GW2 would benefit from some 10-12 Man Raids

GW2 would benefit from some 10-12 Man Raids

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Posted by: Paws.4236

Paws.4236

Hello,

Still very much enjoying GW2, I’m so impressed with a lot of the things you’ve done.

Now my guild from Warcraft have been listening to myself and a couple of other officers who came over to GW2. Needless to say it’s peaking their curiosity.

I honesly think Arena Net should seriously consider putting in a few 10 – 12 man Raid Instances. The 5 mans are good from what I have seen of them, nice and challenging to say the least at times. I’m pretty sure the wVw will be good too.

If my guild is to make the transition from being Warcraft only, 10 – 12 man raids would really make that happen.

Why? because my guild for a long time has always worked extensively on getting our player base to be always included where possible. 5 Man only dungeons won’t allow us to incorporate more members.

After all the guild that plays together, stays together. Seriously consider this as an option Arena Net, I don’t think you’ll be disappointed if you do.

Thanks

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Posted by: TheDaiBish.9735

TheDaiBish.9735

As much as I got nothing against raids as a form of content, a thought struck me the other day: They could actually hurt the game.

Since a lot of the large group content is out in the world (making it accessible), if you go making instanced large group content, then where are all the guilded players going to go? And in turn, what happens to the players that are left out in the world, unable to do all of these big events because players are in instanced content?

Rather than have all the big group content behind a door, why not bring more, larger group content into the world? Where organised guilds can make a difference?

Life is a journey.
Time is a river.
The door is ajar.

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Posted by: dangerhunt.2607

dangerhunt.2607

I have more than 5 friends who currently is playing GW2. It would be cool to run a dungeon with 8 friends or so.

I remember last time I watched a stream vid, where a arena net dev answer such question with :“we will look into it.”
Maybe it does not have to call “raid” . Maybe call it “guild dungeon” or something. For more larger group of people to team up and run through extremely hard and chaotic dungeons. That could be fun.

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Posted by: Paws.4236

Paws.4236

As much as I got nothing against raids as a form of content, a thought struck me the other day: They could actually hurt the game.

Since a lot of the large group content is out in the world (making it accessible), if you go making instanced large group content, then where are all the guilded players going to go? And in turn, what happens to the players that are left out in the world, unable to do all of these big events because players are in instanced content?

Rather than have all the big group content behind a door, why not bring more, larger group content into the world? Where organised guilds can make a difference?

Well Arena Net could also put in a function and Special NPC’s that can spawn a World Event on request from a Guild Leader or Officer, that everyone could join in and participate with and drop the proper rewards for the event. That way Guild’s could have some planning and control to bring the guild together for an event and foster commaraderie within the guild; while allowing outsiders to join in. ( There also needs to be a turn off switch for the event, to stop possible griefing with this feature. )

After all Dark Age of Camelot had raids in their game while still fostering an open world and some of the best Realm vs Realm PVP ever seen in MMO’s. Anyone who played Dark Age of Camelot remembers Darkness Falls Dungeon/Raid instance.

Let’s face it some of the the big devs in Arena Net came from DAOC backgrounds. Thankfully they managed to put aside the 3 factioned combat. Had Daoc brought it to 2 factions like the player base suggested numerous times – it would never have folded.

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Posted by: Awesome.6120

Awesome.6120

Not sure I would call it a raid but areas like UW, FoW, DoA, etc would be a cool addition I think.

[SFD] – Maguuma

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Posted by: TheDaiBish.9735

TheDaiBish.9735

Well Arena Net could also put in a function and Special NPC’s that can spawn a World Event on request from a Guild Leader or Officer, that everyone could join in and participate with and drop the proper rewards for the event. That way Guild’s could have some planning and control to bring the guild together for an event and foster commaraderie within the guild; while allowing outsiders to join in.

Except then you’d either have a) people farming them events, since they’d be events on tap or b) camping the NPC waiting for a cooldown to expire.

Not saying they’d be a bad idea (GW had 8 or 12 man runs), but they’d have to find some way to ensure that people spent time out in the world as well as in the raids.

Maybe you have to collect event tokens to purchase a Raid Key that gives you a shot at it?

Life is a journey.
Time is a river.
The door is ajar.

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Posted by: Paws.4236

Paws.4236

Well Arena Net could also put in a function and Special NPC’s that can spawn a World Event on request from a Guild Leader or Officer, that everyone could join in and participate with and drop the proper rewards for the event. That way Guild’s could have some planning and control to bring the guild together for an event and foster commaraderie within the guild; while allowing outsiders to join in.

Except then you’d either have a) people farming them events, since they’d be events on tap or b) camping the NPC waiting for a cooldown to expire.

Not saying they’d be a bad idea (GW had 8 or 12 man runs), but they’d have to find some way to ensure that people spent time out in the world as well as in the raids.

Maybe you have to collect event tokens to purchase a Raid Key that gives you a shot at it?

I don’t know but just having 5 man dungeons leaves a whole host of my guild out in the cold and we’re use to fielding 3 10 man raid teams in Warcraft. The guild is a very close net bunch and we hate to leave anyone sitting on the sidelines.

I’m just looking at a way to foster guild participation on a pve side, because not all our guildies pvp. So I’m looking for possible ways to add to GW2 without detracting from what makes this game so much fun.

The guild is looking for a sister game to give us something new and different besides Warcraft and build on it. Thus the suggestion to allow a second Guild Chapter House to thrive in GW2.

(edited by Paws.4236)

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Posted by: Nox Aeterna.2965

Nox Aeterna.2965

Well … i cant disagree of what your guild seeks in a game , that is for sure.

But i can disagree that this game should at any point in the future implement “raids”.

I honestly like the 5 man dungeons , and i remember doing the raids back in WoW … it was annoying to say the least. To even think i would need to do it all over again … god no.

Gear Grind: Confirmed – Searching New MMO: Found – Changing MMO: Waiting Launch

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Posted by: TheDaiBish.9735

TheDaiBish.9735

Well … i cant disagree of what your guild seeks in a game , that is for sure.

But i can disagree that this game should at any point in the future implement “raids”.

I honestly like the 5 man dungeons , and i remember doing the raids back in WoW … it was annoying to say the least. To even think i would need to do it all over again … god no.

Point is, ANet could implement it so it’s not ‘required content’ or ‘end-game content’, merely content for larger PvE guilds.

And I found that with raiding, it wasn’t the actual raiding itself. It was the need to keep running content over and over to get to the point where I could raid. And then having to do this process over again next patch.

Life is a journey.
Time is a river.
The door is ajar.

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Posted by: Chinchillin.3426

Chinchillin.3426

Absolutely!

Call it what you like, alot of arguments about not wanting “raids” in GW2 usually revolve around matters that don’t actually have to be included in the game such as repetitive content, hard entry requirements and gear treadmilling.

Most raiders are just interested in organized, instanced, challenging content for larger groups of guildies and a way to show off to the world that they managed it.
The instanced part is important because no additional people lended their aid (as is the case with the frankly really easy open world dynamic event bosses in place today).

Size wise I think 10 would be ideal, it keeps ANets policy of individual skill in dungeons to a reasonable degree and doesn’t turn into a giant mess of people. Anyone who has played 10-man content in previous MMOs is aware that every person needs to pull his/her own weight during a run.

Dropwise, the 10-man dungeon could just drop stuff equal to 5-man dungeons, only with its own token for unique looking gear. The stats on that gear would be same as all the 5-man dungeons, just a unique skin to show off the accomplishment.

I know myself and every member of my guild would be crying our eyes out with joy if content like this was introduced!

(edited by Chinchillin.3426)

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Posted by: GADefence.5634

GADefence.5634

Actually. Raids wouldn’t work in GW2.

Want proof? Warriors, eles, guardians would rule them. Reasoning? They have the highest amount of group support while doing good damage.

Warriors have shouts (which can heal) + heavy armour, and their weapon sets lend well to large groups (good AoE etc)

Eles have good regen, kiting and good AoE.

Guardians have good healing + heavy armour + AoE.

People would rarely carry thieves, might carry mesmers, and would rarely carry rangers. Haven’t played necro enough to comment.

I’m all for bigger group content, but there’s a certain point in GW2 where you reach a “critical mass” of bodies and nothing can really kill.

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Posted by: Lutharr.1035

Lutharr.1035

Actually. Raids wouldn’t work in GW2.

Want proof? Warriors, eles, guardians would rule them. Reasoning? They have the highest amount of group support while doing good damage.

Warriors have shouts (which can heal) + heavy armour, and their weapon sets lend well to large groups (good AoE etc)

Eles have good regen, kiting and good AoE.

Guardians have good healing + heavy armour + AoE.

People would rarely carry thieves, might carry mesmers, and would rarely carry rangers. Haven’t played necro enough to comment.

I’m all for bigger group content, but there’s a certain point in GW2 where you reach a “critical mass” of bodies and nothing can really kill.

that has nothing to do with raids. Thats class balance. 2 different subjects.

Id love to see raids. But Id like to see them give us a particle effect slider cos with everything on max half the time i cant see an mob due to em.

Go back to WoW. Most overused brainless arguement 2012-2013

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Posted by: GADefence.5634

GADefence.5634

“that has nothing to do with raids. Thats class balance. 2 different subjects.”

So either thieves, rangers and the such need a COMPLETE skill retool or ANet needs content other then Raids, which of the two do you think is more likely and better for the game?

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Posted by: tigirius.9014

tigirius.9014

And the ridiculous requests continue!

Yesterday it was bring in some gearscore and some dps meters.

Today it’s let’s give the game even MORE gated gear progression to alienate the REST of the playerbase who would actually stay longer then five minutes (when compared to those making these gated progression requests).

Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!

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Posted by: Lutharr.1035

Lutharr.1035

And the ridiculous requests continue!

Yesterday it was bring in some gearscore and some dps meters.

Today it’s let’s give the game even MORE gated gear progression to alienate the REST of the playerbase who would actually stay longer then five minutes (when compared to those making these gated progression requests).

All got from that was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
How the hell do raids alienate people further? What cos they need more friends? Well lets get rid of dungeons and DE’s cos they require other people too. MMO not xbox RPG.

“that has nothing to do with raids. Thats class balance. 2 different subjects.”

So either thieves, rangers and the such need a COMPLETE skill retool or ANet needs content other then Raids, which of the two do you think is more likely and better for the game?

Those classes aint being left out of dungeons so why would they be left out of raids? I dont see the point of worrying about class balance in raids before they even have em tbh. If those classes are indeed inferior as you claim then they need some love no matter if they implimented raids or not. Balance is needed across the board no matter what.

Go back to WoW. Most overused brainless arguement 2012-2013

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Posted by: Bri.8354

Bri.8354

I don’t see the appeal in large group play at all.

Just look at the dragons if you want to see what raids would be like. The more players you introduce, the less team focused this already individual-focused game becomes and the lower the difficulty becomes. It would basically be a swarm of players attacking a boss with a trillion HP and if anyone goes down, no problem, you have a few people to bring him up in a second. If a few people die its not a problem either, as you still have enough players to fight the boss.

They would need to redo the downed and death system, as well as make enemies have extreme amounts of AoE damage, just to make raids begin to work, but even then raids couldn’t do what 5 man dungeons can’t already do better.

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Posted by: Lutharr.1035

Lutharr.1035

personally Id like dungeons to just scale up like DE’s if more than 5 people are present. Everyone gets what they want, and no ones FORCED into it. That just one idea, but Im sure others could do better.

Go back to WoW. Most overused brainless arguement 2012-2013

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Posted by: Ba air.1372

Ba air.1372

I would like raids, I would switch from WoW if there were raids, but at the same time, there would be a hell of lot of tweaking to do to make them work. The combat, downed, and death system make big fights a giant zerg fest with little strategy. I think they’re have a hard time implementing anything close to the complex strategy and mechanics of a WoW style boss because the combat is just so different. I mean, dodge the red circle and shoot the adds isn’t that bad but that seems to be about all you could see from GW2 raid bosses.

The ui would need some tweaking as well. It’s really bare and simple for something like raiding. Just tracking the boss or a champion in the open world can be annoying.

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Posted by: poe lyfe.5879

poe lyfe.5879

As much as I got nothing against raids as a form of content, a thought struck me the other day: They could actually hurt the game.

Since a lot of the large group content is out in the world (making it accessible), if you go making instanced large group content, then where are all the guilded players going to go? And in turn, what happens to the players that are left out in the world, unable to do all of these big events because players are in instanced content?

Rather than have all the big group content behind a door, why not bring more, larger group content into the world? Where organised guilds can make a difference?

i like the idea but this girl has it right . gotta do it carefully and balance it so players arent all hidden.

Wintersday is for the Charr, also Meatober.

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Posted by: dirkos.7630

dirkos.7630

The problem with this sort of suggestion is that it doesn’t end after one request. After they increase to 10 man then someone will ask for 15. When they do that then people say it would be so much better with 20 or 25 man. Then 30. Ad infinitum. Once they give in then there is no end in sight.

There is no way to win this.

For multiple person content they have WvWvW and PvE events that scale by number of participants. Is your guild doing that content?

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Posted by: GADefence.5634

GADefence.5634

“For multiple person content they have WvWvW and PvE events that scale by number of participants. Is your guild doing that content?”

‘We need more raids!’

‘You could take 40 people and clear out the temple of balthazaar and the other spots.’

’DON’T BE STUPID!’

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Posted by: SarahTV.6470

SarahTV.6470

I desire no raid content, and I feel that this is more a cry for becoming more special than really is needed. Break up your groups, people. You don’t have to run around with 10 or 25 near strangers that you like working with to enjoy a game. The current Dungeons and World Events satisfy just fine.

Exactly what are you trying to accomplish by playing with 8 people and 2 pugs that you aren’t accomplishing right now with two 4 mans with 1 pug each?

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Posted by: tigirius.9014

tigirius.9014

And the ridiculous requests continue!

Yesterday it was bring in some gearscore and some dps meters.

Today it’s let’s give the game even MORE gated gear progression to alienate the REST of the playerbase who would actually stay longer then five minutes (when compared to those making these gated progression requests).

All got from that was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
How the hell do raids alienate people further? What cos they need more friends? Well lets get rid of dungeons and DE’s cos they require other people too. MMO not xbox RPG.

“that has nothing to do with raids. Thats class balance. 2 different subjects.”

So either thieves, rangers and the such need a COMPLETE skill retool or ANet needs content other then Raids, which of the two do you think is more likely and better for the game?

Those classes aint being left out of dungeons so why would they be left out of raids? I dont see the point of worrying about class balance in raids before they even have em tbh. If those classes are indeed inferior as you claim then they need some love no matter if they implimented raids or not. Balance is needed across the board no matter what.

Check out the ten other games and how people feel about them who play that already have this model. There’s serious progression issues for the entire community as well as lore being cutoff from the community. That’s not a good plan, never has been.

you cannot balance raids unless they are open world. END OF STORY. because it’s GATED progression, that’s why.

instancing dungeons led to the market being so bleakly pigeonholed to one specific play style leading people to come to games like these in the hopes that more instanced dungeons and more gated virtical progression won’t be considered by the devs because of the problems that system creates in the community of gamers and how it divides the community.

secondly, don’t get me started on how the players who ask for raids, instanced dungeons, gear progression from both as the sole progression only stick with a game for a very short time and are not very reliable as sources of revenue due to their fly by night attitudes towards gaming like this. in short, the next shiny comes along and they are gone leaving the rest (and majority btw) of the community holding the bag in a game with mechanics like these that break games entirely. SWTOR anyone?

Yeah so let’s just forget this whole idea for a second. We have enough “raids” in the open world areas we don’t need gated progression ones, we don’t need any more dungeons with higher tier progression they’re adding that to appease the real whining minority in this game, and we don’t need anymore community breaking ideas that go along with these systems.

What they need to do is return to their manifesto add more open world content, add more big open world meta events and everything will be fine.

Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!

(edited by tigirius.9014)