Guild Wars 2

Greetings!

Was struck lately with the thought on how interresting it would be if we were allowed to learn and use the Utility Skills not normally avalable to our chosen class.
Of course, such a change would raise questions about class balance and such, so I will try to construct the post in a manner that involvles Why and Why Not it could be a good idea to implement such a system.

Why?
It would add to the build diversity to the game. Of course, there would be restricions; The game already divide the Utility Skills into Tiers, and it would make sense if only the lower Tiers are avalable for purchase. There could altso be a limit to how many Cross-Class skills that could be equipped at any given time by the player, for example just one.
There could altso be new talents that benefit from using Cross-Class skills (for ex. a Necromancer, it could look something like this: When using a skill not normally avalable to your class, gain X% Life Force).

Why Not?
The issue of balanced skills and the uniqueness of each class fits well here. To implement such a system, there would need to be thorough testing to make sure it fits well with the philosophy of the game. While this is a neat idea, if the concept fails in practice and unbalances the game, it is better simply left out.

Any thoughts on this? Is it a good/bad idea? Any further suggestions?

I would say I have mixed feelings about this. Originally FF14 had this same concept but it was implemented in a pretty errible way because it basically made it so that if you wanted your class to actually be viable you would have to level several other classes first just to unlock abilities.

That being said the traits you got access to made a huge difference in your strength and viability but my fear in this game is it would make certain classes the only class you should play. As in if you can get the dps and survivability from warrior and then add on some good stuff from say necro and engineer then why would anyone want an engineer anymore? that is why I dont really like the idea as much because players will ruin the idea. It would be great for solo stuff but getting into groups would get frustration imo.

tl;dr, while its a great idea at times or on paper or in certain games I do not feel that this game is setup in a way that implementing this would do more good than harm.

The thing is, you can pretty much look at the utilities of various classes and tell what kind of stuff people would take.

How about a Shout warrior with Hold the Line, Stand Your Ground and… Shake it Off? Or a Thief with Veil?

How about every single class with a stealth utility?

The thing is, all classes lack something. That something is pretty much always a thing that some other class has access to. And changing that would mean some serious balancing issues. The end result would be that all skills would have to be seriously nerfed, as the potential combinations of the current skills would be far too powerful. And it’s really not nice to be in the position of seeing the native skills of your class lose their effectiveness because some other class can now use them and create a ridiculous combination.

And as a meta note, the developers pretty much said that GW1 was a hell to balance. So making any balance related suggestions based on GW1 is kinda doomed from the get-go. Nothing like telling the developers “Yeah, your previous game was better.”

I can see what you mean. I did not mean to offend anyone.
Just thought it would be interresting with more skill diversity, and that access to low-tier skills from other classes would be an interresting addition. But as I said in my post, if concept fails in practice, it is better left out.

I’ve been thinking along these lines too since launch. My favorite thing about GW was the plethora of skills that let me constantly make new, fun, unique builds and freely change them out. I’ll admit, I was a bit disappointed initially with GW2 and the comparatively smaller pool of skills from which to build. Also, no build saving/swapping. However, I’ve come to understand and appreciate the complexity that traits & runes & sigils can bring.

Having said that, I’ve often wished that we could assume an abbreviated version of the infamous dual-classing. Namely, being able to unlock a small number of utilities from other professions. It’d be neat to do this via having to group with that other profession to do a quest together as a sort of bonding-and-understanding.

Unfortunately, it would be hellacious balancing this and, of course, the skills chosen from each profession would be analyzed and criticized to no end. You couldn’t choose anything too class-defining like mesmer portal or clones, thief steal or stealth, warrior banners, engineer kits. But something like a mesmer mantra or engineer gadget or a thief preparation would be fun. We wouldn’t have traits to enhance them, so they’d have to be something that doesn’t rely on the strength so much as the mechanics. No stunbreakers, no heals.

GW did “cross-class” effectively with the dual-profession system.

ANet ditched that because it wasn’t what they wanted for GW2.

I really wish we still had the build system from GW.

My personal opinion, it worked in guild wars because guild wars was built around the concept. They said years ago that they were aiming for something a little more traditional with single classes I believe because of the headache issues they had with balancing. I can see their point. Would I like to be able to use other class abilities, sure. Do I need them, no.

If implemented I would use them.

What I would rather have though is maybe some new abilities per class and maybe some Omni skills that were available to all classes, sort of like how racials are. These skills could be used in a utility slot or Elite slot.

That is all.

P.S. I deep down think people keep asking for this only because this the sequel to Guild Wars. If this game were made by another developer, you would never see this topic unless it were along the lines of a what if topic.

This would be an amazing addition but there would have to be several limiting factors, so some class specialty skill types can’t be picked. Off the bat, no class should be able to pick up another class’s Signets, Shouts across the board should not be allowed to be shared between classes, everyone would take Guardian shouts, taking Ranger shouts without a pet makes no sense.

On top of that the following skill types from these classes should not be sharable.
Elementalist: Cantrips and Glyphs(these can’t be used without attunement to start with)
Warriors: Stances and Shouts.
Rangers: Spirits and Shouts(Spirits are only worth while at ranged anyway)
Necromancers: Minions and Wells.
Guardians: Shouts and Consecrations
Thief: Deception and Venoms(not worth it unless traited for it anyway)
Engineers: Kits and Gadgets
Mesmers: Glamour and Phantasms

This would be necessary for balancing to start with.

jpnova.4572:

This would be an amazing addition but there would have to be several limiting factors, so some class specialty skill types can’t be picked. Off the bat, no class should be able to pick up another class’s Signets, Shouts across the board should not be allowed to be shared between classes, everyone would take Guardian shouts, taking Ranger shouts without a pet makes no sense.

On top of that the following skill types from these classes should not be sharable.
Elementalist: Cantrips and Glyphs(these can’t be used without attunement to start with)
Warriors: Stances and Shouts.
Rangers: Spirits and Shouts(Spirits are only worth while at ranged anyway)
Necromancers: Minions and Wells.
Guardians: Shouts and Consecrations
Thief: Deception and Venoms(not worth it unless traited for it anyway)
Engineers: Kits and Gadgets
Mesmers: Glamour and Phantasms

This would be necessary for balancing to start with.

Hmm… True enough, some Class-specific skills would not make it simply because of their nature. Then again, others just might. One example is the Guardian shouts; If you are for example limited to pick one (and only one) Utiliy skill that is not linked to your Class, one Guardian shout might make an interresting choice, but not game breaking. Especially if you tune Talents that does not specificly target Cross-Class skills to only affect skills of their own Class. One such tuning could be that a Warrior talent that reduces shout cooldown by 20% only affect the Warrior shouts, and not the Guardian shout. Same would be for the Warrior talent that allows said Warrior to heal with shouts, putting the Guardian shout at a slight disadvantage, yet still allowing it to be an interresting option.

Edit: Spelling.