Guild Wars 2

Some dungeons are really hard. Harder than the average 5 players can handle.

They can try the boss 10 times, wipe, have tons of repair fees, lose lots of time, have a bad experience, and on the 11th try they have made no progress since the first try.

Often the mobs that gradually spawn in are all there from the start of each future attempt to make it worse.

I feel like there should be some feeling of progress even after a wipe. This way in future attempts, your chances of beating it are greater.

One way to do it would be to limit the amount of full heal the boss gets after a wipe. For each wipe, it could heal 80% of its missing health. So if the group can only take out half of it’s health each time, it would respawn like so:
Attempt 1: Start at 100% health, wipe, heal back to 90%
Attempt 2: Start at 90%, wipe, heal to 72%
Attempt 3: Start at 72%, wipe, heal to 57%
Attempt 4: Start at 57%, wipe, heal to 46%
Attempt 5: Success.

People would still try to do it in 1 attempt as they don’t want to pay all of these armor repair fees, and take the time to walk back and fail repeatedly. But it would make every dungeon possible even for the less skilled players, and diligence would lead to victory instead of bitter defeat, regret, and unwillingness to repeat the dungeon.

Whaddya think? There are other ways to accomplish this of course, this is just 1 implementation.

Clark Skinner.4902:

I feel like there should be some feeling of progress even after a wipe. This way in future attempts, your chances of beating it are greater.

The main problem with this is that the change ANet made to dungeons in the 28 January patch – removing the ability to rez-run – was specifically intended to counter this. In other words, ANet’s now made a specific statement that from a design standpoint, a wipe is supposed to mean a total reset.

It’s not a bad idea, I’m just saying that it’s a direct contradiction of a stance which has very recently shaped ANet design policy.

Blueshield.6291:

Clark Skinner.4902:

I feel like there should be some feeling of progress even after a wipe. This way in future attempts, your chances of beating it are greater.

The main problem with this is that the change ANet made to dungeons in the 28 January patch – removing the ability to rez-run – was specifically intended to counter this. In other words, ANet’s now made a specific statement that from a design standpoint, a wipe is supposed to mean a total reset.

It’s not a bad idea, I’m just saying that it’s a direct contradiction of a stance which has very recently shaped ANet design policy.

Didn’t Anet also make nerfs to the bosses as well, so now hopefully people are not dying a million times over?

eisberg.2379:

Blueshield.6291:

The main problem with this is that the change ANet made to dungeons in the 28 January patch – removing the ability to rez-run – was specifically intended to counter this. In other words, ANet’s now made a specific statement that from a design standpoint, a wipe is supposed to mean a total reset.

It’s not a bad idea, I’m just saying that it’s a direct contradiction of a stance which has very recently shaped ANet design policy.

Didn’t Anet also make nerfs to the bosses as well, so now hopefully people are not dying a million times over?

True, the patch notes indicate that quite a few of the boss fights have been tuned down.

eisberg.2379:

Blueshield.6291:

Clark Skinner.4902:

I feel like there should be some feeling of progress even after a wipe. This way in future attempts, your chances of beating it are greater.

The main problem with this is that the change ANet made to dungeons in the 28 January patch – removing the ability to rez-run – was specifically intended to counter this. In other words, ANet’s now made a specific statement that from a design standpoint, a wipe is supposed to mean a total reset.

It’s not a bad idea, I’m just saying that it’s a direct contradiction of a stance which has very recently shaped ANet design policy.

Didn’t Anet also make nerfs to the bosses as well, so now hopefully people are not dying a million times over?

I thought so, but it doesn’t say specifically it did for TA, which no one ever wants to do, especially the F/F path. They didn’t even add a 3rd waypoint like in the other 2 paths.

Clark Skinner.4902:

eisberg.2379:

Blueshield.6291:

The main problem with this is that the change ANet made to dungeons in the 28 January patch – removing the ability to rez-run – was specifically intended to counter this. In other words, ANet’s now made a specific statement that from a design standpoint, a wipe is supposed to mean a total reset.

It’s not a bad idea, I’m just saying that it’s a direct contradiction of a stance which has very recently shaped ANet design policy.

Didn’t Anet also make nerfs to the bosses as well, so now hopefully people are not dying a million times over?

I thought so, but it doesn’t say specifically it did for TA, which no one ever wants to do, especially the F/F path. They didn’t even add a 3rd waypoint like in the other 2 paths.

True, it looks like that one in particular was left as-is. However, I recall reading in a “moving forward from 28 Jan”-type of dev post (I tried to locate it and could not, apologies) that now that rez-running is no longer a concern, the team’s looking at waypoint locations in dungeons and specifically the dearth of them. Expect more waypoints soon, in other words.

EDIT: Found it.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/So-with-zerg-reviving-getting-the-boot/first#post1279866

Personally I dont want this in the game. I want to be able to 100% a boss. If you make it so that he never goes back to that full health, we haven’t really beaten him..

If you fail first time, and then try again the EXACT same way, obviously you will fail again, instead work with your group and adjust your tactics and you may have a better chance next time

I get what you want, the equivalence of the dungeons being played as Hard Mode, which you think they are now, and Normal Mode, which is really what you would like to play. So you get to experience the material, but not the frustrations of not being able to handle it as it is now. Which is why the dev’s have taken steps to reduce some of the content. But now you feel its so much worse cause the waypoint zerg is now gone.

If the Dev’s did go for something like this then it makes sense to also reduce the reward for going in a Normal Mode(Casual Player) vs the Hard Mode.

Does this sound right?

That’d have to have lower rewards.

Gummy.4278:

I get what you want, the equivalence of the dungeons being played as Hard Mode, which you think they are now, and Normal Mode, which is really what you would like to play. So you get to experience the material, but not the frustrations of not being able to handle it as it is now. Which is why the dev’s have taken steps to reduce some of the content. But now you feel its so much worse cause the waypoint zerg is now gone.

If the Dev’s did go for something like this then it makes sense to also reduce the reward for going in a Normal Mode(Casual Player) vs the Hard Mode.

Does this sound right?

RiKShaw.8795:

That’d have to have lower rewards.

Yeah, and he said so.

Thanks for the link about waypoints.

You still could do a boss 100% the first time.

In the dungeons I have failed in, we have stopped to try something new, retrait, change utils, strategize. Sometimes a group still isn’t able to do it.

About Hard Mode – I didn’t think of it that way. I just would like a way to complete the dungeon if the difficulty is just too high for the party. I feel like unskilled players should be able to play the game, it should just take them more time than the expert dungeon runners. That in itself is less reward per hour, in addition to the armor repairs.

Clark Skinner.4902:

Thanks for the link about waypoints.

You still could do a boss 100% the first time.

In the dungeons I have failed in, we have stopped to try something new, retrait, change utils, strategize. Sometimes a group still isn’t able to do it.

About Hard Mode – I didn’t think of it that way. I just would like a way to complete the dungeon if the difficulty is just too high for the party. I feel like unskilled players should be able to play the game, it should just take them more time than the expert dungeon runners. That in itself is less reward per hour, in addition to the armor repairs.

The problem with the way you would have them do it. Eventually the people who are (casual) not “unskilled” that is just a slap to the face) is they end up hating the whole experience. Some people just can’t dedicate as much time to the game as others and you end up driving customers away. If they think that the content is not fun the whole game is not fun and people not having fun don’t buy stuff from the gem shop.

I don’t think its to unreasonable to have easy mode- normal mode- hard mode or whatever designation you want to give the different forms of dungeons, its pretty simple they had it in GW1. Why can’t it happen here? Even the Fractals have a big learning curve, as you progress, learning the how before the how learns you.

problem is nearly everyone builds their toon to get highest dps possible, get nice ballanced group, mage/guardian healing, war/guardian tank an rest full dps and most bosses are easy, boss down first time in most encounters, i play theif an bit squishy, always range in dungeons/fotm but had group with tank an healertr an happily melee’d all way hrough Fotm without getting downed once. Any other MMO ive played, boss reset’s if group wipes, just the way it should be

I agree with how they are handling it, if the majority of players (sry to all the elitists) can’t complete the content that means that it is too hard. They make their money of the casual players not the hardcore players since there are alot more casuals standing around. For everyone having a hard time with content, try swapping some of ur accessories for tankier stats (not forgetting that toughness and vit are equally important, and heaing is nice too) just for that dungeon. People focus way too much attention on min-maxing dps when it is only required in a very few instances of the game that you can sacrifice some to live longer.

Sure lower the bosses health pool on each wipe … along with players facing same penalty.