Guild Wars 2

Each dungeon should sell a specific lodestone that you can buy with tokens from that specific dungeon. The price doesn’t need to be cheap but there should be other ways to get lodestones rather than just luck or gold.

If a fair price would be put on them, I agree.

Out of curiosity, what would be a fair price for you? And do you think the lodestones would have to become account bound in order for them to be sold at the vendors?

the exact # will be hard to determine but in order to not break the game and keep the price reasonable. Here is my suggestion:

Currently 30 cof tokens can be traded in to get 1 rare that typically can be salavaged for 1 ecto and maybe 2-3 mithril. (Sometimes more than 1 ecto)
so 30 tokens = 30s more or less.

Now if we want to keep a price of a lodestone around 1-1.5g, it should be 100-150 tokens per.

I think this would make dungeons worth doing again. I remember the last time i ran any other dungeon except Cof and Fotm for some ascended rings.
With this addition, i would actually start doing dungeons more.

ZilentNight.5089:

the exact # will be hard to determine but in order to not break the game and keep the price reasonable. Here is my suggestion:

Currently 30 cof tokens can be traded in to get 1 rare that typically can be salavaged for 1 ecto and maybe 2-3 mithril. (Sometimes more than 1 ecto)
so 30 tokens = 30s more or less.

Now if we want to keep a price of a lodestone around 1-1.5g, it should be 100-150 tokens per.

I think this would make dungeons worth doing again. I remember the last time i ran any other dungeon except Cof and Fotm for some ascended rings.
With this addition, i would actually start doing dungeons more.

100-150 would be very very fair. You could easily assure yourself of a lodestone a day just by doing two paths of a dungeon. Then of course you could get more by farming paths repeatedly.

And I agree, it would definitely start encouraging people to run other dungeons which would be a very good thing.

ZilentNight.5089:

Now if we want to keep a price of a lodestone around 1-1.5g, it should be 100-150 tokens per.

Charged Lodestones skyrocket at 3g70s currently :

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/24305

It would be nice if the extreme drop rarity was addressed one way or the other indeed.

60 tokens a piece sounds fair to me: 6000 tokens (100 runs) for the 100 needed for a legendary is still a legendary grind, but with the obnoxious RNG variable removed from the equation.

Your proposition doesn’t address the wild disparity of the acquisition length though :
- molten kind = CoF, easily farmable,
- onyx kind = TA, easily farmable too,
- charged kind = CoE, not so much…

I would say 500 tokens per, this puts it on par with the gift of the dungeon. Yes it is a lot but as someone said with the RNG out of it, and multiple 80’s it is not that bad. It would still take a month or so to get the required lodestone’s, although that beats the RNG of maybe getting a Lodestone or a core. You also wouldn’t want to make them account bond at 500, it would allow you to keep them as they are.

Kaimick.5109:

I would say 500 tokens per, this puts it on par with the gift of the dungeon. Yes it is a lot but as someone said with the RNG out of it, and multiple 80’s it is not that bad. It would still take a month or so to get the required lodestone’s, although that beats the RNG of maybe getting a Lodestone or a core. You also wouldn’t want to make them account bond at 500, it would allow you to keep them as they are.

500 is way too much. You can’t make a price assuming that everyone has multiple level 80s that they play on. You shouldn’t need to farm on alts to be able to obtain something in a semi-reasonable time.

500 may be too much considering thats the price of a gift (which you only need 1 of for any given recipe) while lodestones you need upto 250 of.

that would be 125,000 tokens for 1 recipe, if you only did 3 paths a day for the 60 token daily per path that would take around 2 years to get enough for 1 recipe.

Graybes.8251:

Kaimick.5109:

I would say 500 tokens per, this puts it on par with the gift of the dungeon. Yes it is a lot but as someone said with the RNG out of it, and multiple 80’s it is not that bad. It would still take a month or so to get the required lodestone’s, although that beats the RNG of maybe getting a Lodestone or a core. You also wouldn’t want to make them account bond at 500, it would allow you to keep them as they are.

500 is way too much. You can’t make a price assuming that everyone has multiple level 80s that they play on. You shouldn’t need to farm on alts to be able to obtain something in a semi-reasonable time.

I am not assuming people have alts, if you look what I said, I said 500 and keep the lodestones salable. This would off set the influx into the tp. Although 500 isn’t really that much, in my opinion. It is fair to say most people have at least 2 80’s, at least the ones going for legendary weapons do, you can easily obtain 1 every 2 days, 2 in 3 days. I don’t know to me 500 is no big thing.

Dasorine.1964:

500 may be too much considering thats the price of a gift (which you only need 1 of for any given recipe) while lodestones you need upto 250 of.

that would be 125,000 tokens for 1 recipe, if you only did 3 paths a day for the 60 token daily per path that would take around 2 years to get enough for 1 recipe.

that is if you only purchased them through tokens, but the dungeon in most of those runs are going to drop stones or cores, fractals drop stones, Orrian chest drop stones, gold can buy stones. Sure when you look at one aspect it is over whelming but just as someone said you can’t assume everyone has multiple 80’s you can’t just assume your only getting it from one source.

Your looking at 500+ gold for most lodestones for 250 of them
How many fractal runs?
How many chest?
How many dungeon runs ?
I mean you look at all of these as a solo and only way of getting them sure it is a bit much. But when you combine them all together it turns out to not be that bad, hench why I said 500. at 150 you would make that the only way to get lodestones, and then the market would drop out on TP as they would be BoA. This way at 500 it would be a pain to try and farm that as your main source of income and wouldn’t flood the market and would add another source of getting lodestones.

Look at Ascended rings, running a fractal 16+ gives a pristine relic you need 10 for one ring.
Or you can do dailies for 35 or 25 days to get one. In 25 days I can have 2 rings in 20+ fractals if not more.
Or you can go through guild vendor at 20 gold I believe and 50 ectos. The alternatives are always more expensive then the primary way as it should be.

Kaimick.5109:

Graybes.8251:

Kaimick.5109:

I would say 500 tokens per, this puts it on par with the gift of the dungeon. Yes it is a lot but as someone said with the RNG out of it, and multiple 80’s it is not that bad. It would still take a month or so to get the required lodestone’s, although that beats the RNG of maybe getting a Lodestone or a core. You also wouldn’t want to make them account bond at 500, it would allow you to keep them as they are.

500 is way too much. You can’t make a price assuming that everyone has multiple level 80s that they play on. You shouldn’t need to farm on alts to be able to obtain something in a semi-reasonable time.

I am not assuming people have alts, if you look what I said, I said 500 and keep the lodestones salable. This would off set the influx into the tp. Although 500 isn’t really that much, in my opinion. It is fair to say most people have at least 2 80’s, at least the ones going for legendary weapons do, you can easily obtain 1 every 2 days, 2 in 3 days. I don’t know to me 500 is no big thing.

I did see what you said. And you priced them at 500 off the the fact that with “multiple 80’s it is not that bad”…So if you don’t have multiple 80s then what? The price is absolutely ridiculous. So my point still stands that you priced them based on assuming people have level 80 alts because a price of 500 would only be helpful for those who have alts.

problem is these alternative methods aren’t guaranteed either, I’ve farmed all sorts of dungeons and fractals and I can count how many lodestones I’ve found on 1 hand and how many cores I’ve found on 2, considering how long I’ve been playing if I kept farming like this even with 1 every 500 dungeon tokens it would still take me over a year to get it.

I know your trying to preserve the value of them but maybe thats the wrong way to go about it, they are generally far to rare currently there like the precursor of the crafting mat world, it shouldn’t take an average player months of grinding just to see 1 drop.

As you say other things take a bit longer via alternate methods however they don’t take a year to do nor do their base aquire take so long either.

Sure it can all be sped up if you have multiple characters or sit down and do some hardcore farming but you cannot balance rates around that sort of thing because that doesn’t work for the average player.

Dasorine.1964:

problem is these alternative methods aren’t guaranteed either, I’ve farmed all sorts of dungeons and fractals and I can count how many lodestones I’ve found on 1 hand and how many cores I’ve found on 2, considering how long I’ve been playing if I kept farming like this even with 1 every 500 dungeon tokens it would still take me over a year to get it.

I know your trying to preserve the value of them but maybe thats the wrong way to go about it, they are generally far to rare currently there like the precursor of the crafting mat world, it shouldn’t take an average player months of grinding just to see 1 drop.

As you say other things take a bit longer via alternate methods however they don’t take a year to do nor do their base aquire take so long either.

Sure it can all be sped up if you have multiple characters or sit down and do some hardcore farming but you cannot balance rates around that sort of thing because that doesn’t work for the average player.

Personally the Developers stated as the game was coming out that legendary weapons would take 4 to 6 months for the hard core player, and up to a year for your average gamer. NOW this was all throwing into the wind when they allowed them to be sold on TP. There are two major reasons for this

• Profit for arena Net

Taking a % cut off of Sales allows them to A: take gold out, but more importantly B: Sale the gold back through Gem transfers with out creating an over flow of gold in the economy. It is a recycling method.

• To allow the casual gamer a chance to get it

Now I don’t agree with the second point, I think there should be something in the game that is only obtainable to the people that put in the time, not the person who has the Best credit. In all respects Legendary weapons are not that great stat wise any how and your just farming it for the skin really. So why shouldn’t it be to the dedicated.

Also to just assume that the average gamer doesn’t have at least 2 80’s is silly IMO, but it could happen. Although not everything needs to be handed to you, or anyone for that matter. You never need a legendary weapon t do any content, a legendary weapon is not going to make you win a fight in WvWvW, it just is not going to happen. So your wanting a cosmetic skin, why should it be easy? If they change the stats on the Legendary’s then I would be voting for a higher drop rate on Lodestones. Although to put a 500 Token price tag on the Lodestones from dungeon vendors is with in reason. I just started farming my lodestones a little less the 3 weeks ago, with a guild mate we have both obtained around 32 to 47 lodestones. either through getting the Lodestone or cores which are pretty common. At that rate it would take just short of 2 months to farm the lodestones ( and that is figuring the low end) even if you double that 4 months. Fyi that is on one character I been farming them, not multiple.

Your also missing the point of using the TP to get your lodestones. With a month of farming the dungeon, you can get roughly 2.8 – 3.4 gold a day one character. Figuring 2.8 ( not using Omnom’s ) at 29 days you would have 81 gold. That is not taking into account any exotics or rares that could drop or be salvaged. If lodestones is the only thing your farming for I can make roughly with Omonoberry bars, 180 per a month which 58 charged lodestones +32= 90 lodestones. If you took into account my system at 500 per you would gain 101 charged lodestones per a month so in 2 in a half months you would get 250, at most with crappy luck 3 to 4 months. So in turn 500 is actually a fair price.

Also if your in Speed run groups that skip every mob your doing it wrong from the get go. If I do a TA or a CoE run normal I get around 3.4 gold for 3 paths taking out the 20 silver I start with. If I get into a skip group I make around 2.3 gold including the 20 silver I start with. The bags drop T6 mats and also cores, so kill them.

first of all this isn’t all about legendaries.

other than that your still putting the price of something you need many of for the same price that in the same recipe you only need 1 of, even if your lucky and getting as many as you are from farming (honestly I’ve done several days of farming in full MF and omnom etc and not seen a single lodestone drop) you still saying that if you don’t want to grind endlessly it should take you several years to get just 1 component of something.

500 just isn’t a realistic token value for something you will need so many of even if you do buy them and get lucky with farming.

The only reason that a 500 token cost would be valid is if it was determined that their price on the TP had to be unaffected as much as possible, at which point you may as well just scrap putting in alternative lodestone acquisition options in total.

Dasorine.1964:

first of all this isn’t all about legendaries.

other than that your still putting the price of something you need many of for the same price that in the same recipe you only need 1 of, even if your lucky and getting as many as you are from farming (honestly I’ve done several days of farming in full MF and omnom etc and not seen a single lodestone drop) you still saying that if you don’t want to grind endlessly it should take you several years to get just 1 component of something.

500 just isn’t a realistic token value for something you will need so many of even if you do buy them and get lucky with farming.

The only reasokitten00 token cost would be valid is if it was determined that their price on the TP had to be unaffected as much as possible, at which point you may as well just scrap putting in alternative lodestone acquisition options in total.

Are you using your cores? Cause it sounds like your not. Also I just pointed out to you that it would take you at most a month between buying them from TP, drops from dungeons, and tokens at 500. Also MF doesn’t affect chest which is really the only place that Lodestones drop from. I have had 1 in 6 months drop from a mob.

Kaimick.5109:

If they change the stats on the Legendary’s then I would be voting for a higher drop rate on Lodestones.

They already have come right out and said that Legendary items will have their stats changed to always match the highest tier’s stats. So you should be voting for higher drop rate.

they do drop from mobs, but as I’ve said I’ve done many dungeons, looking at just the type that I have the most I’ve obtained a total of 1 lodestone and 10 cores for that type, maybe im just really really unlucky?

And sure I could just farm cash for TP however the whole point of alternative ways to aquire is so you don’t have to just farm gold and buy off people who are much luckier than you.

The problem with saying that it would only take a month between (your) drop rate and TP is that it means that you have to utilize that function, sure you can’t just ignore TP but when factoring in drop rates you can’t say “oh its ok because theres a bunch on the TP” because at some point that sort of thing will end up at the point where only a few dedicated farmers would actually be getting them as everyone else will be on “TP farming”

If your going to put another form of acquisition for something in the game it has to stand on its OWN merits it cannot be balanced around the fact that other people get lucky or you might get lucky.

Chances are someone could start farming and if they were really lucky get as many lodestones as they need in 1-2 days this doesn’t mean drop rates or other aquisition methods should be nerfed.

If they put lodestones in dungeon vendors they’d have to put them at a price where if you where JUST getting them from there that it would take a reasonable amount of time to aquire the amounts needed JUST from that. 500 tokens would as said previously require upto 2 years farming if you have 1 character to get enough for the more expensive recipes at an average gaming amount, that is NOT a reasonable amount of time for an acquisition method.

Hell even if they where 60 tokens each your still looking at 3-4 months if you JUST got them from there with 1 character using dailys. That would be a much more valid alternative aquisition method because while individually it would take a fair while it would a) not overshadow other ways to obtain them b) still give a decent return rate.

Not that im saying 60 would be a good rate, even I think that would be too low, but you cannot go 500 would be ok because you can get them other ways thats not how balancing it works specially not when your trying to make it available to average gamers that don’t have time to spend farming in ways others can.

If they used that method the laurel costs would be MUCH higher.

Graybes.8251:

Kaimick.5109:

If they change the stats on the Legendary’s then I would be voting for a higher drop rate on Lodestones.

They already have come right out and said that Legendary items will have their stats changed to always match the highest tier’s stats. So you should be voting for higher drop rate.

when the time comes and the drop rate stays the same I will be the first one to be yelling for increase drop rate. Although we are not there yet, and unlike a lot of people out there I allow Arena Net to show me what they are doing before I start marching n their door steps.

Dasorine.1964:

they do drop from mobs, but as I’ve said I’ve done many dungeons, looking at just the type that I have the most I’ve obtained a total of 1 lodestone and 10 cores for that type, maybe im just really really unlucky?

Does sound like your unlucky, sorry to hear that but you did I guess get 5 lodestones from the 10 cores.

Dasorine.1964:

The problem with saying that it would only take a month between (your) drop rate and TP is that it means that you have to utilize that function, sure you can’t just ignore TP but when factoring in drop rates you can’t say “oh its ok because theres a bunch on the TP” because at some point that sort of thing will end up at the point where only a few dedicated farmers would actually be getting them as everyone else will be on “TP farming”

I could be reading this wrong so if I do I apologize. But your right you can’t just ignore the TP, although if one person gets 3 and the other person gets 0 in a dungeon the person that got 3 has no affect on the person that got 0. Other peoples drops do not affect your chances at all, you have your own private loot table it is not shared.

Dasorine.1964:

If your going to put another form of acquisition for something in the game it has to stand on its OWN merits it cannot be balanced around the fact that other people get lucky or you might get lucky.

Just like you can’t ignore the TP, you can’t put something into the game ( in this sense acquisition) that stands on it’s own. That is why I made mention of what they did with Ascended gear. When adding the other ways to obtain it they took into consideration all other forms and made sure not to make any alternative better than the original way. Sure for some people Laurels and guild accommodation is better but it takes longer, a lot longer.

Dasorine.1964:

If they put lodestones in dungeon vendors they’d have to put them at a price where if you where JUST getting them from there that it would take a reasonable amount of time to aquire the amounts needed JUST from that. 500 tokens would as said previously require upto 2 years farming if you have 1 character to get enough for the more expensive recipes at an average gaming amount, that is NOT a reasonable amount of time for an acquisition method.

Farming 20+ Fractals one month 3 to 5 rings, Laurels month in a half to 5 weeks 1 ring. In the middle and that was low balling that would be 20 weeks to get it through Laurels. that is 5 times as long. So in turn in 17 months at 15 a month ( between cores and lodestones) would get me 250. with tokens it be about 6 times the amount of time. That is about on par, not to mention Ascended items can be farmed through straight gold to a good degree.

Dasorine.1964:

Hell even if they where 60 tokens each your still looking at 3-4 months if you JUST got them from there with 1 character using dailys. That would be a much more valid alternative aquisition method because while individually it would take a fair while it would a) not overshadow other ways to obtain them b) still give a decent return rate.

Having them obtainable through dailies would be a nice touch, even at a low Laurel price of 5 -10.

Dasorine.1964:

Not that im saying 60 would be a good rate, even I think that would be too low, but you cannot go 500 would be ok because you can get them other ways thats not how balancing it works specially not when your trying to make it available to average gamers that don’t have time to spend farming in ways others can.

Really I don’t think that 500 is a bad price, now hear me out, especially when the problem is not the methods of obtaining but the Very Very scary low drop rate %. Even for the average gamer if the drop rate was better all around and you got say in one days worth of running one one character for 3 paths 3 to 4, between lodestones and cores the 500 would not be an large issue. And at 15 a week ( 3+5 ) that is 60 a month. And at 200 per a day at 29 days that would get you 68 per a month, still taking around 3.5 months not buying any off of TP or through chest, or in fractals, that is spending 1 hour and 30 minutes a day playing and nothing else. I think that is a fair deal for the Very casual gamer, of course the more serious gamer’s would get them faster but no matter which one of our suggestions are in place the more serious would gain it faster.

by daily I mean the daily 60 tokens by path.

The main issue here really comes down to the TP, the TP is technically not a method of aquisition, those lodestones came from the same places other lodestones came from drops and chests, if you utilize the TP as a form of acquisition and theres no one farming them to put there just to make the money you soon have none there.

Personally I would say 180 tokens for a lodestone, thats 1 characters daily path tokens for 1 lodestone which is still a painfully low drop rate, however 500 just makes no sense even if you do calculate regular drop rates/chest rates and then bulk it up with TP buying your still saying that 1 lodestone which you need (outside of rune/sigil recipes) a minimum of 100 of is equivilent to a gift that you only need 1 of.

The only reason I can see for putting it that high is to keep the price on the TP high and to limit people that only get to play a short while a day (enough to get 3 daily paths done) from getting them easily.

Yea.. 500 is WAY too much.. I’d be happy with 60 though, 100 dungeon runs, although kind of crappy, is tolerable.

Dasorine.1964:

by daily I mean the daily 60 tokens by path.

I see what you mean now

The main issue here really comes down to the TP, the TP is technically not a method of aquisition, those lodestones came from the same places other lodestones came from drops and chests, if you utilize the TP as a form of acquisition and theres no one farming them to put there just to make the money you soon have none there.

But the TP will always be a factor no matter how you put it, unless you made Lodestones BoA, then it would destroy the current market. So you have to find the balance, you put them too low you flood the market with Lodestones, making them unobtainable to other types of players. You put it to high then the average or casual gamer can’t get it.

Personally I would say 180 tokens for a lodestone, thats 1 characters daily path tokens for 1 lodestone which is still a painfully low drop rate, however 500 just makes no sense even if you do calculate regular drop rates/chest rates and then bulk it up with TP buying your still saying that 1 lodestone which you need (outside of rune/sigil recipes) a minimum of 100 of is equivilent to a gift that you only need 1 of.

The only reason I can see for putting it that high is to keep the price on the TP high and to limit people that only get to play a short while a day (enough to get 3 daily paths done) from getting them easily.

although that is why in my last example I raised the drop rate to a guaranteeing 3 to 4 a day and didn’t factor in TP. Although I think we are on the same side of the coin here, it is just really finding that happy medium with out destroying the balance.

not sure how flooding the market would make them.. unobtainable?

And yeah its all about finding the balance, I just don’t really think 500 would be that balance any more than 60 would

Since this thread was moved to the Junk yard cough suggestions part of the forums, all our talk is going to be ignored and left to be eventually closed without Robert H ever getting to read it.

Our only hope was if Robert H would read this but its too late, was a good idea but oh well.

Graybes.8251:

ZilentNight.5089:

the exact # will be hard to determine but in order to not break the game and keep the price reasonable. Here is my suggestion:

Currently 30 cof tokens can be traded in to get 1 rare that typically can be salavaged for 1 ecto and maybe 2-3 mithril. (Sometimes more than 1 ecto)
so 30 tokens = 30s more or less.

Now if we want to keep a price of a lodestone around 1-1.5g, it should be 100-150 tokens per.

I think this would make dungeons worth doing again. I remember the last time i ran any other dungeon except Cof and Fotm for some ascended rings.
With this addition, i would actually start doing dungeons more.

100-150 would be very very fair. You could easily assure yourself of a lodestone a day just by doing two paths of a dungeon. Then of course you could get more by farming paths repeatedly.

And I agree, it would definitely start encouraging people to run other dungeons which would be a very good thing.

i agree with the agreerer and the originate person qouted… Lol good idea