Dedicated Healer Bad - Debunked
No enrage timer, that only forces you to USE a deadicated healer and dedicated dps builds.
Also, just because a class is capable of healing does not mean people will be willing to act as healer for any amount of time. The DPS grunt mindset is strong even in GW2 and only those who naturally take the tank or healer roles in traditional MMOs ever act as support in GW2.
Lets face it, GW2 only has 2 roles.
Support: those who equip methods of healing, cleansing, and buffing others on purpose and keep an eye out on others. Also those who purposefully draw attention of a mob and begin kiting and LOSing it to act as a psuedo tank.
DPS: Those who basically only worry about self survival and how many big numbers they put out.
There are far more people in the 2nd catagory than the first.
One of the major design concepts of GW2 was that tank, dps and healer ‘classes’ would no longer exist. If you don’t like this idea then go back to WoW (or whatever) but stop trying to turn this game into yet another WoW type MMO!
Forever posting in legendary threads!
1.) The damages of a dungeon must be balanced such that 5 DPS classes who off-heal (not dedicated healing) can heal JUST enough to reasonably complete the dungeon assuming they properly execute the encounters.
-This ensures that while a dedicated healer is optional, it is NOT required.
Both your replies are invalid as you clearly ignored this specific condition I laid out.
Classes do not work the same. To begin with , some classes are not meant to be hit , some are meant to mitigate damage , not simple heal it all , and some are meant to heal the damage they take.
Granted each class got the power to do those things , but each class is more focused on something while being able to do the other options.
Anyway , we are all able to complete the dungeons atm , so i wonder what exactly is the point of this thread.
You want to make dungeons harder for some reason? Then no , i already dont agree with you.
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One of the major design concepts of GW2 was that tank, dps and healer ‘classes’ would no longer exist. If you don’t like this idea then go back to WoW (or whatever) but stop trying to turn this game into yet another WoW type MMO!
Why on earth mention WoW? Yes there were dedicated healers in WoW, but WoW was basically just a ripoff of previous MMOs back then (DAoC, EverQuest etc etc), with more user friendliness and incremental improvements.
Dedicated healers have existed long time before WoW entered the gaming universe.
Both of their replies are not invalid at all. One addressed the enrage timer and the fact that a dedicated healer will be rendered useless after some time. See RIFT and its support class role, save for edge cases in dungeons it is a useless role at all gear levels and its quite sad as it was a good idea. The other addressed the design concept of GW2 and a personal opinion, which is something you’ve stated as well. Thus both are not invalid.
With that said I also disagree with your idea.
- See RIFT example, if the dungeon can be completed without, then why would it be used.
- Players already accomplish the roles much as you said, with pseudo-roles. Consider how many groups desire a tanker or a support.
- Despite pseudo-roles I’ve seen many players build a solid build around these roles and accomplish them quite well, damage sponges and healers / (de)buffers.
- Also Despite Pseudo-Roles and their desire to have them in the group, I’ve seen many professions who “can’t” do that role, do it. Elementalists for example being a tanker or a warrior being a support.
- Lastly despite pseudo-roles and their desire I’ve also seen everyone having no role and accomplishing the dungeon just fine.
- With all of that said, this is the design Anet was aiming for. That you shouldn’t be punished ever for what profession you chose and you should be able do everything. (a fantastic idea that RIFT had but alas ended up falling a bit short on as things progressed in the first iteration of it.)
- Enrage timers are a bad thing I’d say. For one then it gets into gear. I understand your point of having them, so you can’t do minimal dps and just heal through it all, but that should be just as viable an option as having maximum dps with minimal healing. That balance you speak of would greatly alter the dynamics of groups. I’ve been in groups where we can finish a fight in no time flat, and in others where we’ve survived extended periods of time as everyone learned how to perform the mechanics properly and eventually clear it. I’d hate to be punished in those later groups for all that hard work I put in, and again, its still a viable strategy.
Ultimately I thoroughly enjoy the design choice ANet has gone with and I hope that they continue down that path in regards to profressions and how the relate in groups. I think its fantastic to have a use regardless of your build or profession. I think its fantastic that despite gear, level (in the areas that level you up), and build, as long as you play well you will do well. Granted the aforementioned always make it easier, the skill or play well do well idea is the emphasis here.
While the above is my argument against I will say that IF Anet decided to implement those role changes you’d be spot on for making it being able to be completed by any group of any composition, which is the case now despite some being more effective than others. I think that is your main point that we could have them and it wouldn’t muck up too much and definitely you are right but as I try and show in my arguments above that a change like this would not be for the better as where things are now there is a very happy and enjoyable medium.
Classes do not work the same. To begin with , some classes are not meant to be hit , some are meant to mitigate damage , not simple heal it all , and some are meant to heal the damage they take.
Granted each class got the power to do those things , but each class is more focused on something while being able to do the other options.
Anyway , we are all able to complete the dungeons atm , so i wonder what exactly is the point of this thread.
You want to make dungeons harder for some reason? Then no , i already dont agree with you.
1.) The damages of a dungeon must be balanced such that 5 DPS classes who off-heal (not dedicated healing) can heal JUST enough to reasonably complete the dungeon assuming they properly execute the encounters.
Quoting myself the last part states “assuming they properly execute the encounters.” This addresses all the items in the first portion of your post.
No I am not suggesting dungeons harder at all.
-Currently dungeons are completed with 5 DPSers who each contribute somewhat to healing.
-We allow for the OPTION for players to act as a dedicated healers if they want.
-Groups then have a CHOICE. “Do we want to play Guild Wars 2 style or do we want to play the traditional style?”
-Then to ensure healing can not be abused to make dungeons too easy, you put in enrage timers built around what groups are ALREADY capable of doing.
-If average 5 DPS groups out there now can defeat a boss in about 2 minutes you might put an enrage timer that kicks in at say 3 minutes.
-The average 5 DPS groups wont notice a difference because they already meet that requirement while conversely if we allow for the possibility of dedicated healing we ensure that it is not abused.
@Spec OP
No you are wrong. The concept is entirely a proportion of mathematics by nature.
-Consider a Boss fight with an average group of players with average gear who do an average job of mitigating damage through buffs and avoidance.
In a traditional Guild Wars 2 approach:
-Each player is contributing 80% of their efforts towards DPS (Damage Per Second)
-Each player is contributing 20% of their efforts towards HPS (Healing Per Second)
-Player 1 = 80% DPS / 20% HPS
-Player 2 = 80% DPS / 20% HPS
-Player 3 = 80% DPS / 20% HPS
-Player 4 = 80% DPS / 20% HPS
-Player 5 = 80% DPS / 20% HPS
The issue is nothing more complicated than mathematical proportions that easily can be reallocated:
-Player 1 = 90% DPS / 10% HPS
-Player 2 = 90% DPS / 10% HPS
-Player 3 = 90% DPS / 10% HPS
-Player 4 = 90% DPS / 10% HPS
-Player 5 = 40% DPS / 60% HPS
The issue is simply ensuring that dungeons can be reasonably healed by groups of 5 DPS who off heal (80% DPS 20% HPS for example)
The other issue is simply ensuring that healing can not be abused by enforcing a minimal requirement of DPS through enrage timers that already coincide with what players are ALREADY capable of.
My arguments work down to the specifics of mathematics. Until you can provide counter proof down to that same level your talking in fluff.
So yes, you and the other sister arguments are invalid.