"Explorer of the Mists" mode for WvW?

"Explorer of the Mists" mode for WvW?

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Posted by: DracosBlackwing.3174

DracosBlackwing.3174

I was scanning the various threads here and found one on the notorious debate about WvW… whether someone should be forced to fight PvP in order to get Map Completion, and to complete the various non-PvP achievements that you can get there. And then the idea hit me.

What if there was a sort of “spectator/explorer” mode you could enter for WvW maps?

The lore on this would be that, in the beginning of exploration into the Mists, the new explorers in these areas used a safe, partial transmission of themselves into those areas… a sort of “Ghost” form. This form, though mostly insubstantial, had been stabilized by the Asura over time to allow exploration in those zones without exposing oneself to the dangers of other heroes from other places and times (other players).

In this mode you would be a sort of “Ghost” or "Neutral Player”. You could watch a fight unfold, but not be hit or do anything yourself; you would just be a silent watcher. You could enter any defended position (no matter which server controls it) to mark that point on the map, but you couldn’t disrupt it, nor could you avail yourself of any of it’s services (unless controlled by your server.)

Some might say, “But you could scout out an enemy location for your side!” but the “silent” aspect would prevent that; you would be unable to communicate in any way while doing this, not even in direct whispers. Of course any non-PvP interactions or combat would still be available.

The purpose of this mode would be to allow those who wish to complete the map to do so without being attacked, and also to allow those who want to see epic group combat go down to stand by and watch from a good vantage point… once again without getting attacked.

In this mode the player would:
- appear as a “ghost” (translucent, grey) or other “non-PvP” appearance. Could be based on class or race for flavor. (Charr Devourer, Asura minidrone, Sylvari Sproutling, etc.)
- be unable to be targeted or hit, and be able to be passed through by other players (including other Ghosts).

For the trolls in the game the following mechanics would be enabled:
PvPers:
Trying to hit or disrupt a Ghost for too long would result in being force Tped back to the starting point. This would happen after several times, as PvP would likely cause a few accidental collisions. This would disrupt a PvPers ability to remain in mobs and raids.

Ghosts:
Trying to get in the way of PvP would force TP a Ghost to the starting point. This would be for EACH TIME it happened, forcing the Ghost to look at a loading screen instead of actually doing anything.

Each case would require at least 5 seconds of contact, and I could imagine the load screens to be longer than the usual, in order to “punish” the people trolling this way.

Enabling this as a feature of WvW would allow BOTH aspects of those areas to be worked on without really disrupting either. People who wanted achievements only, or who were after their hard fought Map Completions (they did explore the rest of the world!) could pursue these things without getting caught up in PvP, while this mode would actually add another aspect to PvP… spectating. People could come into WvW just to watch fights and cheer (silently!) for their friends or guild (I would let gestures like /cheer work so they could do it, but they still couldn’t make sounds or harass the other side, so no taunts).

This would also allow people to invite their friends or guildmates into the WvW zones to see how things played out and teach them a bit about the maps and fights before those players decided if they wanted to give WvW a try, sort of easing people into things.

I feel this would solve the problem with WvW being intended for PvP mainly, but having so many other, non-PvP aspects tied into it, without ruining the PvP itself. Let me know what you think; comments are welcome, disagreements are expected… trolling is hoped to be avoided, but also expected.

"Explorer of the Mists" mode for WvW?

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Posted by: Tuomir.1830

Tuomir.1830

Even with all ingame communication disabled, a scouting spectator could easily use out of game communication. Besides, I can instantly come up with dozen or so ways to abuse that “non-PvP” mode as you suggested it, for example, aggroing a huge mob of NPC’s and pulling them to a group of enemy players capturing a point.

Only fools and heroes charge in without a plan.

"Explorer of the Mists" mode for WvW?

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Posted by: Klawlyt.6507

Klawlyt.6507

What Tuomir said. You’d also be eating up a slot that the people who would like to use to play WvW could use. If I ever get a que and then see some ghostly tourist, that’d be the day I go back to DCUO.

The possibility of physical and mental collapse is now very real.
No sympathy for the Devil, keep that in mind.
Buy the ticket, take the ride.

"Explorer of the Mists" mode for WvW?

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Posted by: DracosBlackwing.3174

DracosBlackwing.3174

@ Toumir: I know it was kind of a long post, but I said Ghosts would be unable to interact with anything… ANYTHING… PvP based. Which means no “pulling huge mobs of NPCs”. As a Ghost, your only objective is to explore and to complete acheivements. You have no place in the PvP aspect of things.

@ Klawlyt: This concept is based on the idea of “two worlds in one”. As such, Ghosts wouldn’t count toward PvP slots, and vice versa. Each world would be able to support a certain number of each, without interfering with the other. If it was all intermixed, it would defeat the purpose of Ghosts in general. Another way to look at it is PvPers and Ghost would have separate queues for each particular world.

"Explorer of the Mists" mode for WvW?

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Posted by: Seera.5916

Seera.5916

But part of the risk of exploring WvW is going up against other players. If World Completion wasn’t required to get a legendary, then I’d be all for Ghost mode. Because it’s just for a handful of achievement points and laurels. But a legendary to me should be something earned. And one of those methods includes making it, which is the “I’m going to do everything there is in the game except for sPvP” method. And to do that you need a Gift of Exploration. Which is what you get for getting 100% World Completion. To cut out the risk of doing WvW exploration cheapens that.

And this is someone who is not good enough yet to feel comfortable going to WvW who has a long term goal of getting a couple of legendaries.

"Explorer of the Mists" mode for WvW?

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Posted by: Klawlyt.6507

Klawlyt.6507

The number of slots allowed in WvW isn’t a number that ANet figured was the right one. It’s the number that the server can support. It doesn’t matter what your character does in there, or if he does nothing at all. At the end of the day, packets of information have to be sent from your computer to the server, to all the other computers of those playing and back again. It has to do this an absurd number of times per second to make sure everyone’s computers are relatively synced. Even if your ghost people weren’t using skills, your computer would still need to know about a squillion times per second every step that each of the hundreds of characters make, and every skill they use, where it was targeted, and how much damage was inflicted.

TL;DR the population cap of WvW maps is a practical function of the limits of technology. Adding tourists would use resources that could be used for players, no matter how you spin it.

The possibility of physical and mental collapse is now very real.
No sympathy for the Devil, keep that in mind.
Buy the ticket, take the ride.

"Explorer of the Mists" mode for WvW?

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Posted by: Krispers.5217

Krispers.5217

TL;DR the population cap of WvW maps is a practical function of the limits of technology. Adding tourists would use resources that could be used for players, no matter how you spin it.

Think of it this way, those players will be there trying to get world map completion either way. Either they are spending tons of time dying and not contributing, or they are spending a little time to quickly finish off the map.

I don’t agree with the OP 100%, but the fact is that the “tourists” are in WvW right now, climbin’ in yo windows, snatchin’ yo people up, tryin’ to complete ’em some maps.

"Explorer of the Mists" mode for WvW?

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Posted by: Klawlyt.6507

Klawlyt.6507

Hide your wife, hide your kids!

At least said tourists have to put up with being in WvW. If we’re going to give pure PvE’ers a pass, just give them a non pvp instance of the WvW where you can frolic all carefree-like. Or… just not make them do WvW in the first place. Not that I’m in favor of either of those, but they’re both better than ghost mode. Honestly, I think for world completion you should have to have at least played 1 whole match in each of the tournament spvp maps, too.

The possibility of physical and mental collapse is now very real.
No sympathy for the Devil, keep that in mind.
Buy the ticket, take the ride.

"Explorer of the Mists" mode for WvW?

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Posted by: lordkrall.7241

lordkrall.7241

Having immortal scouts would more or less kill WvW.

Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square

"Explorer of the Mists" mode for WvW?

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Posted by: ParnAshwind.4823

ParnAshwind.4823

That would be like playing poker with all your cards exposed…

So, people will have god scouts posted at every point and use some chat program to relay that information to their Commander friends. This will absolutely kill WvW.