god where is my cleanse button”, because assuming a single bleed does 100 damage per second, 25 will kill you in 4 seconds, 250 will kill you in one). so this will NOT affect PvP in the slightest.

unless you want to argue that 1000 CD is inerently better than 1000 DD (remembering that 1000 DD is instant, and CD can be cleansed), there is NO reason that there should be a bleed cap

I don’t play conditions yet but agree with this.

For example :

If you had two pure damage necros they would both be dishing out thier build to it’s complete efficiency possible.

If you have two condition characters, they are not being efficient at all with the way this sounds.

So in conclusion, if two damage warriors can sit there and pound on a mob without them having reduced damage for using the same weapon set, why do the condition users get punished?

People always think that a single Bleed would do a lot of DPS, but that’s just not true. If you are lucky, you get your single Bleed to ~120 DPS (which would require a awful lot of + condition damage). So, even if the cap is hit, you only would deal 3k DPS which is pathetic if you compare it to the damage done by a single direct damage char (considering that you need at least 3+ players to keep 25 bleeds up).

Overall bleeding damage is better than direct damage since it is not reduced by armor, protection and so on, but cause direct damage attacks hit a lot harder than those Bleed, it’s fine. We don’t need the cap to keep it balanced.

Agreed, as a Conditionmancer this is one of my biggest frustrations, and not only for boss fights or big events, but in general whenever there are more than two condition/bleed based classes around they immediately start working against each other.

I often end up completely changing weapon sets in an attempt to do some dps as opposed to bleeds but even this is frustrating as my build is not dps focused and my damage is pretty poor. Yet I still found this to be more effective than trying to stack bleeds on a bleed capped boss.

Clearly condition (especially bleed) based builds are at a huge disadvantage in these situations compared to other more dps focused builds.

As a thief, I’m perfectly able to put 25 stacks of bleed, if I mange to let him stay over my caltrops. Which is not hard to accomplish btw. But the 25 stacks won’t last more than 3~4 secs, it drops to an avarege of 20. Which is fine, but it should be 25 stacks max per player.

I say that all of us condition user SHOULD start switching to a direct damage skill set for boss fights.

Maybe when bosses all start going down much more quickly, A Net will take a look at this.

Tallenn.9218:

I say that all of us condition user SHOULD start switching to a direct damage skill set for boss fights.

Maybe when bosses all start going down much more quickly, A Net will take a look at this.

I already am, because that’s the only way to get a bronze medal. I said bronze because that’s the max I can get with my conditions based traits and gear.

The stack limit is perfectly fine. It’s the way the game calculates a player’s contribution that needs adjusting.

I suffer from the same problem with a bleed based Ranger and I find it’s exacerbated by the fact that not only are many of my bleed stacks not registering and being counted, but even when they are, they often don’t have enough time to tick off and cause any significant damage. That means the game thinks I haven’t been contributing and often, results in less than a gold. I’ve taken to jumping into melee, just to register a few raw damage hits, but I’m not really built for surviving in the fray so doing this sometimes is suicidal.

But this is NOT because of stacking limits, it’s because of the contribution calculation. It’s just not up to snuff. They need to make that more intelligent so that it counts not just your raw DPS output, but how hard you’ve worked at it. For condition stacking, don’t count just the ones that actually do land and add to the stack, but also the ones that were discarded due to the limit. That should make it much more friendly to condition builds. After all, it’s not like were aren’t working as hard as everyone else, we just aren’t getting the credit for it. Imagine the outcry of melee blows were being discarded because there was a limit on how many times a mob can be hit per second.

Blacklight.2871:

The stack limit is perfectly fine. It’s the way the game calculates a player’s contribution that needs adjusting.

I suffer from the same problem with a bleed based Ranger and I find it’s exacerbated by the fact that not only are many of my bleed stacks not registering and being counted, but even when they are, they often don’t have enough time to tick off and cause any significant damage. That means the game thinks I haven’t been contributing and often, results in less than a gold. I’ve taken to jumping into melee, just to register a few raw damage hits, but I’m not really built for surviving in the fray so doing this sometimes is suicidal.

But this is NOT because of stacking limits, it’s because of the contribution calculation. It’s just not up to snuff. They need to make that more intelligent so that it counts not just your raw DPS output, but how hard you’ve worked at it. For condition stacking, don’t count just the ones that actually do land and add to the stack, but also the ones that were discarded due to the limit. That should make it much more friendly to condition builds. After all, it’s not like were aren’t working as hard as everyone else, we just aren’t getting the credit for it. Imagine the outcry of melee blows were being discarded because there was a limit on how many times a mob can be hit per second.

Care to explain why you think the stack limit “is perfectly fine”? And getting contribution for not actually contributing (not dealing damage due to limit) to a fight is silly. So you want people to stack more bleeds on an already 25 bleeded boss but not doing actually any damage just to get a medal? Sorry, but that’s just plain silly.

I’m going to have to agree with this. I was ecstatic about my new thief condition build, throwing caltrops and using the Death Blossom skill. However, making yourself a condition damage user, you are in turn sacrificing direct damage. I don’t want to be stuck doing 1/8 of the base damage of a power build and then on top of that only get 2 stacks of conditions on a mob. I could see removing that especially for pvp would be very overpowered. I wouldn’t want to be running around with 100+ stacks of bleed on me, reguardless of who it came from. But I think it should be changed for certain mobs, especially group event mobs.

I could see removing that especially for pvp would be very overpowered.

It wouldn’t be overpowered in the slightest.

I wouldn’t want to be running around with 100+ stacks of bleed on me

If you were attacked by a group of direct damage dealers instead, you’d just be instantly downed.

conditions i think need a relook at. aside from bleed, fire is a joke, you cant stack intensity and a lot of skills and traits give you the chance to inflict fire which just renews the stack and doesnt contribute to more dmg at all.

It should be per player, I’m betting it was just not put in this way for lack of development time before launch honestly. Having more than one person who applies your type of condition should not nerf your own damage potential.

It’s hard to believe it could be for any other reason.

I can’t think of an argument right now, I’d have to agree. Persoanlly I really enjoy condition builds, the cap is the only thing that’s bothered me.

Vibe.2861:

Change the 25 bleed stack limit

This really should be one of the first things the devs should do. The current 25 bleed stack limit per mob makes it impossible for condition based builds to do any real damage in big events and thus recieve any kind of reward for a fight even though you’re there pressing skills the entire time.

I play a Conditionmancer (Condition based Necro) and it’s practically impossible to recieve any kind of medal on big dragon fights or any kind of big fight for that matter. I can stack 15 bleeds in seconds on a single mob. That means 2 conditions based players can easily hit 25 bleeds limit and thus render any other condition damage useless. On big fights there’s just so many people with conditions the stack is maxed in a second and the direct damage I do is just terrible. I’m finding myself switching weapon sets for big fights just to get that bronze medal, even though my traits don’t support it. This shouldn’t be like that.

There is no sense why there should be a global 25 bleed stack limit per mob. The condition damage is the same as direct damage, just dealt over time. Noone is going to deal more damage than they would if they played solo anyway, if the bleed stack is removed/raised/changed.

This is very gamebreaking for condition builds right now and really should be top priority.

Proposed fixes:

• Remove bleed stack limit entirely
• Introduce 25 bleed stack limit PER PLAYER on a single mob, eg. every player has his own stack of bleeds on a mob

I agree 100%, it needs to just be removed entirely.

Thinking about it now… PvE bosses (even when you don’t get your condition damage in) get defeated fairly easily. Wouldn’t removing the cap mean super fast/easy boss battles? I haven’t been to a boss where there hasn’t been atleast 20 players participating.

Cupid.1796:

Thinking about it now… PvE bosses (even when you don’t get your condition damage in) get defeated fairly easily. Wouldn’t removing the cap mean super fast/easy boss battles? I haven’t been to a boss where there hasn’t been atleast 20 players participating.

That isn’t the point. 20 Direct Damage dealers do their complete damage to the boss at all times.

20 Condition Damage dealers, while separate, do their damage. But get all 20 of them into a place, and only about four of them are doing any damage at all, especially if they’re conditionmancers where almost ALL of their damage is through condition damage.

Because of the cap, about 16 of the people who showed up to the fight are doing jack squat, but the mob is still scaling to the amount of people nearby.

The mobs are actually dying slower than they should, and fixing this would actually bring damage back to where it’s supposed to be.

You wouldn’t be buffing it. You’d be fixing it.

Illushia.3721:

Cupid.1796:

Thinking about it now… PvE bosses (even when you don’t get your condition damage in) get defeated fairly easily. Wouldn’t removing the cap mean super fast/easy boss battles? I haven’t been to a boss where there hasn’t been atleast 20 players participating.

That isn’t the point. 20 Direct Damage dealers do their complete damage to the boss at all times.

20 Condition Damage dealers, while separate, do their damage. But get all 20 of them into a place, and only about four of them are doing any damage at all, especially if they’re conditionmancers where almost ALL of their damage is through condition damage.

Because of the cap, about 16 of the people who showed up to the fight are doing jack squat, but the mob is still scaling to the amount of people nearby.

The mobs are actually dying slower than they should, and fixing this would actually bring damage back to where it’s supposed to be.

You wouldn’t be buffing it. You’d be fixing it.

Couldn’t have possibly said it any better…

Sound argument to me : )

It does sound unfair, CDs having to share damage when DDs get to do all thier own.