Guild Wars 2

and why I think they would be beneficial to WvW.

Just some thoughts on what I’d like to see changed in WvW. I think the following changes would bring about a more tactical and strategic approach to the WvW system.

1. Remove player damage to gates. It makes no sense and to some extent makes siege almost useless when you can have 50-80 players dps’ing down a gate within 30s. I’ve seen 60-70 person zergs go from contesting a fully upgraded garrison to flipping it under 2 minutes, well before the WP is even available for use and faster than any sufficient force can port and run to garrison or across the map to a keep.

2. Disconnect the WP’s from the facilities timer when contested. It makes no logical sense that a WP shielded within Garrison or a Keep becomes contested once the guards or any other wall or gate is attacked. It’s well within the facility and there’s currently no logical means of it being contested unless forces are on the Inner Defences of a facility. Refer to item 1 why this is problematic in defense. At most it should only be unavailable for 30-45s.

3. Remove Golem Blueprints. Instead make golems part of Garrison/Keep upgrades. Once a Garrison/keep is fully upgraded the option to build golems comes available. No new geographic facilities or changes to Garrison or Keep layout would be needed. Process as follows:

a. Once currently available max upgrades are completed, golem building becomes available by opening 5 slots at the bottom of the upgrade window.

c. Upon selecting build on an open slot, the workers begin building the Golem in the same way they currently upgrade the facilities. Cost of building a Golem would be 1g or 100 Badges of Honor as the current prices dictate. Supply needed to build golem is same as current.

d. Once the golem is finished the first slot colors in like any other upgrade and the Deploy button becomes active. Players can “deploy” the golem, making it appear outside the main Inner Gate of the facility or within the Lords Room(to be determined by devs). Players can optionally not deploy the golem and continue to build the other 4 slots.

e. Once 5 golems are slotted, the option to convert all 5 to an Omega Golem comes available with the associated costs.

f. All golems have a 30m decay timer once deployed. After 30m, they despawn.

4. Auto-loot in WvW. The bag pickup is annoying and all too often people can’t get them.

I like allot of your ideas and here are my thoughts on them.

To #1: I think it’s fine as is. There is max amount that can be in the zone at a time and if they really have that much of a force attacking a fort it should be easy to take.
To #2: That should have been done a long time ago.
To #3: The downside to this is what happens when the team doesn’t control anything? They can’t build golems which will hurt their ability to breakout. It would be great if they incorporated a defense golem into forts though.
To #4: I agree, auto-loot would be awesome. Any loot that can’t fit into a player’s bag is moved to a spoils chest.

There is a problem with your system. First of all i do not necessarily agree with your approach to golems. If a server constantly gets there garrison wipped before it can fully upgrade, this means they will not even have the option to get golems. Secondly, auto-loot if WvW or anywhere in gw2 will not work. what happens when your bag is full? will you have pop ups all over your screen during a zerg fight to decide which look you want to take? And lastly, they contest the waypoints for good reason. If you split your forces on the WvW map (one force attacking hills the other attacking bay). If your enemy successfully defends one, they cannot immidietly port to the other keep. they will have to run (or swim) back. this causes them to make a tactical decision on what to defend first!!! if they had to ability to instantly port back WvW would be ruined imo.

So basically, in order to get golems, we have to escort dolyaks to our keeps all day long in order to have enough supply in the keep to afford a golem, then, after we got our omega built, the keep is wide open for an attack due to being starved of supplies?

Great idea, really, I’m glad, you are not a part of Anets development team.

Alex Caputo.7863:

Secondly, auto-loot if WvW or anywhere in gw2 will not work. what happens when your bag is full? will you have pop ups all over your screen during a zerg fight to decide which look you want to take?

Then the bag drops to your feet just like it is now, problem solved.

1. Isn’t that bad takes a long time to auto attack a level 2 gate down no matter your numbers…2. I can see your point…3. Bad idea golems aren’t antipersonnel seige they are meant to take keeps especially when you have nothing… 4. Autoloot won’t work due to how rng is applied and other things but aoe loot yes plox

Q1: I like the idea of no player damage on the gates and have been thinking about this for a little while now. But if player damage is taken out, I would suspect that groups would just turn to ranged seige to remain out of range of defenders. One suggestion might be to have multi-person rams. Allow up to five player to use the ram with increased damage for each player on the ram (maybe 1K additional damage per player on ram with base damage beginning at 4-5K?). Or another option for multi-person rams would be that the first person to access the Ram becomes the lead. The leader initiates the attack and the damage is based off how close all 5 are actually hitting the attack button/key.

Q2: YES, keep WP active until inner wall/gate is being seiged. This will allow for people to get in and defend.

Q3: No, keep Qolem blueprints in. Nothing worse than building one and have to run it from Garrison/Cit/OL to where it is needed without a few mezmers around. The idea of putting a Qolem into the build que is a great idea though. As Evernessince mentioned, I would be all for a defense Qolem or 5 option.

Q4: Loot bags already drop at your feet and all you have to do is click ‘H’. Really can’t get much easier. Jumping back and forth between PVE and WvW, I must say I like the WvW lootbag system better.

Some additions for seige equipment might also be:
Standard Ram - Current Ram
Top Cover Ram - A ram that will allow up to 5 players to use, players cannot be targeted with direct fire skills. Only ground targed AOE skills will effect users (and not those on the top of the cover, must be on the ground). Defenders can destroy the cover gaining access to players.
Quick Deploy Ram - A single person ram that is smaller and lighter than the current Ram. Only uses 15 supply and does maybe 1/5th the damage of the current ram. Can also be moved short distances at the speed a golem would move.

Cata/Treb Shot: Create a drop-down on 4 to pick type of shot.
Single Rock - Small area damage, best against walls/gates. Shorter duration between shots. Create craters on the ground for 5-10secs slowing players moving through.
Flame Shoot - AOE Burn damage. Moderate damage with 5-10sec AOE burn damage in area. Not dispellable.
Poison - AOE Poison damage. Light to Moderate damage with 5-10sec Poison. The longer a player stays in it, the more damage it will begin to do.
Gravel Shot - Light damage over a wide area. Inflicts bleeds on players hit and disrupt opponents siege for 1-2secs.
Player Shot - Load 1-3 players into the basket and fire them over a wall. Great for when bored and want to launch a few people into the lake or over a wall. Recommend that you aim for water, but a few people splattered up against the Tower/Keep wall might be interesting also. Typical Fall damage!

naphack.9346:

So basically, in order to get golems, we have to escort dolyaks to our keeps all day long in order to have enough supply in the keep to afford a golem, then, after we got our omega built, the keep is wide open for an attack due to being starved of supplies?

Great idea, really, I’m glad, you are not a part of Anets development team.

If you’re managing your upgrades and building properly you should never be out of supply in the event of an attack. So it sounds like the best solution for your point of view would be to just remove yaks and supply completely since they’re a waste of time, make all objectives automatically fully-upgraded and everybody just runs from placed to place fighting……have you tried SPvP? Might be more up your alley.

Dodforer.2470:

naphack.9346:

So basically, in order to get golems, we have to escort dolyaks to our keeps all day long in order to have enough supply in the keep to afford a golem, then, after we got our omega built, the keep is wide open for an attack due to being starved of supplies?

Great idea, really, I’m glad, you are not a part of Anets development team.

If you’re managing your upgrades and building properly you should never be out of supply in the event of an attack. So it sounds like the best solution for your point of view would be to just remove yaks and supply completely since they’re a waste of time, make all objectives automatically fully-upgraded and everybody just runs from placed to place fighting……have you tried SPvP? Might be more up your alley.

Ever been in a situation, where an enemy server systematically starved your keep?
If you weren’t, please don’t talk. Supply in a keep is not infinite, nor is it a given that Dolyaks will get through to your keep, especially on EU servers, where coverage tends to be pretty unstable.
Holding a keep without supplies and getting upgraded is not much of a problem, but golems are typically assembled at supplycamps for a good reason. It doesn’t starve your server of supplies, if you build them at various supply camps and portal them to your keep.

Alex Caputo.7863:

There is a problem with your system. First of all i do not necessarily agree with your approach to golems. If a server constantly gets there garrison wipped before it can fully upgrade, this means they will not even have the option to get golems. Secondly, auto-loot if WvW or anywhere in gw2 will not work. what happens when your bag is full? will you have pop ups all over your screen during a zerg fight to decide which look you want to take? And lastly, they contest the waypoints for good reason. If you split your forces on the WvW map (one force attacking hills the other attacking bay). If your enemy successfully defends one, they cannot immidietly port to the other keep. they will have to run (or swim) back. this causes them to make a tactical decision on what to defend first!!! if they had to ability to instantly port back WvW would be ruined imo.

So a magical portal capable of transporting you across vast distances instantaneously should stop working just because someone is picking fights with guards or knocking on walls and gate?

Your concept of tactical decisions is moot when you have say 80 people on your side and each opposing force has 80, you’re automatically outnumbered 2-1. You also seem to be assuming that just by being in one place they will destroy an attacking force in nothing flat and immediately portal to the other facility and do the same there. It takes time to defend against a siege, time in which the other opposing team is still attacking the other facility, it’s not immediately decided like some board game based on the roll of dice and how many points you have in forces.

If a map has taken the time to keep their facilities safe and upgrade them they should benefit from being able to use what they’ve built, with the caveat that once an opposing force is attacking inner there should be a contested period.

naphack.9346:

Dodforer.2470:

naphack.9346:

So basically, in order to get golems, we have to escort dolyaks to our keeps all day long in order to have enough supply in the keep to afford a golem, then, after we got our omega built, the keep is wide open for an attack due to being starved of supplies?

Great idea, really, I’m glad, you are not a part of Anets development team.

If you’re managing your upgrades and building properly you should never be out of supply in the event of an attack. So it sounds like the best solution for your point of view would be to just remove yaks and supply completely since they’re a waste of time, make all objectives automatically fully-upgraded and everybody just runs from placed to place fighting……have you tried SPvP? Might be more up your alley.

Ever been in a situation, where an enemy server systematically starved your keep?
If you weren’t, please don’t talk. Supply in a keep is not infinite, nor is it a given that Dolyaks will get through to your keep, especially on EU servers, where coverage tends to be pretty unstable.
Holding a keep without supplies and getting upgraded is not much of a problem, but golems are typically assembled at supplycamps for a good reason. It doesn’t starve your server of supplies, if you build them at various supply camps and portal them to your keep.

Lol, maybe you’ve never fought DB or Mag. They’re constantly working on supply denial. Been in that situation plenty, so yes, I can speak for it. Again, yet another person that probably never escorted a yak or simply stood watch in a camp or tower just to provide early warning. Unstable coverage isn’t isolated to EU so don’t act like you suffer from something nobody else does or that’s it’s more prevalent on yours than others. YB is typically out-manned about 60% of the time and barely on parity the other 40%. Can’t say we’ve ever actually out-manned the opposing forces. As the tiers have leveled out we’ve all been through this at some point or another. If your server is having problems holding onto things then maybe you should spend less time zerging around trading objectives with the opposing forces and actually try to defend and hold what points you have. I’m not saying you’re not trying to do this, but if you are and still not having luck maybe change how you’re doing it.

I feel like I’m talking to a wall…
Or like you don’t want to understand, what others are saying anyway. Well, I’m out of this conversation. Waste of time.

Riceak.2806:

Q1: I like the idea of no player damage on the gates and have been thinking about this for a little while now. But if player damage is taken out, I would suspect that groups would just turn to ranged seige to remain out of range of defenders. One suggestion might be to have multi-person rams. Allow up to five player to use the ram with increased damage for each player on the ram (maybe 1K additional damage per player on ram with base damage beginning at 4-5K?). Or another option for multi-person rams would be that the first person to access the Ram becomes the lead. The leader initiates the attack and the damage is based off how close all 5 are actually hitting the attack button/key.

Q2: YES, keep WP active until inner wall/gate is being seiged. This will allow for people to get in and defend.

Q3: No, keep Qolem blueprints in. Nothing worse than building one and have to run it from Garrison/Cit/OL to where it is needed without a few mezmers around. The idea of putting a Qolem into the build que is a great idea though. As Evernessince mentioned, I would be all for a defense Qolem or 5 option.

Q4: Loot bags already drop at your feet and all you have to do is click ‘H’. Really can’t get much easier. Jumping back and forth between PVE and WvW, I must say I like the WvW lootbag system better.

Some additions for seige equipment might also be:
Standard Ram - Current Ram
Top Cover Ram - A ram that will allow up to 5 players to use, players cannot be targeted with direct fire skills. Only ground targed AOE skills will effect users (and not those on the top of the cover, must be on the ground). Defenders can destroy the cover gaining access to players.
Quick Deploy Ram - A single person ram that is smaller and lighter than the current Ram. Only uses 15 supply and does maybe 1/5th the damage of the current ram. Can also be moved short distances at the speed a golem would move.

Cata/Treb Shot: Create a drop-down on 4 to pick type of shot.
Single Rock - Small area damage, best against walls/gates. Shorter duration between shots. Create craters on the ground for 5-10secs slowing players moving through.
Flame Shoot - AOE Burn damage. Moderate damage with 5-10sec AOE burn damage in area. Not dispellable.
Poison - AOE Poison damage. Light to Moderate damage with 5-10sec Poison. The longer a player stays in it, the more damage it will begin to do.
Gravel Shot - Light damage over a wide area. Inflicts bleeds on players hit and disrupt opponents siege for 1-2secs.
Player Shot - Load 1-3 players into the basket and fire them over a wall. Great for when bored and want to launch a few people into the lake or over a wall. Recommend that you aim for water, but a few people splattered up against the Tower/Keep wall might be interesting also. Typical Fall damage!

I like idea of multi-person siege and incremental damage increase and the single person ram. There are even real world examples of smaller catapults which could be used only as anti-personnel with no damage capable against walls or gates. Instead of throwing large boulders they could have Fire, Gravel and Poison like the other options you listed.

The current problem with the looting in WvW is most people are constantly in motion and by the time you see the notice you’re moving out of range to pick up. If you’re in a relatively small group or smaller group than you’re facing and slowly retreating back all your bags get left behind with the only other option left to try and move forward and get your bags only to die before you can get it and it despawns before you can rez and get back to it.

As for the Player Shot, Lol, I would love to try it. Just like the Cowapult in the PvE Ascalon zone.

Completely agree with items 1 and 2.

They would allow and encourage a more defensive game for we who don’t just like to roam in an army for our own protection and feel futile doing any defence against masses of enemy who just melt doors or walls and swarm over you.

4 (autolooting) would be very handy in fall-back actions where the bags and chests get left behind. I DO like that some nearby loot bags DO sometimes follow you back to a waypoint if you rally after defeat.

Some of the suggestions for new siege equipment would add some interesting wrinkles to the game, so long as it’s not overpowering. (player flinger SOUNDS hilarious, loved the Cattlepult once it was fixed ). Recall how much fun the flaming pumpkins were around Halloween

a catapult that can fling people…

Or how bout one that stealthily throws rocks?

Serophous.9085:

a catapult that can fling people…

Or how bout one that stealthily throws rocks?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwZidG3Mcpk

Stealth rocks….wrapped in bubble wrap? Think that would lower the damage though…