Copyright/TM Misconceptions and the GW2 Naming policy

Copyright/TM Misconceptions and the GW2 Naming policy

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Posted by: thetreebranch.4831

thetreebranch.4831

Hello,

I’d like to voice my concern on what is in my opinion, an overly harsh and conservative policy. Either there is a fundamental misunderstanding of US copyright and trademark law, or these rules were meant to be a catch all and agents have not been trained well enough to weed out the acceptable vs. unacceptable names. My concerns cover the following bullets:
- Reference religious or historical figures.
- Reference real-life people.
- Reference names of copyrighted or trademarked characters, materials, or products.
- Use misspellings or alternative spellings of names that violate any of the above rules.

The issue here is names are not copyrightable. From www.copyright.gov, copyrights are “a form of intellectual property law, protects original works of authorship including literary, dramatic, musical, and artistic works, such as poetry, novels, movies, songs, computer software, and architecture. Copyright does not protect facts, ideas, systems, or methods of operation, although it may protect the way these things are expressed.”

Names, titles, slogans, and short phrases are not copyrightable. Band names are not copyrightable, yet I’ve seen people temporarily banned and asked to rename their character because it was named after Led Zeppelin. (Sources, please see: http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-protect.html#band , and additional bullets below this anchor).

Thus, the rule that we can’t reference copyrighted characters is IMPOSSIBLE to break because you can’t legally copyright a character name.

This brings me to the next point, which is Trademark law. From the uspto website, a trademark is defined as “a word, phrase, symbol, or design, or combination thereof, that identifies and distinguishes the source of the goods of one party from those of others.”

A trademark only protects the owners right against infringement on related goods or services. IE, the company Apple has a trademark on the name and logo with regard to software/hardware goods and services. They can’t however claim trademark protection over apple the food, or any business not related to their company. Trademarks are intended to protect business from companies misleading customers by offering a similar product or service in the same field.

There is also the “fair use” defense with regard to Trademarked names. For instance, people can reference Apple the company in articles, blogs, etc.

Due to the above, its clear that even if a name is trademarked, a company cannot sue a player of Guild Wars 2 for a trademark violation for having a character reference said mark, as they are not related products and services. A character named “Apple Computers” is not in the same field/business of the actual company Apple.

The intent of the rules as I understand it is to prevent vulgar and inappropriate names, as well as prevent defamation of character (so no names like Obama Sucks). As written though, I think the rules are overreaching and are leading to many bans on names that would be legally fine.

The slap in the face comes when throughout the game, I see references to real world people and events. It’s very blatant in places, especially in Guild Wars 1 where one of the skill names is “Smooth Criminal”, a song by Michael Jackson with an icon relating to the reference.

Please reconsider the naming policy and reword it in such a way that still prevents libel, slander, and other vulgar content, but allows users to still make creative/witty names and references. Fair use and laws regarding satire should be taken into consideration.

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Posted by: Dibrom.6408

Dibrom.6408

Names are sure as ‘heck’ trademarkable. I don’t care what copymelucky.com says.

Real life examples:
Gmail in UK is Googlemail (up until recently)
O magazine in germany
Resident Evil in USA (its name is actually BIOHAZARD)
i-anything (Apple gonna sue you)
Detective Conan in USA

Arenanet: The paragon of truth.

(edited by Dibrom.6408)

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Posted by: AndrewWaltfeld.4621

AndrewWaltfeld.4621

Sadly, companies are sue happy when concerned about names. They are indeed copyrighted with attached with a franchise. The terms are a broad to ensure that it properly protects Anet.

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Posted by: thetreebranch.4831

thetreebranch.4831

Dibrom.6408

Names are sure as ‘heck’ trademarkable. I don’t care what copymelucky.com says.

Real life examples:
Gmail in UK is Googlemail (up until recently)
O magazine in germany
Resident Evil in USA (its name is actually BIOHAZARD)
i-anything (Apple gonna sue you)
Detective Conan in USA

There is a difference between copyright and trademark. And you better care what copyright.gov says because that is the US Copyright Office. I’m not sure what a better source for copyright law would be.

Names are not copyrightable. That’s right from the source. Names are trademarkable. Every name you mentioned in your post is a trademark, not a copyright.

Two related but fundamentally different rights, with different protections attached. Trademarks only protect products and services in the same field. You can’t have two tech companies by the name of “Apple”, but you could have a tech company and a grocery store with that name.

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Posted by: Dibrom.6408

Dibrom.6408

Read my post. There is a difference between copyright and trademark. And you better care what copyright.gov says because that is the US Copyright Office. I’m not sure what a better source for copyright law would be.

Names are not copyrightable. That’s right from the source. Names are trademarkable. Every name you mentioned in your post is a trademark, not a copyright.

Two related but fundamentally different rights, with different protections attached. Trademarks only protect products and services in the same field. You can’t have two tech companies by the name of “Apple”, but you could have a tech company and a grocery store with that name.

OH REALLY?!

Maybe that’s why I said they were TRADEMARKable and didn’t mention copyright in my post. Thanks for the correction. What would I do without your overwhelming intellect to guide me?

Yeah, it’s not like Apple would sue the polish grocery “a.pl”
They’re not under the same product field, it’s the LAW!
Oh… http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/apl-apple-grocery-store_n_1873264.html

Arenanet: The paragon of truth.

(edited by Dibrom.6408)

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Posted by: mulch.2586

mulch.2586

Policies about names in-game are ruled by the terms of service and user agreement.

Really doesn’t matter what US law says, or any other country’s law. ANet has decided on a particular set of rules. It’s a bit too late, since 2 million of us have already named our characters to go about making fundamental changes in the names policy.

Fact is, if no one reports your name, you’ll be fine whatever you’ve chosen. Personally I only report names if the person attracts my attention negatively with it.

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Posted by: Esham.4203

Esham.4203

The thing is everything YOU do in game is a liability to Anet.

So they make the rules to avoid getting any attention from copyright/trademark lawyers.

Also copyright is very different in the USA than the rest of the world.

Don’t be so naive to think that USA laws trump the world as they dont…… yet

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Posted by: Jia Shen.4217

Jia Shen.4217

The OP has a valid point about trademarks. Trademark violation has to do with marketing ones products or services as if they come from said trademark that belongs to someone else. Naming a character in a game using a trademarked name is not a trademark violation. However that does not mean that arenanet can’t have a rule again naming characters in that way. But the rule is not there because they think naming a character that way is a trademark violation. It is there because they really want people to have appropriate names. Their naming policy is rather conservative as they could have made it so that every character must have a fantasy style name or worse lore fitting fantasy style name. After all it would be appropriate to name characters with fantasy style names. Almost nobody wants to see someone named Ipwnyou. But they know if they make the rules so that you can only use fantasy style names that they would lose sales. So the compromise is to restrict the most likely to receive hefty complaints about even if some of those complaints are rather silly and baseless. If it were up to me the rules for all games would be that the names are genre appropriate so that they are actually names and not phrases or other such nonsense.

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Posted by: thetreebranch.4831

thetreebranch.4831

Dibrom.6408

OH REALLY?!

Maybe that’s why I said they were TRADEMARKable and didn’t mention copyright in my post. Thanks for the correction. What would I do without your overwhelming intellect to guide me?

Yeah, it’s not like Apple would sue the polish grocery “a.pl”
They’re not under the same product field, it’s the LAW!
Oh… http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/apl-apple-grocery-store_n_1873264.html

You can start a suit for a lot of things…doesn’t mean you’ll win.

mulch.2586

Policies about names in-game are ruled by the terms of service and user agreement.

Really doesn’t matter what US law says, or any other country’s law. ANet has decided on a particular set of rules. It’s a bit too late, since 2 million of us have already named our characters to go about making fundamental changes in the names policy.

Fact is, if no one reports your name, you’ll be fine whatever you’ve chosen. Personally I only report names if the person attracts my attention negatively with it.

Which is why I’m asking Arenanet to reconsider. It would be nice to have clarification as to why that clause is in there rules when legally, it doesn’t matter.

Esham.4203

The thing is everything YOU do in game is a liability to Anet.

So they make the rules to avoid getting any attention from copyright/trademark lawyers.

Also copyright is very different in the USA than the rest of the world.

Don’t be so naive to think that USA laws trump the world as they dont…… yet

Arenanet is headquarted in the United States, and its servers are placed in the United States. Therefore, they are under jurisdiction of US law. If one had to abide by every law in the world, there would be very little we could do in this world.

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Posted by: mulch.2586

mulch.2586

I still don’t see what could possibly be wrong with the way they launched it.

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Posted by: Treize.7026

Treize.7026

Read my post. There is a difference between copyright and trademark. And you better care what copyright.gov says because that is the US Copyright Office. I’m not sure what a better source for copyright law would be.

Names are not copyrightable. That’s right from the source. Names are trademarkable. Every name you mentioned in your post is a trademark, not a copyright.

Two related but fundamentally different rights, with different protections attached. Trademarks only protect products and services in the same field. You can’t have two tech companies by the name of “Apple”, but you could have a tech company and a grocery store with that name.

OH REALLY?!

Maybe that’s why I said they were TRADEMARKable and didn’t mention copyright in my post. Thanks for the correction. What would I do without your overwhelming intellect to guide me?

Yeah, it’s not like Apple would sue the polish grocery “a.pl”
They’re not under the same product field, it’s the LAW!
Oh… http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/apl-apple-grocery-store_n_1873264.html

First of all, just because Apple sues someone doesn’t make whatever their target did automatically illegal. I’m not sure how the legal system works in your country, but we’re not quite to the point where companies can dictate their own laws in the US. (Ok stop laughing).

Anyway another key point in that article is this wasn’t just some mom and pop corner store, it’s an online business. I’m no expert on copyright law, but that combined with their logo which is an obvious imitation seems to make this issue a little more complicated than you are implying.

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Posted by: Jestunhi.7429

Jestunhi.7429

Doesn’t matter what the legal position is.

GW2 is not public property. it’s privately owned and the owner decides what’s acceptable.

It’s like when I see posts about lack of free speech on a privately owned forum…

SoE have finally been knocked off the top spot
in the list of developers I have the least faith & trust in.
Congratulations ArenaNet!

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Posted by: Strifer.3507

Strifer.3507

Hello,

I’d like to voice my concern on what is in my opinion, an overly harsh and conservative policy. Either there is a fundamental misunderstanding of US copyright and trademark law, or these rules were meant to be a catch all and agents have not been trained well enough to weed out the acceptable vs. unacceptable names. My concerns cover the following bullets:
- Reference religious or historical figures.
- Reference real-life people.
- Reference names of copyrighted or trademarked characters, materials, or products.
- Use misspellings or alternative spellings of names that violate any of the above rules.

The issue here is names are not copyrightable. From www.copyright.gov, copyrights are “a form of intellectual property law, protects original works of authorship including literary, dramatic, musical, and artistic works, such as poetry, novels, movies, songs, computer software, and architecture. Copyright does not protect facts, ideas, systems, or methods of operation, although it may protect the way these things are expressed.”

Names, titles, slogans, and short phrases are not copyrightable. Band names are not copyrightable, yet I’ve seen people temporarily banned and asked to rename their character because it was named after Led Zeppelin. (Sources, please see: http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-protect.html#band , and additional bullets below this anchor).

Thus, the rule that we can’t reference copyrighted characters is IMPOSSIBLE to break because you can’t legally copyright a character name.

This brings me to the next point, which is Trademark law. From the uspto website, a trademark is defined as “a word, phrase, symbol, or design, or combination thereof, that identifies and distinguishes the source of the goods of one party from those of others.”

A trademark only protects the owners right against infringement on related goods or services. IE, the company Apple has a trademark on the name and logo with regard to software/hardware goods and services. They can’t however claim trademark protection over apple the food, or any business not related to their company. Trademarks are intended to protect business from companies misleading customers by offering a similar product or service in the same field.

There is also the “fair use” defense with regard to Trademarked names. For instance, people can reference Apple the company in articles, blogs, etc.

Due to the above, its clear that even if a name is trademarked, a company cannot sue a player of Guild Wars 2 for a trademark violation for having a character reference said mark, as they are not related products and services. A character named “Apple Computers” is not in the same field/business of the actual company Apple.

The intent of the rules as I understand it is to prevent vulgar and inappropriate names, as well as prevent defamation of character (so no names like Obama Sucks). As written though, I think the rules are overreaching and are leading to many bans on names that would be legally fine.

The slap in the face comes when throughout the game, I see references to real world people and events. It’s very blatant in places, especially in Guild Wars 1 where one of the skill names is “Smooth Criminal”, a song by Michael Jackson with an icon relating to the reference.

Please reconsider the naming policy and reword it in such a way that still prevents libel, slander, and other vulgar content, but allows users to still make creative/witty names and references. Fair use and laws regarding satire should be taken into consideration.

Could you point us to where Anet says that the reason they have these naming policy in place is to prevent infringement of trademarks (and/or passing off)?

At least, from what I can see at https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-naming-policy/ is this:
“We want Guild Wars 2 to be a safe and fun space for everyone. Guild Wars 2 is a global game, played by people from different countries around the world. People may disagree about what names are offensive and a name that is not offensive to you may be very offensive to another player. When creating a character or guild name for Guild Wars 2, it is encouraged that you select a name that reflects the theme of the game. The guidelines listed below outline the types of names that you can NOT use, and apply to player, character and/or guild names.”

Why make an issue when there is none?

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Posted by: Rizzy.8293

Rizzy.8293

Kilroy…. A STONEKIN!!!!!!

Rodgrot was a man… he was a dragon man… or maybe he was just a dragon!!
RODGORT!! DUN DUN DUN DUNDUNDUN DUN DUNT
Burninating all the peoples something something
And then Rodgort comes in the NIGGGHT!

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Posted by: Rizzy.8293

Rizzy.8293

I still wanna know why i cant make a character named Rizzy