Guild Wars 2

Long story short, I had 30 minutes free so I ran cof 1 for the first time of the day and got 60 tokens. 6 hours later, I only had 20 minutes so options on what to do being limited I ran it again on a different character… Got 30 for first time on it. I never understood the reasoning behind DR to begin with, but that’s just unacceptable when you have work and just wanna do something quick and have that kick in on your 2nd run of the day. You said it wouldn’t affect casual players… Elaborate then how that makes sense. Players should be free to do what they want with their time and no matter how much of it as they please, not punished if they enjoy certain things and do them a lot… If twice a day is a lot…..

It’s going to take people to stop being complacent to get them to do anything about DR at this point but people just keep falling into the trap.

but it’s the fight the bots! (even though they aren’t players so they don’t care).

now that DR is here, they won’t remove it. it is simply too good for Anet to have players making less gold.

It’s like they’re on some warpath to limit what you can do with your time. What’s next? You can only play for 1 hour a day before you get locked out?

Agreed, between DR and all the other issues arising lately, I am seriously contemplating quitting this game. I had a lot of fun, however it seems they keep taking that fun away. This is not what I paid for.

I never understood how DR helped to fight bots… bots are bots they will always be able mass farm whatever they are going for. To be honest I think this is why they keep DR.

For instance lets say money. If a bot makes lets say 6 gold an hour times 24 hours, thats 144 gold. They sell the gold on the blackmarket and make like $60, thats enough to buy another gw2 in one day. DR comes out like a month later, whoever did the botting already made a bunch of money.

So DR cuts bot profit down to lets say 4 gold an hour? Well what does it matter? The botter already sets up like 10 more bots from their profit, and easily makes up for measily 2 gold decrease not to mention making a ton of more gold. And hey the botter has so much gold that he even sells it at a discount price. Better than the Gem Store rate.

Which then causes inflation on gems, and in game items. All the while normal players are hit hard with DR. Their farm yields diminishing returns with increasing inflation. Which then just makes it so much more tempting to buy black market gold.

Then of course who profits from this cycle? Well black market gold sellers, botters, and anet does of course. How does profit Anet you ask? Well every time they ban a botter’s account the botters needs another account to keep themselves in business so they buy another game. Not to mention DR makes it less efficient for botters to farm gold but thats why they just buy more games and set up more bots.

Which in turns just means more inflation and anet releasing stricter DR. The basic player great screwed over more, which increases the demand for black market gold, which repeats to the point where DR are is so ridiculous that most people eventually quit the game. I don’t think anet cares about that since you already gave them $60, and the people that stay are gonna cough up money for black market gold and the botters and black market gold sellers are gonna cough up $60 for new accounts when they get banned or need more bots to farm.

What they need to do is get rid of DR and have better anti-bot detection scripts such as is this character flying across the map faster than humanly possible where there isn’t a waypoint (referring to the bots the gather crafting materials). Or are these characters doing the same thing over and over in a non human pattern or sequence such as 100+ identical keystrokes in less than minute.

Cause seriously players shouldn’t be punished for the shortcomings of in game security mechanics. Especially since the method anet is doing at the moment creates more demand for black market gold, and hardly affects botters at all while it cripples normal players. I really don’t see the reason to continue going down this path other than they making money off it and don’t care.

Sedeena.2863:

Agreed, between DR and all the other issues arising lately, I am seriously contemplating quitting this game. I had a lot of fun, however it seems they keep taking that fun away. This is not what I paid for.

How does one quit a game they’re not paying for? Is it really quitting if you can return to it at a moments notice. Is this like quitting smoking or drinking where you have to actively make the choice at every opportunity to not start playing again?

It’s an empty gesture that serves no purpose.

They should remove DR entirely. It hurts legitimate farmers like myself and it does not get rid of botters. I report several everyday in Darkhaven. BTW- I keep the botters on my friends list and report them everyday but even after more than a week they are still there botting away. :/ Maybe Anet should get their priorities straight and focus on removing the botters.

Astra.4021:

They should remove DR entirely. It hurts legitimate farmers like myself and it does not get rid of botters. I report several everyday in Darkhaven. BTW- I keep the botters on my friends list and report them everyday but even after more than a week they are still there botting away. :/ Maybe Anet should get their priorities straight and focus on removing the botters.

See, I don’t think they like “legitimate farmers” any more than they like botters. They don’t want you to farm dungeons in the first place.

Yeah the design philosophy goes something like: “the game shouldn’t a second job, it should be fun. Farming is not fun.”

Unfortunately this doesn’t go over very well with most MMO players who seem to really really like grinds.

If they game is not supposed to be a second job, and we aren’t supposed to farm, then remove the rng and the farming from the legendary. The legendary itself is proof positive they support farming and want us to farm.

Yes please! ANet has had great success against bots. Please remove DR now. And please make story mode account based. Oh, and don’t make rune drops soulbound from dungeons, that is just lame.

Make anti-botting game mechanics as a part of the game. Ex: add CAPTCHA security when receiving gold or rewards lol. EX2: require complex gameplay in all parts of the map(e.g. more than just click to mine a resource) to deter botting.

Whatever the bots are doing, make it 2x, 3x or 4x more difficult to do it.

CureForLiving.5360:

Yeah the design philosophy goes something like: “the game shouldn’t a second job, it should be fun. Farming is not fun.”

Unfortunately this doesn’t go over very well with most MMO players who seem to really really like grinds.

But then, in no way does DR go anywhere near the notion of fun, no matter what you’re doing. Normally, peoples’ rl jobs force them to do things they don’t necessarily want to do at one point or another. DR does that to you. You can’t keep doing things you actually enjoy, you need to stop and go do something that you may not enjoy to get rid of the DR. So it’s more like a second job with DR.

I support anything against DR as I love GW2, but it is an obvious self-defeating concept. The Vigil should just change their slogan “Some must be penalized so that we all may be screwed”.

Not to mention it deters from the community driving aspect of parties. Let’s say I run something once. Then I get into another party and did it again. We have a blast and they want to do it again cause we had a good time… I, on the other hand am afraid DR is about to hit me so I decline. Group now thinks I’m a jerk for leaving when I wouldn’t havr even thought of leaving otherwise.

No, it just deters you and people like you from getting rediculously wealthy for almost no effort. Boo hoo.

I like the idea of getting rid of DR. If the problem is that some of the game content makes it too easy for someone (normal or bot) to build a large amount of resources, that specific content needs to change (harder, less rewards, or something else). Implementing DR is just putting on a band-aid without addressing the root cause.

From that post I assume you’re someone who cares when other people amass things out of your reach which makes the boo hoo part kind of ironic. I don’t. If you have 10 million gold, then good for you. However way you got it is irrelevant to me, I just want to do what I want to do and if it gets me to that point then fine. if not, fine. But don’t punish me for doing it.

That was to Kal btw not Goat who had at least something intelligible to say.

What is DR?

min char

DR= Diminishing Returns. Reduces drops for repeated kills in a single area, thing.

I agree, what is the point in playing past lvl 80 if your only options is WvW and PvP and one or two dungeons a day? Ridiculous..Farming has been the way for people who are dedicated to the game to put hours and hours in to try and make their money and get awesome drops. DR punishes everybody even more so the people who DONT run bots and farm with their own hands, for bot-runners that just shrug it off and make due with lesser drops. This has seriously made me consider quitting the game as well, I’m lvl 80 and I don’t like to WvW every time i’m online i’d like to be able to get money other ways but I keep gettin DRed every time I sit down to play for the night.

an interesting point is that BOTS were used for testing, by Anet: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/180776/Video_Guild_Wars_2s_programming_tricks_revealed.php#.ULbpkoZfaUk
With that experience with bots, one might guess they have other aspects to observe and cue from to deal with bots that would end the DR method which effects all players. 0o

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/On-Botting-and-What-We-re-Doing-About-It

My opinion on bots is the same as those who posted before me. DR affects everyone, not just bots. And agreeing with previous posts, it affects players more than bots as bots don’t care as they can just keep making accounts with whatever they earned from selling gold. Anti-bot solutions should not affect the active playerbase as DR so blatantly does.

The way it feels with DR is like you order a pizza. The delivery guy brings you one slice and tells you he MIGHT just give you another slice maybe tomorrow or a chance of another slice if you go eat some breadsticks in between slices… But you paid for the pizza…

Xaenca.5361:

The way it feels with DR is like you order a pizza. The delivery guy brings you one slice and tells you he MIGHT just give you another slice maybe tomorrow or a chance of another slice if you go eat some breadsticks in between slices… But you paid for the pizza…

That’s not even close to being accurate.

You paid $60 for the game and you got all the content the game provided. You’re not losing access to any content because you’re not rich (granted you’re not going to be buying full T3 cultural gear without gold but that’s one set of armor, and you don’t even really -need- it). You’re not paying for a subscription, you’re not even paying additional cash for new content when it releases (save for when it’s actually a boxed/digital expansion). That in no way compares to getting a slice of pizza (1/10 of the content) when you’ve paid for the entire pizza (all of the content).

DR affects everyone in the game and it’s there for a good reason. It still combats bots, despite wild assumptions made by posters in this thread and if it’s working why get rid of it? Because you can’t farm as efficiently? If it bugs you that much that you can’t farm as well as you used to after you’ve already done some farming take a break. Don’t ask A.Net to make the game worse (by encouraging gold sellers) just so you all can have a better farm session.

I agree with the majority of those posting here, that DR affects the player more then it affects the bot. As a player outfitting my third level 80 it takes a great deal of time to collect the materials and the 90 ectos for a full set of exotics. Now I do not mind farming, I turn the hockey game on the televison and grind away. The wife on the other hand detests farming so I outfit her characters as well so those 3 level 80s so far are in reality 6 level 80s.

Now there are ways they can combat botting without resorting to punishing the regular player. As some mentioned better script detection is the main thing. Another idea that would be easy enough to implement would be a random placement of resource nodes. Currently only a few change position (mainly high level nodes) but the majority are in the same spot they were in yesterday, last week and last month. Change those up every couple of days at random. Put in an algorithm that would shift the node just slightly. The bots rely on knowing exactly where that node is and if it is not there they cannot harvest it as they will not move a couple of steps to the node, the scripts do not work that way.

You can even do that for some of the mobs they love to farm, just shift things slightly. Move a doorway over just a bit. The regular player will not even notice such a change but again the bot script will not handle it as the cords are off.

All that can be done with a small update patch every couple of days and the bots would disappear.

In LotRO bots were abundant in the early going, before free to play. Gold spammers would create a level 1 toon and park him on a corner where he would spam his lines over and over. Turbine encouraged the player base to report and even “grief” those spammers. What we did was have a hunter invite the bot to party up. Eventually after enough invites were sent the script would accept and then the fun began. Hunters could port their party to campsites and we would port the gold spammer out to a high level area, drag a few mobs up to him and then leave him behind. As well if a bot was reported the reaction by Turbine was quick and that bot would disappear usually a few hours after being reported. That does not happen here as Anets script detection is lacking so they have to be more meticulous in gathering proof before banning the bot which is why reports seem to go unnoticed for days.

I still play both LotRO and GW2. Both games are Free to play, both have a store where you can purchase things, LotRO does not have DR, GW2 does, yet I see fewer bots in LotRO in a year then I see in GW2 in a week so something is amiss and it is obvious diminishing returns is not really helping.

Kynmarcher.2184:

Xaenca.5361:

The way it feels with DR is like you order a pizza. The delivery guy brings you one slice and tells you he MIGHT just give you another slice maybe tomorrow or a chance of another slice if you go eat some breadsticks in between slices… But you paid for the pizza…

That’s not even close to being accurate.

You paid $60 for the game and you got all the content the game provided. You’re not losing access to any content because you’re not rich (granted you’re not going to be buying full T3 cultural gear without gold but that’s one set of armor, and you don’t even really -need- it). You’re not paying for a subscription, you’re not even paying additional cash for new content when it releases (save for when it’s actually a boxed/digital expansion). That in no way compares to getting a slice of pizza (1/10 of the content) when you’ve paid for the entire pizza (all of the content).

DR affects everyone in the game and it’s there for a good reason. It still combats bots, despite wild assumptions made by posters in this thread and if it’s working why get rid of it? Because you can’t farm as efficiently? If it bugs you that much that you can’t farm as well as you used to after you’ve already done some farming take a break. Don’t ask A.Net to make the game worse (by encouraging gold sellers) just so you all can have a better farm session.

If you read my post you’d realize that I ran the place twice, and I had a 6 hour break in between… Jesus man, what more of a break do I need in between two runs? Also, that your post assumes everyone enjoys all the other content the game provides. It’s not even worth responding when I know you didn’t read half of what people were talking about, yet can throw things like “wild assumptions” in to your post when you’re the one assuming things…

I still play both LotRO and GW2. Both games are Free to play, both have a store where you can purchase things, LotRO does not have DR, GW2 does, yet I see fewer bots in LotRO in a year then I see in GW2 in a week so something is amiss and it is obvious diminishing returns is not really helping.

I find this somewhat strange, maybe it has something to do with realm population but on Tarnished Coast even with map chat on (I disable it while I am roleplaying simply to cut down on chat spam) I hardly ever see any gold selling advertisements, nor do I get many spam mails from farmers.

I think maybe you’re perhaps seeing more bots in a shorter time period, so you think there’s more, where in reality the actual number is small but you just happen to be seeing an activity spike. Without A.Net’s internal numbers we’ll never actually know for sure.

Either way DR is here to stay and if it does limit the bots (and it is) then why not keep it in? So you have to slow down on your farm a bit, that’s not a massive inconvenience as exotic gear is not needed at any stage (unless you plan on diving into WvW or hard path explorable dungeons but even those are skill based more than gear based so even then you can survive without it). I’m just not seeing the point in taking out a system which hurts gold farming so you can farm more gold.

Xaenca.5361:

Kynmarcher.2184:

Xaenca.5361:

The way it feels with DR is like you order a pizza. The delivery guy brings you one slice and tells you he MIGHT just give you another slice maybe tomorrow or a chance of another slice if you go eat some breadsticks in between slices… But you paid for the pizza…

That’s not even close to being accurate.

You paid $60 for the game and you got all the content the game provided. You’re not losing access to any content because you’re not rich (granted you’re not going to be buying full T3 cultural gear without gold but that’s one set of armor, and you don’t even really -need- it). You’re not paying for a subscription, you’re not even paying additional cash for new content when it releases (save for when it’s actually a boxed/digital expansion). That in no way compares to getting a slice of pizza (1/10 of the content) when you’ve paid for the entire pizza (all of the content).

DR affects everyone in the game and it’s there for a good reason. It still combats bots, despite wild assumptions made by posters in this thread and if it’s working why get rid of it? Because you can’t farm as efficiently? If it bugs you that much that you can’t farm as well as you used to after you’ve already done some farming take a break. Don’t ask A.Net to make the game worse (by encouraging gold sellers) just so you all can have a better farm session.

If you read my post you’d realize that I ran the place twice, and I had a 6 hour break in between… Jesus man, what more of a break do I need in between two runs? Also, that your post assumes everyone enjoys all the other content the game provides. It’s not even worth responding when I know you didn’t read half of what people were talking about, yet can throw things like “wild assumptions” in to your post when you’re the one assuming things…

You assume much when you say that I ’didn’t read the posts’ since you can’t see what I read. In fact I did read all the posts, and in all of them I didn’t see any legitimate point. It hurts gold farmers, you’re essentially asking A.net to help gold farmers so you can have a slightly better farming experience.

The wild assumptions was directed to all the people saying that it ’doesn’t affect gold farmers’ since they can’t possibly know that without having access to A.net’s internal logs (key note: they don’t have access to them). Just imagine, if you had decided to take just a bit longer than 30 minutes in that dungeon, you’d have not actually triggered DR as it only triggers for dungeons if you run the dungeons consecutively or if you finish the dungeon in 30 minutes or less.

For the record, the way DR works in dungeons is like this:

30 minutes or less triggers DR automatically.
Running the same path more than once a day triggers DR.

So you can run AC path 1 for 60 tokens
Then you can run AC path 2 for 60 tokens.
Then you can run CoF path 1 for 60 tokens.
Then you can run CoF path 2 for 60 tokens.

However if you decide to run AC or CoF path 1 or 2 again the same day you will get 30 tokens instead due to DR.

Euuuhm what means DR?

DR = Diminishing Returns

It was implemented by A.net to cut down on bots/exploits gaining an unfair advantage over the economy. Essentially once you trigger DR (which is surprisingly difficult on the average character unless you do hardcore farming) your rewards are slowly decreased over time the more you repeat the same activity. People see more of it in dungeons, especially with fast path clears in explorable modes. Citadel of Flame Path 1 can be completed in under 30 minutes meaning that if you had a large amount of time on your hands, prior to DR you could go in there and do at least at a minimum 10 runs per day, which netted you at a minimum 600 tokens from that particular dungeon, not to mention karma, silver and other misc loot.

Now if you run the same content over and over again, or you are generally doing something which rewards a lot of loot over a short time period you’ll start to see diminishing returns which lowers the reward you get to a minimum value. Generally speaking the reward gets cut in half, then in half again going down until you get to a set value which doesn’t change. Thankfully outside of dungeons DR is entirely character based, so you can farm on character A until you get hit with enough DR to make the effort vs the reward completely pointless then you can switch to another character and do it all over again.

However for dungeons DR is account based, so it doesn’t matter how many characters you switch to, you will only be able to run CoF path 1 so many times before the time invested far outweighs the reward you’re getting.

The easiest way to maximize your rewards from dungeons right now is to run the first two paths of explorable mode for each dungeon (the third path is generally considered the hardest and more often than not is not run simply because of the extra difficulty, although the reward is a lot better) then return for a second run, but no more than that. 180 tokens per day from each dungeon for four runs which is nice considering that if you just stuck with path one, you’d only get 115 tokens.

DR really only affects dungeons, dynamic events and loot from enemies, it does not affect salvaging.

I run the dungeons for the gear for my characters. I actually like the skins and they actually have the stats I need. If it didn’t give all those other things, I’d still run them for the skins. This game advertised itself as cosmetic upgrades, so why is it such a big deal and cut down on tokens from the runs? You keep talking about the “farm” being the problem, and keep saying I can’t “farm” as well, and this and that about the “farm”. In defense of those who actually do it for the gold, Doesn’t it contradict yourself to speak of “farm” in a negative manner when you yourself stated the things you can buy with the gold are not -needed-? So why care if others have them? In fact, why care what gold farmers are doing if what you can buy isn’t -needed-?

Then you said you read all the posts, but quoted me and told me to take a break from “farming” too much. So again, 50 minutes of playing time with 6 hours of time in between in one day is “too much”? Elaborate then your definition of “too much”.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Sedeena.2863:

Agreed, between DR and all the other issues arising lately, I am seriously contemplating quitting this game. I had a lot of fun, however it seems they keep taking that fun away. This is not what I paid for.

How does one quit a game they’re not paying for? Is it really quitting if you can return to it at a moments notice. Is this like quitting smoking or drinking where you have to actively make the choice at every opportunity to not start playing again?

It’s an empty gesture that serves no purpose.

You don’t need to have payed a subscription fee to “quit playing” the very act of not playing means 1 less player. If 10,000 players (who also don’t pay anything) suddenly stopped playing what do you think will happen?

The game will not only loose out on the 5-15% of those players who would have spent money for gems, but also the game is now less popular meaning less people are inclined to stay and then more players leave again.

Basicly it’s whats called a vicious circle.

but quoted me

I only quoted you because of your hideous analogy in comparing this game to a pizza.

Perhaps I worded my post wrong when I said you needed to take a break from farming, but I stand by everything else I’ve said which is that DR is hurting bots and that the wild assumptions from people saying it doesn’t cannot hold up in an argument.

There are optimal ways for you to farm for tokens so use them if that’s what you -really- want. Four runs per day for 180 tokens per dungeon provided that you don’t complete any run in under 30 minutes. Stop whinging because you took the fast spammable route and as a result your reward is being cut by anti-botting mechanisms.

I agree with Kyn, everybody should suffer from the DR. You want to run the same dungeon path again for some money because you prefer it over the others? Well, get out, because you might as well be hacking (unless you are ridiculously slow).

I mean it is obviously working (not counting the 10s of thousands of lower materials flooding the market more than usual this week in stacks of 1k+ undercutting by approximately 30 percent each time).

You can defend DR all you want Kyn, but if WoW did it better then so can Anet.

Wow did it better?

How has WoW done it better? There are zero systems implemented in WoW which combat bots. The Warden is a detection tool but it doesn’t catch the majority of the bots (just any botter that happens to use one the warden is already programmed to find) and a large number of bots remain in play until Blizzard can ban them all in one massive wave.

Meanwhile account hacking is still beyond common, gold spammers can be found on every server spamming /say and public channels, people still get mail spam every day and bots run rampant in multiple areas of the world. There are hundreds of sites offering WoW gold and people continue to buy it because they are too lazy to farm and have excess cash regardless of the illegality (in regards to the ToS) of the purchase.

I have been playing on Tarnished Coast with Map chat on for over a week now. Want to know how many gold spammers I saw advertising in Map? (or in say at the DR trading post) Two. Want to know how many mails I got from gold spammers? Zero. Now I can’t speak for the amount of account hackings going on in the game, but I’m going to take a good guess that the recent forced password change and the availability of the google authenticator has cut those down quite a bit as well. I don’t have the numbers for that though so that is at best a guess.

WoW did it better… that’s comedy gold right there.

Kynmarcher.2184:

but quoted me

I only quoted you because of your hideous analogy in comparing this game to a pizza.

Perhaps I worded my post wrong when I said you needed to take a break from farming, but I stand by everything else I’ve said which is that DR is hurting bots and that the wild assumptions from people saying it doesn’t cannot hold up in an argument.

There are optimal ways for you to farm for tokens so use them if that’s what you -really- want. Four runs per day for 180 tokens per dungeon provided that you don’t complete any run in under 30 minutes. Stop whinging because you took the fast spammable route and as a result your reward is being cut by anti-botting mechanisms.

And you’re still unable to explain what the problem is with a “fast spammable route”. You can’t say it’s gold cause you clearly said it’s not needed, so what’s the problem with it? At this point, no matter what you say it will contradict something else you said. It’s like you’re disagreeing just for the sake of disagreeing. And some of us are actually employed, and don’t have time to run 4 dungeons a day like you. Not “whinging”. Just stating the obvious that this system is a poor solution to what, according to you, is a non-existent problem Since gold is something you don’t need, right?.

Xaenca.5361:

Kynmarcher.2184:

but quoted me

I only quoted you because of your hideous analogy in comparing this game to a pizza.

Perhaps I worded my post wrong when I said you needed to take a break from farming, but I stand by everything else I’ve said which is that DR is hurting bots and that the wild assumptions from people saying it doesn’t cannot hold up in an argument.

There are optimal ways for you to farm for tokens so use them if that’s what you -really- want. Four runs per day for 180 tokens per dungeon provided that you don’t complete any run in under 30 minutes. Stop whinging because you took the fast spammable route and as a result your reward is being cut by anti-botting mechanisms.

And you’re still unable to explain what the problem is with a “fast spammable route”. You can’t say it’s gold cause you clearly said it’s not needed, so what’s the problem with it? At this point, no matter what you say it will contradict something else you said. It’s like you’re disagreeing just for the sake of disagreeing. And some of us are actually employed, and don’t have time to run 4 dungeons a day like you. Not “whinging”. Just stating the obvious that this system is a poor solution to what, according to you, is a non-existent problem Since gold is something you don’t need, right?.

You seem to be under the impression that I need to explain anything. I don’t work for A.Net and even if I was I’m under no obligation to entertain you with an explanation… however since I am being charitable…

There are multiple problems with a fast spammable route and no DR attached to it.

1. Too many tokens per day: Prior to DR’s implementation you could earn between 400-600 tokens a day if you had enough time on your hands. Considering that an entire exotic set costs 1380 tokens that means you could have an entire set within the space of a weekend. Your ‘end game’ would essentially be over in 3 days time. After all why would you need to buy or craft any other set? You already have a full set of exotics and on the off hand that you do need another set, well you can just spend another weekend running fast spammable dungeon routes until you get it.

2. Time spent vs reward gained: I’ve said it and you confirmed it, there are some dungeon routes out there (CoF path 1 comes to mind) that are fast and spammable. Essentially you’re earning superior rewards with minimal time/effort investment. My opinion is that if you want the best gear you should put in a significant amount of effort to earn it. Constantly running fast, spammable dungeon routes is not even comparable to someone who runs all the paths of a particular dungeon and actually works for his exotics. Now I’m not saying you don’t deserve the best gear, but what I am saying is that you shouldn’t get it faster than people who are putting in more effort than you are.

3. No other routes would be done at all: Without DR the only dungeons being run at all would be the fast spammable routes. Forget any other explorable mode paths, why spend 40+ minutes running a second more challenging path for a better reward when you can just run the easy route over and over and over again. Path 2 for most dungeons is considered one of the better paths simply because the reward is greater and the effort required is moderate however 90% of the time before DR no one ran it because path 1 was easy, fast and whatever reward you earned in path 2 could be easily outdone by running path 1 twice or even three times.

Those are just three reasons that I can think of off the top of my head, all of them quite valid.

Also nice attempt to jab at my RL situation. FYI just because I say you can run 4 dungeons a day doesn’t mean I do. Like you I also have a job, unlike you I don’t complain when something doesn’t work the exact way I want it to because I actually grew up without a massive sense of entitlement.

You want the best rewards for minimal/no effort, and that simply is not how MMOs work.

You seem to be under the impression that I need to explain anything. I don’t work for A.Net and even if I was I’m under no obligation to entertain you with an explanation… however since I am being charitable…

There are multiple problems with a fast spammable route and no DR attached to it.

1. Too many tokens per day: Prior to DR’s implementation you could earn between 400-600 tokens a day if you had enough time on your hands. Considering that an entire exotic set costs 1380 tokens that means you could have an entire set within the space of a weekend. Your ‘end game’ would essentially be over in 3 days time. After all why would you need to buy or craft any other set? You already have a full set of exotics and on the off hand that you do need another set, well you can just spend another weekend running fast spammable dungeon routes until you get it.

2. Time spent vs reward gained: I’ve said it and you confirmed it, there are some dungeon routes out there (CoF path 1 comes to mind) that are fast and spammable. Essentially you’re earning superior rewards with minimal time/effort investment. My opinion is that if you want the best gear you should put in a significant amount of effort to earn it. Constantly running fast, spammable dungeon routes is not even comparable to someone who runs all the paths of a particular dungeon and actually works for his exotics. Now I’m not saying you don’t deserve the best gear, but what I am saying is that you shouldn’t get it faster than people who are putting in more effort than you are.

3. No other routes would be done at all: Without DR the only dungeons being run at all would be the fast spammable routes. Forget any other explorable mode paths, why spend 40+ minutes running a second more challenging path for a better reward when you can just run the easy route over and over and over again. Path 2 for most dungeons is considered one of the better paths simply because the reward is greater and the effort required is moderate however 90% of the time before DR no one ran it because path 1 was easy, fast and whatever reward you earned in path 2 could be easily outdone by running path 1 twice or even three times.

Those are just three reasons that I can think of off the top of my head, all of them quite valid.

Also nice attempt to jab at my RL situation. FYI just because I say you can run 4 dungeons a day doesn’t mean I do. Like you I also have a job, unlike you I don’t complain when something doesn’t work the exact way I want it to because I actually grew up without a massive sense of entitlement.

You want the best rewards for minimal/no effort, and that simply is not how MMOs work.

That first part already contradicts everything you’ve been doing the moment you started posting here. For someone that doesn’t need to “entertain” anyone, you sure do try to include a lot of wit and coy into your responses, attempting to show a sense of apathy, clearly lacking however from your continuous responses.

1. You can farm and craft an exotic set in a day. So just remove crafting altogether then? It’s waaaay faster than 3 days. Not only that, you don’t need 4 other people to do it. It looks horrible, but it is the “best” you can get. Endgame would be over in a day if you did. Just remove crafting altogether then?

2. Again, crafting comes to mind. It’s a lot less time, so it seems you’d have a problem with anyone in a crafted set of gear. In fact, it’s purchasable with rl money if converting gems to gold. That could be done in sheer minutes. God forbid you see anyone in any of those sets, I guess. Their time spent vs. reward gained is out of this world.

3. I actually am not going to disagree here. But that is a design flaw in my opinion. If other paths are more challenging, they should have better rewards. Path 2 and 3 should give better rewards than path 1.

And there you go again contradicting yourself. You grew up with a massive sense of entitlement, but you’d have a problem if DR did not exist. Not sure how it would affect you, other than other people maybe getting things faster than you. You clearly have problems with that as an underlying theme in your messages. Why do you care what other people have?

And again, God forbid you run into someone with a crafted set. That’s clearly not how MMOs work.

Xaenca.5361:

From that post I assume you’re someone who cares when other people amass things out of your reach which makes the boo hoo part kind of ironic. I don’t. If you have 10 million gold, then good for you. However way you got it is irrelevant to me, I just want to do what I want to do and if it gets me to that point then fine. if not, fine. But don’t punish me for doing it.

Do what you want, no one is stopping you. You can do it as much as you want. But to say that it’s not about the money is absurd. No one is stopping you from doing what you want, no one is interfering in any way. You aren’t coming here and complaining that you can’t play the way you want, you’re coming here to complain that you’re not getting the rewards you want for playing that way. You’re complaining because this is interfering with your ability to get rich. So obviously “if not” is not fine, or you never would have brought this up.

You shouldn’t be rewarded for playing in a way that the Devs did not intend you to and do not want you to. They don’t want you to farm. The fact that you want to farm anyway is too bad for you. You aren’t being punished for playing the way you want, you’re simply not being rewarded for it.

DR is slowing botters and exploiters by reducing the rewards they earn. It’s a method that works, sure it’s punishing regular players a little bit but those affected by it are at best a minority compared to the rest of the player base. I can live with that.

DR isn’t going away, so you have three options OP you can either:

A. Deal with the fact that DR isn’t going anywhere and adjust your dungeon schedule accordingly.

B. Quit the game because it doesn’t work the exact way you want it to.

C. Continue to complain over and over again despite the fact that -nothing- will actually change because DR is performing it’s job.

As for me, I’m done here. I see no reason to continue bumping this thread when there are better threads out there that are worth my time.

This entire thread doesn’t seem to fully grasp how diminishing returns work and why. It’s to keep you moving and doing things that are fresh, rather than sitting in one spot and grinding only what’s easiest for you. Much like the rest of the game, it’s encouraging you to broaden your horizons to get maximum efficiency.

The fact that this counters bots is almost like a biproduct.

But seeing some of the argument posts in here, I’m not gonna stick around. Just adding my two cents of why DR shouldn’t be changed. It’s working as intended, and it doesn’t gimp anyone unless you’re fiercely rigid in following the path that it was designed to counter. In which case, it’s more self-inflicted than anything. Let it go, play the game with a bit more variance, and if you can’t do that… Maybe it just ain’t for you.

My story…short.

Since last patch my loot quality is much worse – junk/nothing 1/4 to 1/3 of the time.

The moment I see broken fangs or porous bones appear several times is when I finish my daily and log off. This is how I am “forced” to play your game ANet…

GG /FF.

Come on people, what do you want from this game? If you do the daily in all 3 paths that 180 tokens. You can get exotics in mere days. Personally I find even getting 20-30 per run after very nice. In WoW it took weeks just to get one item with the weekly resets, whereas in GW you can get like 4 in a week. Not to mention the tokens are account bound so you don’t even have to be playing the character you want to gear. There has to be at least something in place though to prevent people from getting a million tokens a day. You know if that were the case people would be complaining about how it’s too easy to get exotics in this game and there’s no challenge. Plus people would buy up all these exotics and salvage them for mats which may flood/affect the economy.