Deployable waypoints in WvW.

Deployable waypoints in WvW.

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Posted by: Gmr Leon.1846

Gmr Leon.1846

TL;DR: Temporary deployable waypoints.
Cost: 7-9 silver.
Supply cost: 30-60 (preferably 30-40 to encourage use).
Time limit (i.e. lifespan): 45-60 minutes.
Destroyable and contestable via siege equipment only (see idea below).
Per team: 3 (may vary on balance, world status, or WvW area, see ideas below).


Search disclaimer: Ran some searches, didn’t find anything like this suggested yet, strangely enough. (Search terms used: WvW waypoints, waypoints, deployable waypoints, droppable waypoints.)

Basis for the Idea: Currently, WvW is pretty entertaining, but I think everyone might agree that while the movement to and fro areas adds to the element of strategy or tactics used (mainly, if in borderlands, play avoid the zerg, guerrilla war as much as possible, not sure how it pans out in Eternal Battlegrounds), those strategies and tactics aren’t too complex. Generally, someone forms a hit squad and strikes some targets to briefly capture them, but no real hold can be established.

So my idea is this:
Short-lived Deployable Waypoint Blueprints.

Detailing currency and supply cost: The cost, I think, should be around where it’s not too cheap to spam (like any other piece of siege equipment), and not too expensive to be prohibitive to use. Somewhere in the range of, say, 7-9 silver, might be good. The supply cost then, is another issue, and I think it’d be appropriate to fit it around maybe, 30-60 supply, and I’d argue, to go alongside the issue of cost prohibiting use, to keep it in the 3o-40 range, personally.

Detailing Time Limitations: The caveat to all of this is that these may last only a very short time, 45-60 minutes, tops, I think, might be good. You may already be thinking this is a bad idea to begin with, and that even a time limit wouldn’t be enough to prevent abuse, and I’d happen to agree, but knowing the nature of zergs, I realize that if these were merely made destroyable, they’d be down within moments after construction after being located. Considering that, I think it’d be entirely appropriate to make them capable of being countered and destroyed with ballista or catapults (as the players choose), thus adding a new element of strategy to WvW and allowing bottled up worlds to have a means of coming back with intelligent play.

Detailing contestability: Additionally, these waypoints would be incapable of becoming contested, unless fired down upon with siege equipment (further forcing anti-zerg measures and some additional cooperation amongst world members). Also, if this isn’t currently how keep waypoints function, I think that’s okay, as otherwise it would be even more difficult to get a foothold in enemy Borderlands. Deployable waypoints, by their nature though, would be time-limited, capable of destruction, and exposed, meaning they need a little more to make them worth using other than placement anywhere, they need to be a tiny beachhead from which to break your way back into the game.

No longer would the zerg have the overwhelming potency it currently possesses, unless it began to camp, which only opens up new opportunities for the other world or members of the same world they’re trying to root out, to produce new waypoints. That also contributes to forcing the zerg to split apart to ensure they maintain control over their structures.

Contemplating Per Team Deployment Limits: However, that in itself creates another problem, how many could be deployed at once? Per team, I’d say limit it to three, myself. This could be adjusted according to balance decisions, and possibly even on the situation of the team using them (more permitted to the team losing the most, for example, but only up to a certain limit). Right now I’m thinking along these lines: 3 for a winning team and in the Eternal Battlegrounds since I know little to nothing of how it plays. 6 for a middling team, but only in the Borderlands. 9 for a severely struggling team in the Borderlands.

Note: this is not across all Borderlands, just the specific World Borderland, meaning 3-9 deployable waypoints for each Borderland.

Arguably 9 is far more than should be necessary for any team (as well as 6 for that matter), but given that these worlds are losing, it stands to reason they may not exactly have the best players and some may use them in the worst locations imaginable thinking it’s good.

TL;DR: Temporary deployable waypoints.
Cost: 7-9 silver.
Supply cost: 30-60 (preferably 30-40 to encourage use).
Time limit (i.e. lifespan): 45-60 minutes.
Destroyable and contestable via siege equipment only (see idea above).
Per team: 3 (may vary on balance, world status, or WvW area, see ideas above).

Apologies if this has been posted before, as stated, I ran the searches and came up with nothing. If you read any of this, thank you, hope it made sense and that you at least thought it was mildly compelling!

Sincerely,
Grydd.

Grydd, asuran engineer perpetually gathering materials.
Member of The Archivists’ Sanctum [Lore], a guild for lore enthusiasts.
The Adventurer’s Log!

Deployable waypoints in WvW.

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Posted by: Cake Monster.7496

Cake Monster.7496

I vote no on this. It’s like everyone can portal.

Deployable waypoints in WvW.

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Posted by: runeblade.7514

runeblade.7514

Basically, it is cheaper, faster and more advantageous to build a WP in a keep than actually building the keep’s wp.

It is very durable, and no one can contest a wp in a tower. Plus, the zerg would be forced to waste 24 silver on a 9 silver object,

k.

5x Warrior, 5x Ranger, 4x Elementalist, 4x Engineer,
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant

Deployable waypoints in WvW.

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Posted by: Gmr Leon.1846

Gmr Leon.1846

Basically, it is cheaper, faster and more advantageous to build a WP in a keep than actually building the keep’s wp.

It is very durable, and no one can contest a wp in a tower. Plus, the zerg would be forced to waste 24 silver on a 9 silver object,

k.

It’s an idea, and not set in stone. I had seriously considered disallowing them from being placed in any structure (excluding exposed supply camps), and I still think that would likely be a very good idea, were this even implemented.

I vote no on this. It’s like everyone can portal.

If the concern is an insta-zerg from basically anywhere, there could be placed costs on using them, unlike the base waypoints. I hadn’t heavily weighed this option because I suspected, perhaps optimistically, that players would quickly slap a shutdown op on discovered deployed waypoints to prevent that from happening. However, that may certainly be expecting too much from random players, so if a usage cost would be thought to discourage overuse, I see no issues with implementing one, in all honesty.

Grydd, asuran engineer perpetually gathering materials.
Member of The Archivists’ Sanctum [Lore], a guild for lore enthusiasts.
The Adventurer’s Log!

Deployable waypoints in WvW.

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Posted by: Cake Monster.7496

Cake Monster.7496

A well formed group with set waypoints would decimate a map fairly quickly, if this was to be implemented.

Deployable waypoints in WvW.

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Posted by: Gmr Leon.1846

Gmr Leon.1846

A well formed group with set waypoints would decimate a map fairly quickly, if this was to be implemented.

That’s why there would be limits to the amount that could be put on the map by any World, and if it’s of a very high concern, lower the lifespan of it or make it destroyable via zerg (which practically removes its viability, in my opinion).

You must also keep in mind that these would require supply and for full effectiveness, would be wanted to be deployed in contested territory. If anything, the winning team could even be prevented from using them in their Borderlands, at all, or be limited to only one in each area, should that be a concern.

Grydd, asuran engineer perpetually gathering materials.
Member of The Archivists’ Sanctum [Lore], a guild for lore enthusiasts.
The Adventurer’s Log!

Deployable waypoints in WvW.

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Posted by: Cake Monster.7496

Cake Monster.7496

get the idea well formed, cost of teleportation, cost of buying, cost of supplies, amount of WP hitpoints, what is considered for it to be contested, and what restrictions on where it could be set, then i’ll revote, as of now, it doesn’t appeal to me.

Deployable waypoints in WvW.

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Posted by: Gmr Leon.1846

Gmr Leon.1846

get the idea well formed, cost of teleportation, cost of buying, cost of supplies, amount of WP hitpoints, what is considered for it to be contested, and what restrictions on where it could be set, then i’ll revote, as of now, it doesn’t appeal to me.

Why? That’s the developers’ job, not mine. My job is to give them my money (done!) then to occasionally provide feedback, either in detail or in concept. I’ve chosen a blend of detail/concept, with hopes the community might help hammer out the details, according to their interests and concerns.

The basic concept’s simple, after all, while the details are for both us to discuss and figure out and the devs to, if they want, fine-tune and implement. I mean, if I was being paid for this, I’d give it more detail and sort it out, but given the circumstances, I have no obligation (nor would it be practical) for me to expend more time than I already have on this idea without any certainty of it ever being adopted.

In other words: how would you choose to design this? What would you tweak? Why? Too much trouble to write? Well, I’ve provided my ideas as well as reasons and some additions in responses, seems only fair to ask similar from anyone else responding.

Grydd, asuran engineer perpetually gathering materials.
Member of The Archivists’ Sanctum [Lore], a guild for lore enthusiasts.
The Adventurer’s Log!

(edited by Gmr Leon.1846)

Deployable waypoints in WvW.

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Posted by: Cake Monster.7496

Cake Monster.7496

Cost of teleportation= 12 silver, Cost of buying= 8 silver, Cost of Supplies= 40, Hit Points of WP= Same as Cannon, Contested= Any Enemy in a certain radius, Set Restrictions= No underwater, No ledges, No Cliff sides, Cannot be deployed while in combat or with enemies around. See? not too hard to get those general ideas out. With this i would like it a little bit more, expensive, hard to get off, but used correctly can play a good role, but my vote is still no.

Deployable waypoints in WvW.

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Posted by: Gmr Leon.1846

Gmr Leon.1846

Cost of teleportation= 12 silver, Cost of buying= 8 silver, Cost of Supplies= 40, Hit Points of WP= Same as Cannon, Contested= Any Enemy in a certain radius, Set Restrictions= No underwater, No ledges, No Cliff sides, Cannot be deployed while in combat or with enemies around. See? not too hard to get those general ideas out. With this i would like it a little bit more, expensive, hard to get off, but used correctly can play a good role, but my vote is still no.

Oof, don’t know that I’d fix the cost of teleport (or at all) to that high, but then, maybe people playing more have that sort of expendable currency? If anything I’d keep the fluctuating distance-ish cost current waypoints have, as those tend to get expensive themselves.

No major disagreements on currency or supply costs.

Hitpoints: uncertain, not much experience with taking out cannons.

Area Deployment Restrictions: no major disagreements, not sure if other siege equipment can be deployed while in combat, so no disagreement there.

As to enemies around, how close are we talking?

Also, see, not too hard to adjust the idea rather than just discount it off hand.

Grydd, asuran engineer perpetually gathering materials.
Member of The Archivists’ Sanctum [Lore], a guild for lore enthusiasts.
The Adventurer’s Log!

Deployable waypoints in WvW.

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Posted by: Gmr Leon.1846

Gmr Leon.1846

Anyone else have any opinions on this, or changes they’d choose beyond simply not making this at all?

Grydd, asuran engineer perpetually gathering materials.
Member of The Archivists’ Sanctum [Lore], a guild for lore enthusiasts.
The Adventurer’s Log!