Guild Wars 2

@PNDA, I think we’re agreed in terms of the difficulty then. I think it was definitely too easy if people were completing it in 10-15 minutes every time. I don’t have a problem with hard dungeons, not at all. What I have a problem with is making rewards so completely off base that doing the dungeons is literally a money-losing proposition. I’m not going to spend an hour setting up a group and another hour doing the dungeon simply to throw my gold and silver away.

The main point of this post is about how the many many diminishing rewards systems impact only normal players and serve to discourage people from playing the game.

i am really afraid of the future of this game , it’s getting harder and harder for casuals to obtain equipment while hardcore gamers that rushed the content already have gold and gear ,

why do i have to be punished for playing Anet? why? having a crazy amount of tokens in order to buy the sets and the low rewards system isn’t enough? why do you keep punishing the players Anet?

ChairGraveyard.2967:

@PNDA, I think we’re agreed in terms of the difficulty then. I think it was definitely too easy if people were completing it in 10-15 minutes every time. I don’t have a problem with hard dungeons, not at all. What I have a problem with is making rewards so completely off base that doing the dungeons is literally a money-losing proposition. I’m not going to spend an hour setting up a group and another hour doing the dungeon simply to throw my gold and silver away.

The main point of this post is about how the many many diminishing rewards systems impact only normal players and serve to discourage people from playing the game.

agreed

I agree, there are some extremely stupid things going on here and its starting to annoy me a bit. Why should a few botters tick every single player off? Because everyone needs to collect loot for one reason or another, why are you punishing the normal players for it?

And whats up with the dungeons? Hard bosses that involve stupid or no real strategy in killing them consist of running back from the way point all the time…. I just did Sorrows embrace, well no, I attempted it, but now I feel strongly discouraged to ever do dungeons again because it will be a waste of money spent on repairs, Oh and the lack of interesting strategy… what the hell A-net?

What happened to “no grind”? When you make the good armors cost a ton of Karma and then deny the rewards to players that IS grind.

Not only have they punished players for overparticipation in dynamic events, but they level scale you down to make each fight a battle WITHOUT scaling up your loot/gold/karma.

In reality Anet caused this farming behavior in the first place. By making gold/Karma/XP hard to come by. This whole thing is bizarre and offputting.

Anet should NEVER punish players for playing how they want period.

Its even worst that there is no way in hell that players can gather enough materials to craft items that are at your own level without actually having to go farming for them OR buy them at the trading post. Anyone knows that buying all materials at the trading post is cost prohibitive.

So now you can’t farm nor can you buy all materials for crafting. It seems like you can’t do anything anymore. Anet seems to want to control everything from how you can play, to what you can say in the chat system, to how many times you can talk on the chat system.

My advice Anet, and please read it carefully, players don’t like it when it feels like you are in prison. You have a great game that you can build upon to make it the best. Don’t mess up the 5 years of work you have put into this game. Word of mouth is a powerful thing.

@Caramel Ham,

I agree with your post so much. Right now trying to do anything in the game feels like a punishment due to the diminishing returns systems. And if I want to try and avoid them I have to spend all my time figuring out when the stupid thing will kick in, rather than just playing the game.

I don’t play games to track a developer’s anti-farming system. I already have to do boring things like that at work. I play games to relax, not to be forced to babysit a broken system that only punishes players for playing the game.

I feel like Arenanet was surprised at how quickly people got things that they thought would be only obtainable in more than a month.
Honestly, those aren’t the average players. Most of those who already are level 80 and play normally barely have the money for exotics yet.
You should have known that some people just want to be faster than anyone else. It doesn’t mean that everyone already has 5 level 80 characters decked out in full exotics and have 1000 gold sitting in their bank.

Arenanet, stop trying to artificially extend the time the hardcores have to spend while punishing the more casual majority of the playerbase.
Stop panicking and calm down. Wait a month until the economy has settled down and then start adjusting it.

I would like to ask ANet why would you put Such ridiculous requirements for some of the items if you don’t wan’t people to farm?
40k+ Karma for one piece of a set.
1800 dungeon tokens for dungeon set NOT including weapons you want AND the gift for legendary weapon of your choice AND lodestones that you need for legendary.
not to mention over 2 mil of karma to get said legendary
I might also talk about about obscure amount of materials you require to level up your crafting profesions.

So ANet why such high requirements if you don’t want us to farm? Humans have hasty nature and if they have time they will try to get the thing as fast as they actually can.

Mode.5629:

40k+ Karma for one piece of a set.
1800 dungeon tokens for dungeon set NOT including weapons you want AND the gift for legendary weapon of your choice AND lodestones that you need for legendary.
not to mention over 2 mil of karma to get said legendary

Seriously, I’m more worried about how a level 60 rare weapon costs 35k karma. It’s not exotic, you’ll stop using it after you get something better the next day AND the skin drops commonly enough that you can just buy one for 2 silver off the TP and transmute it.
The only karma weapons worth buying are the T3 ones because of their unique skin.
Did they even QC their fixes?

And then there are the AC dungeon armors that are level 60 despite it being impossible to still be level 60 after you already got all your tokens unless you start farming as soon as you hit 35.

Awesome, someone started a thread.

ANET, you need to get rid of diminishing returns, it’s wrecking the game for me, I log in do 1 event in cursed shore… just 1…. BAM! DR hits and I start getting no drops.

How am I supposed to craft anything when you nerf the drop of rares, I can’t get any ectos if you do this.

If you don’t change this, remove the requirements of using ecto in every single recipe. Every single one of them.

If people (not botters) spend time to farm mats for crafting, they should be rewarded on a linear scale. Now, with the nerf of drop rates of yellows, and what seems to be the nerf of the salvage rate of ectos from yellows. I will never have enough ectos to craft armor for my characters unless I play hours upon hours which is the farming requirement I thought ANET wanted to avoid?

What you’re saying with diminishing returns is basically: Please buy our new game, however, if you play too much (more than 20-30 mins) we don’t like you so we will make your playing experience as horrible as possible to try to stop you from playing as much.

If your aim is that, congratulations, it works!
If your aim is to stop botters, there should be a captcha pop up in game after you kill x amount of mobs instead of DR.
If your aim is to stop the economy from being flooded with mats from people trying sell things for gold, you should bring back the money cap from guild wars 1.
EG: each character can hold a maximum of 50 gold at a time. Bank can hold a maximum of 100 gold.

People playing normally shouldn’t be running into these limits, period. Anti-farming measures should be transparent to normal gamers.

Gulliger.8963:

People playing normally shouldn’t be running into these limits, period. Anti-farming measures should be transparent to normal gamers.

There you go, thinking like ANET.

Do go on, tell us more how we should play.

Gave.9408:

Gulliger.8963:

People playing normally shouldn’t be running into these limits, period. Anti-farming measures should be transparent to normal gamers.

There you go, thinking like ANET.

Do go on, tell us more how we should play.

Here, here! Now that everyone figured out they are getting shafted on rewards The DE’s are basically empty. The waypoints are blocked. I agree with you, you don’t punish gamers for actually doing the event. That is insane.

here’s what I think with these changes.

If it wasn’t broken, an we all started to fall in love with it from all up until this point or so, WHY now are people feeling like it’s being morphed into a different game in different hands?

Are the same design team still working on it? or did they hand it over to some outsourced team who are now tasked with “raising profitability” and that’s a legit question.

I PAID you for this game, that was my buy in. every time a botter scams an account and you have to retrieve it for them (and your ip authent is great btw) you simple pay the cost of business in terms of upkeep, happy players are players with deep pockets, so why is there so little in the gem shop aesthetics wise, if you want us to buy gems, that’s where you need to add things and before you do that the game needs to be solid and balanced

right now it’s NOT, and your limiting us on how we play or how long we spend at a task, is only serving to destroy the feeling of the game and the trust that you’ll actually make good on your word and create a fun mmo which doesn’t take a second life worth of time to grind to decent gear levels,

my participation in a multiplayer game, is my own business and my characters should and will reflect that, as well as reflect it when i buy cash items. that was what you were told would work, that’s what’s been PROVEN to work by games like league of legends etc, and yet this REEKS of the beginning of something you were warned wouldn’t work.

pay2not be forced to farm for horrible sweatshop hours, for GARBAGE gear you’re going to quickly outlevel.

you’ve been warned, and the community is turning rapidly. clearly something has been lost in translation lol

Gulliger.8963:

People playing normally shouldn’t be running into these limits, period. Anti-farming measures should be transparent to normal gamers.

Hey man, (or woman)

Seriously I do 1 event, only 1, and I run into diminishing returns. This is after I take a multi hour break like anywhere between 5 hours → over a day.

Doing 1 event and running into diminishing returns is absolutely ridiculous.

Any normal (read casual) player has enough game time to do 1 normal event.

Doesn’t help that almost every mob from Straights of devastation → malchor’s leap → cursed shore is risen.

ANET needs to announce how long it takes for the DR thing to reset, so I can relog then and actually play the game to get the materials I need for armor crafting.

Or best option is to get rid of DR altogether.

Galactic.6453:

Mode.5629:

40k+ Karma for one piece of a set.
1800 dungeon tokens for dungeon set NOT including weapons you want AND the gift for legendary weapon of your choice AND lodestones that you need for legendary.
not to mention over 2 mil of karma to get said legendary

Seriously, I’m more worried about how a level 60 rare weapon costs 35k karma. It’s not exotic, you’ll stop using it after you get something better the next day AND the skin drops commonly enough that you can just buy one for 2 silver off the TP and transmute it.
The only karma weapons worth buying are the T3 ones because of their unique skin.
Did they even QC their fixes?

And then there are the AC dungeon armors that are level 60 despite it being impossible to still be level 60 after you already got all your tokens unless you start farming as soon as you hit 35.

Its insane to inveset in expensive armor or weapons until your max. You outgrow them too fast. I really don’t even see how crafting is worth it at this point.

maniacshoter.7829:

i am really afraid of the future of this game , it’s getting harder and harder for casuals to obtain equipment while hardcore gamers that rushed the content already have gold and gear ,

why do i have to be punished for playing Anet? why? having a crazy amount of tokens in order to buy the sets and the low rewards system isn’t enough? why do you keep punishing the players Anet?

This post kinda stood out in the mass circlejerk I see going on around here, but I just wanna chip in my two cents and point out that, via crafting, I’m getting gear just fine with practically no budget that wipes the floor with whatever I find for my next ten levels. I don’t see any kind of “punishment for playing.” Yes, they do need to keep an eye on anti-farming code in level 80 areas and dungeons and fine-tune it, but I don’t see why everyone has to feed into this circlejerk of “INJUSTICE!!” “YES IT IS INJUSTICE!!1!” “OMG ANET IS WORST GAME COMPANY BECAUSE I CAN’T SPEND HOURS AT A TIME SHOOTAN ONE SET OF BAD GUYS”

As far as exotics and legendaries having massive costs, I don’t get the outrage. Personally, when I complete a set of exotics after I’ve been playing for months, I’m gonna be saying “Dang right this is a full set of Legendary Exotic Awesome McPants! I worked hard for this!” And until that point? I can EASILY get stat-equivalent gear through crafting and, y’know, playing the rest of the game. You don’t need legendary stuff to enjoy the game, and if you have to farm, set yourself up on a farming rotation and work toward an optimized route.

As far as telling you how to play, ANet does the “go farm somewhere else ya dummy” system because they are proud of the game they made and they want you to explore more of it rather than standing around shooting orr all day. Plus, if you want to complain about “being told how to play,” every game has rules and ways they’re meant to be played. I don’t criticize WoW for not letting me club people with a hammer as a mage.

GideonWilhelm.5709:

maniacshoter.7829:

i am really afraid of the future of this game , it’s getting harder and harder for casuals to obtain equipment while hardcore gamers that rushed the content already have gold and gear ,

why do i have to be punished for playing Anet? why? having a crazy amount of tokens in order to buy the sets and the low rewards system isn’t enough? why do you keep punishing the players Anet?

This post kinda stood out in the mass circlejerk I see going on around here, but I just wanna chip in my two cents and point out that, via crafting, I’m getting gear just fine with practically no budget that wipes the floor with whatever I find for my next ten levels. I don’t see any kind of “punishment for playing.” Yes, they do need to keep an eye on anti-farming code in level 80 areas and dungeons and fine-tune it, but I don’t see why everyone has to feed into this circlejerk of “INJUSTICE!!” “YES IT IS INJUSTICE!!1!” “OMG ANET IS WORST GAME COMPANY BECAUSE I CAN’T SPEND HOURS AT A TIME SHOOTAN ONE SET OF BAD GUYS”

As far as exotics and legendaries having massive costs, I don’t get the outrage. Personally, when I complete a set of exotics after I’ve been playing for months, I’m gonna be saying kittenright this is a full set of Legendary Exotic Awesome McPants! I worked hard for this!" And until that point? I can EASILY get stat-equivalent gear through crafting and, y’know, playing the rest of the game. You don’t need legendary stuff to enjoy the game, and if you have to farm, set yourself up on a farming rotation and work toward an optimized route.

As far as telling you how to play, ANet does the “go farm somewhere else ya dummy” system because they are proud of the game they made and they want you to explore more of it rather than standing around shooting orr all day.

is it locked to an area that we get DR from or one type of enemy. bearing in mind that fine craftables will of course be something you’ll work towards a specific amount of and may or may not bite the bullet and decide you’ll grind out. Thus you’ll gravitate towards that specific type of enemy for that specific drop and thus trigger the DR. now I a player who doesn’t want to farm but bites the bullet to get it outta the way, have to pace myself because of a mechanic to stop bots? go farm something else til the DR is over? do some dynamic…oh no they get DR too…. or some dungeons…oh wait, they just nerfed the reward and buffered their difficulty to cheese tastic levels….

it’s not catch 22, it’s catch 22 everywhere you turn… these changes were and ARE anti fun.

I’m frustrated because I don’t have my cultural armor yet.

So they diminish the rewards on everything, but leave the costs the same? Makes no sense. They’re creating more of a grind than they’re trying to stop, ’cuz now I have to do the same thing longer to get what I want.

Hellkaiser.6025:

GideonWilhelm.5709:

maniacshoter.7829:

i am really afraid of the future of this game , it’s getting harder and harder for casuals to obtain equipment while hardcore gamers that rushed the content already have gold and gear ,

why do i have to be punished for playing Anet? why? having a crazy amount of tokens in order to buy the sets and the low rewards system isn’t enough? why do you keep punishing the players Anet?

This post kinda stood out in the mass circlejerk I see going on around here, but I just wanna chip in my two cents and point out that, via crafting, I’m getting gear just fine with practically no budget that wipes the floor with whatever I find for my next ten levels. I don’t see any kind of “punishment for playing.” Yes, they do need to keep an eye on anti-farming code in level 80 areas and dungeons and fine-tune it, but I don’t see why everyone has to feed into this circlejerk of “INJUSTICE!!” “YES IT IS INJUSTICE!!1!” “OMG ANET IS WORST GAME COMPANY BECAUSE I CAN’T SPEND HOURS AT A TIME SHOOTAN ONE SET OF BAD GUYS”

As far as exotics and legendaries having massive costs, I don’t get the outrage. Personally, when I complete a set of exotics after I’ve been playing for months, I’m gonna be saying kittenright this is a full set of Legendary Exotic Awesome McPants! I worked hard for this!" And until that point? I can EASILY get stat-equivalent gear through crafting and, y’know, playing the rest of the game. You don’t need legendary stuff to enjoy the game, and if you have to farm, set yourself up on a farming rotation and work toward an optimized route.

As far as telling you how to play, ANet does the “go farm somewhere else ya dummy” system because they are proud of the game they made and they want you to explore more of it rather than standing around shooting orr all day.

is it locked to an area that we get DR from or one type of enemy. bearing in mind that fine craftables will of course be something you’ll work towards a specific amount of and may or may not bite the bullet and decide you’ll grind out. Thus you’ll gravitate towards that specific type of enemy for that specific drop and thus trigger the DR. now I a player who doesn’t want to farm but bites the bullet to get it outta the way, have to pace myself because of a mechanic to stop bots? go farm something else til the DR is over? do some dynamic…oh no they get DR too…. or some dungeons…oh wait, they just nerfed the reward and buffered their difficulty to cheese tastic levels….

it’s not catch 22, it’s catch 22 everywhere you turn… these changes were and ARE anti fun.

ArenaNet wants you to play the whole game. They want to do everything they can to counter farms and grinds. And they do this because they want you to enjoy the whole game and work for your high-end rewards.

I thoroughly enjoy Guild Wars 2 exactly the way its drop system is now, with how I play. If all you’re going to do is sit here and circlejerk about the fact that you can’t grind and you actually have to try, then this may not be the game for you, and there are still hundreds of thousands of us who won’t be particularly sad to see you go.

GideonWilhelm.5709:

ArenaNet wants you to play the whole game. They want to do everything they can to counter farms and grinds. And they do this because they want you to enjoy the whole game and work for your high-end rewards.

I thoroughly enjoy Guild Wars 2 exactly the way its drop system is now, with how I play. If all you’re going to do is sit here and circlejerk about the fact that you can’t grind and you actually have to try, then this may not be the game for you, and there are still hundreds of thousands of us who won’t be particularly sad to see you go.

You CAN’T work for any high-end rewards because there’s no place left to get them from! If you want a legendary, you need 800,000 karma. The dynamic event cap puts a stop to that. If you want fancy gear skins you need money for the mystic forge. The loot cap puts a stop to that. If you want dungeon sets you have to run dungeons. The dungeon diminishing returns means you need money to run then which you can’t get because of the loot cap.

Please do tell me what I should do. I’ve got 100% world completion. I’ve got 500 Badges of Honor from WvW. I’ve got 500 Ascalonian Tears from AC explorable. I’ve done every jumping puzzle. However, I still need 800,000 karma for a legendary weapon. Where do you suppose I should go to get that huh? “Do the whole game”? I’ve DONE the whole game and I want to do Dynamic events.

Get your facts straight before you lecture people.

GideonWilhelm.5709:

Hellkaiser.6025:

GideonWilhelm.5709:

maniacshoter.7829:

i am really afraid of the future of this game , it’s getting harder and harder for casuals to obtain equipment while hardcore gamers that rushed the content already have gold and gear ,

why do i have to be punished for playing Anet? why? having a crazy amount of tokens in order to buy the sets and the low rewards system isn’t enough? why do you keep punishing the players Anet?

This post kinda stood out in the mass circlejerk I see going on around here, but I just wanna chip in my two cents and point out that, via crafting, I’m getting gear just fine with practically no budget that wipes the floor with whatever I find for my next ten levels. I don’t see any kind of “punishment for playing.” Yes, they do need to keep an eye on anti-farming code in level 80 areas and dungeons and fine-tune it, but I don’t see why everyone has to feed into this circlejerk of “INJUSTICE!!” “YES IT IS INJUSTICE!!1!” “OMG ANET IS WORST GAME COMPANY BECAUSE I CAN’T SPEND HOURS AT A TIME SHOOTAN ONE SET OF BAD GUYS”

As far as exotics and legendaries having massive costs, I don’t get the outrage. Personally, when I complete a set of exotics after I’ve been playing for months, I’m gonna be saying kittenright this is a full set of Legendary Exotic Awesome McPants! I worked hard for this!" And until that point? I can EASILY get stat-equivalent gear through crafting and, y’know, playing the rest of the game. You don’t need legendary stuff to enjoy the game, and if you have to farm, set yourself up on a farming rotation and work toward an optimized route.

As far as telling you how to play, ANet does the “go farm somewhere else ya dummy” system because they are proud of the game they made and they want you to explore more of it rather than standing around shooting orr all day.

is it locked to an area that we get DR from or one type of enemy. bearing in mind that fine craftables will of course be something you’ll work towards a specific amount of and may or may not bite the bullet and decide you’ll grind out. Thus you’ll gravitate towards that specific type of enemy for that specific drop and thus trigger the DR. now I a player who doesn’t want to farm but bites the bullet to get it outta the way, have to pace myself because of a mechanic to stop bots? go farm something else til the DR is over? do some dynamic…oh no they get DR too…. or some dungeons…oh wait, they just nerfed the reward and buffered their difficulty to cheese tastic levels….

it’s not catch 22, it’s catch 22 everywhere you turn… these changes were and ARE anti fun.

ArenaNet wants you to play the whole game. They want to do everything they can to counter farms and grinds. And they do this because they want you to enjoy the whole game and work for your high-end rewards.

I thoroughly enjoy Guild Wars 2 exactly the way its drop system is now, with how I play. If all you’re going to do is sit here and circlejerk about the fact that you can’t grind and you actually have to try, then this may not be the game for you, and there are still hundreds of thousands of us who won’t be particularly sad to see you go.

Of course they want you to play the whole game. But, as the person who spent $60 on the game, it’s my decision as to what parts I choose to play.

The moment Anet decides that they’re going to tell their playerbase how to play the game, they’re going to look at a series of ghost servers.

Strill.2591:

GideonWilhelm.5709:

ArenaNet wants you to play the whole game. They want to do everything they can to counter farms and grinds. And they do this because they want you to enjoy the whole game and work for your high-end rewards.

I thoroughly enjoy Guild Wars 2 exactly the way its drop system is now, with how I play. If all you’re going to do is sit here and circlejerk about the fact that you can’t grind and you actually have to try, then this may not be the game for you, and there are still hundreds of thousands of us who won’t be particularly sad to see you go.

You CAN’T work for any high-end rewards because there’s no place left to get them from! If you want a legendary, you need 800,000 karma. The dynamic event cap puts a stop to that. If you want fancy gear skins you need money for the mystic forge. The loot cap puts a stop to that. If you want dungeon sets you have to run dungeons. The dungeon diminishing returns means you need money to run then which you can’t get because of the loot cap.

Please do tell me what I should do. I’ve got 100% world completion. I’ve got 500 Badges of Honor from WvW. I’ve got 500 Ascalonian Tears from AC explorable. I’ve done every jumping puzzle. However, I still need 800,000 karma for a legendary weapon. Where do you suppose I should go to get that huh? “Do the whole game”? I’ve DONE the whole game and I want to do Dynamic events.

Get your facts straight before you lecture people.

Wow, kudos to you. If you feel that way imagine how more casual players feel. I’m working on my exotic armor. its only 252,000 karma in comparrison. Still its hard enough to do. If you can’t farm the Karma then what is the point? Like you said everything cost gold in this game, but they killed the gold rewards too. This is simpkly insane.

As for that other poster, there’s a lot of fanbois on here. Pay no mind. This is a legitimate issue that Anet needs to address. 99% of postrs agree on this one.

well aint you just a loverly kitten gideon

They don’t want me to focus on something like farming for crafting gear I could possibly use anymore, so I should what, run around doing events I don’t feel like doing…playing the way I want to play right there…

or not…

If i grind something else I’m still grinding something or farming or whatever you want to call it… and even when I do those events AS STATED before you so rudely responded with your “gtfo” response, a different set of DR kicks in and I’m again made to move about. is that a bad thing? debatable, but it’s certainly not in line with “play the way you want” in fact everything aforementioned is going against that statement.

If I want to run dungeons for high end gear, I have to seemingly HAVE high end gear, and be in a group that brings the gear and the combinations, not just the skilled players. a bit of luck helps….but luck is not =/= to skill, EVER.PERIOD

If you’re going to “circlejerk” yourself by claiming a game that wants us to grind for anything beyond yellows, whilst we were told grinding is not a goal of theirs, then you just miss the point and you are being a fanboy. That isn’t an insult, I actually even meant kitten at the start of this post, I wasn’t censored. But could you AT LEAST try and make some sense and or come up with better points other than to make me assume you don’t care cos it doesn’t matter to your, or you’re a gaming masochist?

just to add, as mean as it sounds, I don’t see them leaping in to remove gear from players that have gained massive ground in terms of gearing. Not that I’d WANT that, but if we’re going to mother knows best the players, one would assume punishing the majority and ignoring those that have erred before and rushed and spammed makes it even more head scratchingly absurd

My comments to the quoted text are in double parenthases.

Strill.2591:

GideonWilhelm.5709:

ArenaNet wants you to play the whole game. They want to do everything they can to counter farms and grinds. And they do this because they want you to enjoy the whole game and work for your high-end rewards.

I thoroughly enjoy Guild Wars 2 exactly the way its drop system is now, with how I play. If all you’re going to do is sit here and circlejerk about the fact that you can’t grind and you actually have to try, then this may not be the game for you, and there are still hundreds of thousands of us who won’t be particularly sad to see you go.

You CAN’T work for any high-end rewards because there’s no place left to get them from! If you want a legendary, you need 800,000 karma. The dynamic event cap puts a stop to that. ((Go find other dinamic events to do. There’s lots of them all around the world.)) If you want fancy gear skins you need money for the mystic forge. The loot cap puts a stop to that. ((Just sell loot, scrap whites, gather mats, craft stuff, sell crafted stuff you aren’t gonna use. Buddy of mine made 6 gold in a weekend just from spending a couple hours on Huntsman.)) If you want dungeon sets you have to run dungeons. The dungeon diminishing returns means you need money to run then which you can’t get because of the loot cap. ((I do agree that they need to adjust dungeon run loot caps. But then again, take different paths every time and work out a dungeon rotation to max your rewards.))

Please do tell me what I should do. I’ve got 100% world completion. I’ve got 500 Badges of Honor from WvW. ((Keep that one up, WvW is an excellent way to stockpile karma)) I’ve got 500 Ascalonian Tears from AC explorable. ((refer to dungeon rotation comment.)) I’ve done every jumping puzzle. ((If I’m not mistaken, you can do them again. If I am mistaken, go do dynamic events around the world.)) However, I still need 800,000 karma for a legendary weapon. Where do you suppose I should go to get that huh? ((there are tons of dynamic events all over the entire game world. And WvW karma and drop rewards.)) “Do the whole game”? I’ve DONE the whole game and I want to do Dynamic events. ((there’s a bunch of ’em, sport))

Get your facts straight before you lecture people. ((I like pancakes))

@above: oh dear I’m at a loss for words, and not because of your epic debating skills, just that you ignored the one thing that mattered to him. that he WANTED to do dynamic events, and not get forced into playing EVERY aspect of a game that he has bought :S

Hellkaiser.6025:

@above: oh dear I’m at a loss for words, and not because of your epic debating skills, just that you ignored the one thing that mattered to him. that he WANTED to do dynamic events, and not get forced into playing EVERY aspect of a game that he has bought :S

I’d like to give you some homework.

Your assignment is to count the number of times I reminded Strill that there are tons of dynamic events all over the entire game world.

((hint: I said it 4 times))

So there are tons of DEs to do. Everywhere.

Oh I wasn’t complaining about that, I simply pointed out how you seem to constantly keep coming back to “there’s a ton of things to do in the world” yet he only required you to tell him to do different events in different area’s amirite?

you instead tried to systematically pick his post apart for no reason :S your attitude in itself is irritating there’s no need to be such a kitten about the big wide world of diminishing returns wars 2

:S sadly as awesome as it is for him to grind karma like that he’s lucky, that they haven’t already leapt in and made all DE’s share the same DR counter, which they still could (who know’s)

Ultimately however, maybe JUST maybe, he doesn’t want to run all over the world doing dynamic events to essentially grind (what else can you call that) for awesome gear. in being forced to run around like a headless chicken, he may end up feeling that it’s just another aspect that’s being porked by DR further.

That may or may not be the case, but you certainly assumed he was happy having to run around to different area’s to counter an anti-fun anti-bot mechanic.

Even if we somewhat justify the reasoning, it’s still NOT play the way you want to play. it’s play the way you want to play, unless we don’t want you to play that way, because we said so. Though not to that extreme, also your homework for the night is to repeat after me

“it doesn’t matter if I’m in any ways right, if I’m a bit of a prat about it. People will just ignore what I have to say which defeats any sense of pride in being right, in any thematic sense”

Hellkaiser.6025:

Ultimately however, maybe JUST maybe, he doesn’t want to run all over the world doing dynamic events to essentially grind (what else can you call that) for awesome gear.

Then if he’s not willing to put in effort to play the game the way its creators intended and intricately designed it to be played, maybe it’s just not his kind of game. By the sound of things, he’s already 100%ed it, which is all you can do in most games you only paid $60 for. If he, or anyone else, is unwilling to use the entire game world to its potential, especially after already having seen everything, then maybe it’s time to move on.

Strill.2591:

GideonWilhelm.5709:

ArenaNet wants you to play the whole game. They want to do everything they can to counter farms and grinds. And they do this because they want you to enjoy the whole game and work for your high-end rewards.

I thoroughly enjoy Guild Wars 2 exactly the way its drop system is now, with how I play. If all you’re going to do is sit here and circlejerk about the fact that you can’t grind and you actually have to try, then this may not be the game for you, and there are still hundreds of thousands of us who won’t be particularly sad to see you go.

You CAN’T work for any high-end rewards because there’s no place left to get them from! If you want a legendary, you need 800,000 karma. The dynamic event cap puts a stop to that. If you want fancy gear skins you need money for the mystic forge. The loot cap puts a stop to that. If you want dungeon sets you have to run dungeons. The dungeon diminishing returns means you need money to run then which you can’t get because of the loot cap.

Please do tell me what I should do. I’ve got 100% world completion. I’ve got 500 Badges of Honor from WvW. I’ve got 500 Ascalonian Tears from AC explorable. I’ve done every jumping puzzle. However, I still need 800,000 karma for a legendary weapon. Where do you suppose I should go to get that huh? “Do the whole game”? I’ve DONE the whole game and I want to do Dynamic events.

Get your facts straight before you lecture people.

This. So much this. These DR systems are so anti-player and anti-fun that it’s absurd. It literally sucks out any reward from every single activity in the game, making it a chore to even play.

They need to be removed immediately before people start flat out leaving the game. Heck, I imagine many already have, because those of us posting here are a minority that care enough about the game to complain to get it fixed. People that care less about the game won’t even bother to come here to voice their displeasure, they’ll simply play something else.

But I want to play Guild Wars 2, not something else. The DR systems right now are making it completely unfun to play and I want to see them gone because it was objectively better in every way before they introduced them.

I’m tired of getting punished for wanting to play the dang game, it’s ridiculous and I can’t even believe people are arguing with us about this, as it affects them just as much. None of these changes benefit anyone but botters because they are the ones that have already circumvented them by cheating (teleporting/speedhacking).

Then if he’s not willing to put in effort to play the game the way its creators intended and intricately designed it to be played, maybe it’s just not his kind of game.

It’s either to play how they want us to play or go somewhere else? How can this be a good thing?

What am I exactly expected to do? Where’s the rulebook on how to play in order to have “fun”? Where’s the sense of freedom to play how I want to play? Are gold sinks, diminishing returns, and end game grind rewarding? Really?

How can an open world seem so closed down?

GideonWilhelm.5709:

Hellkaiser.6025:

Ultimately however, maybe JUST maybe, he doesn’t want to run all over the world doing dynamic events to essentially grind (what else can you call that) for awesome gear.

Then if he’s not willing to put in effort to play the game the way its creators intended and intricately designed it to be played, maybe it’s just not his kind of game. By the sound of things, he’s already 100%ed it, which is all you can do in most games you only paid $60 for. If he, or anyone else, is unwilling to use the entire game world to its potential, especially after already having seen everything, then maybe it’s time to move on.

That’s a great view to take, the opposite of the problem of self entitled to the point where we literally ignore the original promises in their manifesto and interviews. What did we expect? them to actually make a game as they said they would? haha what nonsense you scallywags…

if they reduced the grind aspect of the gear, I wouldn’t need to farm, if i need to farm then diminishing my returns for playing it the way i want to and getting it outta the way directly by playing, is not me playing how i want it’s telling me to do it in a roundabout way that seems pointless to me

Amon.5042:

Then if he’s not willing to put in effort to play the game the way its creators intended and intricately designed it to be played, maybe it’s just not his kind of game.

It’s either to play how they want us to play or go somewhere else? How can this be a good thing?

pretty much. That’s how a lot of MMO’s do their thing. And it’s a good thing for the people that play it the way it was meant to be played, so that the experience is preserved.

What am I exactly expected to do? Where’s the rulebook on how to play in order to have “fun”? Where’s the sense of freedom to play how I want to play? Are gold sinks, diminishing returns, and end game grind rewarding? Really?

If you’re not doing the exact same few events over and over and over again, there is no diminishing returns. I’m not sure what part of this is so hard to understand. You can get huge rewards quickly just by playing through the huge world full of events which were pretty much created to be played. All of them were created to be played. If ANet just lets youkittenaround and farm one thing, then that’s development dollars wasted as far as they’re concerned. Why should we have even bothered making all this stuff if nobody’s gonna play it, eh? We might as well have made another linear grindfest.

Hellkaiser.6025:

That’s a great view to take, the opposite of the problem of self entitled to the point where we literally ignore the original promises in their manifesto and interviews. What did we expect? them to actually make a game as they said they would? haha what nonsense you scallywags…

You’re obviously taking “play how you want” way too literally if you think they meant “if you wanna stand in one spot and shoot one bad guy forever, go right ahead, we’ll make sure to reward you lavishly!”

I had high hopes for Anet, but after the last few patches and “fixes” they’ve proven to be just as incompetent as Blizz with D3. How did they not see this coming and why havn’t they said akittenword on it? Players ahve been asking for an answer for a while now and they remain silent? So far all I can see is they have my money and are content to just sit there and do nothing but force us to spend more time and money on their gems to get gold or boosts to up the pitifully pathetic drop rate.

GideonWilhelm.5709:

Get your facts straight.

The dynamic event cap affects ALL events in EVERY zone and has NOTHING to do with repeating the same event. It’s completely possible to hit the cap without repeating a single event.

Furthermore, you can’t gather any loot to salvage if you’re loot capped.

WvW is a terrible way to get karma if you’re not capping everything on the map. Farming the same event over and over again gives far better karma rates and is also a safe way to AVOID the DE cap. (Yes, you are SAFE from the cap if you spam the same event over and over.)

I used to sit around farming the same events over and over. I NEVER hit the cap. Once I went out into the world and found a part of the map with tons of events, I hit the cap in 25 mins. Exploration is DISCOURAGED with this system. I’m willing to do events anywhere, but as it is, the only thing I can do safely is sit in the same spot farming the same event over and over.

Almost everything you’ve said has been factually incorrect. Try reading before you respond or assume.

GideonWilhelm.5709:

Amon.5042:

Then if he’s not willing to put in effort to play the game the way its creators intended and intricately designed it to be played, maybe it’s just not his kind of game.

It’s either to play how they want us to play or go somewhere else? How can this be a good thing?

pretty much. That’s how a lot of MMO’s do their thing. And it’s a good thing for the people that play it the way it was meant to be played, so that the experience is preserved.

I’m not a player who has amassed a lot of gold exploiting game mechanics. I don’t obsessively farms dungeons – I have no patience nor time for that. I like to take time doing stuff but I also like to get rewarded when I’m doing so and for the time I have available.

- After researching Magical Find, I decided to invest in that in order to try and farm some yellow gear. I spent most of the few gold I had accumulated in the process. It was nice to have in fact gotten some rare gear on occasion, which I then salvaged to get ectos. But after the absolute nerfing patch, I don’t seem to get even greens anymore. It seems that my investment was nullified.

- I finished my personal story and I got some very underwhelming rewards. All that effort for little return.

- I finished a lower level dynamic event and got some xp, some karma, and 1 copper as a reward.

- I finished exploring an area and got 1 copper as a reward.

- I try to do a dungeon after the patch and see that I spend more money repairing my gear than what the reward gets me.

- A group of monsters kills me and the waypoint that’s about 3 meters from me needs 1+ silver to be used.

- I try to get to a vista, fall and die, and need to use the nearest waypoint about 5 to 6 times, each time being 1+ silver.

- A friend asks me to help in a far away waypoint which takes about 6 silver for a round trip.

- I have a stockpile of black lion chests which would need me to spend 80USD to get keys in order to open them. I used to get keys as loot on occasion, but not anymore.

I’m getting a pattern of too little reward for the effort and I’m far from being a super savvy MMO gamer. I had a great deal of fun with GW1 but suddenly, and unfortunately, the feeling started to be quite different in this new project.

I’m not interested in playing GW2 as it is at this moment.

I can’t say i noticed the DR conciously, but then i haven’t realy paid attention to it yet. It may also be due to my highest character being around lvl44 …

But i must say that reading this thread sort of horrifies me, i am a real casual player and from what i read some of these things in this game will be something that will take years to accomplish for me. esp. if during the couple of hours i do play, my bounty is reduced after the first 30min…

There is though the whole catch 22 in herent to games with loot in regards to farming. If you don’t add rewards that take a big effort, the game won’t have this high reward in the game. If then you make them easy to farm/drop, you might as well not have made them this high cost. So if you make them high cost and low drops, you automatically introduce this big grind… There is no way to add high cost rewards in any game without adding a huge amount of grind … period … it should be edged into the 10 commandments of game development.

> and NO if you make something realy difficult with a real high reward, so you have a 2% of succeeding, then you have to grind this one thing to get that success. Which is just another way of grind.

SO, now that we all know this is impossible we can all send in an email to Xtra Credit (or w/e that nice gaming development flash vids series is called), to do an episode on the IMPOSSIBLE things in gaming development, starting with how it is IMPOSSIBLE to add High Cost Reward without adding GRIND…

Thus GW2 has grind and i think they should be open about it and honest that somewhere along the lines it turned out to be impossible NOT to have grind…

So now it’s all about what type of grind we want:
- do we want all the rewards/drops scaled down,
- do we want a system that punishes what you choose to do by some DR system (diminishing rewards).
OR
- do we just except that some people farm the heck out of games and get filthy rich in some pseudo currancy, driving up Gemprices (most likely), which then becomes great for those that have some spare money (as they get good gold for their cash)

Well from all those options a DR system is BY FAR the worst! If i like to do DE’s why should i not get the reward that is linked to that DE just because i already done 3 or 4 in the last 30min. So I would say that if anything, the rewards need to be scaled better after a certain level, or just be scaled down a bit after becomming lvl80 (assuming that the whole level curve has already been largely plotted for the general group of gamers). And when i read that the OP kills a 100 lvl80 foes in about 10min, the difficulty of these high level mobs should go up a notch.

So what this does is that the OP can kill less foes due to difficulty in the time frame, and from that he gets a tad little rewards. But if he wants to fight in Orr 24/7 slaying undead, well then let him! For all we know the undead killed his whole family and then forced him to ‘kill’ them to save his own life. Well with a ‘story’ like that i would likely be killing undead in Orr 25/8 if i could!

And when this is done i think Anet can just be fair about it, they made high level area’s to easy and the rewards to high, hardcore rush players are gaining wealth to quickly by ‘farming’ high level areas. And these Hardcore rush players will likely be the first to admit that yes, that is why they rushed in the first place and were pleasantly surprised the farming was so easy… Tobad the fun is over, let’s make the game as it is supposed to be… We could all except that, i think?

As far as botting goes, well i think we do need to adress this, but in a whole different way. This DR system won’t scare of any botter, it will just mean they have to bot a bit more! It’s a bot, they have all the time and no feelings! we on the other hand !!

So Anet dont want us to farm or grind in the game, but made a game with a pretty sick gear/crafting grind. Thats Anet logic for you, lmao.

Im not even a casual player, and i find it hard to get exotic gear in this game. Leveling was a breeze in this game, albeit it took me 120hours (yes, i know im very slow). It didnt feel like a grind at all and i was having fun.

Being fairly rewarded for adventuring, exploring, doing dungeons and killing monsters is older than Computer RPGs. Ever since Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson conjured up the idea of dungeon delving adventurers have been rewarded for their efforts. It is the staple requirement for all RPGs not just Online Computer RPGs.

Things that bother me about GW2 currently is the anti-farm code as it severely reduces a crafters ability to gather their own materials. Lazy crafters will buy from the trader, but active crafters that enjoy gathering are denied this right.

Boss drops in dungeons: This is a second dislike of GW2s current system. I absolutely despise saving up tokens. Dungeon bosses should have a loot table and a generous coin drop, not because I want the game to be a loot treadmill or because I want to farm gold, but because I’m playing an adventurer in search of treasure, not a person gathering tokens to purchase items from a vendor. It completely destroys the sense of adventure. I seriously have no incentive to do dungeons just for repair bills and salvage trash.

GideonWilhelm.5709:

If you’re not doing the exact same few events over and over and over again, there is no diminishing returns. I’m not sure what part of this is so hard to understand. You can get huge rewards quickly just by playing through the *huge world full of events which were pretty much created to be played.

You’re simply wrong, this isn’t how it’s currently working, even if that’s how it was intended to work. You’re just ignoring what people are saying here. We’re doing the events, or we want to, but we’re getting cruddy rewards for it because of this DR system, same with loot.

No one on this thread that has mentioned being impacted by the event DR is doing the same event over and over (even though that in fact does NOT reduce your rewards, contrary to what you keep saying over and over).

We are trying to play the game by doing different stuff, varying it up, but these DR systems are broken abominations of software that need to be removed immediately before people less patient than us in this thread start leaving the game because of it.

I’d love to hear from an actual ANet rep about all of this. No game company could EVER be so stupid as to shut down rewards for ALL EVENTS in the ENTIRE game world. Everything I’ve heard says that diminishing returns happen ONLY when you are farming the same event over and over. If you say it diminishes zone to zone, event to event, then prove it with video evidence. If you can’t do that, then stop complaining and play the game as it was meant to be played. And if you can’t do that, find another game to play.

GideonWilhelm.5709:

I’d love to hear from an actual ANet rep about all of this. No game company could EVER be so stupid as to shut down rewards for ALL EVENTS in the ENTIRE game world. Everything I’ve heard says that diminishing returns happen ONLY when you are farming the same event over and over. If you say it diminishes zone to zone, event to event, then prove it with video evidence. If you can’t do that, then stop complaining and play the game as it was meant to be played. And if you can’t do that, find another game to play.

I don’t have any video software, but I could take a few screenshots right now of me getting 19 karma from events in any place you like. Would that be enough?

I believe I’m running into this system just through normal gameplay and, if it exists and is implemented the way it seems to be, I just don’t understand it. It’s a great idea to make a game without the grind of a traditional MMO. That was one of the things that got me to try GW2. Except I’m not even at max level and this game is full of grinding. I finish a zone and I’m literally 5 levels below the next one so I have to grind events over and over. Or I have to go grind out crafting materials. Once I’m done leveling, what activities are going to generate any income for the repair and travel gold sinks? More farming, I guess. There won’t be daily quests or whatever, I’ll just have to run circuit of events.

It’s great that there is something going on behind the scenes to catch botters, but this anti-farming system in a game which requires farming is just punishing players. I’ve seen the same bots automating the same events over several days, despite me reporting them. They are probably still doing it now if I go back and look for them. Since people don’t actively play them it doesn’t matter that they have been doing the same event for 24 hours straight. The system isn’t getting rid of the bots or the grind, it is just pausing the bots briefly while punishing real players for playing the game the way it was designed – grind out gold/mats/karma.

GideonWilhelm.5709:

Then if he’s not willing to put in effort to play the game the way its creators intended and intricately designed it to be played, maybe it’s just not his kind of game. By the sound of things, he’s already 100%ed it, which is all you can do in most games you only paid $60 for. If he, or anyone else, is unwilling to use the entire game world to its potential, especially after already having seen everything, then maybe it’s time to move on.

What the flying kitten is it to you how someone else wants to play the game?

GideonWilhelm.5709:

Hellkaiser.6025:

GideonWilhelm.5709:

maniacshoter.7829:

i am really afraid of the future of this game , it’s getting harder and harder for casuals to obtain equipment while hardcore gamers that rushed the content already have gold and gear ,

why do i have to be punished for playing Anet? why? having a crazy amount of tokens in order to buy the sets and the low rewards system isn’t enough? why do you keep punishing the players Anet?

This post kinda stood out in the mass circlejerk I see going on around here, but I just wanna chip in my two cents and point out that, via crafting, I’m getting gear just fine with practically no budget that wipes the floor with whatever I find for my next ten levels. I don’t see any kind of “punishment for playing.” Yes, they do need to keep an eye on anti-farming code in level 80 areas and dungeons and fine-tune it, but I don’t see why everyone has to feed into this circlejerk of “INJUSTICE!!” “YES IT IS INJUSTICE!!1!” “OMG ANET IS WORST GAME COMPANY BECAUSE I CAN’T SPEND HOURS AT A TIME SHOOTAN ONE SET OF BAD GUYS”

As far as exotics and legendaries having massive costs, I don’t get the outrage. Personally, when I complete a set of exotics after I’ve been playing for months, I’m gonna be saying kittenright this is a full set of Legendary Exotic Awesome McPants! I worked hard for this!" And until that point? I can EASILY get stat-equivalent gear through crafting and, y’know, playing the rest of the game. You don’t need legendary stuff to enjoy the game, and if you have to farm, set yourself up on a farming rotation and work toward an optimized route.

As far as telling you how to play, ANet does the “go farm somewhere else ya dummy” system because they are proud of the game they made and they want you to explore more of it rather than standing around shooting orr all day.

is it locked to an area that we get DR from or one type of enemy. bearing in mind that fine craftables will of course be something you’ll work towards a specific amount of and may or may not bite the bullet and decide you’ll grind out. Thus you’ll gravitate towards that specific type of enemy for that specific drop and thus trigger the DR. now I a player who doesn’t want to farm but bites the bullet to get it outta the way, have to pace myself because of a mechanic to stop bots? go farm something else til the DR is over? do some dynamic…oh no they get DR too…. or some dungeons…oh wait, they just nerfed the reward and buffered their difficulty to cheese tastic levels….

it’s not catch 22, it’s catch 22 everywhere you turn… these changes were and ARE anti fun.

ArenaNet wants you to play the whole game. They want to do everything they can to counter farms and grinds. And they do this because they want you to enjoy the whole game and work for your high-end rewards.

I thoroughly enjoy Guild Wars 2 exactly the way its drop system is now, with how I play. If all you’re going to do is sit here and circlejerk about the fact that you can’t grind and you actually have to try, then this may not be the game for you, and there are still hundreds of thousands of us who won’t be particularly sad to see you go.

I totally agree with you. In just about every mmo I’ve ever played someone starts one of these lame threads. The game is great the way it is. I hope Arenanet doesn’t start making changes to the game just to make a certain few happy.

wmtyrance.3571:

I hope Arenanet doesn’t start making changes to the game just to make a certain few happy.

The game is the way it is now because of a recent change. Said change caused significant issues, and so this thread is merely a request to undo that change.

ppl need 2 chillax

I have still yet to run in to this, running about frostgorge on my 80, doing every event that pops up, and often repeating them when they pop up again, still getting 1s+ and 300+ karma per event. How much faster would I have to be doing this to get smacked for “farming” Since 80 I’ve seen cosistant karma numbers everywhere I go, in various zone levels while world clearing, or helping guild members in lower zones.

Is this just effecting you in shores? I never farmed the defense DEs in shores because it was stupidly boring, but I’ve run all over out there, done various chains that weren’t bugged, and still saw consistent rewards and mob drops, because lets face it, you can’t go anywhere out there without killing risen. I’m still getting bones from risen, blues, greens, and the occasional yellow.

Is this a sort of “cap out” in terms of mass DEs which are triggering mass risen spawns or what? i’m interested in this because I see a lot of people talking about it but it still hasn’t happened to me. This obviously makes me wonder what these people are doing that’s different than what I’m doing so I can avoid… whatever it is they’re doing.

ChairGraveyard.2967:

The new anti-farming, anti-event, anti-dungeon reward changes have made the game into a massive time sink in order to actually get any sort of rewards, which barely offset the gold sinks in the game (repairing, traveling etc.). With the new changes to dungeons, they are universally not worth doing because you get less reward than the cost of a couple of repairs.

The anti-farming system also makes it incredibly unfun to go and collect materials or try and make money, giving you junk items or nothing for dozens of kills after only a few minutes.

The event diminishing rewards discourage even participating in events, since you get horrible rewards, usually less than what it cost to travel there in the first place.

Dungeons were barely worth doing before given the horrible drops and mediocre money reward, and now with the new “we don’t want you to have fun” dungeon changes, they’re guaranteed to lose you money and waste your time.

All these changes simply serve to alienate normal players and make the game into a giant unfun time sink where your time investment is rewarded with nothing or a few coppers at best.

Please ArenaNet, for the love of all that is great about GW2, get rid of these anti-fun changes.

Oh common, look at World of Wacraft you can only do a raid once a week & heroics once a day, thats rly absurd.
Plus I bet you will be one of the first saying that the game is boring after having rushed everything.
Furthermore farming is very possible, loot chance goes down after having killed a certain amount of creatures(around 150+), but recovers pretty fast. Who wants to farm for more than 1 hour at a time, this is not RuneScape where farming 24/7 is the developers design goal.
Last but not least, at level 80 it costs me about 1,50 silver to a close waypoint and 3 for a waypoint that is located very far away and an event gets me for doing it once 1,5 silver, dungeons overall give 40 silver for a run how can you spend more on repairs & traveling than you get rewarded.