Guild Wars 2

Much gratitude to CC Eva for fixing my title (and being my first responder).

Friend Chat – A chat channel where messages can be sent/received by users who have mutually added each other onto their friends list.

Please post if you support the implementation of such a channel.

ANet,

The is a sincere need for a better way to communicate to people we add onto our friends list. Whisper is just far too private/intimate for casual chit-chat for acquaintances who just met.

In other games, like Maple Story, friend chat is a system that works very well. I would go as far as to say it is a key factor in facilitating the success of MapleStory (and maybe other games) in America as a game.

Another example would be FaceBook’s “Wall”. Rarely do FB users tag friends when posting. They just post and hope other people notice.

And you know what…? IT WORKS.
Even if no one comments/likes, people simply enjoy the basic knowledge that their statement was visible to people they’re positively connected to. It’s a relief to put thoughts out into the world (even the cyberworld).

~

A friends-discriminate chat channel is not just a way of communicating to friends.
It is an outlet for in-the-moment thoughts. It is a way of sharing discoveries while playing the game. It is a means of inviting friends to share their own thoughts on matters and let us grow closer together (or come to their senses and unfriend that one weirdo – That’s okay too)

It’s how players in other games show they’re enjoying themselves.

And let’s get one thing straight – When a person adds someone to their friends list, it means they feel connected to that person (be it economically, or socially) more then your average guild mate or group ally.
From my experience, many guild members stay strangers to each other. Sad, but true.

So, when a player sees a friend (even a recently met one) enjoying the game… That player will MORE likely enjoy the game more, compared to hearing guild mates enjoying the game.

So, logically speaking…

>_>

<_<

It’s good for business to implement ‘friend chat’. o.o

ANET, PLS!

/signed

Short Version:

What makes Friend Chat great is that it it creates an extremely friendly and social atmosphere, one where you can always feel like friends are around. I think that’s exactly what ANet wants in their game.

(and it works like that because friend-chat is mainly used for casual conversation. Serious matters are always moved into whisper/party)

-sigh- My fault for posting in the middle of the night.

Agreed, /signed. Anet posting the first comment on a good idea? wink Seems some interest has sparked there :P

So you’re asking for a new chat channel that you and all your friends can talk? Wouldn’t that get very messy very easily?

Example:
I have 5 friends.
Friend 1 knows Friend 2.
Friend 2 knows Friend 1 and 3.
Friend 3 knows Friend 2 and 4.
Friend 4 knows Friend 3.
Friend 5 doesn’t know any of my friends.

I send a message in the friends channel, and thus to all 5 of my friends. I get responses back from all of them, and start talking to all of them as a group, but Friend 5 sees me having a conversation with seemingly nobody. Friend 4 gets confused because he doesn’t see Friend 1 or 2 or 5’s messages. And so on and so forth.

I’ve played MMO’s with that exact same thing happening TimeBomb and i’ve never minded. You get used to it, and it’s a very small price to pay to be able to have a friendslist chat.

/signed

TimeBomb.3427:

So you’re asking for a new chat channel that you and all your friends can talk? Wouldn’t that get very messy very easily?

Example:
I have 5 friends.
Friend 1 knows Friend 2.
Friend 2 knows Friend 1 and 3.
Friend 3 knows Friend 2 and 4.
Friend 4 knows Friend 3.
Friend 5 doesn’t know any of my friends.

I send a message in the friends channel, and thus to all 5 of my friends. I get responses back from all of them, and start talking to all of them as a group, but Friend 5 sees me having a conversation with seemingly nobody. Friend 4 gets confused because he doesn’t see Friend 1 or 2 or 5’s messages. And so on and so forth.

Maple Story had exactly that happen.

A much better system would be to let us create our own chat channels and controls who enters them. That way you can create channels for your friends and know that if someone is in the channel, they see the entire conversation.

Friends chat, private chat channels, yes please!

Red post as my first response?
I have no words to describe the magnitude of “WINNING” this feels like! >_<

TimeBomb.3427:

So you’re asking for a new chat channel that you and all your friends can talk? Wouldn’t that get very messy very easily?

Example:

…I send a message in the friends channel, and thus to all 5 of my friends. I get responses back from all of them, and start talking to all of them as a group, but Friend 5 sees me having a conversation with seemingly nobody. Friend 4 gets confused because he doesn’t see Friend 1 or 2 or 5’s messages. And so on and so forth.

This occurred all the time in my time with MapleStory.
We dealt with this the same way you deal with friend overhearing a phone call.

You laugh and explain yourself when asked. :P

The “mess” you’re concerned with is just another way for strangers to meet through other friends. It’s a mess that works against anti-social tendencies in people. It’s a mess that invites social interaction, which I believe is what ANet wants~

As for the “a friend is talking to nobody” case: Rationalization plays in our favor.
Normal people are smart enough to realize that they do not know everyone on their friends’ lists. So, seeing someone chat is easily interpreted as normal, inconsistencies are brushed aside.

And if a side of someone’s conversation peaks great interest. You can always invite yourself responding to the friend’s message yourself. I’ve never regret going down that rabbit-hole.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

Maple Story had exactly that happen.

A much better system would be to let us create our own chat channels and controls who enters them. That way you can create channels for your friends and know that if someone is in the channel, they see the entire conversation.

OR

Just do what MapleStory, and many other games, already has in-place for when things get messy.

- The ability to mute any individual user whose spamming too much.

Heck, if I remember correctly, MS had a feature that allowed you to block any individual friend from hearing your messages AND a complimenting feature to block any individual friend’s messages from reaching you in Buddy Chat. (Although I never blocked anyone like that, seemed redundant from regular mute or un-friending them)

Note: I’m saying, those sorts of mix ups are a GOOD thing. They’re healthy for the community.

So you want there to be two levels of mute ?
Mute in buddy chat and mute everywhere.
Or are you suggesting that we mute our friends ?

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

So you want there to be two levels of mute ?
Mute in buddy chat and mute everywhere.
Or are you suggesting that we mute our friends ?

Two levels of mute.

The mute-everywhere feature you speak of is called “Blocking”. We don’t want to be that harsh towards overexciting or spammy friends.

If it ends up anything like MapleStory, Friend-chat would be the most used channel for most players. There needs to be a more lenient way for people to (temporarily) mute friends who get carried away while still being able to continue to use their friend-chat channel.

Edit:
Although with the message-suppression feature that currently exists, I suppose the need might not be as great as I think. That thing blocks people for an incessant amount of time.

Dream, can I suggest something simpler? It won’t do exactly what you ask but I think it would be easier.

My whispers channel automatically changes addressee… it’s a known issue. But when they fix it, I suggest they allow multiple whisper channels – more specifically one dedicated to each person you are whispering – exclusively. And clearly marked too with the recipient’s name in place of a custom tag. It would make it easier not to accidently send something to the wrong person, or think the whisper you’re getting is from someone you’re already whispering with. SORT THE SKITTLES!

Zaith, that doesn’t change the fact that Whisper has a level of privacy that feels unnatural for idle chatter that people want to have with their new found online friends.

Sorry, but there isn’t a simpler solution to this. Friend Chat is a real thing that one should accept no substitutes for.

Besides… Having dozens of channels for individual friends sounds more annoying to manage then a single friend chat channel.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

A much better system would be to let us create our own chat channels and controls who enters them. That way you can create channels for your friends and know that if someone is in the channel, they see the entire conversation.

I agree with Snoring. Friendlist chat, multiple mutes, mutiple channels, having strange people you dont know in your channel (friends of friends of friends)…no thanks.
Give us the ability to make custom chat channels and quality of life would greatly improve in GW2.

Chaosx.2471:

I agree with Snoring. Friendlist chat, multiple mutes, mutiple channels, having strange people you dont know in your channel (friends of friends of friends)…no thanks.

Um… You seem to be mistaken.
Only your friends’ messages would be visible on your Friend Chat.

No where do I, or anybody else, say a friend of friend (or further) could see your messages if they aren’t on your list.

Friend chat would be one channel, while Sleepwalker’s customized-chat would be multiple channels.

The second level of ‘mute’ would merely be another right-click option, just like ‘Party Invite’, ‘Whisper’, ‘Block’, etc. Except it would show you muted that person on your list. Very very simple.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Um… You seem to be mistaken.
Only your friends’ messages would be visible on your Friend Chat.
No where do I, or anybody else, say a friend of friend (or further) could see your messages if they aren’t on your list.

Actually, I think it may be you who is mistaken. No where did I say anything about friends seeing your messages either? I would direct your attention below to this post by Timebomb. as I think you missed my point. This is what I am referring to. If I am “Friend 5”, and I dont know friends 1 through 4, they are “strangers” in “my” chat channel, even if I do not see their messages, since I know they are there. And they would remain “strangers” since I don’t have the ability to see their messages and get to know them…like I could in a regular chat channel.

TimeBomb.3427:

So you’re asking for a new chat channel that you and all your friends can talk? Wouldn’t that get very messy very easily?

Example:
I have 5 friends.
Friend 1 knows Friend 2.
Friend 2 knows Friend 1 and 3.
Friend 3 knows Friend 2 and 4.
Friend 4 knows Friend 3.
Friend 5 doesn’t know any of my friends.

I send a message in the friends channel, and thus to all 5 of my friends. I get responses back from all of them, and start talking to all of them as a group, but Friend 5 sees me having a conversation with seemingly nobody. Friend 4 gets confused because he doesn’t see Friend 1 or 2 or 5’s messages. And so on and so forth.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Friend chat would be one channel, while Sleepwalker’s customized-chat would be multiple channels.

You do realize that your suggestion of “Friend chat channel” IS a custom chat channel, right? One does not have to have multiple channels in order to have a customized chat channel, but of course it would be nice to have that option.

What I am suggesting is to just have a plain old fashioned customizeable chat channel, so everyone wins, and instead of having the limitations you propose, perhaps make them into right click options, since you agree those are very simple

Chaosx.2471:

Actually, I think it may be you who is mistaken. No where did I say anything about friends seeing your messages either? I would direct your attention below to this post by Timebomb. as I think you missed my point. This is what I am referring to. If I am “Friend 5”, and I dont know friends 1 through 4, they are “strangers” in “my” chat channel, even if I do not see their messages, since I know they are there. And they would remain “strangers” since I don’t have the ability to see their messages and get to know them…like I could in a regular chat channel.

Then as I explained to Timebomb:

That is just a scenario that invites you to interact with your friend more, ask about that person, and possible add them and have a conversation. That’s called socializing and connecting.

And I say that because it works in other MMOs. There’s no argument you can make against it.

Saying you don’t want to know about your friend talking to other people is like…
- Saying you don’t want to see your classmates talking with people over the phone because you don’t know whose on the other end.

It sounds so anti-social, and I believe that’s what many of GW2’s features are focused on counteracting.

A “plain old fashioned customizeable chat channel” sounds exactly like what ANet should keep GW2 away from.

And speaking of your “customizable chat channel”, here’s a question.

How do your friends respond to the channel?
Do they have to be invited? Or are they expected to whisper back from a message sent by your channel? Maybe they’re expected to have that channel on their chat-box.

It all cases – It’s still a less hospitable environment for casual open conversation compared to the concept of friend chat.

Chaosx, while custom-chat is equally good for letting friends communicate, it’s inferior for allowing a gamer population thrive as a society.

Friend Chat is a real thing that one should accept no substitutes for.

(Plus, like MapleStory, a feature can be added to separate friends into groups, so then you could disable from your chat in groups; which is SIMPLER then a customizable-channel since it would be more deeply-integrated into the UI, making it easier for new players to learn and understand.)

And I only said making a feature like muting, something very basic, into a right-click option is simple. That was not related to customizing a channel for specific friends; don’t screw around with my words, that’s a lame thing to do.

TL;DR version

We want a form of chat that makes the games more social. Customizable chat can’t do that because it restricts who you hear and who hears you too much.

What makes Friend Chat better is that it creates an extremely friendly an social atmosphere, one where you never feel lonely. That’s the exact sort of atmosphere ANet was trying to create with things like cross-server grouping.

~rolls eyes~ It’s like every poster on here tonight is looking for a fight or something lol. I’m not getting dragged into posting wall of text wars. Obviously you are very passionate about your “friend chat” idea, and I can respect that. We obviously have 2 very different ideas about chat channels, lets just agree to disagree, shall we? Good luck with your idea. I can say with the utmost confidence that ANY changes to chat channels at this point would be welcome…even the ones you propose

I don’t believe in agreeing to disagree.

Not when you don’t acknowledge several portions of the idea. And it’s not my idea.
It’s a working idea that’s already been in use for years, like using converting sewage into non-smelly fuel – That’s a real thing they got going in Europe.

That’s why I’m so passionate about it. Because it’s already proven to work.

Friend Chat is not a different idea, it is a step forward from customizable chat.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

So you want there to be two levels of mute ?
Mute in buddy chat and mute everywhere.
Or are you suggesting that we mute our friends ?

Two levels of mute.

The mute-everywhere feature you speak of is called “Blocking”. We don’t want to be that harsh towards overexciting or spammy friends.

If it ends up anything like MapleStory, Friend-chat would be the most used channel for most players. There needs to be a more lenient way for people to (temporarily) mute friends who get carried away while still being able to continue to use their friend-chat channel.

Edit:
Although with the message-suppression feature that currently exists, I suppose the need might not be as great as I think. That thing blocks people for an incessant amount of time.

You are still suggesting a feature which is improved by people muting their own friends. All because that friend is having a conversation with a stranger that you don’t understand because you’re only seeing half the conversation.

But lets say you do mute a friend over their friend chat. Then they try to get your attention through it. What happens to the friendship when you tell your ‘friend’ that you muted him for having non-mutual friends ?

Or, even worse, when your friend says something and you give a very insulting reply because you don’t know the context of your friends message, because the context was provided by someone who isn’t your friend, but is your friends friend. What happens then ?

Come to think of it chatting was often impossible in Maple Story because the chat filter have a very high false positive rate, and any time it detected something it wouldn’t allow, it blocked the entire message. So was this suggestion of your ever implemented in an MMO where the developers cared about players talking to each other ?
Because the Maple Story devs didn’t. Blocking bad words was much more important to them than people being unable to have a conversation because of the swear filter.

- No. Just allow multiple guild memberships (maybe 4-6 max.) and therefore, multiple guild channels.

Back in Diablo 2, they have the /f m command, which would send the same message to everyone in your friends list. However, since that was much shorter than /charactername or /accountname, people usually used that instead of the others, creating situations where you could easily be spammed with parts of a chat that you never were a part of. And the only way to avoid it was to put yourself in /dnd, which blocked all messages.

Honestly, I don’t think that the mess and drama it creates is worth the gains. If you want to talk to multiple friends outside of your guild and you’re too busy to talk to them individually, you probably shouldn’t be talking in the first place.

Squad chat is also an option. In fact my friends prefer to squad me just because they think the squad chat color is easier to read than the whisper color.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

You are still suggesting a feature which is improved by people muting their own friends. All because that friend is having a conversation with a stranger that you don’t understand because you’re only seeing half the conversation.

I never said people would mute each other because they don’t understand half a conversation.
The mute is necessary to stave off spam for times when you have a friend you like who can sometimes get carried away (And there are loads of people with friends like that). Plus, the varies other scenarios people run into with making friends or using chat.

I’m only going to repeat myself one more time. Things like “seeing half the conversation” is a good thing when it comes to casual conversation.
- It allows people to get to know each other more vicariously. That’s something people can’t do in real life, but in a game like Maple, you can do it by choice – By choosing to keep them on your list.
- And it encourages people to converse more when they want to get in on an interesting conversation. And that’s not rude, it’s social. People are smart enough to keep private conversations in whisper.

Now, let me pose two questions to you:
1. How many friends have you added from GW2, that aren’t in the same guild(s), in the last few months?
2. How many of those friends have personally went out of their way to contact you through whisper just to get to know you better?

Cause I’ve added over two dozen. But guess what? Only 1 or 2 have even bothered to say hello. And it’s not just me. I have real friends and guild members who have said the same, other then RL friends, friends list isn’t all that well utilized.

From my experience, these negatives you bring up are insignificant.

Like White.6193 said, people don’t mind. They get used to it because the resulting socializing is worth it.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

Come to think of it chatting was often impossible in Maple Story because the chat filter have a very high false positive rate

You’re either making that up, or it was only implemented in the last year or so.
When I played, it only muted the words that were curse words.

Olba.5376:

Honestly, I don’t think that the mess and drama it creates is worth the gains. If you want to talk to multiple friends outside of your guild and you’re too busy to talk to them individually, you probably shouldn’t be talking in the first place.

The system I’m suggesting ANet follows had better management then the Diablo II chat you mention…

And again,

Friend Chat is not merely a way of communicating with friends.
It acts as a personalized central chat hub where you can hang out with friends, where those friends are free to chat, listen, stay silent, etc..

I prefer the old proven system of user generated chat chanels that can be password protected.
That way you still have some control over who in your friendlist can see what you type (there’s various reasons I may have people in my friendlist and considering them a friend is only one of them ).
In various other games I used those succesfully for alliances, specific themed chats etc.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

You are still suggesting a feature which is improved by people muting their own friends. All because that friend is having a conversation with a stranger that you don’t understand because you’re only seeing half the conversation.

I never said people would mute each other because they don’t understand half a conversation.

Then why did you bring up muting in response to people only seeing part of the conversation ?

I’m only going to repeat myself one more time.

Repeating yourself won’t work. If we didn’t agree with you the first time, why do you expect any different the next time ?

Things like “seeing half the conversation” is a good thing when it comes to casual conversation.
- It allows people to get to know each other more vicariously. That’s something people can’t do in real life, but in a game like Maple, you can do it by choice – By choosing to keep them on your list.

Please explain this point.

- And it encourages people to converse more when they want to get in on an interesting conversation.

How can you ever join in on a conversation when you can only hear half of it ?

Now, let me pose two questions to you:
1. How many friends have you added from GW2, that aren’t in the same guild(s), in the last few months?
2. How many of those friends have personally went out of their way to contact you through whisper just to get to know you better?

How can seeing someone part of a conversation, and thus missing the context provided by the parts you don’t see, ever help you know someone better ?

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

Come to think of it chatting was often impossible in Maple Story because the chat filter have a very high false positive rate

You’re either making that up, or it was only implemented in the last year or so.
When I played, it only muted the words that were curse words.

Oh, looks like they finally removed that stupidity. Still, you’re talking about a feature that existed at the same time the devs thought that filter was a good idea.

Olba.5376:

Honestly, I don’t think that the mess and drama it creates is worth the gains. If you want to talk to multiple friends outside of your guild and you’re too busy to talk to them individually, you probably shouldn’t be talking in the first place.

The system I’m suggesting ANet follows had better management then the Diablo II chat you mention…

How exactly should they manage it better ?
Beyond letting people turn it off, I don’t see anything you can do. And once people turn it off, I don’t see why they would ever turn it back on.

And again,

Friend Chat is not merely a way of communicating with friends.
It acts as a personalized central chat hub where you can hang out with friends, where those friends are free to chat, listen, stay silent, etc..

Or block the friend chat entirely because the stupidity inherent in its design makes it too annoying to leave on.

I would just like to see the ability to move one person to there own tab. I tend to whisper and talk to several people at once, and even making a separate ’whisper" channel the fact that every single post is the same shade of pink with only “To X” or “From X” to help keep track has left me disinclined to speak to more then one person outside of the general channels at a time.

A simple left click on the name “move to tab” that pulls all communication from that person into a separate chat tab. On your end only unless the other person does the same to you, would do wonders for streamlining a frankly bad system. I’ve been spoiled by the flexibility offered by addon-supporting mmos and, if guild wars cannot in some way keep pace then my interest will almost certainly fade quickly

Zaith.9132:

Dream, can I suggest something simpler? It won’t do exactly what you ask but I think it would be easier.

My whispers channel automatically changes addressee… it’s a known issue. But when they fix it, I suggest they allow multiple whisper channels – more specifically one dedicated to each person you are whispering – exclusively. And clearly marked too with the recipient’s name in place of a custom tag. It would make it easier not to accidently send something to the wrong person, or think the whisper you’re getting is from someone you’re already whispering with. SORT THE SKITTLES!

This was my idea- a thousand times this! we so need a way to make handling several whispers something other then a pain

You know how great this will be for RP besides using a party? Just think of having a party with 3 role players and two non role players and you want to do stuff that the two non participants would not like to hear. It just can’t happen in party chat and say will be heard by everyone as well. whispers are unwieldy at best. This will work well for private RP and private moments in that RP.

Friend chat? Ok. But I would rather have user created, persistent custom chat channels like DDO has.

This message was brought to you by a Kitten with a Keyboard

Custom chat channels are the way to go and many games support them. I would much rather have those.

Signed. I was actually very surprised that this game didn’t have such a thing…when I quit MapleStory.