Guild Wars 2

Analysis of Examples:
NB: I’m focusing on the gemstore releases for now and hope to add further core game armour examples later. I’m also excluding the GW1 armour sets (Primeval etc.) because they’re replicating sets designed before GW2 and I’d rather focus on new creations that highlight current design trends in the game.
1) Armour sets that meet these maxims:

• Flamewrath: Female | Male | (Reskins, but reskins of one of the perfect examples of gender-balanced armour. The motifs and materials are very similar, asymmetrical features are mirrored, and wherever the lady is showing some skin, so too is the male.)
• Flamewalker: Female | Male | (Another reskin of a decently balanced armour in both aesthetic and skin coverage)
• Trickster: Female | Male | (Very similar designs, male showing slightly more arm but the female version also has slitted sleeves so the end result is fairly balanced as far as ‘revealing’ goes. NB. Very unusual for a male armour to show more skin than the female!)
• Braham: Female | Male | (Similar stylistic designs with key defining visuals present on both armours, such as the helm, spiky shoulderpad, metal dangly diamond bits. Skin coverage is also pretty equal across both versions.)

While I agree entirely, people have been complaining about this since beta and they still continue to release armors that differ thematically based solely on gender (in fact most of them released since launch) they either aren’t listening or don’t care unfortunately.

When I saw the title, I just wanted to link to the last thread discussing this exact issue, but if I’m honest, you did a very fine job laying it out. Good job, here’s four +1s.

I agree with everything you said. (Bonus points for making a point without being condescending, kitten-shaming or sexist towards either gender.)

I also appreciate the layout and readability of your post.

Faowri.4159:

• Phoenix: Female | Male | (Completely different visual designs, as well as being much more revealing on the female than the male version. Male version barely has any thematic touches and lacks a lot of detail lavished on the female version.)

Seriously, that was so disappointing. When I read that Kasmeer’s armor was going to be available in the gem store, I was dying to see the male version. The first thing I did was to check that out, and I don’t even have a male light armor character. I was so disappointed to see a completely different armor.

The second disappointment with the same set happened when I considered getting the Phoenix set for my female Asura and remembered too late that she only got to wear the male set.

I could tell you similar stories about the other armor sets. For example, love the short skirt from the viper set (and I am actually wearing it on my engi right now) but I’m not at all happy that there’s nothing similar for male characters. I’m sure that male Sylvari, for example, would also like to show off more of their glow.

Protoavis.9107:

While I agree entirely, people have been complaining about this since beta and they still continue to release armors that differ thematically based solely on gender (in fact most of them released since launch) they either aren’t listening or don’t care unfortunately.

Yeah, it’s a real shame, but I wanted to have an objective thread to reference since the topic continues to pop up on the forums every time a new armour set is released that isn’t gender-balanced, and quickly degenerates into a mess of controversial topics that really stray from the core problem. It’ll save me the hassle of repeating myself, heh.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

When I saw the title, I just wanted to link to the last thread discussing this exact issue, but if I’m honest, you did a very fine job laying it out. Good job, here’s four +1s.

Thanks! I’ve actually had the thread almost laid out since the Phalanx armour debates, but seeing so many topics deleted on it, I decided to wait until the seas were a bit calmer before posting :P

Faowri.4159:

Yeah, it’s a real shame, but I wanted to have an objective thread to reference since the topic continues to pop up on the forums every time a new armour set is released that isn’t gender-balanced, and quickly degenerates into a mess of controversial topics that really stray from the core problem.

And the best of luck to you and this thread! * fingers crossed *

I honestly do dislike the amount of revealing skin on both genders. And I hate how they seem to define the clothes to be so gender specific. Why aren’t there pants for the women? Or shirtless male (mm <3) armors? Yeah, I hope they try to consider the gender equality thing a bit more.

paragon.6543:

I honestly do dislike the amount of revealing skin on both genders. And I hate how they seem to define the clothes to be so gender specific. Why aren’t there pants for the women? Or shirtless male (mm <3) armors? Yeah, I hope they try to consider the gender equality thing a bit more.

Hate to break it to you. But there are, of both. But just like you gotta sort thru piles of trench coats to find the two that aren’t for medium, you gotta find them. They have better ratios tho. Cause there are more then just the 2 non coat options that medium wearers have.

+1 to this thread i would love more balance of showy armor for males as well as armor that covers females etc.

I meant pants for light armor (for females). Skirts for medium (male). Shirtless for medium (male).

I mean I want pants for females across the three armor classes. And I want shirtless for males across the classes.

I have to agree with this, esp. after seeing that Pheonix armor :/ … well one of them and one strangely named the same …

Arghore.8340:

I have to agree with this, esp. after seeing that Pheonix armor :/ … well one of them and one strangely named the same …

With you on that one. The one shoulder slot that would’ve fit my whole character design and it ended up looking real lame.

The other shoulder slot was a clean CM shoulder but that still hasn’t been fixed in over a year.

one thing you have to keep in mind, when i look at the medium armors most of them are coats but even the female ones are more made for a male body.
that is simply not ok, having the same design in a sense is good but making it pretty much only for one gender so it doesn’t fit the other is not my idea of a good design.
this is the pirate female armor:
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/image241.png
this is the male pirate armor:
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/image583.png
as you can see, it looks quite good on a male but is simply way to big and chunky for a female.

it’s good to have equality within design but you need to keep the female and male body shape in mind.

sorudo.9054:

one thing you have to keep in mind, when i look at the medium armors most of them are coats but even the female ones are more made for a male body.
that is simply not ok, having the same design in a sense is good but making it pretty much only for one gender so it doesn’t fit the other is not my idea of a good design.
this is the pirate female armor:
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/image241.png
this is the male pirate armor:
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/image583.png
as you can see, it looks quite good on a male but is simply way to big and chunky for a female.

it’s good to have equality within design but you need to keep the female and male body shape in mind.

Have to admit, I don’t really see the problem with this one. The anatomical differences between men and women are really not so drastic that a simple coat does not fit one gender while fitting the other. Whether or not you like the given example on a female character is really down to stylistic preference (and the coat is vastly slimmed down/form-fitting on the female character versus the very baggy fit on the male, so again . . . not really seeing the issue from an objective perspective). The female version doesn’t look ‘chunky’ to me, so again . . . that’s subjective. I actually prefer the female version here because the baggy look on the male doesn’t appeal to me, but I appreciate not everyone will share the same tastes. That’s why it’s important not to lock people into certain arbitrary aesthetics based on character gender.

What is ‘feminine’ and what is ‘masculine’ is always going to be a subjective opinion, and since the gender binary is a social rather than biological construct in many respects, I personally find it very annoying when gender-imbalanced armour effectively dictates what is feminine and masculine to me, especially when it ends up limiting the look I can have for my character. In most cases, this is arbitrary and not based on anatomical differences, but artificial gender constructs.

I have a human female mesmer, for example, who I love to dress up in the stereotypically ‘girly’ look with as many frills, laces, bows and ribbons I can cram in there. I also intend to work on a human female warrior who conceptually couldn’t give a kitten about frills and will be in the best gender-neutral heavy plate armour I can find for her. Conversely, I have an attention-seeking flamboyant male asura character who wears the most revealing light armour I can find, and a relatively genderfluid male sylvari who was really disappointed when those cute hotpants-looking town clothes became socially-awkward knee-length half-trousers as soon as he put them on.

Characters have personalities and aesthetic styles beyond their gender, and when you artificially limit the armour options available to them based on their gender, it’s frustrating as hell. My proposal would allow players to choose the look for their characters, instead of the artists dictating what is appropriate based on their gender and forever locking characters out of certain looks based on their gender.

This is a great reference post and touches on the major issues that I and others have with GW2’s armour.

The phoenix set is the biggest offender for this I believe, the two sets look nothing alike, the male version is needlessly dull. To this end I did a quick sketch redesign of the set that:

A) looks more like the female set,
B) would work on both genders.

i agree 100%. . . .

lulu bell.1730:

This is a great reference post and touches on the major issues that I and others have with GW2’s armour.

The phoenix set is the biggest offender for this I believe, the two sets look nothing alike, the male version is needlessly dull. To this end I did a quick sketch redesign of the set that:

A) looks more like the female set,
B) would work on both genders.

Oh wow, that’s gorgeous <3 Thanks for the contribution!

+9000 for this thread. Seriously. I don’t even have anything to add, because you put it perfectly.

just keep in mind that male and female styles do infact differ more often than not, so there isnt any requirement for each armour set to even look similar.

Yes this! don’t udnerstand why they should look different on the two genders. I can understand how the models can be somewhat different but not entirely.

Very good post OP!!! + from me!!!

I really much like what u said about Charr as I happen to be one of those. Non the less a charr wearing medium armour. I feel that Charr medium have been neglected/not taken care of sinse release wich is very sad.. AlI I have to deal with is coats, coats and even more coats, stretched to become tents over our legs. Not to speak of clipping tails, horns lower arms, etc (many gloves do that with Charr Medium T3 chest). I have seen some fixing with flaps/redesign for tails wich is good but that should be done ON RELEASE with any armour!!!
I Have one, ONE armour that is not a coat and that is the T3 chest piece! That is what I’m currently are wearing but it would be nice with something else for a change…..

And when it comes to gender specific looks for charr. Even female charr usually get the Male style look….. I guess people get scared of seeing Charr’s hairy legs….

I have been waiting for a loong time for ONE more good looking medium armour for charr… and I still am.

While I can understand what you mean, I’m afraid I have to disagree (for selfish reasons I admit, so take this with a grain of salt).

I only play with female characters and for pretty much every armor that doesn’t meet these maxims I really like the female version and don’t like the male version. Every armor that does meet these maxims I don’t like at all.

Imho, armor for women should look feminine and armor for men should look manly.

You explained the issues I have with armour very well Faowri, I agree.

let’s look at the T3 human cultural armor, if it’s maxim then you end up having a really unpopular armor barely anyone wants.
it’s a great example to show that, no matter how much you want the maxims to happen, it’s really difficult to do that without making the other gender look so horrible.
if the female version is like the male one then i would simply not see anyone wear it as a female character, if it’s the male version like the female version then i will hardly see anyone being able to stand such an armor.

maxims are fine for particular styles but it doesn’t always work, having a different style for different genders is not always a bad thing if done right.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

I only play with female characters and for pretty much every armor that doesn’t meet these maxims I really like the female version and don’t like the male version. Every armor that does meet these maxims I don’t like at all.

That’s fine. Nobody expects to like every single armour set. However, if an armour set were available to both genders, this would not in any way restrict you to armour you don’t like all of a sudden, so I’m not sure why you disagree with the idea of more variety.

This suggestion would take armour away from nobody. Armour sets that currently exist which don’t meet the maxims would not suddenly become male version only or female version only, and under the suggestion for how to deal with divergent designs, would become two separate armour sets.

It would just allow players to decide what they want their character to wear, instead of somebody else’s definition of the word ‘feminine’ or ‘masculine’.

sorudo.9054:

let’s look at the T3 human cultural armor, if it’s maxim then you end up having a really unpopular armor barely anyone wants.

Based on your subjective opinion. I do not like it when other people’s subjective opinions about femininity and masculinity arbitrarily restrict what characters are allowed to wear. From the positive response in this thread, I’d say I’m not alone.

Please see previous post and final notes – this suggestion does not mean any armour is taken away. It means that divergent designs based on gender become two different sets of armour, instead of the same set with arbitrary gender restrictions.

I play mostly charr and asura to get away from the skimpy armors I dislike, but at the same time, I lose out on some designs that are vastly different between the sexes. The Winged and Phoenix sets are good examples: the women’s version of both are lavished with beautiful details, and the men’s/unisex version looks much more plain.

Let’s get some more consistency!

This id one reason i love the seraph armor (human t3 heavy) as far as my eyes say its as kitten dear identical as you can get. I’m one of countless saddened by the phoenix heavy skin… i saw a male norn waltzing about in it and happily tried it on my (female) human guardian and i was sad =/ An option for which one would be nice like how we pick pve pr pvp for a skin yeah ? Normal/skimpy. That’d be nice.

My female human warrior would like a version of the male phalanx available to her as well that does not look like frilly parade armor just because she is female. If that means the men getting a parade armor variant of what the women got from the phalanx set, so be it.

I would prefer if every armor could be worn be either gender. I mean, I would love it if male characters could wear female skins. There, you would have the perfect maxim. Every gender would become equal.

When you equip a skin, you choose “female” or “male” and voila.

GoddessOfTheWinds.2937:

I would prefer if every armor could be worn be either gender. I mean, I would love it if male characters could wear female skins. There, you would have the perfect maxim. Every gender would become equal.

When you equip a skin, you choose “female” or “male” and voila.

I’d be totally for this and have really enjoyed games/websites where “cross-dressing” is fully enabled, but thinking realistically, I think there are still too many entrenched stigmas for it to get pushed through to a triple-A game – not just in the players, but on the game development side in marketing, publishers etc. It’s a real shame as it’s a great blue sky ideal to aim for and would easily solve all of these problems.