Guild Wars 2

We already have stigmas that players make from research, spreadsheets, and experiance.

I know for a fact that many of them are just WRONG.

Why not add a Total Damage meter in game? The consequences of not having one have been worse, and classes have been downright excluded from content.

I know it will never happen though, because people don’t know the difference between Total Damage and DPS :/

Causse ~95% of the players don’t know how to read a DPS/Total Damage/Heal/Whatever Meter properly and therefor will draw false conclusions. This will do far more damage than those spreadsheets that every now and than appear on the forums cause as an ingame tool it will be accessable for everyone and not just those that are really into reading spreadsheets about character developement.

This is like saying “we already know the police profile, so why not just let them pull over anyone in a hoodie and beat em senseless?”

The solution to a problem is NOT to make it worse… :P

Like players don’t know now witch class/player does most dmg, witch is good with hos class, witch one is in MF gear and so on…

If you have higher DPS you will deal more total damage too. It’s simple math, omg.

Given that the only real “end game goal,” in Guild Wars 2 is improving your own ability/skill at the game, and the only real way to measure your ability at the game is your DPS, I personally feel that a DPS meter is a very necessary addition to the game.

DPS meters will help bad and sub-par players KNOW that they are bad, and thus open their eyes to necessary improvements eventually bringing the “average skill level” of players in the game up. Good players will have a never-ending goal to strive towards improving their DPS.

Right now Guild Wars 2 rewards all players (basically) equally, regardless of how good or bad you are at the game, thus unskilled players never really come to the realization of just how under-par they are, which I find is incredibly detrimental to the future of the game’s community.

Sovta.4719:

Like players don’t know now witch class/player does most dmg, witch is good with hos class, witch one is in MF gear and so on…

I say they treat mf like signets or some special effects in traits in that there’s an icon on the player that says firstly that they have some mf equipped and secondly the %boost (similar to +power/precision found on signets).

Regarding OP, since some ppl are obsessed with little white numbers I don’t think adding a dps ‘meter’ that is only available to you will be detrimental to the game-however the typical partywide meter that we’re used to in archaic gear-is-the-only-thing-that-matters mmorpgs will be a bad addition imo. Quite frankly anything that has the potential to foster the kind of filth we’re all trying to avoid like the plague shouldn’t be directly implemented.

I imagine you’ll get more replies along these lines-of course the protards, little kids who don’t fully understand what a game is and people who need the security of the internet to bash on other people to feel better about themselves will advocate it, but meh

Reikou.7068:

Given that the only real “end game goal,” in Guild Wars 2 is improving your own ability/skill at the game, and the only real way to measure your ability at the game is your DPS, I personally feel that a DPS meter is a very necessary addition to the game.

DPS meters will help bad and sub-par players KNOW that they are bad, and thus open their eyes to necessary improvements eventually bringing the “average skill level” of players in the game up. Good players will have a never-ending goal to strive towards improving their DPS.

Right now Guild Wars 2 rewards all players (basically) equally, regardless of how good or bad you are at the game, thus unskilled players never really come to the realization of just how under-par they are, which I find is incredibly detrimental to the future of the game’s community.

+1

Reikou.7068:

Given that the only real “end game goal,” in Guild Wars 2 is improving your own ability/skill at the game, and the only real way to measure your ability at the game is your DPS, I personally feel that a DPS meter is a very necessary addition to the game.

So I guess tanky/support playstyles either require no skill or have a such a low skill cap it can be achieved by anyone and never be improved, ok gotcha. Dps has absolutely nothing to do with skill as far as I’m concerned-that is more tied to your gear and traits set up; surviving encounters is more skill based. “Oh look I can do consecutive 15k hits to kholer in AC! Too bad I never cleanse any conditions, attack the adds or even dodge his instant-down skill so I’m down more often than not and cause an even greater loss in dps b/c someone has to rez my sorry behind. Oh look the person who was rezzing me tried to rez me while I was in aoe…now he’s down too and someone has to rez him…let’s see, that leaves only two persons actually hitting the boss”. Or how about this-same encounter: I’m a Guardian, but I won’t bring “stand your ground” to protect the party against kholer’s pull; no instead I’ll bring consecrations for fire field (either for might or +10%more damage), bane signet for power and either ‘save yourselves’ for fury or a spirit weapon for additional damage. Well I can dodge the pull well enough but the a couple of the party members miss the tell frequently…too bad I have to be rezzing them instead of hitting the boss with my big sword/hammer"

I understand where you are coming from but there is more to mastering the game than those little white numbers floating on screen

Molch.2078:

Reikou.7068:

Given that the only real “end game goal,” in Guild Wars 2 is improving your own ability/skill at the game, and the only real way to measure your ability at the game is your DPS, I personally feel that a DPS meter is a very necessary addition to the game.

DPS meters will help bad and sub-par players KNOW that they are bad, and thus open their eyes to necessary improvements eventually bringing the “average skill level” of players in the game up. Good players will have a never-ending goal to strive towards improving their DPS.

Right now Guild Wars 2 rewards all players (basically) equally, regardless of how good or bad you are at the game, thus unskilled players never really come to the realization of just how under-par they are, which I find is incredibly detrimental to the future of the game’s community.

+1

-100, try 48 lvl fotm and you will see that it isn’t only DPS (DPS IS big part of the game, and i love havint at least 2 great warriors in party, but it’s not only thing)

Imbune.5497:
When Kholer downs you every 5 sec, your DPS will drop, thus, not get pulled = higer DPS. I dont see your point here.

And if an ally gets downed, of course you will help him, but bad teammates are no excuse – they have no influence on your skillevel.

Sovta.4719:
You dont get it, do you? If you place a wall of reflection so that your warriors can hit, you’re doing this to deal damage. If you think DPS = the number on your screen, then please, think again.
And everyone i asked about high level fotm says the same: lvl 50+ all you need is full zerker and utilitys.

Thats why a groupwide DPS-meter is also important.

You’d have to pair them with damage taken, prevented, and healed meters for this not to devolve into a bunch of idiocy.

Believe it or not, someone on the team is going to get the aggro from a champ mob and take more damage than everyone else. That person is going to have to spend more time evading and not dealing damage.

My observation is that without clear aggro mechanics, people have a tendency to glorify not being the guy getting aggro above all else – and this would just reinforce it.

Reikou.7068:

Given that the only real “end game goal,” in Guild Wars 2 is improving your own ability/skill at the game, and the only real way to measure your ability at the game is your DPS, I personally feel that a DPS meter is a very necessary addition to the game.

DPS meters will help bad and sub-par players KNOW that they are bad, and thus open their eyes to necessary improvements eventually bringing the “average skill level” of players in the game up. Good players will have a never-ending goal to strive towards improving their DPS.

Right now Guild Wars 2 rewards all players (basically) equally, regardless of how good or bad you are at the game, thus unskilled players never really come to the realization of just how under-par they are, which I find is incredibly detrimental to the future of the game’s community.

So, you want an excuse to kick players like me from your groups without feeling guilty about it?

I would like to have at least personal private DPS-meter. It is really needed for people who want to become better and won’t promote elitist party kicking.

Isslair.4908:

I would like to have at least personal private DPS-meter. It is really needed for people who want to become better and won’t promote elitist party kicking.

Sure it will. Party leader looks at his DPS, doesn’t think Bob is doing as much damage as he is, says “U suk noob!” and kicks him. You don’t need to be able to look at someone else’s gear or damage output to judge him, you just make assumptions based on what you can see. It doesn’t matter whether they are correct or not, people will do it anyway.

Reikou.7068:

DPS meters will help bad and sub-par players KNOW that they are bad, and thus open their eyes to necessary improvements eventually bringing the “average skill level” of players in the game up.

No, bad players won’t care, only good players will know they’re bad players and will harass them. The same reason we don’t want gear inspection. Unless you mean it’s only a personal meter, and not visible to the group. What’s even worse: good players will know that damage isnt everything. Bad players that think they’re good players won’t. So bad players will harass bad players for being bad because they’re bad.

Iruwen.3164:

So bad players will harass bad players for being bad because they’re bad.

I don’t understand this =\
It’s online game. You can choose your party freely, no one can force you to do anything.
Yet I always see these posts about “bullying” and “harassing”. WTH, really.

Ensign.2189:

You’d have to pair them with damage taken, prevented, and healed meters for this not to devolve into a bunch of idiocy.

Good idea. A weighted average called DATA!
Dd – Damage dealt * 0.5
At – AoE damage taken * 0.8
Tt – Targeted damage taken * 0.9
Ahm – Ally damage healed or mitigated * 1.4

Maybe even differentiate between armor classes.

Tolmos.8395:

Total damage for the entire team? Sure. Total damage for yourself ONLY? Yes. Total damage for other individuals in your group? Oh hell no. It just invites a type of in game bullying that is neither welcome here nor needed here.

I play trinity games regularly, and consistently play a tank or healer. I refuse to play DPS. With that said, if ANYONE in my group wastes my and the group’s time by kittening and whining about someone’s DPS, I boot them. Simple as that. I have the patience of Buddha when it comes to running with other people, but I will judge you by your own standards. If a player thinks that someone’s DPS being 5% lower than their own is slowing down the run so much that it needs to be addressed, then I will address the fact that their kittenty personality is slowing down the run.

tl;dr- my vote is- for yourself, sure. For others? No.

This is my favorite post ever.

ASB.4295:

Ensign.2189:

You’d have to pair them with damage taken, prevented, and healed meters for this not to devolve into a bunch of idiocy.

Good idea. A weighted average called DATA!
Dd – Damage dealt * 0.5
At – AoE damage taken * 0.8
Tt – Targeted damage taken * 0.9
Ahm – Ally damage healed or mitigated * 1.4

Maybe even differentiate between armor classes.

An average based on arbitrary values? No thanks.

GW2 combat is too complex for a DPS meter. This is not WoW where everyone has a quantifiable “job”.

Isslair.4908:

Iruwen.3164:

So bad players will harass bad players for being bad because they’re bad.

I don’t understand this =\
It’s online game. You can choose your party freely, no one can force you to do anything.
Yet I always see these posts about "bullying" and "harassing". WTH, really.

That’s usually what the popular people say. "There’s no bullying, never happened to me". Welcome to reality. You never played WoW I assume.

Iruwen.3164:

That’s usually what the popular people say. “There’s no bullying, never happened to me”. Welcome to reality. You never played WoW I assume.

This is not reality. You have full control over how you want to play. No one can force you physically or mentally (unless you let them that is).

This is not WoW with hard dungeon\gear progression, raids, etc. After spending at least some time you can get into any dungeon group and even be carried till the end (our party regularly shows people arah p4 for example).
The only content that is blocked is cof p1 farm-runs, where zerk wars require a gearcheck. But it doesn’t matter to the subject of this thread.

Isslair.4908:

It’s online game. You can choose your party freely, no one can force you to do anything.
Yet I always see these posts about “bullying” and “harassing”. WTH, really.

Compare this sane LFG post:

mesmer lfg or starting group for cof path 1 farming, any classes welcome

With this:

@ Blazing Cadenza and YES Don’t Run CoF with YES guild… they are kitten smokers. To the guys who kicked me at the end of path 2 with last boss about to die.cause i said start maag faster, 1×.. lol

There’s no bullying/harassing ever going on?

Even if you join a like-minded party, you are bound to meet this player who complains about everything if it’s not done the way he/she “knows best.” Sure, it’s a game, and it “shouldn’t matter”, but if I called you an “effing baddie” without knowing anything about you, it doesn’t make it more “right” just because you better not take me seriously for being so rude/entitled/arrogant/short-sighted/intolerant/unfriendly. I think the point made by the poster above isn’t just criticizing the supposed “elite”. but more entitled players who think of themselves too highly and freely criticize anyone that’s not running the dungeon/instance “as good” as they supposedly are.

As far as the thread subject goes: DPS meters don’t fit this type of game nor its community. It would divide the community a great deal, and many would leave the game (not to mention, some small community pockets in the game already have the “DPS snob attitude”, so it would only worsen the situation for sure.)

DPS meter in GW2 is nonsense, it would promote bad play, not good one as some here try to prove – I can really see how ppl would be resing downed ppl if there would be dps meters …

Its pretty easy to see who is burden to group – it’s those who spend half of the fight in downed state and don’t need dps meter to see who it is.

Imbune.5497:

Reikou.7068:

Given that the only real “end game goal,” in Guild Wars 2 is improving your own ability/skill at the game, and the only real way to measure your ability at the game is your DPS, I personally feel that a DPS meter is a very necessary addition to the game.

So I guess tanky/support playstyles either require no skill or have a such a low skill cap it can be achieved by anyone and never be improved, ok gotcha. Dps has absolutely nothing to do with skill as far as I’m concerned-that is more tied to your gear and traits set up; surviving encounters is more skill based. “Oh look I can do consecutive 15k hits to kholer in AC! Too bad I never cleanse any conditions, attack the adds or even dodge his instant-down skill so I’m down more often than not and cause an even greater loss in dps b/c someone has to rez my sorry behind. Oh look the person who was rezzing me tried to rez me while I was in aoe…now he’s down too and someone has to rez him…let’s see, that leaves only two persons actually hitting the boss”. Or how about this-same encounter: I’m a Guardian, but I won’t bring “stand your ground” to protect the party against kholer’s pull; no instead I’ll bring consecrations for fire field (either for might or +10%more damage), bane signet for power and either ‘save yourselves’ for fury or a spirit weapon for additional damage. Well I can dodge the pull well enough but the a couple of the party members miss the tell frequently…too bad I have to be rezzing them instead of hitting the boss with my big sword/hammer"

I understand where you are coming from but there is more to mastering the game than those little white numbers floating on screen

+1

Please please please please don’t add this to the game. My own personal experience with mmo’s have been fantastic until you get to the top level and download that DPS meter, start running dungeons only to be told you’re useless because you’re 5% lower than the highest DPS. People have to start from somewhere but they never get the chance if people get down to hard numbers and see that the DPS is lower. You all complain that zerk being the only way is terrible so why enhance that to a point that makes the game unplayable for casual players.

I agree with the personal meter, but making that information available to the party will completely kill what makes GW2 unique, in the fact that the competition to be the best and to get the best will increase drastically. Ultimately it will lead to a lot more farming and the need to add a trinity, making it another WoW wannabe/failure.

Meters are bad – they make a game community horrible and toxic. I am a six year veteran of WoW and I can honestly say that the people who look at/spam meter readings are the most unpleasant and obnoxious jerks in that game, as they would be in this one.
If meters were allowed in this game, I would like to see a checkbox for pugs, so that people could choose not not group with any running such a thing.

Tolmos.8395:

Total damage for the entire team? Sure. Total damage for yourself ONLY? Yes. Total damage for other individuals in your group? Oh hell no. It just invites a type of in game bullying that is neither welcome here nor needed here.

I play trinity games regularly, and consistently play a tank or healer. I refuse to play DPS. With that said, if ANYONE in my group wastes my and the group’s time by kittening and whining about someone’s DPS, I boot them. Simple as that. I have the patience of Buddha when it comes to running with other people, but I will judge you by your own standards. If a player thinks that someone’s DPS being 5% lower than their own is slowing down the run so much that it needs to be addressed, then I will address the fact that their kittenty personality is slowing down the run.

tl;dr- my vote is- for yourself, sure. For others? No.

As a former tank in trinity MMOs, I salute you.

But how will you measure my well timed interrupt that saves the party a wipe?

Reikou.7068:

Given that the only real “end game goal,” in Guild Wars 2 is improving your own ability/skill at the game, and the only real way to measure your ability at the game is your DPS, I personally feel that a DPS meter is a very necessary addition to the game.

DPS meters will help bad and sub-par players KNOW that they are bad, and thus open their eyes to necessary improvements eventually bringing the “average skill level” of players in the game up. Good players will have a never-ending goal to strive towards improving their DPS.

Right now Guild Wars 2 rewards all players (basically) equally, regardless of how good or bad you are at the game, thus unskilled players never really come to the realization of just how under-par they are, which I find is incredibly detrimental to the future of the game’s community.

Or, you know, not dying at all.

Scootabuser.4915:

We already have stigmas that players make from research, spreadsheets, and experiance.

I know for a fact that many of them are just WRONG.

Why not add a Total Damage meter in game? The consequences of not having one have been worse, and classes have been downright excluded from content.

I know it will never happen though, because people don’t know the difference between Total Damage and DPS :/

I would put my reply, but it would get me banned from forums.

So i’ll stick with no, and leave your imagination to fill in the words I wanted to say in response to this.

Scootabuser.4915:

We already have stigmas that players make from research, spreadsheets, and experiance.

I know for a fact that many of them are just WRONG.

Why not add a Total Damage meter in game? The consequences of not having one have been worse, and classes have been downright excluded from content.

I know it will never happen though, because people don’t know the difference between Total Damage and DPS :/

We don’t need to make a bad situation worse.

There’s something else we have in this game too Bigotry against certain armor/build types and against certain classes.

Adding a DPS meter will break this game up even more. You think it’s a ghost town now? Just add that and watch.

Just a quick example of how a damage meter, including total damage, is just completely the wrong thing to do. I was playing FFXI which has no damage meter at all, but you can get parsers online that work in exactly the same way. One time we decided to parse our events to do as you said, test where our strengths were and what classes we should all be coming to get the best results instead of just coming in the way we saw was fun.

Anyways at the end of the run, we looked back at the damage and linked it all in party chat etc. Now, we are all really really great friends, but the arguments we had after discussing them results were just incredible. People were saying they were all terrible players and the classes were wrong and imbalanced, and making excuses, blaming the bosses for using bad moves etc. Basically just slating everyone, which never happens because we all knew we were great players and didn’t need numbers to tell us that.

My point being, that after using this for a week our overall view on the DPS meter was to burn it and never ever set eyes on it again, because it would have destroyed our friendship and will do the same with the community, all over a set of numbers that really mean very little. It does not measure skill.

This game is not like WoW and I really hope it does not become a new WoW. The laid back nature of the community in game at the moment when it comes to joining events is what keeps me and a lot of players actually active in the game. Not everyone who plays today has come from an MMO background, or plays hardcore because there’s no sub fee, so adding so much competition for damage will potentially be disastrous.

Star Ace.5207:

@ Blazing Cadenza and YES Don’t Run CoF with YES guild… they are kitten smokers. To the guys who kicked me at the end of path 2 with last boss about to die.cause i said start maag faster, 1×.. lol

Some random guy was kicked for being a jerk. So what?
It is actually anti-bullying, because you can ignore\kick unpleasant people. This example kinda illustrates my point of view more.

but more entitled players who think of themselves too highly and freely criticize anyone that’s not running the dungeon/instance “as good” as they supposedly are.

Really? I’m constantly running fractals with baddies (silently, mind you) and they have no problem whatsoever in joining groups and even completing fractal runs (even though they can’t be bothered to listen what experienced people say).

If you aren’t a complete dimwit and if you aren’t acting like a jerk, 95% of parties won’t kick you ever. But if you try to be a bully and demand whole party to play the game your way, you will get kicked – and that’s anti-bullying. So again, I still don’t understand all this “harassment” and “bullying” problems. Unless it comes from people who actually try to bully other people and get kicked.

A meter would be a nice addition.
But:
1. Make meters for
a. Direct DPS
b. Damage taken – Tank
c. Healing given
e. Condition damage
f. Conditions removed
g. Interrupts applied
h. Number of times a player got downed
f. Number of times a player rezzed another player
x. Some more stats

I think the title is wrong and because of that, many players are afraid and do not want this kind of feature.

Even if we no not have a dedicated dps, tank or healer, some stats would be nice to see where everyone excels at.

I might want to be a dedicated healer, so I will gear up for best healing.
I would like to know if I am good at that.
The same goes for DPS, tanking and all other stats.

It is not ALL about DPS.

If it was only for yourself it would be a good idea so you could optimize your builds. But shouldn’t be able to show info on party members… we alreay have people that complain about sPvP and spectator mode and that you can see other’s builds. Lol.

What the others do does not concern you. So a dps meter only for yourself and not to display info about others.

Personally, I don’t want my off-days to be the overall determiner of how valuable I am as a player.

We already have elitest kittens who won’t accept you unless you have SPECIFIC gear, now you want to give them an excuse to kick you because you do 2 dps less (or some other measurement) than another player..

Kitten, kitten kittening kitten.

Nope, DPS meters cater to an entirely juvenile and needless form of elitism and bullying which would 100% make this game worse for a lot of players.

Not only that, since all characters are hybridized and there is no trinity, player skill/character performance is about a lot more than just DPS – it’s just as much about being able to properly avoid damage, provide the right support at the right time, etc.

DPS meters encourage an overly-simplistic and myopic analysis of gameplay that can be misleading and is significantly less helpful than it arguably is in a game like WoW. Sorry, anyone asking for this just doesn’t have their head in the right place, period.

Einlanzer.1627:

Nope, DPS meters cater to an entirely juvenile and needless form of elitism and bullying which would 100% make this game worse for a lot of players.

Not only that, since all characters are hybridized and there is no trinity, player skill/character performance is about a lot more than just DPS – it’s just as much about being able to properly avoid damage, provide the right support at the right time, etc.

DPS meters encourage an overly-simplistic and myopic analysis of gameplay that can be misleading and is significantly less helpful than it arguably is in a game like WoW. Sorry, anyone asking for this just doesn’t have their head in the right place, period.

but people joining groups with the sole purposes of leeching off them doesn’t make the game bad for others? I’m really sick of MF leeches or the pure tanks which just don’t know what dodgeing is. I’d rather take some elitism over having to carry 1-2 players per pug with MF sigils etc.

overall performance is very important but has nothing to do with adding or leaving a damage meter or any other form of teammember evaluation. play-style can’t be measured in numbers and has to be looked at seperately anyway . this is in no way any argument for or against a damage meter.

in a game with the typical trinity, a damage meter is rather useless, as a healer will never do much damage, nor will the tank, yet they might be able to fulfill their respective roles perfectly. GW2 is not a game with the trinity, which unfortunately means: the only thing that matters is the damage dealt. you can’t heal your group, you can’t tank for your group. everybody has to dodge, everybody has to heal themselves.
players who still don’t get that and desperately try to hang on to the concept of a healer or tank are quite useless in a dungeon, in fact they hinder the team. a zerker guardian can support a group quite well and still dish out tons of damage.

a good player can support his group and dish out damage. a bad player can do neither. a damagemeter will not necessarily help discern good from great players, but a bad player can no longer so easily hide in the group and count on being carried through everything.

also, right now you can’t join a group without performing a gearcheck, since it’s technically possible to post gear.
oh wait – you can!
a dps meter would be just another feature most people ignore but a few would really like to have.
that said, I don’t really want a dps meter, I just want to the see the gear/traits everyone is wearing in my group. if I think their gear won’t work or rather is useless and I have to do all the work, I can leave before we even start the dungeon and nobody wastes each others time. they can look for someone more fun and relaxed and I can look for a group which wants to be more efficient.

Oranisagu.3706:

in a game with the typical trinity, a damage meter is rather useless, as a healer will never do much damage, nor will the tank, yet they might be able to fulfill their respective roles perfectly. GW2 is not a game with the trinity, which unfortunately means: the only thing that matters is the damage dealt. you can’t heal your group, you can’t tank for your group. everybody has to dodge, everybody has to heal themselves.
players who still don’t get that and desperately try to hang on to the concept of a healer or tank are quite useless in a dungeon, in fact they hinder the team. a zerker guardian can support a group quite well and still dish out tons of damage.

a good player can support his group and dish out damage. a bad player can do neither. a damagemeter will not necessarily help discern good from great players, but a bad player can no longer so easily hide in the group and count on being carried through everything.

also, right now you can’t join a group without performing a gearcheck, since it’s technically possible to post gear.
oh wait – you can!
a dps meter would be just another feature most people ignore but a few would really like to have.
that said, I don’t really want a dps meter, I just want to the see the gear/traits everyone is wearing in my group. if I think their gear won’t work or rather is useless and I have to do all the work, I can leave before we even start the dungeon and nobody wastes each others time. they can look for someone more fun and relaxed and I can look for a group which wants to be more efficient.

The problem is that you, like a few others out there, think and propagate the PERSONAL OPINION that GW2 is only about DPS because there’s no trinity. Please, feel free to ask ANet’s developers if GW2 is only about DPS as you people claim-I know all the math that you will quote, and how everything is “faster” the way you do it, but feel free to quote any developer’s claim to GW2 being all about a max DPS race just because it lacks tanks/healers.

In short:

-“Efficiency” doesn’t matter to many players-fun does

-Fun can’t be quantified by DPS meters, and it can be had in both “efficient” and “inefficient” ways

-DPS meters cater only to “pro-efficiency” players, while neglecting the needs of many, many players that couldn’t care less about that extra % of direct damage many are so in love with (which is OK, of course, as long as you don’t think it’s the only way to play the game.)

-Therefore, the few that really “need” DPS meters can live with the current system (“ping gear”) to exclude others, rather than being provided OFFICIAL backing for their exclusivist attitude, which ultimately divides the community-DPS meters will not help the game at all, but drive many players away from it (the elitists would remain, but is that what ANet really wants?)

I like the GW2 buildcraft site, but what I hate about it is that high condition damage characters get a very low “effective power” rating, while it’s so easy to get a high rating by inflating the score with Berserker’s stats and CONDITIONAL traits-usually the “weaker” character can actually do better through gameplay mechanics that don’t pay any heed to those “efficiency” numbers at all. A great, synergistic condition build can do higher damage than a very high direct damage build that may be too unforgiving for certain players out there (too high-risk for the high-reward for many.)

In this game, a higher number is just that, higher-not inherently better. It’s all up to the player whether he/she makes his/her higher OR lower numbers work for him/her.

I get how many players play only DPS as a sort of “protest” against ANet for either not supporting the trinity or so that the developers do something to further encourage the use of crowd control and condition damage, but in the end, the game wasn’t really designed to be played only “max DPS” style-even if that’s what many prefer and deem more efficient. Even in our current state, all other options NOT max DPS are also good and viable for many players-DPS is fine, but so can be everything else (could it be better? yes, but it doesn’t mean that I must go “all DPS, all the time,” even now.)

PS: And Oranisagu, I mean no offense, but I have seen many elitist players in “leet gear” “being carried” (since you love the term) by players with the “wrong gear”-they will usually be blamed, of course, but no, the “leet” player wouldn’t have died so much if either he/she would have been more careful (really elite, as opposed to just thinking of himself/herself higher because of supposedly “better” gear) or if he/she would have had a more balanced approach to his/her build. DPS is fine, but it doesn’t “carry” the others just because you may think it’s “the right way” to play GW2.

a lot of DPS = good player isn’t true at all.

1.) You would have to take Berserker gear to get most dps. This would mean that you sacrifice defensive stats and people will have to defend you or pick you up if you go down. Yes, you can be a good player and avoid all that damage, but it can also mean that you have too much emphasis on keeping yourself alive than helping other players.

2.) Good players help other players during battle. Period.

3.) GW2s skill-system isn’t based on full-dps. Each Weapon has different skills with different purposes. Spamming 1 & 2 and therefore doing most damage doesn’t mean that you are a good player. Using 3, 4, 5 and 6-10 in the right situations makes you a good player.

so DPS-meters? Hell no!!

Deepcuts.9740:

A meter would be a nice addition.
But:
1. Make meters for
a. Direct DPS
b. Damage taken – Tank
c. Healing given
e. Condition damage
f. Conditions removed
g. Interrupts applied
h. Number of times a player got downed
f. Number of times a player rezzed another player
x. Some more stats

I think the title is wrong and because of that, many players are afraid and do not want this kind of feature.

Even if we no not have a dedicated dps, tank or healer, some stats would be nice to see where everyone excels at.

I might want to be a dedicated healer, so I will gear up for best healing.
I would like to know if I am good at that.
The same goes for DPS, tanking and all other stats.

It is not ALL about DPS.

While I’m not a fan of the idea that the UI should be cluttered with meters telling us one party member is being the “carry” (in the DotA/LoL sense of the word) and a couple of other players are being useful in other ways. I feel there’s too much information you’d need to know about your party to review it than there is to display on screen at any given time.

That’s 9+ bars man. NINE! Right now we can only see 6 (7 for rangers, warriors and Necros, but that’s besides the point). While I don’t claim it to be incredibly useful as a standard part of the UI, a sort of “mission report” or debriefing would be pretty cool. Tell everyone what each party member did well, which party members weren’t performing so well and maybe give out little awards for certain accomplishments? If you’ve played Megaman Zero, you’ll know what I’m talking about, if you haven’t, well… Here’s the gist of it:

http://youtu.be/S_Y9UQ_ps9w?t=5m13s

You could expand it to make a table showing how well each player did. It doesn’t add much extra time to a dungeon run since it’s just an extra button press to skip it. But it can help players who’re doing bad at the game realise where they’re going wrong and clearly shows there’s more to the game than forcing other players to distract enemies so you can be the highest damage source. Giving out little titles based on performance would also encourage players to improve their skill and would give player groups things to laugh about. Things I can think of right now would be “untied shoes” for someone who goes down a lot or “the wall” for someone who took the most hits, counting evades and blocks.

I guess I’m just really fond of mission style games, where this sort of thing is standard issue.

Personal meter would be great when soloing.

I not only don’t like the idea of meters, but I don’t even think there should be numbers. I say this half-jokingly but there seem to be a few different types of players. Some really care about numbers and some just care to see if what they’re doing is killing stuff. These groups of players seem incompatible to me.

I’d love to see a game designed without numbers at all. Where you just know you’re sort of strong, you’re quite agile, that sort of thing. Pretty much how it is in real life.

I think the game would be far more immersive, wthout numbers, because I’m pretty sure my character doesn’t know what level he is.

HotHit.6783:

Deepcuts.9740:

A meter would be a nice addition.
But:
1. Make meters for
a. Direct DPS
b. Damage taken – Tank
c. Healing given
e. Condition damage
f. Conditions removed
g. Interrupts applied
h. Number of times a player got downed
f. Number of times a player rezzed another player
x. Some more stats

I think the title is wrong and because of that, many players are afraid and do not want this kind of feature.

Even if we no not have a dedicated dps, tank or healer, some stats would be nice to see where everyone excels at.

I might want to be a dedicated healer, so I will gear up for best healing.
I would like to know if I am good at that.
The same goes for DPS, tanking and all other stats.

It is not ALL about DPS.

While I’m not a fan of the idea that the UI should be cluttered with meters telling us one party member is being the “carry” (in the DotA/LoL sense of the word) and a couple of other players are being useful in other ways. I feel there’s too much information you’d need to know about your party to review it than there is to display on screen at any given time.

That’s 9+ bars man. NINE! Right now we can only see 6 (7 for rangers, warriors and Necros, but that’s besides the point). While I don’t claim it to be incredibly useful as a standard part of the UI, a sort of “mission report” or debriefing would be pretty cool. Tell everyone what each party member did well, which party members weren’t performing so well and maybe give out little awards for certain accomplishments? If you’ve played Megaman Zero, you’ll know what I’m talking about, if you haven’t, well… Here’s the gist of it:

http://youtu.be/S_Y9UQ_ps9w?t=5m13s

You could expand it to make a table showing how well each player did. It doesn’t add much extra time to a dungeon run since it’s just an extra button press to skip it. But it can help players who’re doing bad at the game realise where they’re going wrong and clearly shows there’s more to the game than forcing other players to distract enemies so you can be the highest damage source. Giving out little titles based on performance would also encourage players to improve their skill and would give player groups things to laugh about. Things I can think of right now would be “untied shoes” for someone who goes down a lot or “the wall” for someone who took the most hits, counting evades and blocks.

I guess I’m just really fond of mission style games, where this sort of thing is standard issue.

I see no issue with this, with the proviso that a)this is actually NOT a public, party report, but just a private one, for personal player improvement use, and if it’s possible to stop players from asking to ping for “screenshots” of your latest ten dungeon reports. In short, when people disagree about the numbers you see on your screen, even if you think you are being effective, they will grief you for it if they think they could have done it better.

In short, some player’s competitive attitude gets the best of them, and makes them behave very immaturely. A public performance report is a good idea in theory, but some players that will care only about certain numbers in the table will complain about your genuinely good performance, if it doesn’t meet their individual, arbitrary criteria of what’s supposed to be “the best.”

It would be cool to see such reports for my own characters, I just think it’s dangerous if the self-proclaimed “uber” players start misusing such a tool for further virtual bigotry.

Vayne.8563:

I not only don’t like the idea of meters, but I don’t even think there should be numbers. I say this half-jokingly but there seem to be a few different types of players. Some really care about numbers and some just care to see if what they’re doing is killing stuff. These groups of players seem incompatible to me.

I’d love to see a game designed without numbers at all. Where you just know you’re sort of strong, you’re quite agile, that sort of thing. Pretty much how it is in real life.

I think the game would be far more immersive, wthout numbers, because I’m pretty sure my character doesn’t know what level he is.

I’d play that! Definitely not an option for this game, but say a new game that had no level but where your level was determined by NPC’s reactions upon talking to them. For example a level 1 character would be looked down on by a lot of npc’s but when you hit level 80 they bow down to you, and consequently give you things, like access to dungeons etc. Would be a game that everyone could relate to, because obviously if we go out and hit a crab for real, a magical set of numbers wouldn’t appear over its head!

Oranisagu.3706:

- that said, I don’t really want a dps meter, I just want to the see the gear/traits everyone is wearing in my group. if I think their gear won’t work or rather is useless and I have to do all the work, I can leave before we even start the dungeon and nobody wastes each others time. they can look for someone more fun and relaxed and I can look for a group which wants to be more efficient.-

No – this also breeds rudeness and elitism. None of your business what anyone is wearing or is traited – this is a GAME, not a job – no one should be scrutinized like a job applicant as soon as they get in a group to play a game. Just get your group and go play – you’ll know soon enough if it’s not the right group for you without being able to inspect. What this game needs is a way to inspect for gogogo kiddies and efficiency fiends before we decide to group with them!
There are plenty of other games that enable elitist jerks, I no longer play them, that’s why I love GW.

They disallowed DPS meters so that it’s harder for the playerbase and theorycrafters to gather data about performance.

This keeps current functions obscure to the playerbase so that when a developer makes a claim, it’s hard for players to refute or engage them.

It’s very clear from design decisions like not having a Public Test Realm that they take the feedback from the playerbase at large with a grain of salt.