Guild Wars 2

Gambling isn’t a good business practice for your customer. I’m so sick of gaming companies taking advantage of their customers in this fashion. The whole thing makes me sick and doesn’t make me want to play your game or support it. So could you leave this bullkitten at the door? I’d appreciate thanks.

What are you talking about, none of your post describes a problem it presents a problem with no sense of origin. Please elaborate on what you are talking about by giving an example.

Kaimick.5109:

What are you talking about, none of your post describes a problem it presents a problem with no sense of origin. Please elaborate on what you are talking about by giving an example.

Get rid of the rng black lion chests they are bad. The only thing they serve is to kitten over your customer. Anet is better than this bullkitten. They know it.

I think you’re confusing good (as in the ethical construct) with good (as in effective, efficient, profitable etc.). Also last time I check wasn’t gambling actually a very lucrative business?

Online gambling is actually illegal now; hence why you don’t usually see it unless it’s on the hush hush.

Illegal, where? Not in the UK it ain’t.

Randomness is a standard part of gaming: it’s present in drop rates from foes, drop rates from chests, damage, critical damage, harvesting, and just about every aspect of this game and others.

I can’t presume to speak for the original poster, but somehow I suspect it’s not RNG that is the issue it’s that:

1. In this game, there can be a huge difference between the luckiest players and those with average luck. Those who find a precursor become instant one-percenters, while those who don’t might try to gamble 100s of gold in the mystic forge.
2. There’s no alternative method of acquiring certain items. (You can get boosters from the BL chest or from the gem shop, but not certain weapon skins.)

I rather like (1), because it means that the poorest players can become the wealthiest on a lucky roll. On the downside, this obviously tempts some players to overspend (on BL chests or on rares to flush in the Mystic Forge).

In contrast (2) can be frustrating to a lot of people: if people want to spend a bit to get a guaranteed drop, shouldn’t they be able to do that? I suppose the idea is for some account-bound items to be special that only a few players get to have them, but maybe there’s a middle ground between the current only-random-drop acquisition method and something that requires tons of gems or laurels.

CureForLiving.5360:

I think you’re confusing good (as in the ethical construct) with good (as in effective, efficient, profitable etc.). Also last time I check wasn’t gambling actually a very lucrative business?

No you see that’s what’s wrong with people you think ethics don’t belong in business, but no they do. If you’ve ever gotten an MBA you’d know this because one of the first classes you take is ethics in business. Human trafficking is also a lucrative business, but I doubt many people would be okay with that. Why? Because of ethical bounds. Same reason we have labor laws as well. I don’t play a game to gamble if I want to do that I go to a casino. Which btw is heavily regulated unlike gambling via gaming. It should be at this point. If you want to become a casino instead of a game then you need to follow the same laws. I remember when games were actually meant to be a fun past time not traps. Making money shouldn’t be at the cost of your customers and if it is then you are selling a bad product. GW1 ran fine without the gambling.

NEXON is the reason behind all these lotteries and when you will see 30 days time limits on items, you will know it better.
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Meleagar/112012/24237_NCSoft-Sold-Arenanet-and-GW2-Out-For-Nexon-Investment

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Randomness is a standard part of gaming: it’s present in drop rates from foes, drop rates from chests, damage, critical damage, harvesting, and just about every aspect of this game and others.

I can’t presume to speak for the original poster, but somehow I suspect it’s not RNG that is the issue it’s that:

1. In this game, there can be a huge difference between the luckiest players and those with average luck. Those who find a precursor become instant one-percenters, while those who don’t might try to gamble 100s of gold in the mystic forge.
2. There’s no alternative method of acquiring certain items. (You can get boosters from the BL chest or from the gem shop, but not certain weapon skins.)

I rather like (1), because it means that the poorest players can become the wealthiest on a lucky roll. On the downside, this obviously tempts some players to overspend (on BL chests or on rares to flush in the Mystic Forge).

In contrast (2) can be frustrating to a lot of people: if people want to spend a bit to get a guaranteed drop, shouldn’t they be able to do that? I suppose the idea is for some account-bound items to be special that only a few players get to have them, but maybe there’s a middle ground between the current only-random-drop acquisition method and something that requires tons of gems or laurels.

If they want to make items hard to obtain then they should do it in-game through challenging content. We all know they need to add a lot more of that to this game. If they want you to buy the item in the gem shop then straight up add the item to the gem shop for a fixed price. There is no reason to do the RNG chests except to screw over a selection of their player base. That’s the truth. It offers nothing positive to the game. That’s where I’m coming from on this one.

uknortherner.2670:

Illegal, where? Not in the UK it ain’t.

It has already passed the House here in FL and I believe it passed the senate too.

FL has outlawed/is outlawing any type of online gambling after the Allied Veterans fiasco here.

Black Lion Chests
Unidentified Dyes
MF weapons and armor
MF minis
MF sigils and runes
Material Bags
Ecto Salvaging

What did I miss?

GW2 is pretty much a casino.

fizzypop.6458:

If they want to make items hard to obtain then they should do it in-game through challenging content. We all know they need to add a lot more of that to this game. If they want you to buy the item in the gem shop then straight up add the item to the gem shop for a fixed price. There is no reason to do the RNG chests except to screw over a selection of their player base. That’s the truth. It offers nothing positive to the game. That’s where I’m coming from on this one.

This makes no sense. randomness is actually the faitest way to do it. Challenging content screws over those with little time and gem shop screws over those with little money. RNG is as fair as it gets.

here’s an idea … if you don’t like to gamble … don’t. End of story. Do without. There is nothing in the chests that’s mandatory. Enough with the self entitlement.

Catisa.6507:

here’s an idea … if you don’t like to gamble … don’t. End of story. Do without. There is nothing in the chests that’s mandatory. Enough with the self entitlement.

This game’s idea of “end game fun” is grinding for skins. So, you don’t have a point. Self entitlement is the main reason people play this game. In gw1 they played for titles, in here they play for skins.

LOL so what your complaining about it an optional item, that is not required to play the game, and it is purely cosmetic and now it is wrong because you want something that has no bearing on the game.

Gambling online is not Illegal, Full Tilt poker and many other sites are not ban. It is your choice to play these games.
http://www.unitedstatesgamblingonline.com/florida/lawkittenml
Gambling online is not illegal in Florida, in fact the state offers websites in which people can do so safely with out being scammed

::EDIT::

Also people need to stop using gambling as a way to describe the Mystic forge or the BLC.

True gambling, is playing Blackjack, or poker, or slots. When you bet, or pull/ push the lever or button and you paid x amount of money to do so there is a chance you get nothing. You can lose it all with no return that is gambling. That applies to anything that you place X value on a chance to recieve nothing in return not just Blackjack, poker, or slots

The mystic forge ( clover recipe ) no matter what you get something back, be it one or 10 of the mats you put in or a T6 mat.

With the Black Lion chest and the skins you pay X amount to get 5 keys and you open the box, you get something out of it.

No where in there is a chance you get nothing. You always get something, but just because it isn’t something you want doesn’t make it gambling. Short end of the story is gambling is not using the mystic forge or buying keys for black lion chest. Is it a Random chance you get what you want yes, is it a random chance you get nothing at all? NO

Kaimick, your link does not work.

I live in FL and have worked in the businesses as armed security that is causing the current push to ban online gambling and internet sweepstakes.

FL nailed 55+ people in a money laundering scheme that used internet cafes with online gambling. While they are trying to ban these “cafes” the language is affecting online gambling including our games with cash shops.

Optional or not, the fact that there are items that can be purchased with real cash that can cause a gamble with RNG of getting what you want falls under the definition of gambling. It is the fact that somehow REAL CASH can be involved that classifies it as gambling.

Which means unless they increase the drop rate of Black Lion Keys to become roughly 25-50% of the drop rate of Black Lion Chests those can be considered as gambling and will be affected by the new laws coming to FL since the fastest way to get BLKs is to buy them from the Gem Store.

The Dyes and Minpet Packs sold in the Gem Store (not the Unidentified Dyes picked up as random drops) would also fall under the definition.

Basically, ONLY the RNG items from the Gem Store would be classed as gambling and subject to the new laws.

I just want to know how each game company would work this out. Would they identify the IP addresses as coming from FL (and any other states/countries that outlaw online gambling with the same language) and automatically block the purchases of the items in question? Take the items off the cash shop world wide? Block the games from those states/countries?

The new laws are not in stone yet here in FL since it has been less than a month since the heavy push to outlaw online gambling, but the wording is about to change how some aspects of online gaming are treated.

gam·ble (gmbl)

noun.
2. An act or undertaking of uncertain outcome; a risk

“I took a gamble in buying a dye pack from the gem store to get an Abyss dye and only got a lame pink dye.”

fizzypop.6458:

CureForLiving.5360:

I think you’re confusing good (as in the ethical construct) with good (as in effective, efficient, profitable etc.). Also last time I check wasn’t gambling actually a very lucrative business?

No you see that’s what’s wrong with people you think ethics don’t belong in business, but no they do. If you’ve ever gotten an MBA you’d know this because one of the first classes you take is ethics in business. Human trafficking is also a lucrative business, but I doubt many people would be okay with that. Why? Because of ethical bounds. Same reason we have labor laws as well. I don’t play a game to gamble if I want to do that I go to a casino. Which btw is heavily regulated unlike gambling via gaming. It should be at this point. If you want to become a casino instead of a game then you need to follow the same laws. I remember when games were actually meant to be a fun past time not traps. Making money shouldn’t be at the cost of your customers and if it is then you are selling a bad product. GW1 ran fine without the gambling.

I think you misunderstood CFL’s comment.

Anyways, here’s my two cents. As long as
1) Customers know what they’re buying
2) They aren’t being forced to buy what they’re buying, they’re making a conscious, willing decision to do so

and

3) Customers get what they bought

Then it’s completely ethical. By engaging in the action, customers give their consent that they willingly make the decision to buy such-and-such item (in this case, randomized BLTC chests) and that they are responsible for the consequences of their purchase of the item.

Now, the issue I have with posts like these is that we get have items that follow all three of these conditions, and yet the consumer still wants to blame the supplier for their bad luck. Well, given that BLTC chests are known by consumers to be random, that consumers aren’t being forced to buy these chests- they’re making a willing, conscious decision to buy the chests- and that consumers get the randomness that they payed for, the only person to blame here if a consumer gets bad luck is the consumer him or herself. The instant the consumer made the willing decision to buy a BLTC chest, they naturally accepted the fact that the chests were randomized. They realized that they were swapping money for randomness, and, on top of that, randomness which they really knew nothing about, but chose to engage in anyways.

So, please, please don’t write posts like these blaming ANet. Blame the consumers who made the willing and conscious decision to risk their wealth on a bet.

1. I don’t purchase keys for gamble boxes.
2. ANet is not taking advantage of people by including them, since you can choose not to buy keys.
3. The gamble is in whether you get what you want, not in whether you win a prize or get nothing. The latter is true of lotteries and raffles, which are typically the targets of online gambling laws. These boxes are not legally gambling, any more than collectible miniatures or cards. France has an anti-online-gambling law, but you can buy Magic: The Gathering at Amazon France.
4. It’s funny how no one objects to Black Lion Chests until ANet puts something people want in them.

IndigoSundown.5419:

4. It’s funny how no one objects to Black Lion Chests until ANet puts something people want in them.

I honestly don’t know what is in them nowadays. I get a key from my story and I unlock one and usually get boosters out of it.

I’m more concerned that I’ll still be able to play GW2 with the wording of the new laws coming to FL since I did pay for an account. It seems that the easiest way to avoid the new laws is for ANet to remove the keys, mini packs, and the dye packs out of the Gem Store.

I even quickly checked the Gem Store and those 3 items are the only things there that are even attached to RNG in any way. Everything else is WYSIWYG.

Ravion Hawk.4736:

Kaimick, your link does not work.

I live in FL and have worked in the businesses as armed security that is causing the current push to ban online gambling and internet sweepstakes.

FL nailed 55+ people in a money laundering scheme that used internet cafes with online gambling. While they are trying to ban these “cafes” the language is affecting online gambling including our games with cash shops.

Optional or not, the fact that there are items that can be purchased with real cash that can cause a gamble with RNG of getting what you want falls under the definition of gambling. It is the fact that somehow REAL CASH can be involved that classifies it as gambling.

Which means unless they increase the drop rate of Black Lion Keys to become roughly 25-50% of the drop rate of Black Lion Chests those can be considered as gambling and will be affected by the new laws coming to FL since the fastest way to get BLKs is to buy them from the Gem Store.

The Dyes and Minpet Packs sold in the Gem Store (not the Unidentified Dyes picked up as random drops) would also fall under the definition.

Basically, ONLY the RNG items from the Gem Store would be classed as gambling and subject to the new laws.

I just want to know how each game company would work this out. Would they identify the IP addresses as coming from FL (and any other states/countries that outlaw online gambling with the same language) and automatically block the purchases of the items in question? Take the items off the cash shop world wide? Block the games from those states/countries?

The new laws are not in stone yet here in FL since it has been less than a month since the heavy push to outlaw online gambling, but the wording is about to change how some aspects of online gaming are treated.

It is the Gambling laws for Florida, As they have not banned it as of now, and from everything I been seeing they will not be able to ban online gambling. Just like you stated

causing the current push to ban online gambling and internet sweepstakes.

That means they haven’t ban anything as of yet. No matter what company you work for the FL. law is set in stone.

Again the BLC are not or would not; along with the dye packs and other sets of the game, fall under that law. You should read your states laws on gambling. Just like another poster said, when you purchased the key for the chest or that dye pack, it clearly states opens a chest that gives you random goods. Along with dye packs. When you use them you get exactly what you paid for end of story. Just because it is not what you wanted doesn’t make it illegal.