Guild Wars 2

I think the guardians sword skills needs to be buffed up a little bit. There needs to be a trait to reduce sword skills by 20% with a increase of 10% damage. Flashing Blade needs a increase in damage and a 1-2 sec immobilize.

Right Hand Strength increases critical damage.

Also, have you seen Berserker Guardians? They use Sword and stomp people.

Esplen.3940:

Right Hand Strength increases critical damage.

Also, have you seen Berserker Guardians? They use Sword and stomp people.

That is critical chance not critical damage, “Critical-hit chance with one-handed weapons is increased by 15%.” http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Right-Hand_Strength. Also full berserker guardians…not a good idea.

imagangsta.1349:

Esplen.3940:

Right Hand Strength increases critical damage.

Also, have you seen Berserker Guardians? They use Sword and stomp people.

That is critical chance not critical damage, “Critical-hit chance with one-handed weapons is increased by 15%.” http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Right-Hand_Strength. Also full berserker guardians…not a good idea.

Most situations 15% crit chance will do more than 15% crit dmg. Their impact on your damage is based on multiplying the 2. Crit dmg will usually be a higher value (minimum is 50%).
If a>b then a*(b+.15)>(a+.15)*b because 0.15a>0.15b

Contribution from criticals to your damage output is calculated as base*(1+crit chance*(crit dmg in hero panel + 0.5))

On a full zerker Guardian, 15% crit chance will add (assuming 100% crit damage)…

0.15 * 2.5 = .375 or 37.5% more damage.

The 2.5 is 250% crit damage because base crit damage is 150% + the 100% bonus crit damage from stats).

Just saying.

I was just clarifying that it was critical chance not critical damage no need for this math mumbo jumbo.

Esplen.3940:

On a full zerker Guardian, 15% crit chance will add (assuming 100% crit damage)…

0.15 * 2.5 = .375 or 37.5% more damage.

The 2.5 is 250% crit damage because base crit damage is 150% + the 100% bonus crit damage from stats).

Just saying.

That’s… not how the math works… the obvious giveaway being that the impact of an increase in crit chance is dependent on the existing crit chance. This is where diminishing returns from stacking only a single stat comes into play.

More relevant example, 40% crit chance, 100% crit dmg (on hero panel)
=base*1.6
55% crit chance, 100% crit dmg
=base*1.825
40% crit chance, 115% crit dmg
=base*1.66

In this scenario, 15% crit dmg was only a 3.75% more dps while 15% crit chance is 14.0625% more dps.

Player Character.9467:

Esplen.3940:

On a full zerker Guardian, 15% crit chance will add (assuming 100% crit damage)…

0.15 * 2.5 = .375 or 37.5% more damage.

The 2.5 is 250% crit damage because base crit damage is 150% + the 100% bonus crit damage from stats).

Just saying.

That’s… not how the math works… the obvious giveaway being that the impact of an increase in crit chance is dependent on the existing crit chance. This is where diminishing returns from stacking only a single stat comes into play.

More relevant example, 40% crit chance, 100% crit dmg (on hero panel)
=base*1.6
55% crit chance, 100% crit dmg
=base*1.825
40% crit chance, 115% crit dmg
=base*1.66

In this scenario, 15% crit dmg was only a 3.75% more dps while 15% crit chance is 14.0625% more dps.

Actually, my math was the damage impact on your overall dps. Which means that assuming 100% crit dmg, a 15% crit chance would be the difference between 37.5% damage. If you were to compare crit chance to crit damage, that’s a difficult equation that goes ridiculously in-depth but can also be found (solved): here

Just because my math doesn’t fit your interpretation doesn’t make it wrong.

Also, I was telling him that 15% crit chance is still useful and/or comparable to a flat damage increase. Traits aren’t necessarily supposed to give you optimal damage, they’re just supposed to give you bonuses which you yourself work around to get optimal damage.

1. No. Again, your math didn’t mean anything. You pulled numbers out of the air and made a statement that makes no sense.
2. The correct math is high school level.

damage = noncrits contribution + crits contribution
= strength of a noncrit * noncrit chance+ strength of a crit * crit chance
= attack*(1-crit chance) + attack*(1.5+critdmg)*crit chance

Edit: the table you linked even reinforces exactly what i said…

This is a thread about buffing the guardians sword not a math debate.

You’re not even reading what I wrote.

Anyways, @imagansta, as far as I can tell, swords on Guardians are just fine.

Other than some tweaking on numbers for the active part of the skills, I think sword is fine, the damage is good for a 1-h weapon. The problem is everyone compares all other guardian weapons to the greatsword which is stupidly overpowered right now. They need to bring down GS not buff everything else to compensate. That creates power creep and never helps anything.

Well I don’t see how guardians swords are “just fine” since if you look at mesmer’s sword skills blurred frenzy 12 recharge and invulnerable for 1/2 a sec or so and if you add the 20% reduction for swords skills with trait “Blade Training” goes down to 9.5 sec. Where as guardians sword 3 has a 15 sec cool down and blocks projectiles. I just don’t see the balance there.

Blurred Frenzy – 130 range
Zealot’s Defense – 600 range

Blurred Frenzy-9.5 sec cool down invulnerable for 1/2 sec
Zealot’s Defense-15 sec cool down blocks projectiles

Also Mesmers have a immobilize on sword 3 to get nearly a full blurred frenzy off, while a guardians zealot’s defense gets maybe half of its full hits off, and has no immobilize on a sword or any offhand weapon. So range doesn’t really matter in this situation.

You’re comparing apples to oranges here. One weapon is purely offensive while the other has defensive attributes (including the leap/blind) and defensive skills are almost always on a longer cooldown. Just the way they do it and I imagine for good reason. Also, mesmer is known throughout the game as an imbalanced class as far as the level of power it can crank out with little effort so comparing anything to memser is moot. Now compare it to say warrior or thief sword, then you might have an argument. It’s far superior to warrior sword, mainhand one anyway, and while the thief one is pretty powerful too, it still has it’s limits and pretty sure they recently nerfed the shadowstep on it as well. Guardian sword is fine in the hands of a skilled player. All I’m saying.

Keep also in mind, that – thanks to a mass QQ about the subject – Blurred Frenzy is no longer an Invulnerability move, it is now Evade. Illusionary Leap is NOTORIOUSLY buggy, and the pathing will fail abysmally over so much as a stray blade of grass in the way. Let alone if you’re fighting on uneven ground, GL to you.

Also, I find it quite funny that Mesmer is called imbalanced and OP. Considering that certain Guardian specs (AH or Monk’s Focus Triple-Meditation, for example) are pretty blasted hard for almost ANY Profession to take down …

With that said, I’ve thought for months that Guard MH Sword should have at least one tweak. Considering the animation of Zealot’s Defense, those projectiles should
strike targets in a line.

Advent.6193:

Keep also in mind, that – thanks to a mass QQ about the subject – Blurred Frenzy is no longer an Invulnerability move, it is now Evade.

Ya! Take that… retaliation guardians!

=/ guardians that do tons of damage… that just feels wrong.

Nay of the Ether.8913:

You’re comparing apples to oranges here. One weapon is purely offensive while the other has defensive attributes (including the leap/blind) and defensive skills are almost always on a longer cooldown. Just the way they do it and I imagine for good reason. Also, mesmer is known throughout the game as an imbalanced class as far as the level of power it can crank out with little effort so comparing anything to memser is moot. Now compare it to say warrior or thief sword, then you might have an argument. It’s far superior to warrior sword, mainhand one anyway, and while the thief one is pretty powerful too, it still has it’s limits and pretty sure they recently nerfed the shadowstep on it as well. Guardian sword is fine in the hands of a skilled player. All I’m saying.

Ok so lemme get this straight you’re saying the invulnerability/evade on mesmer’s “blurred frenzy” skill isn’t a defensive maneuver? Yet this skill has a 12 sec cooldown (9.5 sec if traited) where as guardians zealot’s defense has 15 sec. Also guardians sword is considered to be a offensive weapon. As for warriors sword i think its pretty decent if you have leg specialist i dunno why you think its that bad, you get 2 immobilizes for a sec also i think a 4 sec immobilize+bleeds with the F1 adrenaline skill. I just think guardians sword could use some buffing when compared to other classes sword skills. Maybe they could add a 1 sec immobilize on flashing blade and have zealot’s defense with a 12 sec cool down than a 15 sec. Also saying i’m a unskilled guardian because i’m suggesting improvements on a weapon is just stupidity. I have 900+ hours into my guardian with 27k wvw kills most of those kills came from being on the lowest populated server there is (Eredon Terrace) so bub know what you’re talking about before you try an troll.

How is the sword not a good weapon?
- The default damage isn’t bad at all.
- The auto attack is the fastest attack for a guardian. I easily keep the aggro of a mob with it.
- The combo 2-3 takes the best of the sword by getting close to the enemy then dps him very well.
- The general mobility is excellent since you’re “blocked” only by the skill 3 and you don’t get slowed by the two other skills (unlike the greatsword that slows you down for skill 2 and 5, immobilizes when you use 4; or even the hammer that forces you in some moves)

No, really, I’d like serious arguments for buffing this weapon, not a vague “I think”.

When have I said guardians sword is bad, I’m just saying it could use some improvements.
Could make Powerful Blades have 20% reduction in sword skills and 5% damage. Also a 1 sec immobilize on Flashing Blade would be nice. I don’t know how to make it less “vague” than that. Also guardians fastest auto is with the scepter, with it being 1/4 sec and sword being 1/2 sec.

imagangsta.1349:

When have I said guardians sword is bad, I’m just saying it could use some improvements.
Could make Powerful Blades have 20% reduction in sword skills and 5% damage. Also a 1 sec immobilize on Flashing Blade would be nice. I don’t know how to make it less “vague” than that. Also guardians fastest auto is with the scepter, with it being 1/4 sec and sword being 1/2 sec.

Yes, I read that afterwards in subsequent messages. Sorry for not going further.

When I said the sword has the fastest auto-attack, I meant for melee weapons, ofc.

Now this is said, let’s go to constructivism:

So why do you want Flashing Blade immobilize? Why isn’t Blind enough? Immobilize already exists on Scepter. Do you want the sword to be a melee scepter? For me, they both fill different roles. With scepter you immobilize your opponent so your auto-attack is “less lost” when the target moves, plus you give some vulnerability stacks to increase the dmg. With sword, you blind in melee to start dps while making the opponent miss his/her first hit. I don’t see the need to immobilize your opponent, except to throw him #3 or GS#2 in the face, which you be OP.

Why do you want more damages? Why do you think the sword doesn’t deal enough dmg? Compared to other classes? The sword is the fastest melee weapon of a guardian. With a guardian, you have the choice: whether you hit fast but with not really high damages or you deal high damages at a slower rate. The sword represent the fast aspect of this duality.

I do think that you need to understand that the guardian isn’t the warrior. His role is to deal decent damage while controlling the opposition and buffing the rest of the group so the rest of the group gets through the fight. It doesn’t need to deal absurd damages.

I would have a 1 sec immobilize to get the full zealot’s defense off, because if the opponent gets to the 600 range the projectiles from Zealots Defense doesn’t always hit a target at max range so you lose damage. Also I never said guardians sword needed more damage, if you look at the “Powerful Blades” trait there is already a 5% increase in sword and spear skills, so i have no idea where you’re getting that from.

“His role is to deal decent damage while controlling the opposition and buffing the rest of the group so the rest of the group gets through the fight.” Not all the guardians weapon skills is for crowd control or gives boons, Look at the scepter no crowd control nor does it give boons. Same with sword no CC or gives any boons.

imagangsta.1349:

I would have a 1 sec immobilize to get the full zealot’s defense off, because if the opponent gets to the 600 range the projectiles from Zealots Defense doesn’t always hit a target at max range so you lose damage. Also I never said guardians sword needed more damage, if you look at the “Powerful Blades” trait there is already a 5% increase in sword and spear skills, so i have no idea where you’re getting that from.

“His role is to deal decent damage while controlling the opposition and buffing the rest of the group so the rest of the group gets through the fight.” Not all the guardians weapon skills is for crowd control or gives boons, Look at the scepter no crowd control nor does it give boons. Same with sword no CC or gives any boons.

If you want to CC then grab a CC weapon…

imagangsta.1349:

Look at the scepter no crowd control

I didn’t say “crowd control”: I said “control”. And that is present on the scepter with chain of light.

The stupidity on the forums is astounding…I was making a point about what Fror was saying if you would look at the quote in the 2nd paragraph, I wasn’t saying I wanted a CC weapon.

Ok imagangsta, I think you and I aren’t so far off from what we’re sayiing, maybe just saying it in different ways or just misunderstanding each other, and yes I still stand by my original stance of mesmer main sword being pure offense and guardian sword being defensive oriented, but I already gave my opinions on that. You’re saying that certain sword skill effects could be tweaked, I agreed on that earlier but it might have gotten lost in the chaos in here. I think what advent said about zealot’s defense skill not hitting reliably is a problem for the sword and should be addressed. I think it the swrod itself should maybe get some good trait skills to make it more attractive to bring. But I still stand by my original point of it being an ok weapon, but the reason it seems lacking is mainly due to the OP-ness of the greatsword.