Guild Wars 2

Edit: Sorry for the wall of text. But anyone that reads through fully, I would be more than happy to read your responses. Whether you agree or disagree. Thank you in advance.

This is strictly my point of view, I do not claim that this is the majority. Lets get some feedback on this. Everyone is entitled to their opinions here!

I feel that in the current game, some zones have a better feel to them than others. Some feel more manageable and “geographically realistic”. Other zones just feel like a video game and don’t really immerse you in the world. I will give examples of both.

The good:

For me, the most realistic and enjoyable zones were the Norn zones. The wide open snowfields, massive mountains, gorges, rope bridges, and general level design were just great. Everything there felt right. The minimaps looked clean and easy to read, the enemies were well stylized to fit the theme, and the color palette (even if it was just blue white and gray) was nice and everything seemed to mesh. As I walked through Snowden drifts for the very first time, it felt like I was exploring a harsh environment.

Great job here. Truly awesome.

The “bad”:

For me, some of the most odd feeling zones ( i say odd because it wasn’t bad, but it didn’t feel like a plausible environment) were the Asura zones. Again, let me stress, i am not saying they are bad, or “un-enjoyable”, or not fun. I am talking about the aesthetics, physical construction, and the atmosphere of the zones. I am not talking about difficulty, content, skill points, quests, etc. The Asura zones didn’t truly feel like a jungle. The stretches of jungle that existed were broken up by small Asura towns everywhere, small cliffs, and beaches. They just didn’t feel big enough. You could walk 1 minute in any direction and feel like you moved into a different environment. There was too much snaking around cliffs and impassable ledges in the low zones. But overall, the Asura architecture, city and culture was beautiful and extremely well crafted.

Looks like a nice park I would visit.

What the Asuran Jungles should feel like

The future:

What i would enjoy seeing in the future for some part of the world design is exploring vast areas. Areas large enough to really feel like they are part of a landscape. For example. Trekking across a massive zone in the Crystal Desert. Fewer waypoints in a zone like this would make the journey feel more critical and add an air of suspense and caution.

Obviously you cannot make the whole game this way, because it is not conducive to casual play, and it might not work for solo groups. Also, it may not work with the way the servers are currently set up, or it may not by feasible with today’s technology. But i believe that increasing the scale of geographical feature and landscapes would make it feel more real. Finding a hidden ruin or Oasis in the middle of the Crystal Desert, 10 minutes away from a waypoint would definitely make them feel more special. More like you found it on your own.

Perhaps this is a new game mechanic for a few, certain high level zones. Dub them “explorer zones” or whatever you want. But it would be interesting in my opinion. Obviously this wouldn’t affect capitols, low level zones, dungeons or anything. Would just add a different thing you could experience in a corner of the world.

Wide open and vast.

Last thing to keep in mind would be that a new area like this would require some new mechanics. Obviously trekking on foot might not be ideal for everyone, so a zone specific mount (akin to the Wurms in the northwest region of the Nightfall expansion) might be in order to get around a little bit faster just in case. Also, fewer mobs, but make them larger in scale. Physcially larger. Not just tacking on 100,000 more hit points. Impressive stuff. Maybe a world event culminating in a “Dune-esque Sandworm” sized boss. I dont know. The possibilities are endless. This is what the suggestions are for!

Hmmm….wormsign….

What do you guys think? Any suggestions of your own? Any way to tweak these idea to be better?

Small edit: Perhaps these type of zones could be an “on foot” way to travel between expansions? If a “nightfall/elona” expansion is ever released, perhaps a massive zone would link Tyria and Elona through the Crystal Desert?

I like your ideas. I don’t know how large zones can feasibly get, but even at their current size I think it’s very possible to create the experience you’re after by reducing the amount of waypoints and “civilized” areas. I understand your comparison of Metrica and some of the Norn zones. I really love the Shiverpeaks as well. I would certainly love to see more zones with that kind of atmosphere.

I do think they might need to have something more than just vast areas to cross to appeal to more players, some incentive for players to want to go there on foot other than pure exploration (though I know I would do it for the exploration alone). You can see that a lot of players dislike Orr’s many contested waypoints that make them travel across a large part of the map when they die. Then again you can’t cater to everyone :P I’d really like it.

Thank you for your replay Eivene!

THIS WAS A BAD IDEA. To make the zone more appealing, one could add extreme rewards for extreme challenges. A massive zone boss that drops Rare (Yellow) gear might be in order. Obviously there would need to be all sorts of balance.

Travelling across Orr when its fully contested gets a little annoying sometimes because the landscape is not easy to navigate at all. BUT, I do enjoy Orr for the same exact reason. It feels like a chaotic crazy place. It feels like a risen destroyed metropolis. Traveling through Orr shouldn’t be easy or quick. It feels right. I think half of that is psychological though, you see the waypoints there, but you cant use them half the time. It might be better to just remove a portion of them, and leave the few that remain harder to contest.

But I digress.

As for appealing to everyone, you’re right, you cant make something that everyone will enjoy. I would personally love to explore a region like the one depicted, but the next person might not. Thats why these zones shouldn’t be required to complete the game, or be integral to the main experience (like dungeons or WvW). Make it a separate experience.

There already are super tough worldbossess that drop end game crap. One of the major issues is their end game crap is crap.

GADefence.5634:

There already are super tough worldbossess that drop end game crap. One of the major issues is their end game crap is crap.

GADefence, that wasnt the point of the whole thread. Read the original post. I am trying to address the world design. Not the content. But also, perhaps it wasnt the best idea. I removed it from the post.

But to briefly address the issue, perhaps adding a zone specific currency, like the dungeons, that you could turn in for a specific armor set. Think of this zone as a massive “dungeon”. Just without the confining spaces, preset trails and chains. Discovering ruins or oasis, or unique features could grant a one-time reward in zone-currency, and then completing zone-wide events could grant repeat rewards in zone-currency.

So your post just gave me an idea for a future level 80 zone.

This builds upon what you have said about Crystal Desert, a massive zone, with few waypoints and stuff like hidden oasis and whatnot sprinkled throughout.
Now, we combine a bit of what we have in Orr, DE’s focused around an army trying to gain ground and camps being constantly assaulted.

We take the two concepts, and expand upon them a bit and sprinkle a bit of League of Legends/Dota in for my concept. Perhaps limit it to a new type of PVP, or it could work as a PVE zone.

Essentially, when you first enter the zone, that area will have the only waypoint available to players to start. There will be waves of NPC’s that will constantly push forward. Players and NPC’s will push along different paths to separate points, but unlike Orr, these points will trade back and forth often, and will house the only other waypoints. There will be few camps and whatnot in between, but many cool explorable areas. Lost ruins, Oasis etc. that would have mobs and some interesting DE’s or bosses. It would play out sort of like Dota where the NPC’s and players alike push to the other side, and in the event that you push all the way back, there will be some sort of difficult world boss. It would add some interesting content, but it would have to remain difficult. This would add incentive for people to push across the map, even with few waypoints, and reward those who want to explore, and those who want some sort of purpose. The starting zone will never fall, but everything else can and will if players don’t push across. Basically the way Orr plays out, I feel like the supposed war in that region is lacking, every area almost always seems to be in Pact control, and I feel there’s no back and forth. Having a MOBA style area could bring this feeling. It’d be an interesting concept to play with given its tuned correctly. Also, having it outside of an essential story area would mean its optional as stated in other posts.

This will be one single large zone with potential for an interesting enviroment, and gameplay concept. It’s size, and concept will allow for explorer types and people who want some interesting endgame stuff.

Thank you for your response tkalamba! I won’t quote the whole thing, but I will respond to as much as I can.

What you wrote in your post, about NPC armies pushing across a massive landscape, holding certain points for long periods of time, etc. That is what I originally thought Dynamic Events (DE) would be like. Orr definitely doesn’t feel like an eternal struggle against Zhaitan on my server (Yak’s bend). Pact always has control of Orr, and the small events dont seem to link up in any grandiose way so that you feel like you are pushing back a big army.

I think that a DotA / LoL type zone would be interesting. maybe not the same pace or speed as those games, but something in the similar mindset. Constant NPC reinforcements trickling in, possibly in waves. They bring upgrades, reinforcements, etc. Kinda like a WvW setup, but you are playing against NPCs across a whole zone. Fewer waypoints, and in general, less “animal enemies” would make it better as well. It seems to work fine in WvW. There are at most 2-5 waypoints (depending on the map) and everyone gets around fine.

A zone like this might not be a great place to explore at the same time, but it is defintely an awesome idea.

From what I’ve read on your post, I mostly agree with you. The Asuran areas feel.. splotchy and too open for the jungle they are supposed to be depicting. What I really liked was the idea of ‘explorable’ areas towards endgame content. In GW1, players would group up to take on Rotscale, or to face specific bosses that were several instances away from the nearest town, while definitely not for a pick-up-group, they could be really fun in their own right. I think with the current GW2 engine, adding some vast explorable areas with only a few waypoints or ‘safe’ towns that could easily be taken over by mobs of marauding monsters such as the crystal desert would be a ridiculous amount of fun.

Thanks for your post Subsoniclight!

I agree with your statements about GW1. This was one of the mroe fun aspects in the endgame. The massive treks with groups of people, the fights, the lack of waypoints. Just felt right.

“Splotchy”. That is the word I was looking for! The Asura areas were definitely splotchy. Didn’t feel like they meshed at all. I was fighting hylek one second, then the next i was in a swamp that should be in the human area, then I was looking at Sylvari garden areas…splotchy.

The human areas also felt like they worked. They were realistic. They were very nicely held together through aesthetic and design. Only problem was, certain zones, like Gendarran Fields, just felt a little small. There were the “killing fields” where there was a centaur human battle that happened, but it was right outside a small village that seemed completely untouched by it. It just seemed odd. Also, there were pirate villages right outside the Vigil Headquarters. This also just seemed like it didn’t work. You would think the whole Vigil Alliance would deal with the 30 pirates right outside their doorstep.

It seems like the areas were designed, and then populated afterward to make sure there was a uniform density of enemies, events, etc. This seemed to put some enemies and features in odd places, making the map feel a little smaller.

I really like this idea!

Star Wars Galaxies definitely achieved this in their version of Tatooine.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100202184156/swg/images/c/c5/Tatooine_banthas.jpg

Always felt VERY open and extremely exploratory. I remember the one time i accidentally stumbled upon R2 and 3PO’s crashed escape pod in the Dune Sea, or the Krayt Skeleton near Jabba’s Palace.

And for all the things SWTOR was horrible at, they actually did achieve a fairly accurate and open Dune Sea area.

http://www.electricblueskies.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/SWTOR-Star-Wars-Old-Republic-1080p-Wallpaper-%C2%A9JTGP-01-Dune-Sea-Tatooine-Star-Wars-Desert.png

Now the rest of the games/planets…well thats a different story.

Aeson Thackery.5927:

I really like this idea!

Star Wars Galaxies definitely achieved this in their version of Tatooine.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100202184156/swg/images/c/c5/Tatooine_banthas.jpg

Always felt VERY open and extremely exploratory. I remember the one time i accidentally stumbled upon R2 and 3PO’s crashed escape pod in the Dune Sea, or the Krayt Skeleton near Jabba’s Palace.

And for all the things SWTOR was horrible at, they actually did achieve a fairly accurate and open Dune Sea area.

http://www.electricblueskies.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/SWTOR-Star-Wars-Old-Republic-1080p-Wallpaper-%C2%A9JTGP-01-Dune-Sea-Tatooine-Star-Wars-Desert.png

You know what, that is actually a pretty good comparison. I played Galaxies many years ago when I was younger. I did get the feeling of the imensity of it on tatooine. They did do that correctly. I remember driving out there in my speeder and finding the Krayt skeleton. It felt special because it was so vast and hard to get to.

If they could replicate the mystery and fun of exploration for just a single zone, like a borderzone between expansions, or a DotA style open world zone, or design the existing zones just a little bigger so that they didnt feel so “splotchy” or “gamey” I think it might improve the experience.

They will undoubtedly introduce high-level zones that will be hard to trek.

dimgl.4786:

They will undoubtedly introduce high-level zones that will be hard to trek.

I would hope so…. I am afraid that they will just keep trying to do the same stuff with zones. Being formulaic is what I fear. They have done good so far by removing the trinity, and that worked out. But they need to keep being innovative!