Guild Wars 2

Buff single target.

I get the problem being described, that in many cases it’s better to deal damage to a lot of enemies than to deal damage to one, but nerfing AoE damage is the worst way of dealing with that.

The fact remains that when faced with several opponents, taking each out one at a time means you’ll usually be dead before the second one drops. And when hitting single enemies, if AoEs deal less damage than they do now then it means that in many cases half or more of your available abilities will become practically worthless, greatly reducing current single target DPS.

So if you feel there is a disparity between AoE and single target attacks, fix it, but don’t fix it by hurting AoE moves. Take the AoE moves as the intended level, AoE moves are working right, and then raise single target damage to be better than they are. If you absolutely positively must nerf AoE in some way, don’t do it in a way that would make AoE attacks deal less damage to a single target.

It serves no purpose, but to decimate your playerbase. So, just cancel that nonsense.

Learn from Warhammer online. They did the exact same thing and it only made things worse. Why? Melee trains, nuff said.

And instead of nerfing, buff the UP things. Balance is boring and, speaking directly, you’ll never reach e-Sports. It’s just beyond your grasp. So just make the game more fun by buffing Engis/Necs/Rangers instead of whittling the game Down to Guardians n Warriors 2(GW2).

Some heartfelt concerns from a GW1 fan. If you continue Down this road, which I fear to thread, you’ll have lost a customer(and sooner than you think!).

Please forego the AoE nerf and wild goose chase that is e-Sport and focus on the true qualities of the game(and of the franchise).

Thank You for your time.

I agree. Nerfing isn’t the way to balance things. That’s how D3 died and turned so many loyal D1&2 fans to anti-D3 haters. AoE is barely overused or overpowered, cooldown is slow and people could easily avoid it. It’s those thief burst damage that you guys should look into. Stop nerfing the already weak class!

AoE is UNDERPOWERED. Do they even play the game? It feels like WoW with Druids all over again. Well people if you were playing anything but warrior or a glass cannon damager throw your character away. Necros are already only mediocre. You’re essentially making staff build useless right there. Engineers and Guardians depend on AoE’s (bombs, healing circles).

I can’t speak for every class but I can relate my experience as an Engineer.

I use a grenade kit (AoE) on everything. Not because grenade kit is so good, but because most of my other options are AoE but worse, or single target, but do pathetic damage. I’d gladly use a single target weapon or kit that gave the same level of control, did 25% more damage, and wasn’t subject to annoying carpal tunnel syndrome inducing ground targeting spam even on the first skill, but ANET has seen fit not to provide such an option.

The only single target weapon or kit I really have is the elixir gun, and while it’s great for applying weakness, heals, curing conditions, etc, it absolutely sucks for doing damage. They’re pretty much have to quadruple the damage to make it a worthwhile single target choice.

My warrior has primarily single target or very small area AoE, and he does spectacular damage. I use the rifle instead of the longbow in spite of the total lack of AoE because ground targeting is easy to dodge out of. I use a greatsword in melee, but that’s because there’s a trait for GS that gives me a stack of might every single time I crit. If my rifle,axe, or one hand sword could do that, I’d never put it away.

I’m sure they’ll carefully balance the aoe in this game. They have to consider the professions that are mostly stuck to AoE, like the elementalist. Maybe a good solution is to give them more single-target attacks? Or maybe AoE will scale down in damage when it hits more than one foe, but keep its full damage if it only hits a single foe? Or maybe – better yet – deal less damage to the second target and on, so that skills like Dragon’s Tooth do not lose their single-target spiking power?

Also, they’ve said they’re also buffing weaker skills/ traits, and no, only buffing without nerfing anything is not a good thing: it leads to a situation called Power Creep, where every character becomes broken. You must have a healthy balance between buffs and nerfs.

DiogoSilva.7089:

I’m sure they’ll carefully balance the aoe in this game. They have to consider the professions that are mostly stuck to AoE, like the elementalist. Maybe a good solution is to give them more single-target attacks? Or maybe AoE will scale down in damage when it hits more than one foe, but keep its full damage if it only hits a single foe?

Also, they’ve said they’re also buffing weaker skills/ traits, and no, buffing only without nerfing anything is not a good thing: it leads to a situation called Power Creep, where every character becomes broken. You must have a healthy balance between buffs and nerfs.

But AoE’s are worthless right now! Try a staff on a necro or an ele. 4/5 abilities are AoE’s and they do close to no damage. Knowing that they’re nerfing a broken mechanic is upsetting. May I ask what will they buff? Warriors? Thieves in full beserker gear doing backstab while invisible for 14K damage?!

DiogoSilva.7089:

I’m sure they’ll carefully balance the aoe in this game.

Because all their past changes/nerfs have been so carefully thought out……….. oh wait.

DiogoSilva.7089:

I’m sure they’ll carefully balance the aoe in this game. They have to consider the professions that are mostly stuck to AoE, like the elementalist. Maybe a good solution is to give them more single-target attacks? Or maybe AoE will scale down in damage when it hits more than one foe, but keep its full damage if it only hits a single foe? Or maybe – better yet – deal less damage to the second target and on, so that skills like Dragon’s Tooth do not lose their single-target spiking power?

Also, they’ve said they’re also buffing weaker skills/ traits, and no, only buffing without nerfing anything is not a good thing: it leads to a situation called Power Creep, where every character becomes broken. You must have a healthy balance between buffs and nerfs.

Weakening the ele in any way is a massive nerf in general. The ele is meant to AoE and if they weaken AoEs based on number of enemies it hits then they might as well make them single target because I’m going to be very upset when my damage is even more pathetic because a huge horde of enemies attacked me. Imagine being even weaker soloing in Orr?! If they want to weaken ANY ele attacks then they might as well get rid of the ele because we lose a lot from any change to AoE.

Now, one interesting question occured to me:

Why don’t they simply split the skills on PvE and PvP version? At least then you’d be able to play 33% of content normally(Hey it’s better than 0%).

I will stick with my D/D Ele build no matter the nerf.
Even if they nerf all the abilities I will still play the D/D build to show Arenanet, polity, that it isn’t OP but player Skill is OP.
you cannot change players skill by nerfing.

AoE Nerf, stupidest Idea someone has had, if there was an award for it it would go to arenanet.

Make Ele builds more viable and you will see less QQ about bunker builds (We chose D/D…because arenanet nerfed all other builds) and maybe then you will see it comes down to player skill & having more options open to others.

“Play the game your style” nope.

-A D/D Ele who will show Player skill is OP and not spells that are OP, while polity asking anet to stop nerfing stupidly (D/D Ele movement…)

wait why are AoEs being nerfed?

Gorwe.9672:

And instead of nerfing, buff the UP things. Balance is boring and, speaking directly, you’ll never reach e-Sports.

I’ve seen many games destroyed in the name of Balance. Balance does lead to boring predictable gameplay with no tactics.

Imbalance creates exciting unpredictable gameplay. As long as each side has it’s own strengths and weaknesses to the other side. (ex. in old Socom’s Seals had the best weopans while terrorists had the map advantage.)

roostapro.9827:

I will stick with my D/D Ele build no matter the nerf.
Even if they nerf all the abilities I will still play the D/D build to show Arenanet, polity, that it isn’t OP but player Skill is OP.
you cannot change players skill by nerfing.

AoE Nerf, stupidest Idea someone has had, if there was an award for it it would go to arenanet.

Make Ele builds more viable and you will see less QQ about bunker builds (We chose D/D…because arenanet nerfed all other builds) and maybe then you will see it comes down to player skill & having more options open to others.

“Play the game your style” nope.

-A D/D Ele who will show Player skill is OP and not spells that are OP, while polity asking anet to stop nerfing stupidly (D/D Ele movement…)

Actually Mythic Entertainment(creators of DAoC and WAR) did it before and yes, they destroyed their game with it. I am sad that ANet is keen on walking down that Path(not good).

Onshidesigns.1069:

I’ve seen many games destroyed in the name of Balance. Balance does lead to boring predictable gameplay with no tactics.

Imbalance creates exciting unpredictable gameplay. As long as each side has it’s own strengths and weaknesses to the other side.

This, there’s a theory in game design that you should leave some imbalance in. This vid explains it well:

I hope Anet devs and people with some business sense reads this. I sincerely hope that this is viewed as constructive criticism.

All these nerfs, and re-balancing chips away at players’ patience because every time one comes, it forces them to re-optimise an existing character instead of exploring the breadth and depth of the game. Constant nerfs and re-balancing do NOT generate any fresh appeal to the game.

This is not a smart thing to do in 2013 because of all the upcoming MMORPGs that are coming up, that can easily draw away these players. Although GW2 does not earn subscription based revenue, a smaller player base also chips away from all the gems purchase.

When it comes to nerfs, re-balancing etc, Devs need to take a more holistic view of the situation and not just have knee-jerk reactions to QQs. With the number of nerfs I’ve seen, it appears to be the latter.

Ultimately, players who play MMORPGs want to feel empowered, to take on the world or Tyria. Nerfs do the OPPOSITE of that, and that detracts from the players’ experience.

On the more holistic view, devs need to take a long hard look at having a policy that guides when something needs to be nerf. That bar HAS to be higher than just forum QQs, and has to answer difficult questions what caused it and whether it breaks the game. It cannot be reduced to just branding it as either OP or UP.

Any MMORPG will have class balancing issues. There will never be a perfect balance, and there will never be an end to QQs about not achieving that balance. Instead of searching for that holy grail that does not exist, game designers should consider focusing more on what makes a class enjoyable and special; the player exerience.

GW2 had been doing well in this regard: Engineers have kits; Mesmers have clones; rangers have pets; necros have skeletons in the closet; and etc. But now, it seems that GW2 is trudging down that same destructive cycle of buffing and nerfing, which I reiterate, detracts from player experience.

So the questions I have about the AoE mechanics nerf or any nerf: Does the present situation break the game? And to what degree? And how do you address the player experience if you do nerf it?

My 2 cts as someone who had been playing MMOGs since the days of text-based MUDs.

morrolan.9608:

DiogoSilva.7089:

I’m sure they’ll carefully balance the aoe in this game.

Because all their past changes/nerfs have been so carefully thought out……….. oh wait.

Outside of a few exceptions… yes, they have been spot on. Or do you truly think the buff to D/D eles was not carefully thought on, for example?

They might make mistakes, but you don’t need to be a game designer to realize that this is a complex issue, and you can’t simply throw a random, general nerf into it.

morrolan.9608

Thanks for that video! That’s awesome.

morrolan.9608:

Onshidesigns.1069:

I’ve seen many games destroyed in the name of Balance. Balance does lead to boring predictable gameplay with no tactics.

Imbalance creates exciting unpredictable gameplay. As long as each side has it’s own strengths and weaknesses to the other side.

This, there’s a theory in game design that you should leave some imbalance in. This vid explains it well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

Good video on ’Perfect Imbalance". It explains what I was talking about well. I only watched the one on “power creep” before seeing this.

Perfect Imbalance would be LoL. A fun and addicting game.
Perfect Balance would be Starcraft 1. Also fun and addicting in its own way.

What is the problem here? All the devs that are massacring their games in the name of Balance. O hallowed be thou, our Supreme Balance.

;)

This, there’s a theory in game design that you should leave some imbalance in. This vid explains it well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w[/quote]
Added video to my signature.

Issue with buffing damage in anything but PvE, you make classes with less survivablity less plausible. Also don’t forget that many of the player claims of classes being OP deal with single target classes. Imagine thieves and warriors doing more damage than they do now. Buffing is not always the option.

Zaphael.8694:

Ultimately, players who play MMORPGs want to feel empowered, to take on the world or Tyria. Nerfs do the OPPOSITE of that, and that detracts from the players’ experience.

Thank you for making this point. I know I play games so I can forget that I’m too helpless to do anything worthwhile in the real world. Then, I get in game only to be mauled to death by some over-sized grubs or some other seemingly-mundane-thing-turned-gigantic/“threatening”.

I’ve said this to my guild at least a thousand times, by now, but I’ll say it again, here: I miss the HELL out of City of Heroes. For all of its flaws, at least I actually felt like I had power.

Could be ANet got clued in on that video of 5 elementalists holding back a zerg at a chokepoint and felt that was not how the game should be.

If ANet really want to nerf AOE they need to increase CC effectiveness in PVE roaming considerably, so that whenever you face down 2+ mobs (and that is more often than not) you can keep at least some out them out of the battle while dealing with the rest.

If they want people to stop using AoE so much, stop throwing masses of mobs and discourage zerging. The challenge of 1 super power mob vs 5 less powered mobs is exactly the same, except one encourages one play style, and the other encourages another. The issue doesn’t lie with the skills, it lies with the metagame.

digiowl.9620:

Could be ANet got clued in on that video of 5 elementalists holding back a zerg at a chokepoint and felt that was not how the game should be.

.

Why shouldn’t it be like this though? that’s what I don’t understand. What better way to break up a mass zerg than a few eles throwing down mass aoes? Why try and force people to play the game down a very narrow minded tunnel? Also, as my main is “was” an ele, I am getting sick of never feeling powerfull..I command the elements for god sakes! I should feel amazing! Things like this is one small way of making you feel usefull and unique….Oh well…I will draw final conclusions when the actual patch goes live. But tbh, Anet have done themselves NO favours with this vague and reckless statement regarding aoe. Talk about putting your foot in your mouth and chewing it off!

honestly, there arent enough skills to nerf aoe damage.

many skills in guild wars are doing double duty, or even triple duty, you may have an aoe, that is also a condition, that is also your best damage outside of the 1 button. If you nerf that skills damage, you end up losing your single target dps as well.

Also, in general i wouldnt want really weak aoe attacks.

As far as pve, AOE is great more because of simple monster behavior than anything.

make monsters smarter, pack melee mobs with ranged mobs, make more enemies that move.

Now if your going to add skills you can swap out for certain weapons, sure nerf aoe, then its a choice, but as of now
you basically got 5 skills, if 1 is basic decent damage, 2 is aoe decent damage 3 is defensive 4 is condition stacks and 5 is damage/movement, you basically simplified DD to only use 1, only use 2 if there is 4 mobs.

which makes play more likely to be 1 1 1 1 1 1 1, now if i could choose to swap out a weak aoe 2 for a useful single target damgage 2, i wouldnt have a problem with that, but with current system, i would go around nerfing too much, there is only 5 skills on a bar.

Too many classes are AoE heavy with very weak single target options. You can’t just nerf AoE on a broad scale and expect good things to come from it. If the goal is to enrage a massive portion of your player base, that’s a good way to do it… especially when most of the community complaints in PvP revolve around things like thief single target burst damage.

Might as well remove staff weapon from Elementalist.

Just because you may get several of those Elementalists clustered, doesn’t mean you should nerf their weapon attack.

This will off balance the game more than before.

GG…

digiowl.9620:

Could be ANet got clued in on that video of 5 elementalists holding back a zerg at a chokepoint and felt that was not how the game should be.

If ANet really want to nerf AOE they need to increase CC effectiveness in PVE roaming considerably, so that whenever you face down 2+ mobs (and that is more often than not) you can keep at least some out them out of the battle while dealing with the rest.

The problem in that video was not aoe, it was the zerg was full of stupid people and the people holding the choke point were actually smart and played tactics well….trust me, I’m part of the dumb kitten server that got their butts handed to them in that video (a bunch of PvE noobs that think they know tactics).

Overbalancing just pursues the path of conforming to a particular gameplay style. This is what playes will do if you tread that path ANet. Eventually you will get only one type of character roaming GW2 and it will boil down to having best gear that deals best DPS…did someone say ASCENDED?

Guardian Of Tyria.6397:

digiowl.9620:

Could be ANet got clued in on that video of 5 elementalists holding back a zerg at a chokepoint and felt that was not how the game should be.

If ANet really want to nerf AOE they need to increase CC effectiveness in PVE roaming considerably, so that whenever you face down 2+ mobs (and that is more often than not) you can keep at least some out them out of the battle while dealing with the rest.

The problem in that video was not aoe, it was the zerg was full of stupid people and the people holding the choke point were actually smart and played tactics well….trust me, I’m part of the dumb kitten server that got their butts handed to them in that video (a bunch of PvE noobs that think they know tactics).

THANK YOU. Balance at the upper 1/4 to 1/5 of skill level…do not balance the game to fit the needs of the unskillful.

90% of the elementalist weapon skills are AOE.

Elementalist damage-to-survival ratio is mediocre at best (which is why every ele specs 0/x/x/30/30) and NOTHING compared to warriors or guardians.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

Might as well remove staff weapon from Elementalist.

Just because you may get several of those Elementalists clustered, doesn’t mean you should nerf their weapon attack.

This will off balance the game more than before.

GG…

You mean EVERY weapon.

Even scepter is technically an aoe weapon, and every attack that’s not a leap in dagger is an aoe.
Nerfing aoe is relegating elementalist to the dustbin of history.

Issue with buffing damage in anything but PvE, you make classes with less survivablity less plausible.

Then also buff survivability. Having played a number of the lighter classes out there, I can definitely agree that there’s a lot of room to temper the glass cannons a bit.

If they’re going to be tampering with player attack damage then the goal shouldn’t be to balance it against player HP, it should be to balance it against mob HP. If that then makes it unbalanced against player HP then you tweak player HP.

If they are primarily worried about WvW balance then their changes should have nothing to do with PvP, and should be involved in giving players more defensive tools to counter AoEs.

Imagine thieves and warriors doing more damage than they do now. Buffing is not always the option.

Neither is nerfing though, because most AoE abilities, and the builds that rely on them, rely on what damage they have, and would not be viable with noticeably less damage.

Why shouldn’t it be like this though? that’s what I don’t understand. What better way to break up a mass zerg than a few eles throwing down mass aoes?

True. One thing that I DO think would benefit the game with AoEs is better feedback about them. To a player being attacked, you mostly just see a big red ring. Now, is that a red ring that will damage me the second I enter it, or one that won’t damage me for five seconds? Is it a ring that will kill me the instant it goes off, or one that will tick me for negligible damage as long as I’m in it? A red ring is a red ring, unless you have the luxury of paying close attention to a lot fo subtle effects and know all the various moves.

It would be helpful if they had bigger clues, like maybe a second ring within the ring that starts at the edge and moves to the center as an attack approaches, like as a treb shot gets closer the inner ring collapses, so you know to roll right as it reaches the center. If the inner ring is pulsing then you know it’s a steady pulse of damage. Alternately it could color shift, like it starts out yellow, for neutral, and then shifts through orange to red as the effect approaches, only being fully red when it’s capable of dealing damage.

Maybe make the size of the border ring indicate damage potential, if it’s a broad outline, like several times the default width, then it would be an insta-gibb type attack, run like hell. If it’s just the normal little ring then it’s chip damage, avoid it if you can but don’t let it mess with you if you have business inside.

They could do a lot to make AoE’s more user friendly.

you basically got 5 skills, if 1 is basic decent damage, 2 is aoe decent damage 3 is defensive 4 is condition stacks and 5 is damage/movement, you basically simplified DD to only use 1, only use 2 if there is 4 mobs.

Or take, as an example, Ele DD Fire, that’s 1 Cone AoE, 2 cone AoE, 3 line AoE, 4 field AoE, 5 cone AoE, which move are they meant to be using?

Death Reincarnated.3570:

Might as well remove staff weapon from Elementalist.

Just because you may get several of those Elementalists clustered, doesn’t mean you should nerf their weapon attack.

This will off balance the game more than before.

GG…

Yeah, because all of our combo fields are totally worthless unless they do high damage.

giving players more defensive tools to counter AoEs.

you mean like dodge, or aegis, or running, or walking?

how about just putting more than a red boundary on them, how about putting a red tint on the entire area to give a better cue.

Players who lick windows instead of getting out of aoe should not be catered to, but at the same time, large radius AOE in a zerg is very hard to spot due to the terrible marker.

how about ANET just make the entire radius red and see how well players do adjusting to that before destroying the entire meta by borking many weapon sets and entire professions by making their damage worthless?

you mean like dodge, or aegis, or running, or walking?

Sure, but if they don’t believe those are enough, then more could be helpful, like more abilities that have Reflect (and making sure all Reflect abilities work on ground target AoEs).

@ plasmacutter.2709 Sorry, meant in my case, but yes, in general, every weapon pretty much.

@Zantetsuken.9051 Sorry, I don’t follow.

This nerfing looks to be because several instances of players, found that they can overpower zergs with AoE. This gets nerfed, then players will focus on another offensive character attribute – and watch how this will also get nerfed. In the end all ANet is doing, in general, is nerfing the gameplay as a whole. This is not the first time such a nerfing occured.

You don’t even know what they mean by “Nerf AOE” yet. Is it all aoe? It might just be a subtle reduction to melee cleave autoattacks.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

@ plasmacutter.2709 Sorry, meant in my case, but yes, in general, every weapon pretty much.

@Zantetsuken.9051 Sorry, I don’t follow.

This nerfing looks to be because several instances of players, found that they can overpower zergs with AoE. This gets nerfed, then players will focus on another offensive character attribute – and watch how this will also get nerfed. In the end all ANet is doing, in general, is nerfing the gameplay as a whole. This is not the first time such a nerfing occured.

This is what is absolutely hilarious to me.

The playerbase found solutions to zerging, and instead of letting it play out and STOP the zerging problem, ANET is killing it.

It’s the dumbest thing i’ve seen since the cataclysm healing fiasco.

AoE is a brainless, effortless, riskyless way to play.
AoE nerf will be more than welcome.

Daendur.2357:

AoE is a brainless, effortless, riskyless way to play.
AoE nerf will be more than welcome.

it’s riskless to stand as a 5 man team against 30 or 40?

zerging is brainless, effortless, and riskless — just like bullying the unpopular kid in school.

nerfing the counter to zerging is the stupidest thing to do.

I was about to give anet 20 more dollars after going a couple months without handing them anything over lost shores and their continued DR system. Now I’m shopping for new titles. I will not stick around if this goes live.

even WOW does a better job of countering zerging.

Daendur.2357:

AoE is a brainless, effortless, riskyless way to play.
AoE nerf will be more than welcome.

i have noticed quite a lot of thieves are the ones posting about wanting aoe nerfs. I just can’t imagine why that is…can you?

Hi everyone,

Due to the amount of threads appearing on the “AoE Nerf” issue, we are trying to keep the forums organised. We are going to forward here those threads or posts that are agianst the AoE changes.

For your interest, we have also created this thread for those of you who wish to discuss with data and arguments the AoE mechanics https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Is-AoE-actually-a-problem-Discussion-Thread/page/2#post1234658.

Please try to be as polite and constructive as possible and refrain from any kind of non acceptable behaviour.

Thanks for your understanding.

The only problem I see with an AOE nerf in PVP (in PVE I can somewhat justify it) is dealing with Clones/Phantasms and Stealth, since the best way to deal with those two OP mechanics is AOE, by nerfing AOE you make those OP mechanics even more OP which doesn’t make any sense.

A possible solution, if that AOE nerf nonsense reaches PVP, if you nerf AOE let’s say by 20%, add +20% damage to anyone using Stealth and on Clones/Phantasms, that way, at least in PVP it won’t be as bad.

Gorwe.9672:

Now, one interesting question occured to me:

Why don’t they simply split the skills on PvE and PvP version? At least then you’d be able to play 33% of content normally(Hey it’s better than 0%).

I have wondered this for a while now because I play a main mesmer in PvE and have had to adapt to many changes to my class because of complaints in PvP

As for the AOE nerf, I also have a staff ele and an enigineer…..
What I want to know is how on earth are we supposed to kill multiple mobs in your face in PvE without effective AOE? I thought that was it’s purpose?
Orr is going to be such fun after this :P

Gorwe.9672:

It serves no purpose, but to decimate your playerbase. So, just cancel that nonsense.

Learn from Warhammer online. They did the exact same thing and it only made things worse. Why? Melee trains, nuff said.

And instead of nerfing, buff the UP things. Balance is boring and, speaking directly, you’ll never reach e-Sports. It’s just beyond your grasp. So just make the game more fun by buffing Engis/Necs/Rangers instead of whittling the game Down to Guardians n Warriors 2(GW2).

Some heartfelt concerns from a GW1 fan. If you continue Down this road, which I fear to thread, you’ll have lost a customer(and sooner than you think!).

Please forego the AoE nerf and wild goose chase that is e-Sport and focus on the true qualities of the game(and of the franchise).

Thank You for your time.

I agree completely by what is stated above. AOE is fine and could even do with a buff, do NOT nerf AOE.

I’m a staff elementalist and I enjoy it somewhat in dungeons.

Don’t nerf AoE in PvE and dungeons. If you believe it’s a huge problem in PvP then so be it. It’s already difficult to hit with ’em since mobs runs faster than you. We got some skills to keep the enemy in place for a few secs so the AoE abilities to deal some damage (3 CC fields) which are on really high cooldown.

I’d like to see the developers run difficult dungeons with engineers and staff elementalists. Without any tanky players (guard/warr) holding aggro for you, let’s see you try hit mobs with lava font and maintaining any good damage compared to other proffs.

Should have a timed dungeon race: Developers using engis and staff eles vs. 5 hardcore PvE players with guards/warrs. That would be a good laugh.

Hey think positively, Hundred Blades is AoE skills.

So this went from the please post here: – to the suggestion Forum?
Ok bump for justice.
Please do not nerf Aoe- the implications for many class builds and open PvE is enormous- just read the thread for details :p