Guild Wars 2

In general, we Rangers don’t ask for much. If you scope the Ranger forum (which I personally don’t think a mod has done in a while) you’ll notice all we want are extremely long-awaited, significant fixes that still haven’t been resolved (i.e. pets not hitting moving targets especially in pvp/wvw, terrible longbow with useless auto-attack, amongst others). We don’t even ask for a general power-boost, despite us being the least-desirable profession for dungeon runs because of our comparatively weaker damage output.

We are already one of the ‘bottom three’ classes (i.e. Ranger, Engineer, Necromancer).

It seems that when the ‘elite classes’ (that term seems to be taking off as of late) such as Elementalists, Mesmers, Warriors and Guardians complain that an aspect of the Ranger is ‘overpowered’ (most probably because they lost in a duel in pvp or wvw), ArenaNet takes notice and hurries to reassure the elites that their sanctity will remain intact on the battlefield, so they will nerf the Ranger – the lower profession.

Going off what a Mod said recently about nerfing Ranger pet damage later this month.

Our pets currently have shoddy AI. When fighting another player they are incredibly easy to dodge, and, if you are mobile they probably won’t hit you anyway. It is not known exactly what proportion of a Ranger’s damage output comes from the pet as it can vary between builds, but it is generally considered to be around 30%.

That means we are 30% weaker than the other professions when our pets are swanning off somewhere of their own accord.

The Jaguar is one of the few pets that redeem our truly terrible damage output (even with a full glass cannon berserker build), as it can potentially output some nice damage. Emphasis on ‘potentially’ for reasons stated above.

The next ‘big patch’ is supposedly a balancing job. HOW on EARTH is it ‘balancing’ if they are planning to nerf one of the (if not THE) weakest profession in the game?

Weakest profession in the game, funny, Necro and Warrior would like to say hello to you on ALL of your points. They are the two most broken (trait, ability and utility wise) out of every class in the game, while rangers currently remain one of the strongest bunkers with little to no effort required. You have a PASSIVE pet that has MORE stats than a human can possibly get for no draw backs or downsides (i’ll refer you to GW1 where having a pet required a skill in order to even have the pet with you, which is how it needs to be in GW2). Please, ranger weakest profession? go read the necro/warrior forums and then do try and make this thread with a straight face.

Edit: Your pets can hit for 800+ crits on full tanks and all you have to do is put the pet on guard and tell it to attack every so often, your damage is far from terrible, as for pets that deal damage, your Drakes should not be ignored (COUGH ABSURD TANKS WITH HUGE DAMAGE COUGH). Oh and you’re complaining about pet AI that follows it’s target across the universe till it dies, have you seen necro minions? they stand there while their master is dying to someone, let alone thieves who absolutely break their AI entirely, you can control your pets, AI is nearly unnecessary, just micro a little bit, it’s not hard.

Bryzy you’re pointing to requests for nerfs in pvp and then saying rangers are too weak in pve. These are different issues. If you go into competitive pvp you will find that rangers are highly used and yes, in pve they’re not terribly desirable but these are different balancing issues and the pve problem is because almost all pve content is as simple as faceroll zerker builds so the ‘best’ classes just do the most dps to a stationary npc and many of the mechanics that a ranger/engi/necro can accomplish or support don’t get considered.

Bryzy.2719:

Going off what a Mod said recently about nerfing Ranger pet damage later this month.

Our pets currently have shoddy AI. When fighting another player they are incredibly easy to dodge, and, if you are mobile they probably won’t hit you anyway.

Funny, that sounds more like a warrior in PvP to me.

Just look the differences between “Rampage as One” and “Signet of Rage”
How fair it is?

The effect of rampage as one is significantly better as long as you’re not just using it for travel. Rampage as one gives stability and more might, a lot more might.

Were complaining about bad elites now? Two near useless tomes and renewed focus would like to introduce themselves to you. Any disadvantages you have compared to guardian are offset by the fact that your elites don’t suck.

If Anet wants to Nerf the Rangers, let them! I’ll take the challenge, and I will make the Guardians, Mesmers, and Thiefs whine, cry, and gripe some more in a few weeks. The Ranger is the Strongest class! ‘useless’ Longbow and all!

Bryzy, you just got to know how to play the Ranger class, take advantage of some of the best traits ever, such as Piercing Arrows and Signet of the Beastmaster, and not always use a Full Zerker build either. With the right build in WvW, you can apply full stacks of might on your pet in about two seconds,…or less! You then knockback anyone in a straight line, Daze anyone in a straight line, bleed all of them, poison all of them, use a Drake or Canine to embarrass them, then finally use your barrage to cripple them, all while taking no damage yourself for six of those seconds. Hopefully you brought a group with you to mop up the mess you made! Rangers are also great in PvE, because with the right build, you can fight up to half a dozen enemies and a Veteran at once without any fear of dying, because with a trait and a signet, your health regeneration pretty much takes care of you!

So explain why we’re still the least desirable in dungeons?

Explain why we’ve had hardly any fixes since release that we need above anything?

How many here have genuinely played Ranger thoroughly and explored both PvE and WvW, rather than just recounting their personal experiences when they’ve died to a skilled Ranger?

When you guys are starting to compare and complain about Warriors needing urgent fixes or even being underpowered, I KNOW you aren’t familiar with the Ranger. Warriors have long been one of the most overpowered professions in the game, at least for burst damage. And before you mention ‘ohhh noooo but we had the quickness nerf’ – well so did every other profession.

There’s a REASON we’re one of the least-played professions.

Bryzy.2719:

So explain why we’re still the least desirable in dungeons?

Explain why we’ve had hardly any fixes since release that we need above anything?

There’s a REASON we’re one of the least-played professions.

Every singly one of your questions can be answered with the same sentence:

Because Anet balances the game around PvP.

Warriors are OP in PvE, they suck in PvP. Rangers are OP in PvP and suck in PvE.

I hope for you that they won’t nerf the pet damage in PvE, because Rangers are bad enough already as it is, but I honestly don’t care that much.

Hyraltia.4185:

Weakest profession in the game, funny, Necro and Warrior would like to say hello to you on ALL of your points. They are the two most broken (trait, ability and utility wise) out of every class in the game, while rangers currently remain one of the strongest bunkers with little to no effort required. You have a PASSIVE pet that has MORE stats than a human can possibly get for no draw backs or downsides (i’ll refer you to GW1 where having a pet required a skill in order to even have the pet with you, which is how it needs to be in GW2). Please, ranger weakest profession? go read the necro/warrior forums and then do try and make this thread with a straight face.

Warrior is already the #1 profession in the game, outDPS all other professions by a significant amount. To state that warriors are in a bad state, saying so with a straight face, is beyond ignorant.

Warriors were buffed +100% on their already overpowered build last update. Seriously … Yes I’m talking strictly PVE, some people want a hint of balance in there too but alas …

Hyraltia.4185:

Weakest profession in the game, funny, Necro and Warrior would like to say hello to you on ALL of your points. They are the two most broken (trait, ability and utility wise) out of every class in the game, while rangers currently remain one of the strongest bunkers with little to no effort required. You have a PASSIVE pet that has MORE stats than a human can possibly get for no draw backs or downsides (i’ll refer you to GW1 where having a pet required a skill in order to even have the pet with you, which is how it needs to be in GW2). Please, ranger weakest profession? go read the necro/warrior forums and then do try and make this thread with a straight face.

Edit: Your pets can hit for 800+ crits on full tanks and all you have to do is put the pet on guard and tell it to attack every so often, your damage is far from terrible, as for pets that deal damage, your Drakes should not be ignored (COUGH ABSURD TANKS WITH HUGE DAMAGE COUGH). Oh and you’re complaining about pet AI that follows it’s target across the universe till it dies, have you seen necro minions? they stand there while their master is dying to someone, let alone thieves who absolutely break their AI entirely, you can control your pets, AI is nearly unnecessary, just micro a little bit, it’s not hard.

The guys in my guild that play warriors boast about how great they are. The warrior and guardian duo are pretty deadly in my guild parties. I play a necro and though I am just levelling right now I’m finding him pretty powerful. I have a level 80 Ranger and I find he is currently the poorest build I have. Pet AI is just not good enough. If there is a lot of AOE the pet goes down fast as they don’t try to dodge or avoid and as someone said you have just lost 30% of your dps. My level 80 Ele is much more powerful and fun and my level 80 thief the same.

Bryzy.2719:

So explain why we’re still the least desirable in dungeons?

Because people are stupid? I’ve always been the most capable person in my group in any dungeon I’ve done, even if it was the first time I’d been in that dungeon. I’m extremely hard to kill, and more often than not only go down if I make the mistake of trying to res an ally while a boss is rampaging. I have defeated bosses after it had killed all my allies, or tanked it while the only other surviver ressed the fallen.

People have misconceptions, and also there are probably a lot of players that don’t actually understand how to play a Ranger. I know I read a lot of their posts here all the time.

Explain why we’ve had hardly any fixes since release that we need above anything?

Dunno, the only fix I’ve ever “needed” for my ranger is the ability to name all my pets without the system losing them if I swap.

How many here have genuinely played Ranger thoroughly and explored both PvE and WvW, rather than just recounting their personal experiences when they’ve died to a skilled Ranger?

Ranger was my first class during early access. My First to 80. My first to world complete. My first to do all of the dungeons. It is my main and I play it every day. I use longbow, and I’ve never had a problem with my class, my build or my pet. Compared to all my other classes my Ranger is the one I play if I don’t want the game to be hard, because it’s very hard to hurt, let alone kill a Ranger. My Ranger is the only class I have that could run through an entire enemy zerg while they’re seiging a keep I needed to get into without getting hurt in any way.

There’s a REASON we’re one of the least-played professions.

If we’re so little played, why do I see pets everywhere I look no matter where I am?

I give up. It’s inevitable that the devs will nerf us rangers regardless of how much QQing we do. I might as well transfer all my gold and stuff to my level 12 ele now and get levelling it up. After the “balance” i guess they’ll have killed off one of the last remaining aspects of our playability.

marnick.4305:

Hyraltia.4185:

Weakest profession in the game, funny, Necro and Warrior would like to say hello to you on ALL of your points. They are the two most broken (trait, ability and utility wise) out of every class in the game, while rangers currently remain one of the strongest bunkers with little to no effort required. You have a PASSIVE pet that has MORE stats than a human can possibly get for no draw backs or downsides (i’ll refer you to GW1 where having a pet required a skill in order to even have the pet with you, which is how it needs to be in GW2). Please, ranger weakest profession? go read the necro/warrior forums and then do try and make this thread with a straight face.

Warrior is already the #1 profession in the game, outDPS all other professions by a significant amount. To state that warriors are in a bad state, saying so with a straight face, is beyond ignorant.

Warriors were buffed +100% on their already overpowered build last update. Seriously … Yes I’m talking strictly PVE, some people want a hint of balance in there too but alas …

PvE isn’t what the game is balanced around, and to be honest, who really cares if someone is imbalanced in PvE, it’s not ruining any one persons fun because that warrior next to you out dps’s you, because while he does out dps you, he doesn’t out utility you, warriors are either mass utility tanks with shout heals or banners or dps glass cannons that die in 1-2 crits. Balanced builds inbetween for warriors work VERY poorly in pve, the only half decent multi-spec involves 1h sword or hammer (which is useless in pve due to champions/legendaries cc immunity).

Sure he may out dps you in pve, but then you go to pvp and just kite him around all day and kill him, quite literally, without taking damage if you aren’t awful at the game.

If you legitimately want the game to be balanced around PvE then tell ArenaNet to get busy on making PvE/PvP split skills like GW1 had, until that happens both PvE and PvP will never get balanced (mind you I’m entirely in favor of the split skills, because the introduction of this into GW1 made the game much better).

The entire problem is the fact that all balances are around PvP, when it’s the least played segment of the game. Balance is important there, yes, I admit that. Far more important than elsewhere.

Repeat after me:

Every. Single. PvP. Balance. Change. Should. Be. PvP. ONLY.

If they followed that, then the vocal minority of PvP players would be kept happy, and the PvE/WvW/dungeon people – the one’s who contribute the most money to Anet’s coffers, won’t be punished for not being that niche.

marnick.4305:

Warriors were buffed +100% on their already overpowered build last update. Seriously … Yes I’m talking strictly PVE, some people want a hint of balance in there too but alas …

Signets were not the pve build o.O banners are still effectively 2 signets spread across the entire party. If anything signets would make a pvp build as they provide no party support.

Wait until the balance patch is actually live (afaik end of this month first patch), and then talk. If they nerf the pet damage mb they up some traits to balance it more or give the range some more damage. Which i’m all for, since my pet isn’t a reliable source of damage. And in some cases the pet is a huge liability alas. Cuz fluffy my reef drake is so cute

Hyraltia.4185:

marnick.4305:

Hyraltia.4185:

Weakest profession in the game, funny, Necro and Warrior would like to say hello to you on ALL of your points. They are the two most broken (trait, ability and utility wise) out of every class in the game, while rangers currently remain one of the strongest bunkers with little to no effort required. You have a PASSIVE pet that has MORE stats than a human can possibly get for no draw backs or downsides (i’ll refer you to GW1 where having a pet required a skill in order to even have the pet with you, which is how it needs to be in GW2). Please, ranger weakest profession? go read the necro/warrior forums and then do try and make this thread with a straight face.

Warrior is already the #1 profession in the game, outDPS all other professions by a significant amount. To state that warriors are in a bad state, saying so with a straight face, is beyond ignorant.

Warriors were buffed +100% on their already overpowered build last update. Seriously … Yes I’m talking strictly PVE, some people want a hint of balance in there too but alas …

PvE isn’t what the game is balanced around, and to be honest, who really cares if someone is imbalanced in PvE,

Let me repeat. Beyond ignorant. Some people want a hint of balance in PVE too.

It doesn’t have to be perfectly balanced, but it shouldn’t be as outrageous as it is currently either. The +100% signet buff was a PVE insult to every player who doesn’t like melee.

So please … split skills. Split every single trait and skill if necessary. I’m intelligent enough to learn both.

To be fair, necromancers are by far the weakest of all the classes, with almost all traits being broken on release, and hardly any synergies working at all.

But since rangers simply do not function without a pet, the problems with pets severely handicap this class as well (at least we can swap out our minions skills due to the problems with the ai, even if it means abandoning an entire trait line). I’ve seen the issues that rangers run into in dungeons. Several guildies play a ranger, and they did not have a fun time in places like Molten Facility, where the boss clearly shows the problems with being so reliant on pets.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

To be fair, necromancers are by far the weakest of all the classes, with almost all traits being broken on release, and hardly any synergies working at all.

But since rangers simply do not function without a pet, the problems with pets severely handicap this class as well (at least we can swap out our minions skills due to the problems with the ai, even if it means abandoning an entire trait line). I’ve seen the issues that rangers run into in dungeons. Several guildies play a ranger, and they did not have a fun time in places like Molten Facility, where the boss clearly shows the problems with being so reliant on pets.

Are you kidding me? The only reason my group even completed Molten Facility was because I’m a ranger. I sicked my bear on the Berserker and eventually he stole all agro. Once the Berserker wasn’t jumping around he couldn’t actually kill the bear and we were able to burn him down no problem. Thankfully the dredge guy was more interested in me so his AoEs didn’t burn down my pet before I could heal him.

I’ll admit it was probably a bug, but too bad.

What I don’t get is, if Necros and Rangers are so bad, why is my Necro second only to my Ranger out of my eight characters?

Kal Spiro.9745:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

To be fair, necromancers are by far the weakest of all the classes, with almost all traits being broken on release, and hardly any synergies working at all.

But since rangers simply do not function without a pet, the problems with pets severely handicap this class as well (at least we can swap out our minions skills due to the problems with the ai, even if it means abandoning an entire trait line). I’ve seen the issues that rangers run into in dungeons. Several guildies play a ranger, and they did not have a fun time in places like Molten Facility, where the boss clearly shows the problems with being so reliant on pets.

Are you kidding me? The only reason my group even completed Molten Facility was because I’m a ranger. I sicked my bear on the Berserker and eventually he stole all agro. Once the Berserker wasn’t jumping around he couldn’t actually kill the bear and we were able to burn him down no problem. Thankfully the dredge guy was more interested in me so his AoEs didn’t burn down my pet before I could heal him.

I’ll admit it was probably a bug, but too bad.

What I don’t get is, if Necros and Rangers are so bad, why is my Necro second only to my Ranger out of my eight characters?

Because ranger pets at least have a form of control, while necro pets are just dumb. Engis are third on the scale of bad only because they have the option not to play with pets.

Pet professions in MMOs are a nightmare to balance, yet so fun to play

marnick.4305:

Because ranger pets at least have a form of control, while necro pets are just dumb. Engis are third on the scale of bad only because they have the option not to play with pets.

Pet professions in MMOs are a nightmare to balance, yet so fun to play

I don’t play a pet Necro anyway, they creep me out. I specialize in Death Shroud.

Necromancer minions stand around not attacking anything, and they often even run away from enemies. And with no way to control them, this pretty much makes all of the minion mastery traits and skills a waste of time.

I must agree with Kal Spiro here. I have no problems with my ranger at all, and I run an improvised condition build. I am hard to kill, and I don’t use my pet to tank, I use pets mostly for their buffs and conditions (like the fern hound’s heal and the pink moa’s stun). My first run of the Molten Facility was with two other rangers and we did just fine and had a lot of fun. I love to play my ranger both in pve and pvp, and she is my main since the headstart.
I don’t use my necro’s minions, she is a conditionmancer (I like conditions, alright? xD), and she is great too. I never took her to sPvP or WvW though.

I’m a ranger…
in WvW I can take camps – even towers alone – those second require only no player defenders.
while roaming in WvW I rarely’ve been beaten by single player – actually good berserk thief is only enemy, that I cannot hold out alone – medium non-berserk thief I kill – good non-berserk are managing to run away – I had the situations when guardian with ele support had trouble to kill me, and sometimes enemies need to call more players to manage to take me down.

in 1v5 There is a suicide to atack in my case – for now never won yet 1v5 fight – and if atacking I never made it out alive.
so for now I don’t feel to be weakest profession – but nerfing isn’t thing I could name good.
That profession need some more fixes in some builds (just to make me more confused which of all this traits I should take :P)
never call necro weakest – I have a necro friend… and good it’s a friend (and necro minion master along with mesmer mass cloner are on the list “very hard to kill by myself alone”)

Yeah, don’t nerf the Ranger, nerf the pet!

Rising Dusk.2408:

Yeah, don’t nerf the Ranger, nerf the pet!

Funny you should say that, for two reasons. Since the Pet is the specific unique mechanic of the Ranger it sort of is the Ranger, therefore nerfing the pet is nerfing the Ranger, and because that does seem to be specifically what the OP is actually about.

Next time I’ll add sarcasm tags to go with the winking smiley face so there’s no mistaking.

ey so maybe if nerfing pet so maybe also nerf clones/phantasms of mesmer and necro minions? both of this classes can be used as a small army in one player – that’s much more “OP” than just one pet of ranger!
(atacking minion master necro is like ataking at least 4 ppl, ataking mesmer… even more depends on mesmer skill)

Imho nerfing the pet is a good thing to do. BM Rangers (like me) are just way to powerfull.
BUT in return the Power/Precicion traitlines should be buffed, so the ranger can compensate the loss of the Pets damage in pure damage builds.
This would at the same time make Power based Bunkers more viable (→ they are useless right now)

Aeri.5738:

Imho nerfing the pet is a good thing to do. BM Rangers (like me) are just way to powerfull.
BUT in return the Power/Precicion traitlines should be buffed, so the ranger can compensate the loss of the Pets damage in pure damage builds.
This would at the same time make Power based Bunkers more viable (-> they are useless right now)

Not the traitlines – the weapon skill coefficients – ours are all significantly lower than the other classes, because of our advantage in the pet.