Guild Wars 2

OK, don’t know if this has been suggested before (it probably has), and I’m not wanting people to respond saying “Please god no don’t do this.”

I would really like it if a feature similar to this was added. Right now, in the current state of the game, it feels like there is really no way to gauge player ability in the PvE scenario. It feels as if, while playing, everyone is just doing their own thing and no one it is almost impossible to tell who the better players are.

I realize that certain people like the casual aspect of this game, and I think that ArenaNet has done a superb job of making the game casual friendly. I’m personally a very busy college student and I like being able to just hop on, do a few quests, maybe craft a little, and get off while feeling like I’ve accomplished something. However, when I am playing and in a group (whether a party or just a bunch of people working on the same quest) there is no sense of competition. Personally, I find that when you’re playing a game with and against other people, there should be some sort of mechanism to see who is playing at what ability. I get a sense of satisfaction from seeing that I have outperformed my peers; not because I like to be some sort of internet tough guy, but so that I can validate that my own skills as a player.

Even if it is not a damage meter per se, I feel like this game definitely needs some aspect to more accurately gauge skill levels. Because currently, there is almost no way to tell the difference between someone who button mashes their main attack skill and someone who carefully plans out their skills and uses them correctly situationally.

I know some people will respond by saying “If you want to gauge yourself against other players, play PvP.” While I do enjoy PvP, I also enjoy teaming up together to take down a larger challenge, usually with some sort of story behind it. But just because I want to work with other people, doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be some sense of competition to drive people to become the best player they can be and utilize their skills more effectively.

No.

Most people don’t know how to read a Damage Meter correctly and tend to rate other players by nothing else than their DPS which is poisonous for the community.

Forums won’t let me quote.

But I want to point out what you said in your post.

" I feel like this game definitely needs some aspect to more accurately gauge skill levels. Because currently, there is almost no way to tell the difference between someone who button mashes their main attack skill and someone who carefully plans out their skills and uses them correctly situationally."

A Damage meter will do you kittenin no good

To the first poster, while it’s inevitable that other people will be judged based on their dps, that’s what happens when competition is involved, they go hand in hand. The compliment of any sort of competition is that those who are sub par will have to come to the conclusion that they are sub par. But that’s a necessary sacrifice. What is the point of playing a game where there’s no winner and everyone is just as good as everyone else? I’m sorry but that’s how 5 year olds play games in kindergarten so that their feelings aren’t hurt. I don’t mean to offend anyone, but if you’re old enough to play this game, then you’re old enough to understand how competitions work. And honestly, if you’re only a casual gamer looking for a casual experience, then those sorts of things shouldn’t matter to you anyway. For a casual, why should you care about who is the best of the best? That’s for the more hardcore gamers who want to have a damage meter anyway, so why does it matter?

skaaz.4281:

Forums won’t let me quote.

But I want to point out what you said in your post.

" I feel like this game definitely needs some aspect to more accurately gauge skill levels. Because currently, there is almost no way to tell the difference between someone who button mashes their main attack skill and someone who carefully plans out their skills and uses them correctly situationally."

A Damage meter will do you kittenin no good

I do not know what “Kittenin” is, or how it applies to my quote. Would you care to explain?

“Kitten” is the forum’s automatic censor for swear words. From context I’m guessing the original word was the present participle of the eff-word.

I have absolutely no problem with competition being involved. But, and that’s important, DPS on their own don’t tell you anything, you always have to analyze the whole situation and the role a char played in any given situation. In order to evaluate a players efficiency you have to know a lot about both the class and build he’s running and the mobs he is fighting. You have to know how certain game mechanics affect how the player needs to play his char.
There is much more to reading a Damage Meter than to just press the “Show DPS” button. And most people are just not capable of that, they just take a quick look at the DPS and turn their brains off.

Actually there’s no point in determining how much dps each player has, because the cap stats are simply the cap stats there’s no “enhancing” here, either “gear-ing”, you just have to play your class and, as I’m guessing you’ve hit the cap, I’m confident players have already tried a number of builds in 80 levels…. am I right? I mean the only way you could say somebody’s not doing his job is… that you see the guy afk.

I’d also like to point out that bet most people don’t realize that getting a low number of points in pvp isn’t the issue either, because those who defend the capture points get FAR less points compared to the “attackers”, but trust me, defending is very reliable.

Domino.9346:

To the first poster, while it’s inevitable that other people will be judged based on their dps, that’s what happens when competition is involved, they go hand in hand. The compliment of any sort of competition is that those who are sub par will have to come to the conclusion that they are sub par. But that’s a necessary sacrifice. What is the point of playing a game where there’s no winner and everyone is just as good as everyone else? I’m sorry but that’s how 5 year olds play games in kindergarten so that their feelings aren’t hurt. I don’t mean to offend anyone, but if you’re old enough to play this game, then you’re old enough to understand how competitions work. And honestly, if you’re only a casual gamer looking for a casual experience, then those sorts of things shouldn’t matter to you anyway. For a casual, why should you care about who is the best of the best? That’s for the more hardcore gamers who want to have a damage meter anyway, so why does it matter?

skaaz.4281:

Forums won’t let me quote.

But I want to point out what you said in your post.

" I feel like this game definitely needs some aspect to more accurately gauge skill levels. Because currently, there is almost no way to tell the difference between someone who button mashes their main attack skill and someone who carefully plans out their skills and uses them correctly situationally."

A Damage meter will do you kittenin no good

I do not know what “Kittenin” is, or how it applies to my quote. Would you care to explain?

Yea it was the eff word.

The damage meter will not tell you who is just button mashing.

If there was a damage meter, tell me what incentive would I have to revive a downed player or play support/control in a dungeon? I’m competing against them, I can’t run over to help them, it would hinder my DPS. That is the exact mentality that you’ll get if you introduce such a tool. Throw down a healing rain? Nope, would ruin my DPS. Bring a profession that doesn’t do as much damage as another one to your party? Nope, not enough damage, slows down the dungeon.

o god please don’t.

I don’t feel this would add much for anyone looking to establish player skill.
I’ll give some reasons here:

(Note I will use World of Warcraft as an example since its well known and I am familiar with high end raiding and yes I expect someone to roll their eyes at another mention of WoW but whatever)

-I have seen very few fights in this game where I can call them a ‘tank and spank’. If there was a bunch of bosses I have seen that some tank grabs then you spend your time wailing on a damage meter would be more useful.
-There is no equivalent to an enrage timer as far as I am aware

For example if there were a bunch of fights like Brutallus from Sunwell I could see this being much more useful where you have to deal as much damage as possible in a ludicrously short amount of time before the boss is pretty much scripted to annihilate everything. Instead a players skill in pve is more equal parts of damage and or utility and staying alive. Something more akin (another WoW example sorry everyone) to Illidari Council where its more of a balance and a focus on mobility.

You could certainly still judge a player’s skill based on a damage meter but this would be a relatively poor judge. I think part of this is that roles are much more loosely defined, a thief using double daggers you could make an argument should be judged by a meter but this depends entirely on the build someone is using for a class. you’d have to know what their weapons and chosen skills are. You could make a relatively safe assumption that a warrior using an axe and shield is mostly about damage with just the shield for some extra survivability. However for all you know they might have a bunch of tank utility skills and just chose axe to help do a bit more damage while taking a bunch of punishment.

If you have two combat rogues in WoW you can have a good basis of comparison as they have the exact same skills (I am just going to say talents as well because at least before I stopped playing there was really only one way to go for each tree) and can only bring dps to a fight. In this case you can’t just easily slot every character into a nice cookie cutter.

I also agree with KittyWitty about reviving downed players or being generally helpful. Reviving players in combat would pretty much never happen except in the more serious guilds where a person is considered of prime importance. This also makes things harder to gauge because EVERYONE can revive someone. There is no dedicated healer who can do it and is expected to when called for.

It seems like a lot of potential bookkeeping for little pay off.

In addition to what KittyWitty said:
Since there is no Holy Trinity in GW2 doing too much DPS is actually a bad thing. The highest DPS can only be achieved if you wear exclusively damage equip, which goes hand in hand with a reduced survivability by what you become a burden for your group.

GW is not a DPS game, if you want a DPS meter either find a way to make your own or play a different game.

ANet took measures to take the game away from the whole Tank, DPS, Heal trinity by making everyone fit these roles. The game was designed to encourage working with other players, and assisting them when downed.

While adding a DPS meter may sound like a simple harmless thing at first when you look at the intricacies of the system you will quickly discover that all it will do is force change to the player mentality and destroy the concept of working as a group.

There is a reason why in most MMOs the DPS classes wait hours for groups while the Healers and Tanks get groups instantly. Tanks and Healers typically don’t care about how high their DPS is, they have a single purpose and they focus on that. While a DPS player more often than not is focused solely on how high their numbers are. When the same players are thrown into a game like GW2 where DPS doesn’t matter the Healer and Tank adjust to the playstyle easily and assist others as though it were second nature, while the DPS player still focuses on their numbers but hindered by the lack of a visual meter they to adapt. Introduce a meter later and those DPS players who adapted will return to focusing only on their numbers and never help a downed ally up or toss any group buffs/heals when needed but instead focus solely on themselves.

What you are asking for is to take a group oriented game and add a single element that will turn 90% of the players into self centered egotistic DPS crunchers. We don’t want that.

I’m sorry if the last part came off as harsh but it’s true.

Thanks all. For proving the point.

Nothing against you Domino.

But a dps meter will mean nothing to the game.

Domino.9346:

1) To the first poster, while it’s inevitable that other people will be judged based on their dps, that’s what happens when competition is involved, they go hand in hand. The compliment of any sort of competition is that those who are sub par will have to come to the conclusion that they are sub par.

2) I do not know what “Kittenin” is, or how it applies to my quote. Would you care to explain?

1) No one ever thinks they are sub-par.

2) “Kitten” is Anet’s word for explicit, or otherwise unscrupulous, language.

@Domino: Nope sorry, a damage meter doesnt fit in this game.

This game is not based around the trinity, its based around utility and situational awareness. Something which means that a damage meter wont be an option to display skill. The game is about managing your aggro and not going ape on the dps. No one and everyone is a tank and healer aswell as dps at the same time.

A dps meter would just show who was most lucky dpsing without snatching aggro, nothing more. Personally when I play my engi I care little about what dps I pull, I make sure to keep the needed dots up on certain fights aswell as cleansing conditions as soon as I possibly can.

But I regularly hear people whine on “tanks” about how they need to learn to hold aggro and whatnot in this game aswell. My suggestion is that they should all go back to a trinity based MMO if they want defined classroles.

You can do dungeons in this game with whatever setup you want, 5 thieves, 5 mentalists, 5 whatever. There are no defined class roles because any player with basic knowledge knows how to “tank” in this game.

Took a sidepath from the main subject that was the dps meter, but it was needed to show how pointless a dps meter would be.

The person who should pull most damage is the guy that wants to kite the aggro around.

I cant quote but im on point with nachtnebel.9168, class cannon builds arent that usefull in my experience with dungeons so far. Even through most people would go for it because DPS would be much higher if we had a DPS meter.

So please no DPS meter.

SneakyErvin.3056:

But I regularly hear people whine on “tanks” about how they need to learn to hold aggro and whatnot in this game aswell. My suggestion is that they should all go back to a trinity based MMO if they want defined classroles.

I hold aggro on my necromancer really easy, all I have to do is be there and press 1 button on any of my skill bars that isn’t auto attack. I mean seriously i think every mob in this game has a grudge on me cause an entire group can be fighting a group of mobs and I walk up to that group cast one spell and all the mobs are like OMFG get him!!!

On another note, a damage meter isn’t going to tell you how/when someone was dodging, if they were using their heal and using it affectively and not just oh god, about to die use heal now moments. It’s not going to tell you who was stacking up conditions that hamper the enemy or constantly keeping buffs up to the rest of the group. It’s only, like previous posters before me have said, encourage the “I play for myself and my higher numbers” as opposed to the, I do everything I can to make sure the group is as successful as possible attitude the game is trying to achieve.

KittyWitty.7813:

If there was a damage meter, tell me what incentive would I have to revive a downed player or play support/control in a dungeon? I’m competing against them, I can’t run over to help them, it would hinder my DPS. That is the exact mentality that you’ll get if you introduce such a tool. Throw down a healing rain? Nope, would ruin my DPS. Bring a profession that doesn’t do as much damage as another one to your party? Nope, not enough damage, slows down the dungeon.

To add to my last post, it would also encourage more glass cannons. Trust me, we’ve got enough glass cannons and a lot of them can’t dodge or migrate damage enough with their utilities, which results in them downing and being defeated a lot. Unfortunately they don’t see if you’re downed you’re not doing as much damage as if you were alive if you’re that concerned about damage. But nope, they play glass cannon and demand a rezz when the boss is shooting AoEs at them which is a death trap if you try to run over to rezz them.

Most people don’t know how to read a Damage Meter correctly and tend to rate other players by nothing else than their DPS which is poisonous for the community.

This should not be a reason not to implement a feature as a damage meter.
There are plenty of people who know how to look at a damage meter and for those people information like that is very much needed in pve.

To the first poster, while it’s inevitable that other people will be judged based on their dps, that’s what happens when competition is involved, they go hand in hand. The compliment of any sort of competition is that those who are sub par will have to come to the conclusion that they are sub par. But that’s a necessary sacrifice. What is the point of playing a game where there’s no winner and everyone is just as good as everyone else? I’m sorry but that’s how 5 year olds play games in kindergarten so that their feelings aren’t hurt. I don’t mean to offend anyone, but if you’re old enough to play this game, then you’re old enough to understand how competitions work. And honestly, if you’re only a casual gamer looking for a casual experience, then those sorts of things shouldn’t matter to you anyway. For a casual, why should you care about who is the best of the best? That’s for the more hardcore gamers who want to have a damage meter anyway, so why does it matter?

Damage meters arent ment for casual gamers but are ment for gamers who like to test out certain builds dps wise.
Also are ment for people trying to see where something might go wrong in pve.

For example if someone takes a x amount of more damage then others when its not needed.
Or who is doing the most amount of damage on a certain mob.
There are always be competition but thats not the reason behind a damage meter, if someone uses it as a competition then well, sucks to be him.

But in the end even with competition only the pve skill level will increase since other players will push themselfs even further.

Actually there’s no point in determining how much dps each player has, because the cap stats are simply the cap stats there’s no “enhancing” here, either “gear-ing”, you just have to play your class and, as I’m guessing you’ve hit the cap, I’m confident players have already tried a number of builds in 80 levels…. am I right? I mean the only way you could say somebody’s not doing his job is… that you see the guy afk.

There is a low gear cap in this game yes, however when someone is slow on retargetting mobs/bosses.
Or isnt in range enough, then it shows that person needs to improve.
And the builds you mention cant be tested without a damage meter.

If there was a damage meter, tell me what incentive would I have to revive a downed player or play support/control in a dungeon? I’m competing against them, I can’t run over to help them, it would hinder my DPS. That is the exact mentality that you’ll get if you introduce such a tool. Throw down a healing rain? Nope, would ruin my DPS. Bring a profession that doesn’t do as much damage as another one to your party? Nope, not enough damage, slows down the dungeon.

Wrong in every way and clearly shows a lack of pve experience.
First of all this would show in resses and healing done, since reviving is healing.

So when someone is low on damage done however high on healing done you can see that player saved the day.

GW is not a DPS game, if you want a DPS meter either find a way to make your own or play a different game.

Wrong, gw2 is all about dps and surviability.
Every class has their own healing skills with some having small group local group heals, however the main part of gw2 is dps.

This game is not based around the trinity, its based around utility and situational awareness. Something which means that a damage meter wont be an option to display skill.

Also not true, the trinity is healing/tanking/damage
In GW2 there is a duality tanking/damage

So there is stil a damage role for most classes so its one of the most important aspects of the pve part of the game.

Anyway i pretty much proven everyone wrong who thinks that a damage meter shouldnt be in GW2.
The reason however there wont be a damage meter in GW2 is because Arenanet would then have to balance the game in a pve aspect.
This is something they cant be bothered in doing since their main focus is pvp and pve is just something on the side to entertain players who arent to focused on pvp.

So many people are missing the point, and hopefully ArenaNet doesn’t too. This is a damage based game. If the weapons in the game didnt have stats and damage ratings, and there wasn’t a DAMAGE METER above your enemies head every time you strike them (to let you know how much damage your doing!), players would be completely lost on which gear is better than other gear.

It IS competitive, and being the game is a MMORPG the most important competitor is yourself. You’re playing to improve your character, and nothings wrong with analyzing it through data, be it damage per second, healing per second, or any per battle statistics.

Also, the original poster is not asking for a exact version of WoWs Recount add on. Just a postmortem way to analyze the numbers that are happening very rapidly during battle.

Not having damage meters and the like help contribute to this being a friendlier game than other MMOs, IMO. I thought I’d hate not having tools like a damage meter, but I really love the resulting atmosphere.

Turns out I’m not the only one who feels that way. Article: “How UI Mods Burn MMORPGs” http://goo.gl/0KUeS (When I load the page, it doesn’t work, but pressing reload again brings up the article) This talks specifically about damage meters, the effect on WoW, and then specifically mentions GW2 and SW:TOR.

(Also, while it’s lovely to think that people are using the data to improve and analyse their own performance, that’s not how it’s used most of the time in fact.)

As many of the posters said above, damage meters get used incorrectly in games. It’s an incredibly great tool for players who want to test build and stuff, but what it does to a community can be pretty sad. It turns people into people who are focused on “DPS” and “HPS”, and I’ve seen this happen in WoW many times. There would minimum DPS requirements to do certain raids and then it invites some pretty sad discrimination on players based on how they performed on a meter.

Basically, it makes the game less friendly if you ask me. It turns people into numbers and statistics. It makes you focus on that little tiny number chart instead of enjoying the game for what it is. I’m pretty sure I remember reading an article on why GW2 UI is designed to be non-intrusive.

@Daisai, I’ll point out the flaws in what you said.
Although you said DPS meters are for more serious gamers, the problem is that EVERYONE will use it, and if they don’t, they’ll be at a disadvantage. I know this from WoW personally. Sometimes you get players there that require you to link them your Recount data before they let you join. And if you happen to do poorly in a certain fight, they might bash on you for have lower numbers. If a dps meter is allowed, it’ll eventually become a “necessity” for gamers to have an edge. That detracts from the game’s overall content and reduces things into just numbers and “what’s best and what’s not”.

It’s a great tool for people wishing to theorycraft, but what it does to a game community is great. GW2 doesn’t have a damage meter because ANET doesn’t want to balance their game… I seriously have a hard time believing that with the amount of adjustments they make with patches. I’m pretty sure they want to avoid turning the community of casual gamers into one that is focused on the UI and numbers. They want to move people away from just focusing on numbers and have them take in the game.

I’m so glad that Anet didn’t do what WoW did and allow addons and things that detracts from the game. You don’t know how much of a relief it is to not hear people whine about being a crappy DPS/HPS/ or aggro tank. I can actually focus and enjoy the game instead of looking at some stupid charts and making sure I keep my numbers high.

Anyways, if you are really into finding your damage for a spec, test it on a training dummy and add the numbers by hand or calculator… It’s there for the people who wish to do so.

Elitism is already present in this game

I.E.: GLF all 80’s in exotics for speed run AC Path 1 – 3
hour in a half later
GLF1m All 80’s in exotics for speed run AC path 1 – 3

2 hours and 45 minutes later they finish while the mixed group of 80, 80 in exotics, 35, 64, 42 cleared story and path 1,2,3

It is a proven fact that Damage meters only bring in Trolls and Elitist Kittens. step into one WoW raid ( hell LFR ) and you will understand how Damage meters or meters in general have ruined MMO’s for a lot of people.

I vote no ON prop 5674

I don’t know what kind of metric would best describe someone’s contribution to the fight, but it certainly is not going to be a simple damage meter.

I am not sure if you can really accurately measure the value of the guardian cleansing conditions, the mesmer laying down clones to body block projectiles, the combo finishers that gives buff to allies, etc.

The only metric I can think of that might best encompass all these elements is just simply the time it took to beat a boss. If a group beats a boss 10 seconds faster than another group, then I would say the first group did better. However, that is a group metric, not an individual metric.

Perhaps ANet can introduce competition in PvE by implementing a weekly “ladder” type system for dungeons where groups try to get the best boss kill time.

That would encourage experimentation with different synergistic builds/professions.

nachtnebel.9168:

No.

Most people don’t know how to read a Damage Meter correctly and tend to rate other players by nothing else than their DPS which is poisonous for the community.

That is exactly my feeling on this. The OP’s post sounded, at least in my mind, that a DPS meter is all that’s needed to figure the good players from the bad which is certainly not the case. Communication is the biggest key to success in any scenario, you could have the hardest hitting toons in the game but if you don’t coordinate you’ll get pummeled fast.

Kaimick.5109:

Elitism is already present in this game

I.E.: GLF all 80’s in exotics for speed run AC Path 1 – 3
hour in a half later
GLF1m All 80’s in exotics for speed run AC path 1 – 3

2 hours and 45 minutes later they finish while the mixed group of 80, 80 in exotics, 35, 64, 42 cleared story and path 1,2,3

It is a proven fact that Damage meters only bring in Trolls and Elitist Kittens. step into one WoW raid ( hell LFR ) and you will understand how Damage meters or meters in general have ruined MMO’s for a lot of people.

I vote no ON prop 5674

Hence why ANet is not allowing add-ons to the game. They know it destroys communities, especially in a casual friendly game.

I don’t believe that a DPS meter will correctly see skill levels. However, gear inspection will see skill levels better.

A skilled player will avoid damage, a non-skilled player destroys DPS for survivability. The skilled player will not need toughness, vitality, healing power or any defensive stats if he never lost any hp. If the non-skilled player wore Berserker armor and died very often, it will be very easy to notice and you can kick them.

I used to raid and chase DPS meters. If i wasnt on world of logs I was pissed off. Cos in that game it was actually useful. In GW2 its not needed at all. It would create much more than it would ever resolve here.

Kaimick.5109:

runeblade.7514:

I don’t believe that a DPS meter will correctly see skill levels. However, gear inspection will see skill levels better.

A skilled player will avoid damage, a non-skilled player destroys DPS for survivability. The skilled player will not need toughness, vitality, healing power or any defensive stats if he never lost any hp. If the non-skilled player wore Berserker armor and died very often, it will be very easy to notice and you can kick them.

Gear does not equal skill, lol I as my guardian mitigated a AC explore boss ( the troll event ) better than the 80 guardian in HoTW gear. Please Gear = skill in a game that is not gear based. Take that WoWmentality back to WoW, hell even in WoW Gear doesn’t mean you have skill just means you have been carried enough times to get the gear.

Oh look someone using the very tired “go back to wow” BS. Just because you dont agree with his idea dont mean you have any right to act like you own the forums. Tbh every single time i see someone state they want someone to “go back to wow” Im plain just gonna report the post and move on. Cos such statements are plain pathetic.

Lutharr.1035:

Kaimick.5109:

runeblade.7514:

I don’t believe that a DPS meter will correctly see skill levels. However, gear inspection will see skill levels better.

A skilled player will avoid damage, a non-skilled player destroys DPS for survivability. The skilled player will not need toughness, vitality, healing power or any defensive stats if he never lost any hp. If the non-skilled player wore Berserker armor and died very often, it will be very easy to notice and you can kick them.

Gear does not equal skill, lol I as my guardian mitigated a AC explore boss ( the troll event ) better than the 80 guardian in HoTW gear. Please Gear = skill in a game that is not gear based. Take that WoWmentality back to WoW, hell even in WoW Gear doesn’t mean you have skill just means you have been carried enough times to get the gear.

Oh look someone using the very tired “go back to wow” BS. Just because you dont agree with his idea dont mean you have any right to act like you own the forums. Tbh every single time i see someone state they want someone to “go back to wow” Im plain just gonna report the post and move on. Cos such statements are plain pathetic.

I didn’t say go back to wow. you should learn to read properly.

I said that the thought process of Gear = skill is a mentality that MANY MANY wow players have, ergo Take that WoWmentality back to WoW. No where in there did I say go back to wow I just simply stated that, the thought process of Gear = skill belongs in wow and needs to stay there, cause in GW it is not about gear.

hands you a new soapbox there you go for your next rant at me

there are other ways to see that X player sucks…. really. you must decide by it’s actions, not by its dps

ex: player X still dps the boss while the rest of the party is downed or dead.

this is exactly my point Thank you DanH

A Damage meter or a inspect option doesn’t tell someone that X player is a good player.

Kaimick.5109:

runeblade.7514:

I don’t believe that a DPS meter will correctly see skill levels. However, gear inspection will see skill levels better.

A skilled player will avoid damage, a non-skilled player destroys DPS for survivability. The skilled player will not need toughness, vitality, healing power or any defensive stats if he never lost any hp. If the non-skilled player wore Berserker armor and died very often, it will be very easy to notice and you can kick them.

Gear does not equal skill, lol I as my guardian mitigated a AC explore boss ( the troll event ) better than the 80 guardian in HoTW gear. Please Gear = skill in a game that is not gear based. Take that WoWmentality back to WoW, hell even in WoW Gear doesn’t mean you have skill just means you have been carried enough times to get the gear.

You didn’t even read the post.

-Skilled player wear Berserker armor.

-Non-skilled players wear any kind toughness/vit/healing power/defensive stats armor to survive more.

-Skilled players don’t need defensive stats because they can avoid damage. Why bother wearing any other armor if a skilled player takes 0 damage in any kinds of armor.

-Non-skilled players that wear Berserker armor will die very often.

-Skilled players will contribute more DPS and then the boss will die faster.

You think that I am talking about checking Exotics/Masterworks/Rare/Blues and that is completely false.

runeblade.7514:

Kaimick.5109:

runeblade.7514:

I don’t believe that a DPS meter will correctly see skill levels. However, gear inspection will see skill levels better.

A skilled player will avoid damage, a non-skilled player destroys DPS for survivability. The skilled player will not need toughness, vitality, healing power or any defensive stats if he never lost any hp. If the non-skilled player wore Berserker armor and died very often, it will be very easy to notice and you can kick them.

Gear does not equal skill, lol I as my guardian mitigated a AC explore boss ( the troll event ) better than the 80 guardian in HoTW gear. Please Gear = skill in a game that is not gear based. Take that WoWmentality back to WoW, hell even in WoW Gear doesn’t mean you have skill just means you have been carried enough times to get the gear.

You didn’t even read the post.

-Skilled player wear Berserker armor.

-Non-skilled players wear any kind toughness/vit/healing power/defensive stats armor to survive more.

-Skilled players don’t need defensive stats because they can avoid damage. Why bother wearing any other armor if a skilled player takes 0 damage in any kinds of armor.

-Non-skilled players that wear Berserker armor will die very often.

-Skilled players will contribute more DPS and then the boss will die faster.

You think that I am talking about checking Exotics/Masterworks/Rare/Blues and that is completely false.

Ok my apologies that is how it came across to me.

Although what happens if I want to play my Guardian as a mitigation guardian that can stand there and take the hits, this is a viable aspect of the game Hench why there is armor and trait builds designed to do this.

Because my build supports this and this is how I want to play I am considered unskilled?

Because I don’t want to just hack and slash and dps I am considered unskilled ?

I can feasibly tank the champ troll in Orr with out having to kite him and never dying, does that mean I am un skilled ?

Kaimick.5109:

runeblade.7514:

Kaimick.5109:

runeblade.7514:

I don’t believe that a DPS meter will correctly see skill levels. However, gear inspection will see skill levels better.

A skilled player will avoid damage, a non-skilled player destroys DPS for survivability. The skilled player will not need toughness, vitality, healing power or any defensive stats if he never lost any hp. If the non-skilled player wore Berserker armor and died very often, it will be very easy to notice and you can kick them.

Gear does not equal skill, lol I as my guardian mitigated a AC explore boss ( the troll event ) better than the 80 guardian in HoTW gear. Please Gear = skill in a game that is not gear based. Take that WoWmentality back to WoW, hell even in WoW Gear doesn’t mean you have skill just means you have been carried enough times to get the gear.

You didn’t even read the post.

-Skilled player wear Berserker armor.

-Non-skilled players wear any kind toughness/vit/healing power/defensive stats armor to survive more.

-Skilled players don’t need defensive stats because they can avoid damage. Why bother wearing any other armor if a skilled player takes 0 damage in any kinds of armor.

-Non-skilled players that wear Berserker armor will die very often.

-Skilled players will contribute more DPS and then the boss will die faster.

You think that I am talking about checking Exotics/Masterworks/Rare/Blues and that is completely false.

Ok my apologies that is how it came across to me.

Although what happens if I want to play my Guardian as a mitigation guardian that can stand there and take the hits, this is a viable aspect of the game Hench why there is armor and trait builds designed to do this.

Because my build supports this and this is how I want to play I am considered unskilled?

Because I don’t want to just hack and slash and dps I am considered unskilled ?

I can feasibly tank the champ troll in Orr with out having to kite him and never dying, does that mean I am un skilled ?

If a player uses the same build, never dies and uses Berserker gear, then he will deal more damage and he is more skilled than you for not needing defensive stats.

Isn’t the purpose of being part of a team losing the definition of “me” and embracing the team as a whole? If you are slaying as a group who really cares if you are out DPSing another player? the whole idea of competing as an individual and measuring 1,2,3rd with in a team is counter productive. If you want to compete against players do WvWvW or sPVP.

DPS metres, tank metres are counter productive to being in an enjoyable group or team scenario imo.

runeblade.7514:

Kaimick.5109:

runeblade.7514:

Kaimick.5109:

runeblade.7514:

I don’t believe that a DPS meter will correctly see skill levels. However, gear inspection will see skill levels better.

A skilled player will avoid damage, a non-skilled player destroys DPS for survivability. The skilled player will not need toughness, vitality, healing power or any defensive stats if he never lost any hp. If the non-skilled player wore Berserker armor and died very often, it will be very easy to notice and you can kick them.

Gear does not equal skill, lol I as my guardian mitigated a AC explore boss ( the troll event ) better than the 80 guardian in HoTW gear. Please Gear = skill in a game that is not gear based. Take that WoWmentality back to WoW, hell even in WoW Gear doesn’t mean you have skill just means you have been carried enough times to get the gear.

You didn’t even read the post.

-Skilled player wear Berserker armor.

-Non-skilled players wear any kind toughness/vit/healing power/defensive stats armor to survive more.

-Skilled players don’t need defensive stats because they can avoid damage. Why bother wearing any other armor if a skilled player takes 0 damage in any kinds of armor.

-Non-skilled players that wear Berserker armor will die very often.

-Skilled players will contribute more DPS and then the boss will die faster.

You think that I am talking about checking Exotics/Masterworks/Rare/Blues and that is completely false.

Ok my apologies that is how it came across to me.

Although what happens if I want to play my Guardian as a mitigation guardian that can stand there and take the hits, this is a viable aspect of the game Hench why there is armor and trait builds designed to do this.

Because my build supports this and this is how I want to play I am considered unskilled?

Because I don’t want to just hack and slash and dps I am considered unskilled ?

I can feasibly tank the champ troll in Orr with out having to kite him and never dying, does that mean I am un skilled ?

If a player uses the same build, never dies and uses Berserker gear, then he will deal more damage and he is more skilled than you for not needing defensive stats.

but someone in berserk gear can’t do what I can do, also what you are saying is that there is only one way to play this game and in that if I don’t fit your “field of thought” then I am a poor player.

Ok well I guess I mis understood when Arena Net said
“Your Character Your Way Define your Biography and create your character form 8 powerful professions and 5 fascinating races.”

I would love to see a DPS in Berserk armor Tank a champ troll with out having to kite him.

Oh dear god, no. The last thing we need is a meter that lets people start bragging about how amazing they are and kicking people out of their group if they “suck”. Nor do we need something to encourage people to chase those great numbers instead of simply working together to finish a goal.

Electro.4173:

Oh dear god, no. The last thing we need is a meter that lets people start bragging about how amazing they are and kicking people out of their group if they “suck”. Nor do we need something to encourage people to chase those great numbers instead of simply working together to finish a goal.

+1 Vote no on prop 1245789645 the prop that gives us Gear score, gear check, Damage Meter, and elitist jerks that think they know what is better for everyones’ fun if we just do as they say, all this before they have to have their mom drive them to work at McDonalds.

I vote Yes lets have them along with a dungeon finder.
I always like to optimize my builds. Nice to know who isnt pulling their weight as well.
You need a gear check now for fractals anyway so I see no reason not to have this added on.
If people are bad then use the block function that is what it is there for.

No

PvE is not a competition.

If you want competition go to WvW or SPvP. If you win, you are good. If you lose, you suck.

Way to go, Lutharr! You just keep the ball of hate rolling!

I actually wrote a song about all you people who have nothing better to do than trash each other and nothing meaningful to say to begin with…

This message was brought to you by a Kitten with a Keyboard

robinsiebler.3801:

Way to go, Lutharr! You just keep the ball of hate rolling!

I actually wrote a song about all you people who have nothing better to do than trash each other and nothing meaningful to say to begin with…

This message was brought to you by a Kitten with a Keyboard

The irony of your attempt at trolling is not lost on me.

Perhaps I need more lessons from you?

This message was brought to you by a Kitten with a Keyboard

I could only think of one thing: WoW. So no.

Edit: Also I just don’t see the point of it. If you’re beating a dungeon then who cares about damage? Dunno. Just don’t see the use for a damage meter.

No, I think it’s a bad idea to show people’s damage — it only measures one fourth of what is important, which will cause people to overemphasize that single factor.

The designers called for a trinity of Damage, Support, and Control. If the game offers a way to measure only one of those, but not the other two, then people will tend to over-emphasize the importance of one part of the trinity. The fourth element is player skill and adaptability and I can’t imagine any meter doing justice to capturing the importance of that.

I don’t care if you said not to do it.. I’m gonna do it anyways.

“Please god no, don’t do this.”

This is only an excuse for MORE ELITEISM….

rajjy.4832:

I could only think of one thing: WoW. So no.

Edit: Also I just don’t see the point of it. If you’re beating a dungeon then who cares about damage? Dunno. Just don’t see the use for a damage meter.

One player is using his abilities and contributing to the group’s success, the other is autoatacking… But hey, you beat the dungeon, so it’s fine that the other guy did pretty much absolutely nothing, right?

Damage meters are something you have to take the good with the bad. They help in letting you play at your best, since they’ll let you compare your damage of different abilities and rotations. They’ll let you catch the guy contributing nothing to the group. But there IS the bad side, the fact that most people just don’t understand how to read that information and what it actually means.

When it comes to damage meters in most games (even WoW), if you contribte your fair share to the fight, then you have nothing to worry about. If you’re actually trying, most people aren’t going to rage at you because your damage wasn’t overpowered enough. I’m willing to bet that most of the people against damage parsers are the ones that autoattack, that don’t understand their abilities and what they do, and stuff like that. Stuff people should grasp before grouping in these games.

Yeah, let’s just ignore all support builds, we don’t need them! ALL HAIL THE DPS KINGS!