Guild Wars 2

another RvR MMO had this and it was really beneficial for claiming keeps.

Essentially your guild can set a tax rate on all monetary drops you get in the world. This tax then goes into a guild fund which is used for keep upgrades.

So, for example, if you take a supply camp and get 1s and your guild has decided to set the tax rate at 20%, you would get 80c and the guild fund gets 20c.

The tax rate can be set anywhere from 0% to 100%, it’s up the the guild leader.

And what do you propose we use said guild funds on? Guild currency is influence….

Siege equipment

beside OP mentioned it himself already, guild keeps. And well you could also buy extra inf as well, or it could be used to arrange fun event for your guilds etc etc, LOTS of things a guild can use money for

If this standard of taxing were only kept in the wvw universe then I would strongly agree to this despite how poor I am. It encourages all the right things

The rate would be set by your guild, so if your Guild only did PvE or never claimed keeps in WvW it could be set to 0% and members would never notice.

Guilds that are very active in WvW would probably want to set this higher. Claiming Keeps and buying upgrade is an expensive, but vital part of WvW. This is just a suggestion to create a system that balances the costs across all members for those guilds that would like to take advantage of it.

And when I belong to 4 guilds? What then? I get kicked from a guild because I don’t rep it enough and the absentee leader isn’t aware of my other contributions?

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How will rounding be handled ?
Because that will be a mess, especially when someone is a member of multiple guilds.

I suggest a tax credit system. Each tax credit is worth 1% of a copper coin. When you pay an amount that includes a fraction of a copper, it’s rounded up and the excess is recorded as a tax credit. Eg your guild has a tax rate of 15%. You earn 12 copper from a drop, so you have a tax bill of 1.8 copper. 2 copper is taken from your inventory:
– 1 copper goes into the guild bank
– The guild receives 80 tax credits.
– You receive 20 tax credits.
Nobody can do anything with tax credits. You can’t trade them. You can’t give them away. They just sit somewhere, not even taking up an inventory slot, until you have more than 100 of them. Then they get automatically exchanged for a copper coin.

zaxziakohl.5243:

And what do you propose we use said guild funds on? Guild currency is influence….

Siege equipment.
Upgrading keeps, towers, etc in WvW.
Buying influence.
Helping members acquire better gear.
Random vanity projects. Like giving the entire guild the pirate outfit.
Buying all the glittering dust that the guild leader is snorting.

Basically, that’s up to the guild leadership. If you have a problem with what your guild is spending the tax on, then you have a problem with the guild.

robinsiebler.3801:

And when I belong to 4 guilds? What then? I get kicked from a guild because I don’t rep it enough and the absentee leader isn’t aware of my other contributions?

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That is a problem between you and the leader of the guild(s) you belong to.

I’d say that when you are a member of multiple guilds then can opt out of paying taxes to the guild(s) you aren’t representing right now. However, the guild leader will be able to see which members are opting out of paying tax and exactly when they are doing so.
Then it’s up to guild leadership to decide what to do about members who aren’t paying tax 100% of the time.

Agreed. We need guild tax. It’s a fair and automated system and it works well in other games.

WvW guilds in particular REALLY need this as there is no other way to fairly distribute the costs. Even the best efforts of distributing costs manually can’t be as fair as a “10% tax”.

No.

If you want to tax your guildmates, Tell your guildmates to send 1g to you every month instead of using a system behind their backs.

runeblade.7514:

No.

If you want to tax your guildmates, Tell your guildmates to send 1g to you every month instead of using a system behind their backs.

- Why do you think this will be “behind their backs” ?
The current tax rate should be be easily visible to all guild members. I see no reason why the rate should be hidden. I’m even willing to suggest that when the rate gets changed, every guild member gets mail saying so along with a warning period before the new rate goes into effect so they have time to leave the guild if the rate gets too high.

- Why 1g every month ?

- How do you think the guild should keep track of who has paid and who hasn’t ?
What happens when a mistake gets made ?

I would support a guild tax as long as it is added to your guild bank to be used however the guild officers/leaders deem appropriate (and not just on WvW crap), is only active to your currently represented guild, and requires that the guild have at least a guild stash so the money may be deposited directly into the guild bank.

Taxing has been done in many games, and is always a huge boon to the guilds of the game. There are two main ways to handle it;
1. The guild leaders (or other ranks set to handle it) can control the % of dropped coin that goes to the guild bank. Rewarded coin from heart/zone completion, merching, events, etc is unaffected. They can usually tax from 0-50%. If they tax too high and/or you want to keep all your meager dropped coin, simply unrep or leave.
2. A flat % is purchased for the guild (something small like 2-10%) and all dropped coin that guild members earn generates that % more coin that is deposited directly into the guild bank. So you’re not loosing any coin, your members are all generating more coin (the extra just goes to the gbank). Reward coin (from events, heart/zone completion, dungeons, etc) is still not counted for this.

Without a tax, members tend to not donate to their guild(s), particularly those who see themselves as ‘poor’. Costs for things like siege weaponry, upgrading keeps, and commander that are clearly designed to be a group effort, but instead fall to bankrupting guild leaders/officers personal funds.
I expect guild halls (when they come) to cost both influence and gold, and the gold end to be similarly designed with group funding expectations. So any form of taxing will likely benefit any guild who wants a guild hall in the future as well.

I’m against this. There are far too many gold sinks in this game already. It’s one of the few really crappy things about GW2. Why would I want to be even more poor than I already am?

Lillium.6481:

I expect guild halls (when they come) to cost both influence and gold, and the gold end to be similarly designed with group funding expectations. So any form of taxing will likely benefit any guild who wants a guild hall in the future as well.

To date ANet has not added a single thing in game which requires upkeep. I can’t see them moving away from that for guild halls. Maybe the initial purchase would cost gold, but I can’t see it costing upkeep.

ANet has tried really really really hard to make sure that the game isn’t like a job, and that you are not required to do x amount of this x many hours of x many days a week to keep from falling behind.

If they were to implement an upkeep system for anything in game, it would cause guilds who have more casual players to fall behind. They have spent the entire time making the game making sure the casual player doesn’t lose access to parts of the game simply because they are casual. They won’t change that by implementing something to hinder casual players later. Especially not guilds.

This means that for the initial purchase, everyone could pitch in, but taxing would certainly not be needed to obtain this. Guild says, I want this. Leader asks, well how bad do you want it? If they want it bad enough, they’ll dish it up.

However…player housing is entirely free, what’s to say guild housing won’t be too?

I could see you be able to purchase upgrades (through influence) with your guild housing. And then maybe cosmetic housing appearances cost gold. However designing banners was gold free as well…

zaxziakohl.5243:

To date ANet has not added a single thing in game which requires upkeep. I can’t see them moving away from that for guild halls. Maybe the initial purchase would cost gold, but I can’t see it costing upkeep.

I’m expecting more decorative things to cost gold. I don’t really expect upkeep at all. Like, its pretty much a given that purchasing the hall, expanding the size, filling it out with NPCs, etc will cost influence. But when you want to furnish a room and hang art in it, etc, that doesn’t sound like an influence-appropriate expense. Hence gold (and a need for guild funds).

Even if not a guild tax, but an auto donate option by fellow memebers. For example, an option could be for players to auto donate earnings. Could be a % or actual amount like 2-4c with it going directly to the deepest part of the guild stash.

Sparhawk.9120:

Even if not a guild tax, but an auto donate option by fellow memebers. For example, an option could be for players to auto donate earnings. Could be a % or actual amount like 2-4c with it going directly to the deepest part of the guild stash.

This. I don’t think it should be a requirement but I personally would like to donate and it would be nice to have a method for doing that.

I agree with implementing the feature but not with making it a requirement for all guild members.

I agree that a easy way to donate would be nice.

But forcing people to pay a tax , would be horrible, even if i know my guild leader would set it is to 0.

I don’t like the idea of a guild imposed tax but I do like Sparhawk’s idea to make donations easy by allowing us to set a percentage of our monetary rewards or a fixed amount that goes to the guild vault/bank. The guild bank is just not an efficient way to collect monetary donations for guild use. Even if members do remember to donate handing over a gold is painful but a few copper from every drop over the course of weeks painlessly accomplishes the same thing.

as a guild, you have two banks. pick the smaller one (guild stash) and set it to “deposit only”. then tell your guildies to deposit some cash there every now and then, to fund WvW.

my guild does that already, without the need of an extra mechanic and without forcing players that aren’t into WvW to pay up.

We have the deposit only option set up but aside from setting some kind of donation requirement (boo) or sending out constant reminders there is no easy way to get regular donations from more than a small number of total guild members.

Zonzai.2341:

I’m against this. There are far too many gold sinks in this game already. It’s one of the few really crappy things about GW2. Why would I want to be even more poor than I already am?

This isn’t a gold sink. Just a method to automatically transfer gold from guild members to the guild bank.

As for not wanting to be poorer than you are, that just means you will want to be in a guild with a 0% tax rate.

Nox Aeterna.2965:

I agree that a easy way to donate would be nice.

But forcing people to pay a tax , would be horrible, even if i know my guild leader would set it is to 0.

What is so horrible about a tax ?

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

What is so horrible about a tax ?

Well you said it yourself did you not?

People are already in guilds , imagine this system is implemented now , how much in fight/grief would this bring? This could actually break entire guilds. Since tons of people could simple say they want 0 tax , while others say there should be some.

A donating system is much better , since it makes an easy way for anyone who wants to contribute to the guild.

Like i said i know my guild leader and she would not do such a thing even if they implemented it. Still for other guilds i think this would be pretty bad.

Nox Aeterna.2965:

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

What is so horrible about a tax ?

Well you said it yourself did you not?

People are already in guilds , imagine this system is implemented now , how much in fight/grief would this bring? This could actually break entire guilds. Since tons of people could simple say they want 0 tax , while others say there should be some.

I can’t see a guild breaking because the tax rate is too low. So that means that it breaks because a significant number of members think the tax rate is too high. Which means at least one of the following:
– There are members unwilling to put the guilds interests before their own.
– The leader has set the tax rate too high for his own personal gain. Putting his interests above that of the guild.
Putting personal interests above guild interests is going to lead to problems. This just brings it up quicker.

It’s only going to be a single shock. Some guilds will collapse, but things will quickly settle down.

A donating system is much better , since it makes an easy way for anyone who wants to contribute to the guild.

A donation system is opt in. Which means that people who don’t care either way won’t be donating, so you’ll need to take more from the people who are.

A donation system allows people to refuse to pay while still remaining a member. If that is a problem for your guild, that means you’ll have to kick the freeloaders. Which means the guild leadership has to spend time maintaining this, along with dealing with potential drama from the friends of the kicked freeloader

With a tax system the freeloader will remove themselves from the guild, meaning less drama among the remaining members. Especially when some potential freeloaders look at the tax rate and decide to join a different guild.

Lets say you have a guild that kicks people for not donating. What happens when someone is unable to afford the minimum donation ? (say, because they spent a week or two playing a different game)
What happens when someone lies about being unable to afford the donation ?
A tax system will take less from the players who can’t afford to pay as much.

A donation system has the coin arriving in lumps. A tax system has a much more continuous flow, making it much easier for the guild to budget how they are spending the coin. Then there is the issue of guild theft. Lets assume weekly donations:
– If the thief strikes just after one weeks donations come in, the guild has to either beg members or make do with no money till next week. Being without money in the bank is a problem if the guild keeps buying siege equipment.
– If the thief strikes a guild with taxes, the tax will have new coin coming in very quickly. So they have a much shorter window before they are back buying siege equipment again.

I don’t see how a donation system can be better unless you start with the assumption that taxes are bad.

Like i said i know my guild leader and she would not do such a thing even if they implemented it. Still for other guilds i think this would be pretty bad.

It will only be bad for bad guilds. Those guilds with a sense of community will be able to handle the introduction of a tax.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

runeblade.7514:

No.

If you want to tax your guildmates, Tell your guildmates to send 1g to you every month instead of using a system behind their backs.

- Why do you think this will be “behind their backs” ?
The current tax rate should be be easily visible to all guild members. I see no reason why the rate should be hidden. I’m even willing to suggest that when the rate gets changed, every guild member gets mail saying so along with a warning period before the new rate goes into effect so they have time to leave the guild if the rate gets too high.

- Why 1g every month ?

- How do you think the guild should keep track of who has paid and who hasn’t ?
What happens when a mistake gets made ?

If a guild can’t keep track of it, it is their problem.

With this implemented, it is intrusive to my playstyle, and I will never join a Guild.

No tax. It’s been said. Tax would not be optional, donations are.

I believe a log of donations should be kept, or a bank log kept (this would keep track of them within the current system.)

Keep track of who your big contributors are, and the reward them accordingly.

I mean many guilds are multifaceted and at this point the biggest guild spending feature is WvW. What kind of sucky would it be if you joined a guild because they like dungeons, and taxes were taken out so that the WvW half of the guild could buy siege weapons?!

Donations (logged) is the way to go. If the guild members want something bad enough, they will donate…it’s that simple. This would mean that only the part of the guild spending the money, is the part donating it. Which is exactly how it should be. I’m not going to spend my money so other people can enjoy content I don’t play…

runeblade.7514:

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

runeblade.7514:

No.

If you want to tax your guildmates, Tell your guildmates to send 1g to you every month instead of using a system behind their backs.

- Why do you think this will be “behind their backs” ?
The current tax rate should be be easily visible to all guild members. I see no reason why the rate should be hidden. I’m even willing to suggest that when the rate gets changed, every guild member gets mail saying so along with a warning period before the new rate goes into effect so they have time to leave the guild if the rate gets too high.

- Why 1g every month ?

- How do you think the guild should keep track of who has paid and who hasn’t ?
What happens when a mistake gets made ?

If a guild can’t keep track of it, it is their problem.

With this implemented, it is intrusive to my playstyle, and I will never join a Guild.

A tax system, with everything automated so you’ll only notice it when the tax rate to high is “intrusive”. But a system where you have to take time out of playing to manually send the coin is not.
A system where the guild leaders have to regularly remind everyone about the need for donations is not intrusive. But an automated system where the guild leaders don’t need to say anything is.
How is the tax more intrusive than donations ?

As for “never join a guild”, what about the guilds with a 0% tax rate ?
They will exist, unless ANET is stupid and doesn’t allow them to.

zaxziakohl.5243:

No tax. It’s been said. Tax would not be optional, donations are.

I believe a log of donations should be kept, or a bank log kept (this would keep track of them within the current system.)

Keep track of who your big contributors are, and the reward them accordingly.

Keeping track of contributors when you have 100+ members takes a lot of work.

I mean many guilds are multifaceted and at this point the biggest guild spending feature is WvW. What kind of sucky would it be if you joined a guild because they like dungeons, and taxes were taken out so that the WvW half of the guild could buy siege weapons?!

Then you need to either ask the guild about guild taxes [i]before[/]i joining that guild. When you find out that their tax goes to things you don’t like, you go find another guild.

Not that the situation you describe sounds like a good match of a guild and a player even without the taxes. If you join a guild because they like dungeons, and they have a significant WvW focus, then there will be a significant portion of the time when they are unavailable to join you in dungeons. A better fit would be a more PvE focused guild.

I’m not going to spend my money so other people can enjoy content I don’t play…

Then go join a guild that doesn’t use taxes to pay for the content you aren’t playing.

if this were to be implimented then the taxee’s participation should be voluntary.you might be able to guilt or bribe some people into it. but my gold only goes to me. you can keep the influence.

I think what people have established is that they want more tools for managing guilds and guild resources. I don’t think anyone has demonstrated that a “guild tax” is the best way to accomplish these goals.

One concern is how do mid-size and small guilds generate enough influence to purchase desired upgrades. For large guilds, it’s how to keep track of who is contributing to the guild (via representation/participation). All guilds could use more tools to communicate with their members and track who’s donating to the shared storage (and who is leeching).

I’d rather see ANet address those issue more directly than worry about how to impose a tax so it’s not regressive on poorer guildies and doesn’t create exclusive guilds for the wealthy.