Guild Wars 2

2 things wrong with this theory from someone who played wow since start of beta.

1) People love listing the good points of the pre lfg community but forget the bad. Groups could literally take longer to create than to actually do the dungeon. If someone left it was a crushing blow cus you know you would have to port out and spam chat for another 15 mins while your mates sat in the dungeon twiddling there thumbs. Chat spam got to the point where you literally could not see the posts as they rushed past, you needed to stop your chat if you saw one you liked it.

2) People blame the tools for the wow community when really a major factor was the explosion in the size of the community meaning their were far more idiots than before. As you tend to remember the bad points as opposed to the good points this meant it felt like you were getting bad groups all the time even though you wernt. Also because of the increase in idiots some people actually did get a lot more of those groups. Tainted by the fact that they got unlucky. League of Legends had the same thing, if you didnt play in beta or early game you wouldnt realise that it had a pretty decent community till it exploded in popularity and the community went straight downhill due to the sheer amount of idiots.

Remember the amount of idiots in this game relative to you (1 person) gets higher when the game community gets bigger.

There is already a /LFG command and “Looking for Group” panel.
But it’s useless as it is, as you simply set yourself “LFG” and most people LFG to do something specific.

All that’s needed is making it save a line of text, or a listbox with all the things you can do in the area: dungeons, hearts, events, storyline qusets, etc plus an “anything” option for those just wanting to do stuff with people), so you can say what do you want to do.

But a “dungeon party finder” tool that automatically matches you with people would just dumb down the thing. It’ll be a .“’mindless party finder”.
GW1 had already its big deal of mindless farmers and speed clearers. There’s no need to make anything “mindless”.

MithranArkanere.8957:

But a “dungeon party finder” tool that automatically matches you with people would just dumb down the thing. It’ll be a .“’mindless party finder”.

So what?Do you consider finding a party by sifting through a list of people some sort of epic quest or something? Can you honestly explain why making me be placed in a group with four other people who just like me want to do a specific dungeon take less time and effort is a bad thing? It’s not like we’re gonna appriciate it, it just adds time to us wanting to do something and actually doing it.

I do not support cross server LFG.

With that said, whether you have LFG or not, people will still spam chat. Its just part of the game and not sure why it bothers anyone being that you will still see it used, whether it need be or not. I’ve seen much more aggravating things in chat.

I support the idea someone posted early on about a ‘waiting room’ (server specific) where people who were LFG could go, communicate and join up together.

I have had both good and bad experiences with groups that where made up from a LFG tool.

I am not a fan of standing in one zone spamming a chat channel.

I would like to see a good LFG tool at some point.

Well one thing that nobody brings up is PATHS….each Dungeon has several Paths in explorable, that and a lot of people will want to do all paths to feel like they have completed the dungeon. Now If you have to stand in the front of the Dungeon spamming chat for a group doing X Path, you might never find a group. Because its already happening, certain paths are getting a reputation as UN-finish-able and even if you get a group and go in, at the last second people can opt out of the path agreed to go in the first place.
Now a Dungeon Finder might help person A find person B,C,D, and E who all really really want to do that particular Path.

And NO amount of chat spamming is gonna make people be better or nicer players. Actually I believe it can fuel there malicious intent, I know I feel anger after you talk to people, then in the instance they change their minds. Furthermore; not all people who play this game has 6 hours of game play a day to dedicate to the game, because of our real life. It would be nice some days to get in get it done and get out. (now I will admit that I have played and let the time completely get away from me and payed for it the next day by going to work sleepy) But If I am standing around in the game, I am going to sleep at the keyboard.
I hope that Anet will come up with a better option that will suit the taste of all who participate with the game and their individual play styles and opinions. But for me I hope its for a Dungeon Finder.

edit: Another thing about the idea of a Place to form parties, they had this in GW1 it was called Embark Beach. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Embark_beach It was a great conceptual failure… people would come in grab the daily Zashien quest and go on. Rarely, very rarely did you ever see someone want to form a group there. If the Zashien Vanguish was for an area… that was the place you would see people spamming chat for a group.

A Dungeon Finder is that “Place” that you form a group." in that place"… why can you not see beyond that fact.

Agreed. This isn’t WoW and it shouldn’t be.

netox.5712:

I agree 100% with this alot of Games got Ruined by this.

cant think of a single one where LFG was not a positive contribution to the game that the playerbase did not overwhelmingly take up,.

Only a small minority of forumgoers seam opposed to it. In everygame its put in its uptake is massive.

RizziVanizzi.1532:

It just gives people who can’t be bothered with guild stuff, an option to find a PUG faster. How’s that bad?

Because, given path of least resistance, you need to force a modicum of socialization, or it will not be constructed by the players.

In other words the developers have a very real hand in shaping (not just providing a framework for) their social online communities.
Because, LFD had exactly that effect in WoW: It removed the need to try to be social. Without it, your server reputation mattered. If people know you’re bad, they won’t take you along. You can build a reputation, both good and bad, for dungeon runs.
Add LFD, and the lion share of dungeoning will happen with the tool, not via custom-built groups. Given the anonymity when the tool sorts the group, social reputation is now a non-issue. You can be a jerk, and when you click to queue the tool will sort you into a group again, just the same.

How is that a “win/win”?

I never got this “dungeon finder is bad for community”.
In every MMO I’ve played,dungeon finder made grouping and finding mates for dungeons,a lot more easier.
And every game that had no finder,because it’s players thought it would destroy the community,eventually got one,because the players demanded it!
In what way is spamming LFG in map chat,different than spamming item sales or spamming gold?(from a community point of view-I’m not saying spamming LFG is banable or wrong)
You spam LFG-you group up with players- get in the dungeon and fight.
What will happen after that,and whether players socialize and make friends etc etc has nothing to do with how they got to group up,given that we are talking about pugs.
Instead,a dungeon finder tool with some kind of a lobby function would make it a lot easier to group up,and a lot better for socializing.
In most dungeon finders as soon as the group is assorted you go in the dungeon and the fight begins.Usually players just say hellos and jump right in it.
If these players don’t want to socialize,the only difference without the
dungeon finder,is the LFG spams.
But what if there was a lobby,like as soon as the group is assorted,you get in a waiting zone for a couple of minutes,where you can greet,talk about roles and tactics etc,with the players you just met,and then get in the dungeon.
In what way would this harm the community?

Carighan.6758:

RizziVanizzi.1532:

It just gives people who can’t be bothered with guild stuff, an option to find a PUG faster. How’s that bad?

Because, given path of least resistance, you need to force a modicum of socialization, or it will not be constructed by the players.

In other words the developers have a very real hand in shaping (not just providing a framework for) their social online communities.
Because, LFD had exactly that effect in WoW: It removed the need to try to be social. Without it, your server reputation mattered. If people know you’re bad, they won’t take you along. You can build a reputation, both good and bad, for dungeon runs.
Add LFD, and the lion share of dungeoning will happen with the tool, not via custom-built groups. Given the anonymity when the tool sorts the group, social reputation is now a non-issue. You can be a jerk, and when you click to queue the tool will sort you into a group again, just the same.

How is that a “win/win”?

In WoW,if you have a bad reputation and you group up with people that don’t want to play with you,they kick you and in a couple of minutes they have a replacement via the dungeon finder.As it is in any game with a dungeon finder.
Also it never groups you up with people you ignore.
Dungeon finder is just a grouping up assist tool for pugs.
Instead of spamming LFG in the chat,the finder does that for you.
When you group up with people via chat spamming,do you get to interview them and see if they are nice people and good players?

well right now i cannot enjoy dungeon content because i cannot find a group…… I am lvl 80. what am i supposed to do? sit around outside the instance wasting my time or spam in lions arch? come on. you should be allowed to play this game your way and right now the lack of a LFG tool is ruining the dungeons for me as I simply cannot get a group for them. so what if it allows ppl to “zerg” or rerun dungeons as much as they want? that is a selfish argument if i ever heard one. i myself just want to experience thekittendungeon not farm it but let ppl do what they like. get a LFG tool ASAP. imagine there was no grouping tool for the sPVP ? yea….. think about it. major oversight in my opinion

Why not? This is how it goes now:

Charr: LFM AC!
Norn: LFG AC!
-they meet-
Norn: can i join?
Charr: invite
-when group full-
Go in dungeon and have fun together!

Now whats the point in having to spam LFG/M if you could just do it via a handy mechanic?

What’s wrong trading potential effectiveness to get a group quicker? It’s not like anyone is forcing you to use a DF. If you want a quality group, get your guild or create your own selective team. Half of what I see in /map is “LFG” spam that ends up with the same quality pug groups that a random DF would have gotten them. Except the DF would have been much faster and saved the rest of us from chat spam.

Pre-LFG tool in WoW, people were better. Groups didn’t suck. The simple act of having to talk with someone made it so they didn’t act like ankittenhat troll. Plus, they knew, if they got their character name noticed as being a jerk, the server community black-listed them. It’s why Leeroy Jenkins was such a meme, because what he did would have got him banned from any group playing with him.

Once you had the LFG tool make it so you could just get kicked out of a group and harass the next, people did so. Their name no longer mattered.

The LFG tool changed the way people interacted with each other for the worse. Raging quitting if 1 perceived mistake was made, knowing they could just hop into a new group.

LFG tools were not the only reason for a crappy community. The whole of mechanics made selfish play and trolling people more fun than being helpful. And if not having a LFG tool harasses those that would harass players, tough. They can do some Dynamic Events in the zone, while waiting for their group to form.

This right here people is the truth. Well put.

A LFG tool would be good if it works as follows

1. Only allowed you to team up with people on your own server.
2. Did not automatically teleport you to the dungeon once the group is formed.
3. Worked in a way that it did not automatically match you with people, instead it provided a GUI for people looking for a group. Flag yourself as LFG, add a comment to say which Dungeons you are looking for.

OliShoey.3071:

This right here people is the truth. Well put.

More like a bunch of BS-

OliShoey.3071:

A LFG tool would be good if it works as follows

1. Only allowed you to team up with people on your own server.

Guess you hate the current getup then since you can group with people from other servers. otherwise you’re just a hypocrite.

2. Did not automatically teleport you to the dungeon once the group is formed.

Guess you hate the current getup then since you can group with people from other servers. otherwise you’re just a hypocrite seeing as all you need to do is take the waypoint next to it and go in.

OliShoey.3071:

3. Worked in a way that it did not automatically match you with people, instead it provided a GUI for people looking for a group. Flag yourself as LFG, add a comment to say which Dungeons you are looking for.

And making that process automatic is bad because? It takes less time and is more efficient? Oh wait that’s a good thing. Really all you people seem to be ever so eager to say how bad it is to have a dungeon finder but you’re always unable to make valid arguments as to why and never want to answer arguments as to why a dungeon finder is a good thing. There has been numerous posts pointing out how chat spamming is not social and the superiority of a dungeon finder, all unanswered.

NornBearPig.9814:

What’s wrong trading potential effectiveness to get a group quicker? It’s not like anyone is forcing you to use a DF. If you want a quality group, get your guild or create your own selective team. Half of what I see in /map is “LFG” spam that ends up with the same quality pug groups that a random DF would have gotten them. Except the DF would have been much faster and saved the rest of us from chat spam.

They more than likely can’t and thus won’t answer that.

I’m a big fan of dungeon finders. However I could see it not working out so well in this game with how often you can die in these dungeons. With a dungeon finder people would always be leaving the group as if they were so much better than you because they could just instantly get in another group. I have yet to have someone get buttfrustrated and leave a group so far and i think this is due to the difficulty of getting in a group.

Having put together several groups though I have to say we need something to help get things going. This is because chat does not even allow us to find groups the old fashion way unless we get lucky and fill the group the first time we /m LF2m blah blah. I do not post in chat more than once per minute but in no time, I think about four posts and I get locked out of /m for several minutes for “spam”. One way or another I feel we need better tools to find a group.

Tolmos.8395:

I never understood this argument. The only difference between using an LFG tool and not is that one forces you to spam chat channels with “LFG LFG OMG LFG PLEASE LFG” for hours and the other is just a click of a button for multi-server grouping goodness.

The quality of players? Never seen it change. People sucked in groups pre-WoW lfg, sucked after. People didn’t really suck in groups pre-Rift lfg, didn’t really suck after.

I never got why people love to spam “LFG” all over the place, get maybe 1 run every few hours, and say “This is so much better than getting a 10 minute queue on a multi-realm LFG tool without having to spam channels! That would be so sucky!”

I found my guild in WoW by using the traditional grouping method pre-LFD. We all still play together across a large variety of games, 4 years later. I’m not sure if I would have met them with the LFD in place. This is definitely a place where your mileage may vary, but that’s my reason for being against an LFD system.

Both systems have their flaws. I do think the traditional system tends to build stronger server communities, though. Again, you might disagree, but that’s how I see it.

For me, it’s an issue of concurrency. Right now I don’t have trouble finding a dungeon group, but as the number of concurrent players drops and transitions more to endgame it will be a lot harder to find groups for lower level dungeons so I think a LFG system would be beneficial in the long run. For now I can find an AC team, but later on it will be tougher and tougher especially as more end game type content is added.

I would like to see a LFG tool as well. Not that I have had trouble finding groups but it allows the freedom to keep on doing your own thing while getting a group together. Standing around spamming LFG does not build community. The bad behavior argument is kind of moot in this game. What can a person do? They cant ninja anything, it is not possible. I know they can just be bad and cause problems but you get that without a LFG tool as well. This has become a standard in my opinion, and should be implemented. Also some ppl who are adults have things called jobs and can have limited play time and may not want to waste even 5 or 10 minutes standing around trying to find a group. Granted it doesnt take long yet, but I am sure it could become problematic in the future and should have a solution in place. Kind of like unlimited server transfers for the near term. This was brilliant! They knew a problem might arise so they had a solution ready. I think that this could help them prepare for when it may get harder to form a group.

im tired of spamming LFG/LFM when i want to do a dungeon and not being able to go play the game…

I am stuck in one place until I find a group, which takes anywhere from 30mins and up…

Auto Group Finder would be sweet so i can go play the game while the game finds a group for me!

I dont care if it doesnt port the group since we already have waypoints to port with…

i dont care if its cross-server since we already play with ppl cross-server…

the part that i care about is being able to go play the game WHILE i am LFG/LFM, and I cant do that right now…

so please, anet, add an Auto Group Finder for dungeons please? Thanks!

oh, and for you social community ppl, i have a guild and that is where my social community is, not in random PUG dungeon runs…

Same server, throw your name on a list, dungeon finder would be great. As much as I like this game, I really, really don’t like sitting in a zone i’ve already cleared just in case I can get in a group for the zone dungeon. I want to be able to post my class and dungeon of interest and then go to whatever zone pleases me.

Tharjax.9068:

I feel this tears down community and peoples need to communicate.

- I would agree for cross-server LFG but it doesn’t have to be
- Spamming map chat is “communicating”? This is the 21st century where we have billions of transistors under our desk to remove such less effective mundanities

Tharjax.9068:

Basically its best use is so people can zerg dungeons so they can keep re-running the dungeon in chance of a getting a piece of gear they want.

People will do that anyway, irrespective of a LFG tool. Besides, LFG tool doesn’t have to teleport everyone, just form the group.

Also, I think the gear sucks or is just for appearance anyway, no?

Tharjax.9068:

Honestly I am excited to meet people or meet guild mates at dungeons, its kind of like an “adventure” if you will.

So your guild is, basically, a narrowly-scoped LFG tool?

I would use a server-wide LFG tool; it would facilitate my further involvement in the server’s community rather than hole-up in a 50-person-or-so one and its web site calendar making a dental appointment.

Rolo.9248:

- I would agree for cross-server LFG but it doesn’t have to be

Lol, grouping can already be done cross server so that point is moot to begin with. Not to mention that doesn’t “destroy” a community, it expands it. Basically all the negative shebang prople twist and scream about that a cross server LFG would bring about according to them is already in place.

There is no need for this in GW2.
If you solo and aren’t part of the bigger community then you can’t do this one small part of the game. There are plenty of events. There is plenty of explore.
Make a few friends then you can do that very minute part of the game.

Daily.5381:

There is no need for this in GW2.
If you solo and aren’t part of the bigger community then you can’t do this one small part of the game. There are plenty of events. There is plenty of explore.
Make a few friends then you can do that very minute part of the game.

So I should have to rely on the presence of a handful of people to access dungeons? What if they aren’t online, or just don’t want to do a dungeon at the time? I shouldn’t have to be best friends with whatever person I do a dungeon with.

So if my handful of people I know better available for whatever reason I should resort to tedius chat spamming and being forced to sit in a specific zone, because you say so, you have no arguments for it but we should have it that way because, you say so.

Get real.

Daily.5381:

There is no need for this in GW2.
If you solo and aren’t part of the bigger community then you can’t do this one small part of the game. There are plenty of events. There is plenty of explore.
Make a few friends then you can do that very minute part of the game.

i have a guild and friends – when no one is available to run dungeons with me i am supposed to just not run them according to you?

you are ignorant

how about you go play the game the way you want to and stop telling me i have to play it the way you want to?

Dungeon finder is one of those quality of life additions that I really hope continues with the future of MMOing. I’m tired of the days when the only way to get groups was to SPAM “LFG” over and over and over and over, flooding everyone’s screens, for hours on end until you finally get 5 people together at once (only to have one suddenly have to log since you’ve been waiting so long…). On top of that, having your entire fate tied to your server, to where if the population of your server drops then you are completely SOL.

This is, for all intents and purposes, a “Serverless” game. Yes, we have worlds but those world boundaries in PvE mean absolutely nothing. Guilds are cross server, friends list and whispers are cross server, guest passes later will allow you to bounce around visiting friends on other servers- an LFG tool should be the same.

To not use an LFG tool, or to use one and make it one of the only things in the game that is NOT cross server, is a huge step backwards. Forcing everyone into the archaic practice of having to scream “LFGLFGLFGLFGOMGLFG!!!!1!!!ONE” is really just a test of patience more than a “community building” exercise.

So yea, I definitely vote +1 to the LFG tool.

I don’t care for the WoW version of random dungeon finder. Making it so you are paired with randoms through a system. What I do feel should be added is a (server only) world lfg system much like the local one. Maybe players can list what they are interested in. Or at least a lfg channel people can advertise in that’s not by zone but by server. Kind of sucks sitting the zone of the dungeon waiting for groups or Lions Arch. A least people can say (ex) “LF2M TA”, and people can see it regardless of what zone they are in. Although I fear people would turn that into a global chat channel. IDK.

What if the LFG was located AT the Dungeon of your choice, and it only queued you for THAT Dungeon? (No sitting in the capital spamming while zones lay dead)

If you want to do Ascalonian Catacombs, you better hike out there and click the NPC (or be presented with a GUI) to enter the LFG Queue. Dungeons are a more involved affair in this game, at least the Explorable Mode, so involving a bit of effort and commitment (travel expenses) will ensure that people are more determined to finish and actually make the run worthwhile.

Similarly, I disagree with making it cross-Server for this game. Server Pride! The exception would belong to the Overflow Servers… they’re a real pain to dance through right now, and the first 20 minutes of my last dungeon group was spent just trying to all enter the same instance. Having the LFG identify your true Home Server, and group you with folks from there no matter where you currently were, would probably be best.

/2cents

We don’t need a dungeon finder, we just need a better looking for group tool. One that lets you specify what it is you are looking to do. Then you can see who else is looking for the same thing and group up with them. That’s pretty much what they had in GW1. Right now all the LFG tool lets you do is list your name.

After my experience with cross-realm LFG finder in WoW, I would like for it not to be in Guild Wars. Yeah, I realize bad groups were around long before the LFG finder came along, but that’s not my reason for not wanting it. I can deal with bad groups. What I disliked about LFG finder was how it seemed to take a little bit away from a server’s community. Before LFG finder came along I met many people (many who became good friends during my time in WoW) during dungeon runs. When LFG finder was released that stopped. I’d be grouped with random people from random servers. You’d be lucky if someone even said “hello” during most runs. We’d finish the dungeon and then never see each other again. Also, if someone behaves badly or plays poorly in a dungeon on their home server then they earn a bad reputation for their actions. This is not the case when you’re involved in a LFG finder group. The worst that usually happens is the person behaving/playing badly gets kicked or someone may call you out on the forums, which I think is against Blizzard’s TOS so it gets deleted pretty fast.

With all that said, I wouldn’t mind a LFG finder as long as it is NOT cross-realm.

Why do the LFD supporters ignore suggestions? I keep seeing you all just repeating “spamming chat channels with lfg” as your argument.

Non lfd supporters have at least come up with options/possible solutions, but are brushed under the rug and down right ignored because it doesn’t go along with your idea. I read it all, and I am imagining a bunch of grown men, putting their fingers in there ears and going “lalalalalalala, I can’t hear you!”

I am honestly beginning to wonder why you all are so against a server only, player controlled system. Something more functional than chat channel, but not so blind hand holding do it for me system. Something in between.

We all know this kind of system holds players accountable for their actions/behavior. That you get server reps, either good or bad, and you get treated accordingly. And seeing some of the aggressive and hostile responses from certain people….It does make one wonder if that isn’t a reason they want to be anon with their cross server grouping features.

And don’t tell me, if I don’t like it don’t use it, I played WoW, I have tried forming my own groups outside of LFD and I got slammed with “shut ups” and “use LFD, stop spamming” (Which I wasn’t mind you, I wasn’t sending out messages one right after another.) Great community, over there in WoW. Great lfd feature. Get people who can’t even manage to say hi. Or they just stand there and refuse to do anything for no other reason but to grief the group. Abuse of vote kick. Just generally act like a bunch of kittens. Because they can. Because it is cross server and they know they won’t face any consequences.

If you can’t step outside of what you want to try to come up with a creative middle ground, then all I can say is, if your not part of a solution, then you are part of the problem.

daemonlama.5413:

Why do the LFD supporters ignore suggestions? I keep seeing you all just repeating “spamming chat channels with lfg” as your argument.

Non lfd supporters have at least come up with options/possible solutions, but are brushed under the rug and down right ignored because it doesn’t go along with your idea. I read it all, and I am imagining a bunch of grown men, putting their fingers in there ears and going “lalalalalalala, I can’t hear you!”

I am honestly beginning to wonder why you all are so against a server only, player controlled system. Something more functional than chat channel, but not so blind hand holding do it for me system. Something in between.

We all know this kind of system holds players accountable for their actions/behavior. That you get server reps, either good or bad, and you get treated accordingly. And seeing some of the aggressive and hostile responses from certain people….It does make one wonder if that isn’t a reason they want to be anon with their cross server grouping features.

And don’t tell me, if I don’t like it don’t use it, I played WoW, I have tried forming my own groups outside of LFD and I got slammed with “shut ups” and “use LFD, stop spamming” (Which I wasn’t mind you, I wasn’t sending out messages one right after another.) Great community, over there in WoW. Great lfd feature. Get people who can’t even manage to say hi. Or they just stand there and refuse to do anything for no other reason but to grief the group. Abuse of vote kick. Just generally act like a bunch of kittens. Because they can. Because it is cross server and they know they won’t face any consequences.

If you can’t step outside of what you want to try to come up with a creative middle ground, then all I can say is, if your not part of a solution, then you are part of the problem.

why are we not listening to suggestions from players who dont want to use an auto group finder?

because we dont want to play with people who dont want to use an auto group finder – we only want to play with people who want to use an auto group finder.

we know what we want and what we enjoy and we are not trying to insist that players use an auto group finder if they do not want to nor enjoy using one

however, players that do not want to use nor enjoy using an auto group finder ARE trying to insist that players should NOT use an auto group finder and instead should play the game the way they want to and enjoy playing it

so,. we continue to ask anet for an auto group finder for players LIKE US who wish to use one and just IGNORE players who try to insist we should not use an auto group finder and tell them to go find players LIKE THEMSELVES to play with (without using an auto group finder of course if they wish)

daemonlama.5413:

Why do the LFD supporters ignore suggestions? I keep seeing you all just repeating “spamming chat channels with lfg” as your argument.

Non lfd supporters have at least come up with options/possible solutions, but are brushed under the rug and down right ignored because it doesn’t go along with your idea. I read it all, and I am imagining a bunch of grown men, putting their fingers in there ears and going “lalalalalalala, I can’t hear you!”

I am honestly beginning to wonder why you all are so against a server only, player controlled system. Something more functional than chat channel, but not so blind hand holding do it for me system. Something in between.

We all know this kind of system holds players accountable for their actions/behavior. That you get server reps, either good or bad, and you get treated accordingly. And seeing some of the aggressive and hostile responses from certain people….It does make one wonder if that isn’t a reason they want to be anon with their cross server grouping features.

And don’t tell me, if I don’t like it don’t use it, I played WoW, I have tried forming my own groups outside of LFD and I got slammed with “shut ups” and “use LFD, stop spamming” (Which I wasn’t mind you, I wasn’t sending out messages one right after another.) Great community, over there in WoW. Great lfd feature. Get people who can’t even manage to say hi. Or they just stand there and refuse to do anything for no other reason but to grief the group. Abuse of vote kick. Just generally act like a bunch of kittens. Because they can. Because it is cross server and they know they won’t face any consequences.

If you can’t step outside of what you want to try to come up with a creative middle ground, then all I can say is, if your not part of a solution, then you are part of the problem.

Really great post I am glad you took the time to write that.

I see the argument of people being level 80 and cannot find groups, just remember that only a handful of people are level 80 right now since the game is so new.

Also, I agree to some extent of some form of dungeon finder for groups on that server.

Actually I think the idea was mentioned already, but having a chat channel for each dungeon would be a great way for people to find players, and heck even talk about the dungeon!

I mean think about it from a social aspect, you are wanting to run AC so you join the AC channel where there is 30 other people in the chat room. You can’t tell me that this wouldn’t work? It would allow for a lot of good socialization from the gamers and heck even some tips and general knowledge about the dungeon.

I am kind of appalled by the reaction of the supporters of the LFD finder. You guys have come across very brash and may I even say “mean”?

I was trying to simply give an opinion with my past experience with dungeon finders and why I believe that the WoW dungeon finding system is inferior. Ya, it may be more convenient, but that doesn’t always mean it’s better.

Thanks for the thoughtful replies on the subject, there may be a middle ground that we can come to.

Crica.1503:

daemonlama.5413:

Why do the LFD supporters ignore suggestions? I keep seeing you all just repeating “spamming chat channels with lfg” as your argument.

Non lfd supporters have at least come up with options/possible solutions, but are brushed under the rug and down right ignored because it doesn’t go along with your idea. I read it all, and I am imagining a bunch of grown men, putting their fingers in there ears and going “lalalalalalala, I can’t hear you!”

I am honestly beginning to wonder why you all are so against a server only, player controlled system. Something more functional than chat channel, but not so blind hand holding do it for me system. Something in between.

We all know this kind of system holds players accountable for their actions/behavior. That you get server reps, either good or bad, and you get treated accordingly. And seeing some of the aggressive and hostile responses from certain people….It does make one wonder if that isn’t a reason they want to be anon with their cross server grouping features.

And don’t tell me, if I don’t like it don’t use it, I played WoW, I have tried forming my own groups outside of LFD and I got slammed with “shut ups” and “use LFD, stop spamming” (Which I wasn’t mind you, I wasn’t sending out messages one right after another.) Great community, over there in WoW. Great lfd feature. Get people who can’t even manage to say hi. Or they just stand there and refuse to do anything for no other reason but to grief the group. Abuse of vote kick. Just generally act like a bunch of kittens. Because they can. Because it is cross server and they know they won’t face any consequences.

If you can’t step outside of what you want to try to come up with a creative middle ground, then all I can say is, if your not part of a solution, then you are part of the problem.

why are we not listening to suggestions from players who dont want to use an auto group finder?

because we dont want to play with people who dont want to use an auto group finder – we only want to play with people who want to use an auto group finder.

we know what we want and what we enjoy and we are not trying to insist that players use an auto group finder if they do not want to nor enjoy using one

however, players that do not want to use nor enjoy using an auto group finder ARE trying to insist that players should NOT use an auto group finder and instead should play the game the way they want to and enjoy playing it

so,. we continue to ask anet for an auto group finder for players LIKE US who wish to use one and just IGNORE players who try to insist we should not use an auto group finder and tell them to go find players LIKE THEMSELVES to play with (without using an auto group finder of course if they wish)

Thank you for demonstrating the exact attitude I and others have been referring to.

And this is the type of self entitled, hostile, self serving attitude that breeds perfectly in an a automatic lfd. This is why WoW’s is so miserable to use.

You act like this in game with a player controlled system that is server only…and you would find it extremely difficult to find groups. And that is why I like that more. So I am not forced to endure auto group after miserable auto group filled with this type of attitude.

If you read my entire post, you would see that in fact, people are forced into using it, because making a group in WoW using the only other option which is chat, you get attacked, and heckled. I know with a couple of my attempts they would go at me so hard for trying to form my own group, that the chat was moving at light speed.

To me, what I am reading from this post of yours is that you really don’t care about the betterment of GW2 or of it’s community. Anyone who really cared would try to work with the community to come up with a whole new system that everyone could enjoy. And it actually improve the community.

Stop living in the past. LFG does not “tear down communities” it means you don’t have to spam in a capital city for 10 minutes to find a group.

nonsense.5204:

Stop living in the past. LFG does not “tear down communities” it means you don’t have to spam in a capital city for 10 minutes to find a group.

Again, someone else who refuses to acknowledge possible solutions that people have talked about. And you are either lying to yourself, or blind to think that WoW’s LFD didn’t aid in the breakdown of community. There is no community there. Its all one big cluster of people who group up once, never to be seen again.

And WoW’s LFD isn’t exactly new, it is in the past itself. I feel ANET, when they do implement a new LFG tool, it will be in their own creative way. And not some copy/paste.

They do not depend on monthly subs, so no one can hold anything over their heads. They are free to basicly do what they see fit. No amount of whines or threats will work here, not for you or for me. They already got our money when we purchased the game.

DavidGX.1723:

Agreed. This isn’t WoW and it shouldn’t be.

Dumbest statement that can find it’s way on this forum, IMO.

We might as well stop using swords, shields, axes and other weapons found in WoW, instead let’s make a random shape and call it a new weapon, so GW2 won’t be WoW.

Stop writing bull and making things harder for the other players and the developers themselves.

Why not get the best of both worlds? There’s already a LFG tool in game, sort of. It’s just that you can’t really customize anything.

Here’s my suggestion: Make the LFG tool like a short form that you fill out. In this form you state, for example:

• What type of content you’re looking for (dungeons, vistas, pve, tpvp, spvp, wvw, etc)
• You can fill out in which zones you’re interested in finding a group and/or perhaps level of content (e.g. +50).
• If dungeons are chosen above, then you can also fill out specifically which dungeons you’re looking for
• Your LFG status is automatically updated, so that if you join a group the LFG tag is removed, and if the group disbands, you get the option to put it up again
  … and so on

Now, if I’m interested in starting a group for dungeon x, I would simply pop up the LFG-window, search for people of appropriate level and who are LFG for that dungeon, and then send them a message in whisper and ask them if they wish to join my group.

Also, there could be a “LFM” tag for groups, in similar fashion to LFG for players. So if my group has a spot to fill, I could simply add my group as LFM and state what we are looking for x (e.g. level, class) and content y (e.g. dungeon, zone, etc). That way, LFG players can easily find us.

The way I see it, this would make it easier to get groups together, but it would not remove the need for communication/community part of grouping. In fact, it might even encourage it, as people who want to group up for content that typically does not require a group (e.g. exploring) will be able to find like minded players more easily.

TL;DR: Improve the LFG system already in game by adding more options, such as type of content one is looking for, level of content, in which zones, etc.

Yeni.1924:

OliShoey.3071:

3. Worked in a way that it did not automatically match you with people, instead it provided a GUI for people looking for a group. Flag yourself as LFG, add a comment to say which Dungeons you are looking for.

And making that process automatic is bad because? It takes less time and is more efficient? Oh wait that’s a good thing. Really all you people seem to be ever so eager to say how bad it is to have a dungeon finder but you’re always unable to make valid arguments as to why and never want to answer arguments as to why a dungeon finder is a good thing. There has been numerous posts pointing out how chat spamming is not social and the superiority of a dungeon finder, all unanswered.

Because quite simply and I say simple yet clearly you failed to grasp what we are getting at which is to keep the process social instead of providing a tool that encourages people to behave like ****’s. By not automatically grouping people you force people to interact thus giving them a choice about who they group with. As a result of this people who constantly quit on dungeon groups because they cant handle wiping can be weasled out by word of mouth and therefore not invited to groups.

this.

and add lfg channel and lvl range chans 1-10 ; 11-20 ; 21-30 and so on for groupin purpose

I have no interest in seeing a cross server LFD tool in this game.

LFD does not change the quality of the player, no, but it does negatively influence people’s behavior, which is precisely what is wanting to be avoided. As others have stated, the anonymity that cross-server LFD tools bring encourages far too much negative behavior and I’ve no interest seeing it in this game. Primarily, it makes it too easy to decide a group sucks and bail and instantly get a new group, which is not something I want to see happen in every single group I’m in, something that isn’t unrealistic given the dungeons’ difficulty.

It doesn’t take that long to organize a group in this game, and as others have stated, sitting in the cities waiting for LFD pops would inevitably become the standard. I also find it a little funny that the comment about people being impatient, sarcastic, and vulgar is far more true than it should be.

That said, I would like an LFG channel to consolidate people seeking groups and removing noise from map chat. Also, dungeon rewards do cost a lot, but ANet’s intent is for every dungeon to be end-game content, essentially, so I’m unsure if any of it would change (it does feel awfully grindy, though, which is only contributing to the LFD problem.)

I agree with you.

The LFG tool is the reason I dont play WoW anymore. WOTLK really ruined it for me.
I find that there is an adequate amount of challenge in this game and I would like to keep it this way.

OliShoey.3071:

Yeni.1924:

OliShoey.3071:

3. Worked in a way that it did not automatically match you with people, instead it provided a GUI for people looking for a group. Flag yourself as LFG, add a comment to say which Dungeons you are looking for.

And making that process automatic is bad because? It takes less time and is more efficient? Oh wait that’s a good thing. Really all you people seem to be ever so eager to say how bad it is to have a dungeon finder but you’re always unable to make valid arguments as to why and never want to answer arguments as to why a dungeon finder is a good thing. There has been numerous posts pointing out how chat spamming is not social and the superiority of a dungeon finder, all unanswered.

Because quite simply and I say simple yet clearly you failed to grasp what we are getting at which is to keep the process social instead of providing a tool that encourages people to behave like ****’s. By not automatically grouping people you force people to interact thus giving them a choice about who they group with. As a result of this people who constantly quit on dungeon groups because they cant handle wiping can be weasled out by word of mouth and therefore not invited to groups.

Your post is based on the assumption people dont just form groups accepting whoever replies to chat spam first. Which is usually the case. No lfg, is actually more antisocial as you are forced to just stand round spamming chat, rahter than taking part inthe game.

Cameirus.8407:

OliShoey.3071:

Yeni.1924:

OliShoey.3071:

3. Worked in a way that it did not automatically match you with people, instead it provided a GUI for people looking for a group. Flag yourself as LFG, add a comment to say which Dungeons you are looking for.

And making that process automatic is bad because? It takes less time and is more efficient? Oh wait that’s a good thing. Really all you people seem to be ever so eager to say how bad it is to have a dungeon finder but you’re always unable to make valid arguments as to why and never want to answer arguments as to why a dungeon finder is a good thing. There has been numerous posts pointing out how chat spamming is not social and the superiority of a dungeon finder, all unanswered.

Because quite simply and I say simple yet clearly you failed to grasp what we are getting at which is to keep the process social instead of providing a tool that encourages people to behave like ****’s. By not automatically grouping people you force people to interact thus giving them a choice about who they group with. As a result of this people who constantly quit on dungeon groups because they cant handle wiping can be weasled out by word of mouth and therefore not invited to groups.

Your post is based on the assumption people dont just form groups accepting whoever replies to chat spam first. Which is usually the case. No lfg, is actually more antisocial as you are forced to just stand round spamming chat, rahter than taking part inthe game.

This spamming chat argument used against non supporters is not a valid one, since no one is fighting for that.

The solution people are looking for, (even though it has been said over and over):

1. a lfg popup window that is server only
2. it shows a list of players/lvls/descrip of what they want to do. (ie AC(S))
3. the list is server wide, so you can use it anywhere in the world.
There is no standing in the city, no standing at the dungeon waiting. People can be anywhere in the world, doing whatever they want and see and be seen. And NO SPAMMING CHAT CHANNELS.

4. You scroll through looking at who is looking for AC(S) and click a “ask to join” button, which prompts that person that “Player wants to join group” they can either choose to accept or deny. (Again, giving the player control over who they group with. Having control is a good thing btw)

5. With it being server only, it will create community because people will get to know each other, because we only be group with others on our server. Reputations will be built.

IMO, LFG tool is needed.

daemonlama.5413:

Cameirus.8407:

OliShoey.3071:

Yeni.1924:

OliShoey.3071:

3. Worked in a way that it did not automatically match you with people, instead it provided a GUI for people looking for a group. Flag yourself as LFG, add a comment to say which Dungeons you are looking for.

And making that process automatic is bad because? It takes less time and is more efficient? Oh wait that’s a good thing. Really all you people seem to be ever so eager to say how bad it is to have a dungeon finder but you’re always unable to make valid arguments as to why and never want to answer arguments as to why a dungeon finder is a good thing. There has been numerous posts pointing out how chat spamming is not social and the superiority of a dungeon finder, all unanswered.

Because quite simply and I say simple yet clearly you failed to grasp what we are getting at which is to keep the process social instead of providing a tool that encourages people to behave like ****’s. By not automatically grouping people you force people to interact thus giving them a choice about who they group with. As a result of this people who constantly quit on dungeon groups because they cant handle wiping can be weasled out by word of mouth and therefore not invited to groups.

Your post is based on the assumption people dont just form groups accepting whoever replies to chat spam first. Which is usually the case. No lfg, is actually more antisocial as you are forced to just stand round spamming chat, rahter than taking part inthe game.

This spamming chat argument used against non supporters is not a valid one, since no one is fighting for that.

The solution people are looking for, (even though it has been said over and over):

1. a lfg popup window that is server only
2. it shows a list of players/lvls/descrip of what they want to do. (ie AC(S))
3. the list is server wide, so you can use it anywhere in the world.
There is no standing in the city, no standing at the dungeon waiting. People can be anywhere in the world, doing whatever they want and see and be seen. And NO SPAMMING CHAT CHANNELS.

4. You scroll through looking at who is looking for AC(S) and click a “ask to join” button, which prompts that person that “Player wants to join group” they can either choose to accept or deny. (Again, giving the player control over who they group with. Having control is a good thing btw)

5. With it being server only, it will create community because people will get to know each other, because we only be group with others on our server. Reputations will be built.

Actually if you scroll back through quite a way you will see that my original post was aimed at this kind of system also which is the type of system you have highlighted and I would agree with.

My reply above was simply in response to the person who had responded and miss interpreted what I was trying to say.

OliShoey.3071:

daemonlama.5413:

Cameirus.8407:

OliShoey.3071:

Yeni.1924:

OliShoey.3071:

3. Worked in a way that it did not automatically match you with people, instead it provided a GUI for people looking for a group. Flag yourself as LFG, add a comment to say which Dungeons you are looking for.

And making that process automatic is bad because? It takes less time and is more efficient? Oh wait that’s a good thing. Really all you people seem to be ever so eager to say how bad it is to have a dungeon finder but you’re always unable to make valid arguments as to why and never want to answer arguments as to why a dungeon finder is a good thing. There has been numerous posts pointing out how chat spamming is not social and the superiority of a dungeon finder, all unanswered.

Because quite simply and I say simple yet clearly you failed to grasp what we are getting at which is to keep the process social instead of providing a tool that encourages people to behave like ****’s. By not automatically grouping people you force people to interact thus giving them a choice about who they group with. As a result of this people who constantly quit on dungeon groups because they cant handle wiping can be weasled out by word of mouth and therefore not invited to groups.

Your post is based on the assumption people dont just form groups accepting whoever replies to chat spam first. Which is usually the case. No lfg, is actually more antisocial as you are forced to just stand round spamming chat, rahter than taking part inthe game.

This spamming chat argument used against non supporters is not a valid one, since no one is fighting for that.

The solution people are looking for, (even though it has been said over and over:(

1. a lfg popup window that is server only
2. it shows a list of players/lvls/descrip of what they want to do. (ie AC(S))
3. the list is server wide, so you can use it anywhere in the world.
There is no standing in the city, no standing at the dungeon waiting. People can be anywhere in the world, doing whatever they want and see and be seen. And NO SPAMMING CHAT CHANNELS.

4. You scroll through looking at who is looking for AC(S) and click a “ask to join” button, which prompts that person that “Player wants to join group” they can either choose to accept or deny. (Again, giving the player control over who they group with. Having control is a good thing btw)

5. With it being server only, it will create community because people will get to know each other, because we only be group with others on our server. Reputations will be built.

Actually if you scroll back through quite a way you will see that my original post was aimed at this kind of system also which is the type of system you have highlighted and I would agree with.

My reply above was simply in response to the person who had responded and miss interpreted what I was trying to say.

Oh yea, I wasn’t aiming for you. I read your post and agree with you.

daemonlama.5413:

And this is the type of self entitled, hostile, self serving attitude that breeds perfectly in an a automatic lfd. This is why WoW’s is so miserable to use.

No, WoW is miserable to use because of WoW’s grind. I don’t think most folks repeat the same dungeons 100 times because its just soooooo much fun but in order to progress, they have to; it’s work and not fun and that surely leads to community curtness.

To say this will happen in GW2 is insulting to GW2 and its community.