(edited by Dredg.4890)
Fixing Dungeons
So dungeons have been broken for over a year. This is not just the fault of bad structural design, but players also taking advantage of it. Here are my suggestions to fix most all problems.
1. Do not leash mobs.
You know what’s annoying? Running past everything in Arah. You know why? Because there are some mobs with great mechanics. However, nobody, NOBODY will stop to fight trash, and I’ll address that later. Currently, you either know how to run past mobs, or you get kicked or you’re a noob for NOT AVOIDING CONTENT. Let mobs chase players through the entire dungeon. They either face them, or they die. Let content be content in dungeon settings.2. Bosses should drop LOOT
and I’m not talking about those worthless goodie bags that we just salvage through. Ascended Materials, personalized upgrades, something that makes you feel good about killing the boss. How about a gold per boss to make the attempts worth the repair bill? Make the bosses lucrative and you’ll see players engage them more.3. Dungeon Complete Daily.
Random dungeon per day, all paths, all bosses, counts towards daily. Fair?4. Make Trash Meaningful.
No more excessive trash that would make a dungeon 3 hours long. Dungeons should take 30 minutes, tops. Arah maybe 1 hour. Make them drop loot. Every single one of them. I don’t care if i have to salvage every 15 minutes if i know that everything i kill is worthwhile. Make a mass-loot function so i don’t get carpal tunnel spamming F to loot everything.5. Define the Play Area
So, you know how well AC goes? Let me tell you. Spider Queen is Glitch-fought. Troll is avoided (see #2). Kholer, when engaged, is also glitch-fought. So is Colossus, so is Howling King. Counting bosses for all paths, 8 encounters are glitched and 6 are completely avoided by option. This isn’t unique to AC. You want people to do the bosses? Lock the doors, ring of fire, invisible arena walls. DO NOT LET US OUT until the boss dies. Define the play area for bosses, and we’ll be forced to engage them, and not via glitching spider queen through a freaking pillar.6. Rampaging. Dragons.
Off topic, but how about The Shatterer trashes Lion’s Arch and won’t stop until we kill him? How about using supply to rebuild our pirate town?
Agree on everything except 6, which is a very cool idea. I just find that LA is already a lag festival and really graphically intense just loading all the character models. Throw effects into that and that place will be a complete loading nightmare, and many people will get angry they can’t even get to fight because it literally is completely unplayable.
That, and, people need an area they can feel safe.
If something like this were to be done I think it could work very well instanced, maybe with 4 of your friends and using npc reinforcements possibly giving orders, and it would be unlocked after doing a chain of instanced world events together.
Same as above…
Don’t you recall the great karka humiliation event in LA of 2013?
That event was was kittened and the most lag filled event ever!
So dungeons have been broken for over a year. This is not just the fault of bad structural design, but players also taking advantage of it. Here are my suggestions to fix most all problems.
1. Do not leash mobs.
You know what’s annoying? Running past everything in Arah. You know why? Because there are some mobs with great mechanics. However, nobody, NOBODY will stop to fight trash, and I’ll address that later. Currently, you either know how to run past mobs, or you get kicked or you’re a noob for NOT AVOIDING CONTENT. Let mobs chase players through the entire dungeon. They either face them, or they die. Let content be content in dungeon settings.2. Bosses should drop LOOT
and I’m not talking about those worthless goodie bags that we just salvage through. Ascended Materials, personalized upgrades, something that makes you feel good about killing the boss. How about a gold per boss to make the attempts worth the repair bill? Make the bosses lucrative and you’ll see players engage them more.3. Dungeon Complete Daily.
Random dungeon per day, all paths, all bosses, counts towards daily. Fair?4. Make Trash Meaningful.
No more excessive trash that would make a dungeon 3 hours long. Dungeons should take 30 minutes, tops. Arah maybe 1 hour. Make them drop loot. Every single one of them. I don’t care if i have to salvage every 15 minutes if i know that everything i kill is worthwhile. Make a mass-loot function so i don’t get carpal tunnel spamming F to loot everything.5. Define the Play Area
So, you know how well AC goes? Let me tell you. Spider Queen is Glitch-fought. Troll is avoided (see #2). Kholer, when engaged, is also glitch-fought. So is Colossus, so is Howling King. Counting bosses for all paths, 8 encounters are glitched and 6 are completely avoided by option. This isn’t unique to AC. You want people to do the bosses? Lock the doors, ring of fire, invisible arena walls. DO NOT LET US OUT until the boss dies. Define the play area for bosses, and we’ll be forced to engage them, and not via glitching spider queen through a freaking pillar.6. Rampaging. Dragons.
Off topic, but how about The Shatterer trashes Lion’s Arch and won’t stop until we kill him? How about using supply to rebuild our pirate town?
True, true, true and again true!
You can’t fix all of the blasted ‘out of map’ glitches to skip Lupicus? Make it that if Lupicus stays alive next boss does NOT spawn and blocks progress! Same for Kholer and every other skippable boss! Is it really so hard? -.-
O°v°O
So dungeons have been broken for over a year. This is not just the fault of bad structural design,
Yes it is.
The structure of the dungeons is directly responsible for emergent game play trends. The players are not to blame.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
So dungeons have been broken for over a year. This is not just the fault of bad structural design,
Yes it is.
The structure of the dungeons is directly responsible for emergent game play trends. The players are not to blame.
I’ve seen players attempting to glitch a single fight for up to an hour instead of just doing the encounter. Fun fact: we did the encounter properly and it took 1 wipe.
I completely agree with all the points made. I think ANet agrees on some parts as well but is hesitant or does not have the resources to review all dungeons, with the living story and all. The fact that so many glitches/bugs still exist in dungeons however shows how overlooked they have been.
If bosses drop a gold when they are killed players will find the quickest and easiest boss to kill and that will be the new gold farm. After reading those points it will make dungeons either the best place to farm gold or take too much time for anyone to bother with them. I think dungeons are in a good place now and will get fun again as they start revamping them
TA Aether path completes all that info (except first boss, where you can drag only the robot out of the room after first wipe).
I think Anet did heard our problems and created a dungeon that adresses all that. However, now they need to fix all the old ones.
On the bright side, dungeons are getting better with TA aether one.
Aens / Ellantriel / Nao To Mori / Saelyth. Commander
Guias de Raids en español / Spanish raiding guides
1 – No
2 – Yes
3 – Yes
4 – Yes
5 – No
6 – No
Like your suggestions and even if some dungeons are broken, Anet fixed some too. Like some sorrows embrace or fractal glitches.
Agree with most of your suggestions, only things I can’t:
2. Bosses should drop LOOT
…
4. Make Trash Meaningful.
Like some one wrote before: This is in fact harder than removing the glitches or anything else, because if the loot is too good, people will start farming dungeons and dungeon bosses for gold and good loot. If the dungeon is at some point (too much adds you can’t skip anymore) is too hard, they simply will farm until there, leave and start again. So maybe the loot should get better boss for boss.
Farmer answer:
1 – No
2 – Yes
3 – Yes
4 – Yes
5 – No
6 – No
Like some one wrote before: This is in fact harder than removing the glitches or anything else, because if the loot is too good, people will start farming dungeons and dungeon bosses for gold and good loot. If the dungeon is at some point (too much adds you can’t skip anymore) is too hard, they simply will farm until there, leave and start again. So maybe the loot should get better boss for boss.
This is reminiscent of how treasure chests in Eye of the North worked. With each treasure chest opened in a dungeon, the quality of loot would scale up. So you couldn’t farm the start of the dungeon over and over if you wanted good loot.
And I like it. Each boss has a chance for good loot, along with some silver. But every time you kill a boss, this scales up. Not by a percentage, but on a guaranteed scale. The base reward would be higher with each boss you kill. This would encourage players to no longer skip bosses, by giving them a fair reward for their trouble.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)
I like that scaling loot idea. That, plus better mob design, placement, and a removal of leashing would help. Perhaps barricades in certain places to prevent too much rushing. Powerful groups could always pull a couple packs of monsters, so I doubt speed running will be hindered much. Build viability changes would help a ton. The current zerker “meta” should probably be addressed (either through a boost in other build options or a reduction in zerker power/effectiveness.) Boss range restrictions could probably also go. That always struck me as odd.
Several good idea in this thread. The new reward system for dungeon, that Anet implement a couple month ago did good things and bad things. It push people into more diversity in the dungeon they run each day, since now really give you a small gain to do the same dungeon twice in the same day. This is good, but also its even more skipping than before. Before, i wanted to kill Kholer, and i even ask to kill all silver mobs because with my Gold % bonus (amulet, food, etc) its was worth it. But now, every single trash mobs that i can skill i do. And every boss that i could skip i skip. Its a shame, because i liked to kill kholer. He was hard the first time, but after a couple of try its really not that bad. The problem is that they need to implement several change at the same time or leave the dungeon as they are now. If they force us to kill everything, but don’t diminish the number of useless trash mobs, then people will only stop doing dungeon and this would be one of the worst possible situation for the game.A dungeon run should not a more than 30min per path (exept for Arah) if you have a normal group (not a organized group or a noob group, but a normal group of people that know the dungeon).