Guild Wars 2

Basically this.

Anyone can pve their way to get a Commander Manual without having any experience in PVP and go into PVP having everyone think they’re a battle hardened veteran when they’ve not faced the horrors of player versus player and lead entire teams to their death.

Commander Manuals should cost Glory or some other form of PVP currency as a testament of how much time you’ve invested into it and as a measure of your understanding of battle tactics vs actual players and not AI.

/signed
/agree

little thought was put into how things are acquired in the game. It’s evident with commander book being purchased via gold instead of Battle tokens or Glory.

Never glory , simply because WvW is not SPvP, and it would be really stupid to join both , but i agree they should be measured on something you get by doing WvW a lot , like the tokens (which also prove little , i mean i spam AoE on my ele and get many without learning anything , still better than gold i guess).

Should be unlocked with certain WvW achievements or something.

I have to agree with that. Although I do stink some at wvw and pvp I do tend to get in a few kills FLEX and I think the commander title should be a reward of working in both instead of any Tom, Dick or Harry (as my grandfather used to say) the ability to buy it and have it. I’ve followed some commanders just because they had the commander title and lets just say some of those individuals really didn’t need to carry it. So I agree with Rizzy and support this message

Kana.6793:

Should be unlocked with certain WvW achievements or something.

I agree with this.

Same, should be tied to a WvW-based achievement. And a fairly big one at that.

Existent people get another title in return for having the book learned, ideally with some fancy prestige item, old-style rank markers for the shoulders or something.

I think a WvW based achievement would be great.

I have the gold to buy things, but I have 0 experience leading WvW as I am primarily a PvE (I just follow directions). I wouldn’t buy the commander title, to just draw people to me when I have little idea what i’m doing. It does seem wrong that I can though, and that anyone who just wants another status symbol can significantly hurt their team in WvW if they chose to flaunt it around.

It seems to be much more logical to generate commanders from the ranks of those actually experienced in WvW.

Of course allow the current commanders to keep their title, or strip it and refund the gold.

I agree.

I wish this was P2P game. Sucks that everything revolves around the Cash shop, they wont change the way it works because money = gem = gold = commander. Where if it was p2p then it would be ‘x achievement’ + ‘this and that’ = commander.

I only agree if they strip commander from everyone who has gotten it so far and refund them their 100g back. I’m getting tired of seeing changes that favor people who rushed to the end early. There would be nothing fair about having 300-400 commanders who bought their way to their position and then forcing everyone who comes after them to work their fingers to the bone in WvW to get the same thing.

Tolmos.8395:

I only agree if they strip commander from everyone who has gotten it so far and refund them their 100g back. I’m getting tired of seeing changes that favor people who rushed to the end early. There would be nothing fair about having 300-400 commanders who bought their way to their position and then forcing everyone who comes after them to work their fingers to the bone in WvW to get the same thing.

I agree, the whole “buying convenience items only” has gotten out of control with the gems = gold scenario. Is it a convenience buying gems to get 100g? Even more to the point, why does money play a role in PvP? How does gold make one a good commander? Deep pockets = skilled player?

ANet is constantly back peddling on what they have said for the all mighty dollar. I rather pay a flat fee per month to have the same level of fairness of those who have disposable income.

We all spend the same, and we all work for the same. Not “I paid 200 dollars and I deserve this!”

The other side to consider is that extensive experience participating in content doesn’t make one a leader, either.

Leadership cannot be purchased, it can only be demonstrated. Leaders will make themselves known through their actions. The blue blip on the map is a tool, nothing more. You can unlock that blip through PvP, WvW, random loot in a Black Lion chest, or for spending a large sum of money and it won’t be related in any way to your qualifications when it comes to leading people.

I went into this thread thinking it was going to be a whine about it costing too much or its not fair you “have” to pve to get a comannder’s manual but what you say makes a lot of sense.

/agree

Fildydarie.1496:

The other side to consider is that extensive experience participating in content doesn’t make one a leader, either.

Leadership cannot be purchased, it can only be demonstrated. Leaders will make themselves known through their actions. The blue blip on the map is a tool, nothing more. You can unlock that blip through PvP, WvW, random loot in a Black Lion chest, or for spending a large sum of money and it won’t be related in any way to your qualifications when it comes to leading people.

So you buy the game, unlock weapon skills and jump into WvW. You have no guild, no friends, but whats this? A blue blip? I must need to go here.

Now you know blue blip is an idiot, and now you ignore blue blips – Great feature.

@Nappychappy: I’m not sure I understand. My point was that it doesn’t matter how you acquire your blip, it doesn’t make you a leader. Your words make it sound like you agree with me, but your tone does otherwise.

To elaborate on my earlier point:
Do you get your blip for WvW activities? I’ve participated in every type of activity there is to think of, but it doesn’t make me a qualified leader.
Do you get it for PvP activities? PvP and WvW are totally different beasts. Small-group combat and king-of-the-hill does nothing to prepare you for defending a keep in a siege.
Gold is just as valid as either of these solutions, possibly better, becasue gold, unlike a passive unlock for accumulated experience, requires sacrifice—you have to want it to get it. It doesn’t mean you are qualified, but neither does anything else.
Changing the currency to WvW badges changes nothing—how many people sit on the walls of Stonemist and just bombard an area to farm badges—this is no more an indicator of leadership qualification than any other loot-based currency.
The “best” solution would be to elect your server’s commanders, but look at the US government and tell me that elections result in the best people getting the job and make everybody happy with their leaders.

Nappychappy.7046:

Tolmos.8395:

I only agree if they strip commander from everyone who has gotten it so far and refund them their 100g back. I’m getting tired of seeing changes that favor people who rushed to the end early. There would be nothing fair about having 300-400 commanders who bought their way to their position and then forcing everyone who comes after them to work their fingers to the bone in WvW to get the same thing.

I agree, the whole “buying convenience items only” has gotten out of control with the gems = gold scenario. Is it a convenience buying gems to get 100g? Even more to the point, why does money play a role in PvP? How does gold make one a good commander? Deep pockets = skilled player?

ANet is constantly back peddling on what they have said for the all mighty dollar. I rather pay a flat fee per month to have the same level of fairness of those who have disposable income.

We all spend the same, and we all work for the same. Not “I paid 200 dollars and I deserve this!”

You are mistaking Gemstore with RMT

There’s no new money created with gemstore.
Someone who spend 200$ to get 100gold get the 100gold of some people who buy gems with their gold.
So the guy with disposable income is only getting the gold of someone else, who in turn get his gems.

RMT bot gold and sell it. They create massive amount of brand new gold. This reduce its value. Which make gem to gold even less appealing because it doesn’t follow the gold value. It follow the offer and demand of gem only.

RMT is also in every popular games, P2P or not. Even if you decide to ignore it, it is there and they are what you are complaining about.

Rate of gold is currently 10gold for $4.5
you get about 5.6gold for $10 with gems right now. And it is gold from another player who bought gems for himself, not the gold from a nude ranger bot named jhasgdfadsgf

Nappychappy.7046:

I wish this was P2P game. Sucks that everything revolves around the Cash shop, they wont change the way it works because money = gem = gold = commander. Where if it was p2p then it would be ‘x achievement’ + ‘this and that’ = commander.

So then it is pay to play?
(It’s very easy to get 100g without needing to buy gems, btw )

No new money no, but it’s slowly draining the economy. It’s not a person to person transaction, it’s 100’s of people buying gems, and one person buying the gold. The rich keep getting richer. However I don’t care about the rich getting richer, it’s the fact that they can buy things that have no right being sold. Commander should be something earned by other means, ones that show you know your kitten in WvW or PvE.

Carighan.6758:

Nappychappy.7046:

I wish this was P2P game. Sucks that everything revolves around the Cash shop, they wont change the way it works because money = gem = gold = commander. Where if it was p2p then it would be ‘x achievement’ + ‘this and that’ = commander.

So then it is pay to play?
(It’s very easy to get 100g without needing to buy gems, btw )

Pay 2 play, in a B2P game is pretty kitten close to Pay 2 Win.

Any ways, I am not complaining about how to make gold, my problem with this is you can simply buy it, and not earn it. I’d like to see you make 100g in WvW, actually participating in WvW, not playing PvE, or the Trading Post. For PvE, who cares, but it has no place in PvP/WvW.

@Nappy: It doesn’t matter how many people buy the gems—it oculd be one or hundreds, gold actually leaves the economy this way (the purchase prices is more than the seller receives, jsut like the TP takes a cut on every transaction). Similarly, it doesn’t matter how many people sell the gems,either, from an economics standpoint.

You seem to insist that this is the only way to earn 100g, and that somehow being a commander gives you an advantage over other people. These are both false; my wife is closing in on 70g, and she’s only level 63 on her main with far less time played than I have. She has actualyl spent gold on buying gems before, never the other way around.

I don’t disagree that it would be nice if the only commanders that exist knew their stuff, but this is the crux of the problem: how do you differentiate a good elader from a bad one? This is a determination that can only be made by the community, not the game engine.

I don’t care how many vacant keeps you raid, zergs where you contribute nothing but your presence, or bots you slaughter—none of these would ever be considered the makings of a good leader. From the game’s perspective, these are the equivalent of coordinating a siege, organizing a large group as you strike at key points and lead the enemy into ambushes, and waging a successful campaign. The game will never know the difference, so the game cannot determine who is and who is not “real commander” material. A massive gold sink at least asks people to sacrifice something of value—it limits the field to people that really want it. Lacking a means of filtering out people that are bad leaders, it is about the best we can hope for.

Gold leaves the economy yes, but gold should NOT buy rank. You should earn it in PvP by doing PvP related things. Not gained by spending a “trivial” amount of gold. If you take the time to earn commander and you suck at it, then that is your loss, but when you just buy commander and suck at it, that is our loss.

Again, I don’t care about making gold, but being able to obtain commander with gold.

Nappy, I get it, but you’re missing the point. There is absolutely no way for the game to tell who is a leader and who is a follower. All of the alternatives simply shift the focus from gold to another currency, which has the exact same problem.

Glory? Unrelated to skill in WvW.
WvW Badges? Unrelated to skill in WvW.
Dungeon badges? Unrelated to skill in WvW.
Karma? Unrelated to skill in WvW.
Gold? Unrelated to skill in WvW.
Achievements / Titles? Unrelated to skill in WvW.

All of these could be earned by either leaders or followers, or inept leaders, or anybody at all. What is the difference between spending 100g and sucking at being commander and farming 1000 WvW badges and sucking at being commander? Nothing. The problem of commander inherently being little more than a status symbol hasn’t changed. It doesn’t matter what the threshold for acquiring it is, it doesn’t matter what verb you use, the path to it and the effects on the community are the same.

the problem is 100 gold isn’t that expensive(anymore) A-net should keep raising the cost(maybe depending on the amount of commanders, the avaible gold in the game, etc) the original thought was, only a guild that has power can collect 100gold and because it’s that expensive, only the most qualified will get it! but loads of people who just play the market got it for the lulz(to say it in a hip way ;D)

Only into PvE but I agree with this.

Rizzy.8293:

Basically this.

Anyone can pve their way to get a Commander Manual without having any experience in PVP and go into PVP having everyone think they’re a battle hardened veteran when they’ve not faced the horrors of player versus player and lead entire teams to their death.

Commander Manuals should cost Glory or some other form of PVP currency as a testament of how much time you’ve invested into it and as a measure of your understanding of battle tactics vs actual players and not AI.

Lawl have it cost like 10k honor badges.

I don’t think this should be achievement based, otherwise anyone who spends enough time in WvW will have one eventually. Players who want the commander icon should need the support of other players on the server. The easiest way to do something like this would be to have a petition where something like 100 players need to sign it in order for the player to get the commander icon. I suppose it could still be bought (paying players for signatures), but it would require a lot more work.

the title should only be unlocked from a combination of all the WvW achievements. It has to be high too.

That way people have to play WvW and hopefully learn how WvW works.

It shouldn’t be bought with any gold, karma, or badges… you don’t have do WvW do get those.

Only WvW achievements can get you the commander title.

Also, add title ranks in WvW that everyone can see. Above, or below their name. That will give people more incentive to play WvW to get titles. The titles could be like military ranks.

Maybe even unlock different armor/weapon skins the higher you rank.

And the title system all together needs to be like gw1 where people can see others title without clicking on a person’s name.

No, it works fine for gold. Commanders are useful *OUTSIDE* of WvW. They do great in meta-event zergs.

Besides, people know who to follow, and if you don’t, it’s because you shouldn’t, because nobody wants you to.

OmegaAlpha.9086:

Also, add title ranks in WvW that everyone can see. Above, or below their name. That will give people more incentive to play WvW to get titles.

And the title system all together needs to be like gw1 where people can see others title without clicking on a person’s name.

I agree with this 100%. Titles are almost meaningless right now because you can’t see them unless you click on the player. That makes them less desirable, so people have less of an incentive to acquire them. Not only that, it makes it really difficult to compare yourself to other players. And let’s be honest, people like comparing themselves to others.

We don’t need bigger nameplates cluttering the already massively cluttered screen just so you can feel special. If you want to feel special, get out of WvW, and go to real PvP where people will see your name, followed by a screen showing exactly which of your skills killed them.

Nels the Cornwhisperer.8025:

We don’t need bigger nameplates cluttering the already massively cluttered screen just so you can feel special. If you want to feel special, get out of WvW, and go to real PvP where people will see your name, followed by a screen showing exactly which of your skills killed them.

What is this nonsense? I was talking about the game, in general. Take your outrage elsewhere.

In the game, in general, nobody can even see you. You’re invisible unless they wait around and hope you show up in a city, and nobody’s paying attention to anyone else in any zone.

How do you get 100 gold anyway?

Nels the Cornwhisperer.8025:

In the game, in general, nobody can even see you. You’re invisible unless they wait around and hope you show up in a city, and nobody’s paying attention to anyone else in any zone.

Your argument is that players are invisible…okay…I’m sure ArenaNet will totally agree with your position here. Good one.

Shostie, the engine doesn’t render people half the time, and so yes, people are invisible. If you haven’t noticed this, you’re either on an empty server, or not paying attention.

Nels the Cornwhisperer.8025:

Shostie, the engine doesn’t render people half the time, and so yes, people are invisible. If you haven’t noticed this, you’re either on an empty server, or not paying attention.

So your argument shifts, now players are only invisible half of the time?

This is only an issue in a few areas of the game. Throughout most of the world, players do not experience this. That said, it’s silly to make a design decision (on something like titles) based upon this undesirable phenomenon. Your argument is a non-starter. There’s not even anything to refute. Using your reasoning, why even have armor graphics? Why have legendary weapons? No one will ever see them.

They need guild commander option that costs influence so you can actually form large groups with your guilds.

I disagree first of all wvw is considered pve it has jumping puzzles and access to racial elites. in my server all the commanders except 2 is doing very well. i don’t think anyone pay 100g to get this cool blue dot in minimap they do it because they love wvw and they make a huge difference on the battlefield even when not particulary skilled.

I was thinking about this 100g thing as well. I’ve found that two commanders I’ve worked with do truly deserve the title. They are the leaders of two really large WvW guilds, and they tell all of us what to do and where to go. They possess the leadership skills. However, I can’t say that that’s the case everywhere.

I think the easiest way for ANet would be to a combination of WvW achievements, rather than just paying your way to the title.

A more complicated way, that may or may not work or be supported, would maybe be some kind of nomination system? I don’t really know how this would work, but I’m sure players see somebody’s who doing a good job taking charge in WvW would be willing to nominate that individual to receive a free commander manual.

They could just add in party leaders and build it from there. Have some kind of WvWvW related achievements tied to the leader position, with enough of those achievements making you eligible for some kind of public vote for a Commander title. Throw in a similar system for the voters and voila, you have a situation where a Commander title means you have been a party leader in a significant amount of WvWvW combat and that there’s a significant number of seasoned WvWvW people who want you to have a Commander title.

I think some people call that a … “democracy”, is it?

Agrees with this Totally.

You can see your own armor to look cool. You can’t really see your own title, because you can’t see your own nameplate.

I think they should have the title cost more than just gold. Here’s an example:

• Gold
• Karma
• WvW tokens
• Requires you to have some WvW achievements

/disagree

I personally purchased the title strictly to help others during meta and other difficult events in PvE. I’m a PvE player and that’s all I love doing. I don’t think I’ll ever play WvW aside from earning monthly, therefor I don’t find this thread’s argument to be very fair to others who also want to utilize squads in PvE.

People are forgetting that COMMANDER is also intended to be used in PvE, doing Epic Raids and Dynamic Events.

The 100g is just fine and does not need a change. And it is fair and right to allow anyone an equally opportunity to be a leader if they spend 100g for the book. As a player, you have the choice to follow the commander or not.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Commander-Status-1/first#post604717

It is the commander system that needs to be adjusted. And I feel that through Actions and Public Support, commanders are allowed to maintain their title as per the suggestion above.