Guild Wars 2

Before everyone puts their two cents into this just hear me out. I recently did an explorer mode on Ascalon Catacombs with three level 80s and two level 60s the recommended level for this dungeon on explorer mode is 35. We got destroyed.

These dungeons should be a challenge for a group of five level 35s and they should be scaled up for a group of five level 80s but not to the point that we die every five minuets. The amount of effort and time needed to complete these dungeons out ways the benefit and rewards gained through completing the story or the explorer paths.

These dungeons are supposed to bring players together and complete hard content together not die over and over again. Their are a lot of players out there that do not play this game like it is a second job and they do not try a lot of the content because of time and the need for other players

My suggestion is to be able to chosen difficulty of the dungeons and have the loot drops and rewards be scaled down or up to the respected level. Also give players the ability to hire mercenaries if other players are unavailable or implement a server wide dungeon chat so people can ask for help without having to map to other cities and maps with the option to mute certain players who are trolling the chat.

Also agree dungeons are more difficult than their level indicates. I have been in a number of level 40 areas with a level 80 character and am able to take on a number of creatures at once. However, in Ascalon Catacombs, the ghosts, gravelings, whatever all seem to have severely enhanced health or armor as it takes forever for my character to take out just one. I agree the critters in the dungeons should be tougher, but feel it is a bit overboard.

I did cof p1 maybe 2 or 3 times and I know for sure there is nothing easier than it in the game. As such I can’t see why they upped the difficulty (from a point of view mostly due to fps drops) of AC which is intended for lower levels when CoF is so danged easy yet gives berserker gear. I don’t want AC to be made easier but why is CoF so dang easy compared to everything else.

To be honest the only dungeons that I have completed or attempted is AC and TA both of them have low suggested levels and I was level 80 with a full group or close to a full group of level 80s. I will probably never do another dungeon. Since Anet started to polish them they are just way to hard and I tend to rage quit and that is not fair to the other players so I won’t attempt the dungeons until they scale the dungeons properly. It is kinda sad since in a way they continue the story from Edge of Destiny and I loved the book.

It was already hard to find a group now it is just that much harder finding a good group and be able to complete it without breaking my keyboard and no I will not run the dungeon in order to complete it.

All I want to know is what Anet has to say about the dungeons difficulty I understand they are busy it’s just this forum is highly active and most stuff that matters gets left behind.

Dungeons are fine. People have been beating them in under 15 minutes since release. We still get punished for beating them quickly.

If you thin your level matters, if you’re getting hit, if you think the enemies are like normal enemies, that’s your problem.

If you’re dieing every 5 minutes, it is either:

A) A skill problem. Keep at it until you learn. If you can’t learn; do not do the dungeon.

or

B) A gear problem. You can have two stats on your gear at L35. If you’re learning dungeons for the first time I would use an offensive stat and a defensive stat. Power + Vitality is a good choice because it doesn’t give you the extra aggro that Toughness does.

Edit: This still applies at L80, by the way. Except that you should have higher stats due to Exotic gear, and three stats to choose from on gear. Go PTV until you learn the dungeon well enough to not die as often (or stick with PTV if you prefer a defensive playstyle).

Nels the Cornwhisperer.8025:

Dungeons are fine. People have been beating them in under 15 minutes since release. We still get punished for beating them quickly.

If you thin your level matters, if you’re getting hit, if you think the enemies are like normal enemies, that’s your problem.

People have been finishing the dungeons in under 15 min because they are running through them. I don’t want to run though the content I want to experience it. I understand that the mobs are not normal but I being lvl 80 should be able to kill a mob that is half my lvl 1v1. Before you ask I am not going into the dungeons by myself I am referring to when my team dies and cannot Rez do to me being in battle.

I’m not asking Anet to change the dungeons in anyway. What I am asking is for Anet to let us pick the difficulty of the dungeons and have the drops and rewards be scaled to the difficulty. I just think if this was implemented that more players would enjoy the content and be able to play at their level. I’m not asking for and easy mode where you can kill everything very quickly. Just something similar to the normal and hard mode that was implemented in GW1.

I notice you say that you should be able to solo a mob half your level (80 vs 35~), but keep in mind you are scaled down. The mob is not half your level.

Toxyn.9608:

I notice you say that you should be able to solo a mob half your level (80 vs 35~), but keep in mind you are scaled down. The mob is not half your level.

This is true thank you for the correction. However even with my states being scaled down my armor, weapons, attachments and runes are not. I do not want it to be to easy where I can go through it with easy. All I am saying is I should not have to run thought any part of a dungeon to complete it with a group of lvl 80s. If the recommended lvl for a dungeon is lvl 35 a group of lvl 35 should be able to complete it.

That is what is so nice about MMOs they are always considered to be a work in progress. Even after it is released.

you can solo one or 2 mobs in a dungeons, it just takes a lot of skill, knowing how to avoid their attacks properly etc.

i will agree on the scaling maybe having an option and me and my guildmates did AC
1. we were using a team speak
2. they lowerd the little scavengers basic attacks
3. gave new attacks to enimies and bosses
4. revamped the legendary boses at the end
and path 2 we were playing ghost busters in the chat room. and what is sad is we all said i feel sorry for the new people comming in to the game going ohh hay im lvl35 and i can do this.

all the dungeon’s are LvL 80. i would not recommend going to a dungeon if your not lvl80 and have at least master work on. you will get whipped and half to wate till everyone’s dead or break aggro.

I challenge your lvl 80/80/80/60/60 group with my group of lvl ~50 which we did with few wipes, even pugged it once :U having a lvl 40 thief in group

PS: Do not forget that exotics and lvl 80 doesn’t mean a lot since you are downscaled AND capped in stats in lower level dungeons, you are not really better. Except you have traits which do help a little bit, but that is all

dungeons are horribly easy in this game… once you get the hang of it you’ll see how empty and shallow the dungeons are

Kenage Achalarus.4276:

i will agree on the scaling maybe having an option and me and my guildmates did AC
1. we were using a team speak
2. they lowerd the little scavengers basic attacks
3. gave new attacks to enimies and bosses
4. revamped the legendary boses at the end
and path 2 we were playing ghost busters in the chat room. and what is sad is we all said i feel sorry for the new people comming in to the game going ohh hay im lvl35 and i can do this.

all the dungeon’s are LvL 80. i would not recommend going to a dungeon if your not lvl80 and have at least master work on. you will get whipped and half to wate till everyone’s dead or break aggro.

really no, sure being lvl 80 makes it easier, but a competent player that is same lvl as the dungeon can partake just as good as a good lvl 80, and well he can likely partakke better than a bad lvl 80 player

Yes you can complete the dungeons with a group of lower lvled players that know what they are doing. But I am talking about new players that are not a very high lvl. The hardest thing for me is getting a group of five players that know what they are doing. So back to one of my original points. The players that have little to no problem with the dungeons are players who run them or players that play the game like it is a second job. Yes their are a few players out there that are just better at MMOs.

In order to make this game more enjoyable I think a hard mode and normal mode should be implemented for the dungeons and maybe even the story mode for the players who are story driven.

Gallen Muur.2487:

Nels the Cornwhisperer.8025:

Dungeons are fine. People have been beating them in under 15 minutes since release. We still get punished for beating them quickly.

If you thin your level matters, if you’re getting hit, if you think the enemies are like normal enemies, that’s your problem.

People have been finishing the dungeons in under 15 min because they are running through them.

And they were running through them because most of graveling groups was very deadly in fight for group of random players – even with ts.
For example – Lieutenant Kholer – he was a way too difficult for group that is not playing together from weeks – so if cave troll wasn’t spawn nobody even though to fight with him – and the patch… – added more mobs to fight for him? if that so nobody will fight Kholer right now.

I agree that some things that they made in the last patch made AC very difficult to make – one hour with random team – and not even killed spider queen – because she spawned nearly “at once” and the spiders have swarmed all the team. Two seconds, no time to react – and whole team dead.

about hatchlings – I’m not sure if they have lowered damage.. – still they have strangely big range of atack and thay are bleeding on each atack – if we consider that hatchlings are spawning in nearly ten at once Fighting with them in close combat will efect with deadly number of bleeding stacks (in bigger spaces with properly build there is a possibility to kite them that they cannot hit you)

And one strange thing I’ve seen – Spider queen if spawned and kill whole team will rush with all the spiders toward player when plafers still are not able to figth – when they are just upstairs with no room to figth, trapps in every place – and enemy spamming with AoE poisons…

so I agree at this moment AC are normally way to difficult for random teams of player and I agree with proposition to give possibility of chosing difficulty lvl (for example: easy – mode to players without 80 lvl but in those 35 lvl’s – 20 tokens per path first time per day – medium – for casual 80’s – 40 tokens per path first time a day – and hard – that what is present – 60 tokens per path – and everybody should be happier )

Just … no. Learn Kholer’s mechanics. He has A LOT LESS hp, his adds are basically soloable with lvl 40 so they’re nerfed to hell as well, and you guys want easy mode? o.o"

See when he starts charging his sword…you should prepare to dodge :U
If you can’t dodge, waste your utilities on stability
Iz all I’m sayin’

Ravenmoon.5318:

Just … no. Learn Kholer’s mechanics. He has A LOT LESS hp, his adds are basically soloable with lvl 40 so they’re nerfed to hell as well, and you guys want easy mode? o.o"

See when he starts charging his sword…you should prepare to dodge :U
If you can’t dodge, waste your utilities on stability
Iz all I’m sayin’

not sure what Kholer is look like after patch because team of random player that would have no problem before patch to that patch within one hour was trying no to die on spider queen within those hour and knowledge of single player about mechanics of the boss can’t guarantee a succes when he is alone living after a while…

I don’t want to make whole dung an “easy mode” – I just agree that giving player a choice of difficulty level is good idea.

PS. before patch I was able to make AC with random players. after patch and failure of “random team” I asked My friend who is much more experienced with dungeon how all of it works aafter patch – answer was: “You need a good party – and best with teamspeak”

So back to the suggestion to Anet:

Modes of difficulty:

Normal Mode: Less traps, slightly scaled down stats for mobs, scaled down loot drops, boss chests ie item rarity less than rare and half normal token rate.

Hard Mode: No change to traps or mob stats but with the chance to receive rare+ drops and normal token rate.

What do you guys think?

Lord Trejgon.2809:

I asked My friend who is much more experienced with dungeon how all of it works aafter patch – answer was: “You need a good party – and best with teamspeak”

I pugged it, through gw2lfg, and 1 guy from map chat at lvl 40
my exact message was
“LF3M AC exp fun run to explore the new dungeon, NO ELITISTS”

I got a bunch of very friendly people. Sure we wiped, like 10 times. But we did it. Later on when I went with my guild for path 2 and 3 we wiped very few times (1-2-3) until they saw the tactics. And path 3 was flawless.

Do not limit yourselves! The dungeon is not that hard, just keep trying and improve.

PS: Aaahh now that I think twice your friend might’ve recommended VoIP because of path 2, in reality its not that hard. You just zerg the ectos with lifts and pulls. It will take more time but oh well, worth it

I’m not just referring to AC. TA is also a pain. Tho the part that most people in my group rage quit when we had to cover ourselves with wax and run by the bees. The only problem is the bees are from hell and killed all of us in one hit. I think that is a bit much it is easy to get passed them if you time it but if one person dies your screwed because out of what is on the other side. There is almost no place to stop to lose agro.

Just a thought since a lot of you have suggested that TeamSpeak be used maybe GW2 should have a built in voice chat system for parties only. I have a small guild so I won’t spend the money on a server. I would also not allow non-guild members to have access to it. If there is a built in voice chat then players that just met and are not a part of the same guild could chat with each other more efficiently.

You can host TS3 server yourself, it’s not that hard.
Also there are free solutions, with limited slots of course, but since you are small guild…

Gallen Muur.2487:

Yes you can complete the dungeons with a group of lower lvled players that know what they are doing. But I am talking about new players that are not a very high lvl. The hardest thing for me is getting a group of five players that know what they are doing. So back to one of my original points. The players that have little to no problem with the dungeons are players who run them or players that play the game like it is a second job. Yes their are a few players out there that are just better at MMOs.

In order to make this game more enjoyable I think a hard mode and normal mode should be implemented for the dungeons and maybe even the story mode for the players who are story driven.

Explorable mode dungeons is SUPPOSED to be hard mode. They are intended to be the hardest content in the game. The issue is your expectations. There is no penalty for doing story mode over and over, why not do that if you find explorable mode too hard?

That is not what my suggestion was about. Explains to me why AC and TA are harder than killing the Elder Dragon. That dungeon was the easiest one I have completed shouldn’t it be the other way around. If a dungeon is rated at lvl 35 then it should be doable at lvl 35. If they are so hard than why even bother putting a recommended lvl on it at all.

The story mode is no easier than the exp mode. Yes you have an NPC on your side but he/she dies very easily. The content is very different as well so it is obviously not what I was suggesting. That’s my next question to Anet. Why are the members of Destinies Edge so weak?

I completely agree that it’s odd that CoF is way easier than AC or TA. That being said, AC and TA are not as insanely hard as you’re making them out to be.

I hate to be “that guy,” but if you’re having that big of problems with these dungeons, the fault does not lie completely with the game. I have completed these dungeons fine (on a ranger, too.) If you’re having some problems then you need one of two things. The first is more practice. Keep practicing that dodge and honing your skills.

If after vigorous practice you are still having major problems, then perhaps you should play a new game or a different kind of game.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

I asked My friend who is much more experienced with dungeon how all of it works aafter patch – answer was: “You need a good party – and best with teamspeak”

I pugged it, through gw2lfg, and 1 guy from map chat at lvl 40
my exact message was
“LF3M AC exp fun run to explore the new dungeon, NO ELITISTS”

I got a bunch of very friendly people. Sure we wiped, like 10 times. But we did it. Later on when I went with my guild for path 2 and 3 we wiped very few times (1-2-3) until they saw the tactics. And path 3 was flawless.

Do not limit yourselves! The dungeon is not that hard, just keep trying and improve.

PS: Aaahh now that I think twice your friend might’ve recommended VoIP because of path 2, in reality its not that hard. You just zerg the ectos with lifts and pulls. It will take more time but oh well, worth it

yup I tried today again after spider queen was a way easier – first time Kholer was killable without mega-guardian in team – but everything god stuck on the Ghost Eater – under 1/3 hp it got bugged, and he was ingnoring fully hcarged traps… and after a while of trying lure him on the trap in hope that will activate – he started to heal himself. and again… failure (as previously it seemed to be just matter of two idiots in team, that this time that was bug)

didn’t checked another paths yet

after all I still agree that choice of difficulty lvl (and reward depending on it) is good idea

775 Hours 2 months play time.

I’ve been playing about two months and just recently got my second level 80, my Asura Thief. When I started the game I was really excited about all the aspects of it, the event style, the no kill stealing, so much was and is still very appealing. Something though that rubbed me the wrong way right off the start was dungeons.

My first attempt to find a dungeon didn’t go so well. I wanted to do CM story and looked for a group for some time with no luck. So finally someone invited me for CM explore. Now I am the level of this dungeon and in decent gear though I’ve never run it before. Upon getting to the door the group kicks me, I asked why and was told they want 80’s. The same happened to my wife because she said “I’ve never done this dungeon.” This mind you is my first week playing the game.. very disheartening. Now I don’t want this to deter me, many rude or elitist players out there and I understand this. So again I try to look for parties and finally get into a group. I go through the dungeon but have a ton of trouble as I’ve never done and don’t understand how the dungeon works or its skills needed. I do my best to stay alive and be a good part of the group but just about every mob inside who isn’t even a veteran kills me without any trouble. And a few times the entire group is just stopped and dropped..

So time goes by and I no longer like dungeons as the community, including friends say that I should do them at 80 regardless the fact they are 30/40/50/60/70 dungeons.. In between I end up doing a few a total of 5. 5 runs total altogether, not 5 different dungeons. My overall experience was that I had no chance to survive at those levels, I did fine as an 80. This doesn’t seem like it was intended.

I understand that there is skill and tactics to the dungeons but if your new and trying them out you won’t know this. And you suffer for not knowing this, especially if your party also is not very knowledgeable of the dungeon. This months monthly was all done on my account except for Dungeons. The sole reason is i feel like they are difficult for anyone who isn’t fully geared and traited. It takes away from something that new players could genuinely enjoy, and feels like its a part of the game that wasn’t thought out very well. Keep in mind all this was BEFORE the patch, I hear now that they are even harder..

Is this what was meant to be? This difficulty and trouble enjoying a potentially large part of the game? I’m not complaining per say that the dungeons are impossible, but i feel like to enjoy them you need to go very much out of your way, possibly even beyond your means to complete them in an enjoyable way. I really wish they rewards felt like they were worth the effort, but after all the groups who deny low levels, and the difficulty of the dungeons, I feel sad that I cannot enjoy this part of the game. I’m a grinder at heart so I keep myself busy, but i would truly like to enjoy the dungeons in the game.

Is it possible that Arenanet could ever make the level appropriate dungeons more manageable for those levels and allow a “hard mode” for higher levels or more experienced players? Being able to chose the low level decent reward dungeon to do with friends would be great. And later on after you have done the paths enough and understand the dungeon you can try hard mode for even better rewards. Its just an idea, and this is just my experience. I know people splay styles and skills vary, and I am by no means an expert at the game. I really hope something can change in this respect and I can enjoy a large chunk of the game like others do.

tldr: Please allow low level players an easier or more manageable dungeon choice. And allow higher level, more experienced players a hard mode choice. Thank you and sorry for the long post.

I completely agree with you Geotherma.

Geotherma > I’m sorry to hear you had a bad experience with dungeons ; nevertheless, they are quite fun (well, most of them are ; the updated Ascalon Catacombs is great, for example) and it’s worth perserving.

I think it’s mostly about finding the right group, i.e. people who play with a mind set similar to yours. If you can find 3 other players (plus you and your wife) who want to discover a dungeon (i.e. they haven’t done it before) and are happy to spend 2+ hours on an instance without necessarily finishing it, you’ll have a great time.

That’s what dungeons are about, discovering and understanding the logic by yourself, wiping a few times at first, and iterating with your group until you get a smooth run and overcome the challenges.

In terms of difficulty, dungeons increase the gap between people who understand the logic of each encounter/room and use the games mechanics, and people who don’t.

A few general tips for dungeons :
- roles ; even though everybody can be doing a bit of damage/control/support it’s important to know who’s mostly doing what, because there are affinities depending on gear and traits
- builds ; get a full set of all the weapons for you class, understand all the details of the utility skills and be aware of good traits synergies. Changing a few things to your build between combats in a instance can make a huge difference
- focus on the goals and understand what each encounter is about ; wiping multiple times in a room is not an issue as long as in the end you understand why and can adapt. Maybe this room is about monsters inflicting insane poison damage ; have plenty of condition removal skills, utilities to deflect or avoid projectiles. Maybe this room is about surviving long enough for a NPC to complete something. ; if brute force damage doesn’t do it in terms of keeping monsters in check, adapt to maximise survibility, with stun fields, snares, mobility, etc. And so on.
- environment ; many dungeon rooms are about using the environment properly. Maybe there’s something around you can activate or use to help you, maybe that NPC can do something as well, etc.

Dungeons are about putting all these things together, and understanding what to do and what to focus on for each encounter

lol.. only time a dungeon is even remotely hard is when i run it with randoms, my last experience with this was the SE dungeon, i found 4 randoms to join me, we headed in they all died and coudnt live through the first part of path 1 while i soloed the whole thing until i reached the first boss..
the dungeons are SOO EASY, i mean iv never run a dungeon that hasnt been a speed run…

Because you’re so great… ZZzz…

I bet these 4 “randoms” would have had a much better experience with a 5th player in a similar mind set, i.e. discovering the dungeon and trying to analyse why their setup wasn’t working in each different situation.

That’s how people get better at the game, not by trying to follow a specific “strategy” because someone told them to.

was the first time for me tho, had never done it before.. one of them later told us that we needed to rush so we did, they all died and i decided screw this and soloed up to the boss as said before.

but in the end i wasnt there to have fun, i hate dungeons but i wanted that helmet.

My mistake -

Jiiub.7135:

one of them later told us that we needed to rush so we did, they all died

I cannot defend people who want to “rush” content, esp. if they fail miserably. My previous statement would not apply to a group like yours.

Everyone keeps complaining about AC.. I haven’t been theresince the patch but I was at Caudecus manor because its my favorite dungeon. It’s not about DPS that much but about doing the right stuff at the right time..

Now post patch we got destroyed. normaly harmless trashmobs gut buffed some even got new abilities like the archers where able to throw greanades now which knocks you around. It doesn’t make any sense since they are archers and there are already saboteurs present who drop grenades..
Actually the trashpacks got so kitten hard that we burst one mob after another with wipes in between to proceed. We used guardianskills to seperate one mob from the rest of the group but still got mutilated.

Bosses got reworked too like Victoria who now stuns you when she leaves stealth. before you were able to dodge out her sneakattack if you saw he appearing behind you. Now you just cant because you are rooted. Before it took skill to dodge in time to prevent damage, now you cant.

I hear that many dungeons which were difficult before got made even more difficult. I find it rediculous. If they don’t want instances to be farmable reduce the amount of badges

I hope Anet is just letting the new patch settle before “revamping” it again. I hope they realise that some people actually care about the story, back story and lore of all aspects of the game.

All these people who have mentioned that the dungeons are easy are elitists and forget that this is a sugestion thread not one giant argument. I am not an elitist, I am a story driven player and have been apart of Guild Wars since Prophices was released. I love the story that Anet has imagined and I am deeply saddened that in order to experience the story as a whole I have to be an elitist.

Dungeons are a big part of the story. My guild is small and getting a group of five always has at least 2 randoms. I will also not kicked a random for not being lvl 80. So am I wrong for letting anyone join my group? No I am not, only elitistd kick randoms for not being lvl 80.

If Anet doesn’t want to at least give the non elitist players a option to play the dungeons the way they were ment to be play, then why have them at all. They were not developed to be ran through in less than 15 min. They did not spend all that time designing the dungeons for players to not stop and look around and see where they are.

Definitely agree that true-level needs to be taken into account.

Im not saying that we should not be scaled down. All I am saying is that If we are going to be scaled down then the dungeons should not be this difficult.