Engineers' turrets overhaul

Engineers' turrets overhaul

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Posted by: Manuhell.2759

Manuhell.2759

I assume everyone who will read this thread already knows about the problems with turrets.
But i’ll also add that i find nonsensical that the toolbelt skill is replaced with a detonate option that basically makes them more convenient to put and blast than to have them on the field.
So, for starters, i’ll say that in this overhaul the detonate isn’t there anymore – instead, the usual turret toolbelt skill is available all the time.
To avoid people forgetting turrets somewhere and having to come back all the way, turrets are automatically detonated if the engineer is far enough (let’s say, 3000 units). This destruction comes with the same cooldown reduction of picking them up (as it is supposed you aren’t actually in combat and you just forgot them there).

The major thing of this overhaul, though, is the introduction of some components of micromanaging to turrets.
Basically, a new “resource” called Energy, but it appears on the turret alike to a boon (so that even enemies can see it) (here is a tentative icon, just for example).
Energy stacks and regenerates over time – any turret gains X new energy stacks every Y seconds (for the sake of an example, we could say one every two seconds).
Energy is both used for the defense and active offense of turrets – as is, every overcharge skill has both a cooldown (albeit reduced from now) and a cost in energy.
At the same time, energy works as a shield: every hit to the turret removes energy stacks, albeit capped on an interval (again, for the sake of an example, we may say that only 3 stacks can be removed on 2 seconds). This is to avoid multi-hit/aoe attacks being able to annihilate them, but still giving a way for someone to take down a turret with focused and repeated attacks.
Every turret has a different cap on Energy stacks and different costs for overcharge skills. Tankier turrets (like the thumper one) could have up to 20 stacks of Energy, and lower costs on its overcharge.
At the same time, having a low cooldown and an energy cost on overcharges permits an aggressive use of said skills, but doing so puts the turret in danger (as energy stacks wouldn’t replenish fast enough).
Obviously, the individual energy of every turret needs a visual cue on screen. This could be put on the UI above the related turret, and the cost in energy should be clearly indicated on the overcharge skill as well.
Obviously, with such a change, some turrets’ traits would change as well.

Accelerant-packed turrets: this trait could see a power-up as turrets can’t be detonated at command anymore; thus the damage and area of effect could be increased, and along with pushing back it could also knockdown the enemy.
Metal Plating: this could its name changed to “Enhanced shields” and it would raise the Energy cap of every turret by 5 (so that the tankier turret would have up to 25 stacks). By doing so, it would effectively make them more resistant, thus having the same use of the trait it replaces.
Autotool Installation: This could increase the rate at which Energy is regenerated, along with a regeneration of the turret’s actual health (albeit a slow one). For example, one energy every 1.5s and 2% health every 3s.

Rifled Turrets Barrels would see no change, and so Deployable Turrets (even if this one could be removed, now that turrets would be supposedly usable and possibly causing problems in balancing if people can still put turrets on zones that can’t be normally reached)

There would be also some changes in the tool kit.
With the introduction of Energy, its skills could enhance Energy regeneration or directly add stacks of Energy, thus also increasing both offensive and defensive capabilities if the engineer actively tends on his turrets (since you can use overcharges more often, if you’re also replenishing those Energy stacks you’re consuming).

In regard to the differences between PvP and PvE, the balancing can be adjusted by changing the Energy caps on turrets and the Energy regeneration rate between the modes.

Engineers' turrets overhaul

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Posted by: mercury ranique.2170

mercury ranique.2170

I agree with the exception off the detonate button. Detonate is actually pretty powerfull in damage, and has saved me several times (out of health, protection and just slightly alive, but so was the enemy, detonating my turrets pushed him to dead and I survived).

What bout…If overcharges needs an amount off energy to function and will leave the turret out of energy…change the skillbutton to detonate when there is insufficient energy. It would not only be a good way to teach people to watch the turrets energylvel, but also to not just spam the button.

The icon change should be very visable. Energy levels should be visable in the skillicon as well. (maybe a circle round the turret that fills).

Arise, ye farmers of all nations
Arise, opressed of Tyria!

Engineers' turrets overhaul

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Posted by: Manuhell.2759

Manuhell.2759

I agree with the exception off the detonate button. Detonate is actually pretty powerfull in damage, and has saved me several times (out of health, protection and just slightly alive, but so was the enemy, detonating my turrets pushed him to dead and I survived).

What bout…If overcharges needs an amount off energy to function and will leave the turret out of energy…change the skillbutton to detonate when there is insufficient energy. It would not only be a good way to teach people to watch the turrets energylvel, but also to not just spam the button.

The icon change should be very visable. Energy levels should be visable in the skillicon as well. (maybe a circle round the turret that fills).

I am against the detonation for two reasons: one is that it hinders the pre-existant toolbelt abilities. You shouldn’t have to choose between using a turret or his toolbelt, especially when we’ve got a stun break in there (Rumble).
The second is that i think that being able to detonate them goes directly against the right use of them – that would be, making them stay alive.
Unless it is removed, even if such an overhaul gets implemented, we would probably find ourselves with people spamming all the overcharges as much as possible and detonating them for mass damage, as long as it is more convenient than the intended use (and, probably, it could be so).

And that is a risk with the “overcharge to detonate when there isn’t enough energy” proposal. It could be detrimental if such a way to use them is more convenient than an intelligent micromanagement – they wouldn’t be used as turrets at all, basically.

Regarding the visibility of the energy, i proposed above that any turret would have its amount of energy in the UI above its skill, and also when targeted (so that the enemies can see it as well, at least in the ones they’re focusing). Should be clear enough for an informed use.

Engineers' turrets overhaul

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Posted by: digiowl.9620

digiowl.9620

The detonates, in particular as they are blast finishers, cause all kinds of issues.

Right now the favored way to play an engineer as a “support” is to load up on easy blast finishers, and then drop the healing turret, overcharge and blast as much as possible while the water field is up.

Right now the basic design of turrets seems to be focused on siege. Meaning that a engineer sets up camp in some location and holds it against any comers. We can see this in both the deployment costs of turrets and in that the toolkit can heal turrets. This pretty much turn GW2 engineers into Team Fortress engineers.

Except that this flies in the face of how PVE is played, and a large part of WVW as well.

To fix this turrets should not be something the engineers deploy and babysit in a siege mentality, but rather something that is disposable on par with a mesmer clone.

Indeed drop the detonate, and allow us to use the toolbelt skills at all times.

Also make overcharge the default, and remove the option to pick turrets up. Instead have the last much shorter and start the utility cooldown right away (and maybe shorten them greatly, as the cost vs benefit is clearly out of whack compared to something like necromancer minions).

Turrets should be something the engineer simply drops while running into a fight or away from a fight, and continues to drop while in a fight to aid himself and his fellows.

Not something he sets up in a planned fashion to create a defensive line.

Engineers' turrets overhaul

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Posted by: SoPP.7034

SoPP.7034

I made a turret engineer a few months after launch, since that time I’ve been constantly disappointed with turrets.

I’d love to see an overhaul of turrets. However from what I’ve observed the investment vs. outcome is not proportional for ANet. Consider, how many people use Engineers? How many of them want to use turrets?

I’m sure they will address turrets at some point. However I’ve been waiting for over a year and until they’re prepared to invest time into them they will continue to be marginalised.

A warrior, a guardian, and an elementalist walk into an open field…
The Warrior turns to the guardian and says, “Did you hear something?”
Guardian replies, “No, but how’d the elementalist die?”