Guild Wars 2

Mike.7236:

I know I promised to go away, but since I’m still thinking about these things, I might as well think out loud here…

…

I’ve never experienced anything similar in any other game, so I started thinking why that may be. And it suddenly struck me why a “WoW-style” setup where players manage a bunch of action bars themselves is superior to the single weapon-managed bar of GW2. It is not just superior in my personal opinion, it is OBJECTIVELY superior in a way I’d volunteer to prove in a lab (given sufficient funding)!

…

I don’t mind having an ability that goes against the grain of the class, but I want it over with my situational abilities, not hard-wired to numeric button 2!

And I especially want to be the one to make the decision, TYVM.

I’d disagree with most of this, I find that the less you are allowed to bring, the more important your build choices and strategy become.

You have to find a way to do a lot, with little

This was evident even in the first Guild Wars. You would lose matches of PVP, or wipe on an important mission, because you didn’t bring the right skill. There’s a lot of coulda shoulda woulda. If ONLY you’d brought a res skill, if ONLY you’d brought an interrupt, you could have done that mission without wiping. If ONLY you’d brought a speed boost or a knockdown you could have caught that monk and won the match.

When it’s all at your fingertips, you have fewer choices to make, it’s all then just hitting the right button. In a system like GW1, you have to know before the mission/dungeon, what skills you will probably need. In GW2, you can switch skills any time out of combat, but you have to think, before you start that boss fight, does it say they use conditions, does it say they use projectiles, does it say summons allies? Then you make your choices on weapons and utility skills based on that. If a mob doesn’t use projectiles but causes conditions and buffs itself, there’s little use for feedback but null field will be invaluable.

When I say there’s flaws to the game, I’m not meaning the weapon/skill system, I’m just talking about the meta of all dps that is caused by weak heal scaling, low base survivability, and the fact that everything is intended to be dodged

I personally love the weapon based skill system and weapon swapping, only thing I’d change about it is make each weapon have a pool of available skills and allow you to select 2-4 skills (autoattack stays the same) from that pool of say 12 skills. This would also allow you to map your weapon skills in your desired order. I agree with this gripe and have friends who literally quit the game when Guardian greatsword keybindings were swapped on them, ruining their muscle memory for the skills.

Devildoc.6721:

tovadaun.6304:

On top of Damage Avoidance, you’re also forgetting the awesome major factor they’ve introduced in GW2…
Be Responsible For Y.O.U.R.S.E.L.F!
Snip…
Thank You ANet. I won’t Ever have to play WoW again. You have no idea what that’s worth to me. <3

Problem is, that leads to a lack of teamwork. There are classes that do necessary utility functions that aid the group, Guardian and Mesmer namely, in their projectile defense (wall of reflection, feedback, phantasmal warden), boons (particularly might from guardians, stability from guardians, banners from warriors, and quickness from mesmers), and boon stripping. Otherwise everyone would just run 5 warriors.

Snip…

I do believe you misunderstood me.
I am not in any way saying that one is entirely self-sufficient. I am saying that there is no need for a dedicated healer role because each and every Profession has the core skills to heal themselves built in.
In WoW there are a couple straight healers, a couple hybrid heal/non-healers, and a few classes that simply have zero ability to heal anything.
In GW2 we are not so. This is the point I was trying to make. We do not need a healing role, because we can heal ourselves (when we fail to just Avoid the damage).
Absolutely we need the other support! My two main alts i play are a support Guard and an Elixir Gun Eng! Without the teamwork from the rest of the group, or even some kind of skill thrown in by random-passing-by-stranger-dude-or-chick-on-their-way-someplace-else… Sometimes an endeavor to kill something might just go a little more south than we’d hoped for But by no means do we need someone who’s only purpose in the game is to watch a set of bars for depletion and refill them. This is essentially all a healer does. Anyone who claims otherwise is not doin’ it the way it’s ‘played’ (for lack of any other terminology). The years I healed in PvE, Dungeons and Raids were not the most Stellar of my life. Nor were they stimulating.

And yes, I agree with that Defiant buff. There is no equivalent to it on the PC side of the game. And while no- we shouldn’t have every deck stacked in our favor- having that particular Ace up your sleeve is a little hinkey to me.

@OP
You write a post stating that you want a ‘dedicated’ healing class – yet you yourself don’t choose to play one. Why would you force this on the player base as a whole, if it isn’t even what you would play? I don’t understand the lack of logic.

Devildoc.6721:

I personally love the weapon based skill system and weapon swapping, only thing I’d change about it is make each weapon have a pool of available skills and allow you to select 2-4 skills (autoattack stays the same) from that pool of say 12 skills. This would also allow you to map your weapon skills in your desired order. I agree with this gripe and have friends who literally quit the game when Guardian greatsword keybindings were swapped on them, ruining their muscle memory for the skills.

While I don’t exactly share your enthusiasm for only having few abilities available at a time, I do think your suggestion is an excellent one, and would improve the game experience A LOT for someone like me!

Select weapon(s), then pick your 4 skills from the pool of skills the weapon(s) have. A simple and elegant improvement that works well, while staying entirely within the boundaries of what GW2 is! This would restore the sense of having a measure of control over your setup that I feel is sorely missing.

Perhaps we could all agree to sign this request, and someone could forward that request to the devs? Make a new thread about it, if you don’t like this one!

tovadaun.6304:

@OP
You write a post stating that you want a ‘dedicated’ healing class – yet you yourself don’t choose to play one. Why would you force this on the player base as a whole, if it isn’t even what you would play? I don’t understand the lack of logic.

I stated I want more diverse gaming archetypes. I stated I don’t like to play the thief archetype either, but that I respect that it belongs in a game in spite of my personal preferences against it. It’s the same thing with the healer archetype, even though I only like to play it in mixed form, not as a dedicated healer.

Many people have noted that there ARE possibilities to play more support or healing-oriented builds in GW2, and that is correct. But (and that’s a big but), such builds are not needed, and not very competitive. When the best choice is to be a DPS, well guess what players will be?

A well-known truism in game design theory is, if the players aren’t playing the game as intended, then the game is poorly designed. Because the players are RATIONAL, and if the game does not incite proper behavior, then they will not act the right way.

“The right way” in this context might be translated to “making full use of the complexity and potential of the game mechanics”. After all, the devs put these complexities in there, so it could hardly be their intention that everyone ignore them, and just DPS zerg instead, right?

But it is not the players’ fault if they don’t play support styles in GW2, it is the game system that fails to reward such play styles sufficiently, and that rewords DPS zerging instead.

Even Devildoc, who disagrees with much I said, stated this:

“When I say there’s flaws to the game, I’m not meaning the weapon/skill system, I’m just talking about the meta of all dps that is caused by weak heal scaling, low base survivability, and the fact that everything is intended to be dodged”

You see, by REBALANCING the game, the “all DPS meta” Devildoc speaks of, could be made to go away!

If that happened, then I could L2P an Elementalist or a Guardian in the kind of team support role that I prefer to play. But as it is, this is not a viable style to play in. It would always be better for me to just drop the idea of support, and go all-out DPS instead.

I did not ask for dedicated healers staring at health bars, I asked for a few more viable play styles, hopefully including one I’d enjoy personally.

The fun thing is, I’m standing in the doorway here, ready to leave the building. I’m done with this game. But when Devildoc made his suggestion of a skill pool for weapons, my interest was piqued, and I thought if that was the case, I’d be severely tempted to play some more. And if the balance was adjusted so that support styles became viable, then WHAM! GW2 would be my game again!

I really hope the devs do something like this.

Mike.7236:

Devildoc.6721:

I personally love the weapon based skill system and weapon swapping, only thing I’d change about it is make each weapon have a pool of available skills and allow you to select 2-4 skills (autoattack stays the same) from that pool of say 12 skills. This would also allow you to map your weapon skills in your desired order. I agree with this gripe and have friends who literally quit the game when Guardian greatsword keybindings were swapped on them, ruining their muscle memory for the skills.

While I don’t exactly share your enthusiasm for only having few abilities available at a time, I do think your suggestion is an excellent one, and would improve the game experience A LOT for someone like me!

Select weapon(s), then pick your 4 skills from the pool of skills the weapon(s) have. A simple and elegant improvement that works well, while staying entirely within the boundaries of what GW2 is! This would restore the sense of having a measure of control over your setup that I feel is sorely missing.

Perhaps we could all agree to sign this request, and someone could forward that request to the devs? Make a new thread about it, if you don’t like this one!

Exactly what I said but better put, however, an obstacle will be dual weapons. And dual skills. For most classes, it woukd be 2-3 for one weapon, 4-5 for the other. For Thieves, it would be 2 for main hand, 4-5 for offhand and we’ll, 3 wouldn’t change unless they also expanded to say 5 variants.

folly dragon.4126:

Mike.7236:

Devildoc.6721:

I personally love the weapon based skill system and weapon swapping, only thing I’d change about it is make each weapon have a pool of available skills and allow you to select 2-4 skills (autoattack stays the same) from that pool of say 12 skills. This would also allow you to map your weapon skills in your desired order. I agree with this gripe and have friends who literally quit the game when Guardian greatsword keybindings were swapped on them, ruining their muscle memory for the skills.

While I don’t exactly share your enthusiasm for only having few abilities available at a time, I do think your suggestion is an excellent one, and would improve the game experience A LOT for someone like me!

Select weapon(s), then pick your 4 skills from the pool of skills the weapon(s) have. A simple and elegant improvement that works well, while staying entirely within the boundaries of what GW2 is! This would restore the sense of having a measure of control over your setup that I feel is sorely missing.

Perhaps we could all agree to sign this request, and someone could forward that request to the devs? Make a new thread about it, if you don’t like this one!

Exactly what I said but better put, however, an obstacle will be dual weapons. And dual skills. For most classes, it woukd be 2-3 for one weapon, 4-5 for the other. For Thieves, it would be 2 for main hand, 4-5 for offhand and we’ll, 3 wouldn’t change unless they also expanded to say 5 variants.

Yeah, dual skills for thieves would be the tricky part of that idea, but doable.

I think THAT adjustment to the weapon skills would be abetter core to base an expansion on than raising the level cap, for sure.

While I do now see where you’re coming from on this, I have this to say on the Zerk Mentality:
Yes, the rewards need to be better balanced and everything that’s been stated. Yes, Absolutely!
However- you need to look at the root cause of the behavior. I’m having the same kind of ‘root cause’ household fight w the Hubby (PvP should NOT be removed from WvW! Ha!)
The root cause -from what I’ve personally seen- comes to these things:
1: Massive amounts of hours speed/farming runs through dungeons/fractals
—This leads the many to believe that ‘If I have a glass-cannon I can just DPS the mobs down faster than they can one-shot me’ and be through the run faster, and getting through the run faster means that shiny drop at the end and a whole (what?) 30s?
2: Ignorance of how Stats are not only applied, but utilized, by the general average majority Player
— There’s not a whole lot of min/maxing going on. And I personally LOVE THAT. I hated having to rely on elitistjerks for some HolierThanThouEndAllYouMUSTOrElseBuild. However there’s a limit to the lack of knowledge Player’s should have about ‘X’ stat gives ‘x’ end result. If there were better information readily available, I (would like to) think that the Stat Diversity would shy away form the Zerk Mentality.
3: COST. On my server anything but Zerker gear is through the roof. This makes Players go Farm instead (either to Craft it themselves or the endless loop of Dungeon Runs for Gear). (now see #1) And when the redirect of See #1 isn’t applicable, it’s because they’ve found some new Event to exploit instead of make new gear it seems…

So, yes, there are flaws. Every game will have them. Every*thing* will have them.
Yes, there are a great many we can touch our fingers to and say -‘Dot’- this needs to be fixed. But there are some that seem to think that burning down the house to kill the spider is OK. What they don’t get- while they’re setting the drapes on fire that lil bugger has made a break for the neighbor’s house. (like the ones who want to take PvP out of WvW… ./facepalm)
btw, in case there is any doubt, that first bit up there? that was me, apologizing. that’s generally as fuzzy as it gets.

I don’t think I’ve ever gotten emotionally invested in a quickbar. I have my bars set up the way I want to make them easier to use, but that is only relevant because there are so kitten ed many different powers I have access to and have to use on a regular basis in those games.

There is no point in having all that when you only have 10 things.

Would it be nice if they finally gave us the UI customization they had once promised, and that was readily accessible in GW1? Yes. But this one still suits me well enough.

tovadaun.6304:

yes, there are flaws. Every game will have them. Every thing will have them.

A wise observation!

I wonder though, have people actually suggested PvP should be removed from WvW, or did you just make that up?

My faith in humanity hinges on your answer.

I agree to your sentiment partially lately but think the problem could easily be solved by simply giving us new trait lines or abilities to find out in the world.

In other words, what your “archetype” is becomes more than just your profession or weapons but gets some flavor from factions in lore, or specific quests that will reward players with different abilities.

An easy way to do it would be to create unlockable trait lines in this fashion. Say you want to go full healer than there would be a specific quest line or content to unlock this trait line.

Perhaps the abilities don’t even change but the traits make you heal allies. Such as using your heal skill heals a targeted ally or perhaps even all your weapon skills turn into healing skills for allies—an example would be my mesmer healer can create a portal that heals allies that use it, or I can shatter illusions on allies to heal them.

I don’t know what servers are full. I’m on Tarnished Coast, and as soon as I leave a city or Queensdale, I’m lucky to see 5 people on a map.

My big issue is that PVE builds are routinely destroyed in the name of PvP balance.

People constantly make the incorrect accusation that the professions are the problem in PvE. It is not. The problem is PvE design, which trivializes anything but power housing through content.

Leave the professions alone. Build content around the professions, not vice-versa. I’m sure they have enough data to know exactly how to revamp each dungeon to make each role that they created, and that they banked their entire PvE system on, viable.

Tom Gore.4035:

PwnsFroggles.7561:

I’m hating all of these people that say go back to wow. I also want a profession like that. Everyone who is saying that has never played wow and sees it that if you have a healer, the game is wow. I played wow for 4 years. I like the way guild wars feels but there are some things wow did 10x better.

Your opinion. I’ve played WoW and I seriously don’t want this game to be like WoW. If I want to play a WoW-like game, I’ll just playe WoW, thanks.

I completely agree, do not make gw2 like WoW. WoW was lame anyways, who wants to go back to the old ways?

Mike.7236:

The one greatest flaw with GW2, is that it doesn’t support a sufficient number of different play styles, or gaming archetypes.

I stopped reading after this sentence… sigh

Mike.7236, from the way you write I’d assume that you are an intelligent and educated person and I’m just going to assume that you’re an informed player. If this is true than you have, before buying and investing time into GW2, read announcements, reviews etc. Undoubtly, while informing yourself about the game you were planning to buy and play, you read that this game wouldn’t have traditional roles such as tank and healer. Possibly you even read the statements that explained that it wouldn’t be possible to play any class as healer or tank however you bent it, because you can’t actively heal other players and aggro doesn’t work that way.
Now, you say you always liked to be a healer in games, so it can’t be otherwise than that you felt a little bit of uncertainty when you heared that there wouldn’t be healers in GW2. You tried it anyway and now found out that you miss being a healer. That’s perfectly ok. It’s also ok that you like GW2 for other reasons and you would very much like to have the option of playing your preferable role in a game you actually like.
But what you need to realize is that the way it is, GW2 is a failed experiment FOR YOU. You tried to play a MMO without healers and found out that that isn’t what you want to have. Accept that, but don’t argue that GW2 should become something it was never intended to be.

I don’t want to tell you that you should leave and play something else. That’s something that you have to decide for yourself. But I can tell you that months before the release, during the height of the hype, I told people that around 50% of all people who’ll buy GW2 will be disappointed of the game and the two main reasons would be the lack of item progression and the lack of the classic roles of tank and healer.
Now, the way servers are still middle to high, I guess I overestimated the percentage, but it still explains the complains you found on metacritic. Of cource, few of the overwhelmingly positive reviews you can find on metacritic explicitely mention the lack of the holy trinity, but it still stands to reason that way over 3 million people bought GW2 and despite its advertised lack of tanks and healers, give it the highest meta-critic score of any recent MMO releases.
So, what I’m trying to say is, that although you and a significant number of others, would like to have tanks and/or healers in GW2, it is not a general flaw of the game, it’s a feature than many many others like or accept and that’s not going to change.
Suggesting to change a core feature of the game is a waste of time.

Lol…you want a healer?

Play Engineer and run around with med packs, or even better go gaurdian mace an shield, create symbols that heal, and make them larger and specialize in healing power, or a warrior with banners that grant regen over a larger area, or go elementalist and specialize in water.

You want to run tank? Create a warrior or guardian and specialize in toughness vitality and/or healing power.

You want to be dps…well that one is obvious…

If you’re not happy with any of the above then make somethin different or please go back to WoW you can play for free up to level 20.

Also Anet already stated new traits, skills, etc. etc. would be released round the end of 2013 maybe later i dunno…but they stated that a couple days ago.

You make some good points, but there are reasons why there is no dedicated healer in GW2, and they are very good reasons. I do not ever want to see a dedicated healer in this game.

Mike.7236:

A few specific things you should work towards:

1. There should exist a class that can heal and cleanse others.
2. Some classes should be throttled by different kinds of resource management.
3. Some classes should have all abilities available and not need to switch between sets.

My only response is to offer friendly encouragement that you to play the game further and give it more of a chance. Your first two points here make it very clear that you haven’t spent much time in the game:

1. Guardians and Elementalists excel at precisely the play style you outlined in your post (damage/control/healing). Other classes can be successful at it as well. Remember that just because there isn’t a dedicated healer archetype doesn’t mean you can’t create an effective healer within the existing system.
2. Thieves have initiative, which is exactly the type of resource management you’re talking about. While the basic skills are typically “throttled” with timed cooldowns, all eight professions have resource management involved in their class mechanics. The management is just often handled with timers rather than slowly regenerating blue bars.

I’m not sure what you meant by #3, but I think you’re saying that you want a class with access to all of its 50-some skills at the same time. With the current setup, that would be impossible to balance with the other classes, so I can’t help you there.

Honestly, I think your best bet is playing the Elementalist, which has access to 20 weapon skills at a time, can do very well with the play style you seem to enjoy, and using your attunement dancing effectively takes as much skill as any typical resource management you might want.

Hope this helps!

Greyalis.2309:

I agree to your sentiment partially lately but think the problem could easily be solved by simply giving us new trait lines or abilities to find out in the world.

In other words, what your “archetype” is becomes more than just your profession or weapons but gets some flavor from factions in lore, or specific quests that will reward players with different abilities.

An easy way to do it would be to create unlockable trait lines in this fashion. Say you want to go full healer than there would be a specific quest line or content to unlock this trait line.

Perhaps the abilities don’t even change but the traits make you heal allies. Such as using your heal skill heals a targeted ally or perhaps even all your weapon skills turn into healing skills for allies—an example would be my mesmer healer can create a portal that heals allies that use it, or I can shatter illusions on allies to heal them.

I think what we have is fine it’s just the healing power is weak. You can’t heal through the damage of high end PVE, you either avoid it or you die. Long cooldowns on your self heals coupled with fairly weak supplemental group heals that don’t scale well with healing power ensure that healing will always play second fiddle to maximizing dps. Blasting water fields is an exception simply because 1 field can be blasted several times in a row to heal people to full despite each blast finisher heal being quite weak (about 1800 healing, not exactly impressive when you get hit for 13k)

I am afraid my good sir that I have yet to find any flaws in this game design.

What I do tent to find often is the flaw of players trying to make this into a second world of warcraft :S
Just my share of thought.

Mike.7236:

tovadaun.6304:

yes, there are flaws. Every game will have them. Every thing will have them.

A wise observation!

I wonder though, have people actually suggested PvP should be removed from WvW, or did you just make that up?

My faith in humanity hinges on your answer.

I’m very sorry to crush your hope for the Human Race, Mike. Here it is, in all it’s horrific glorification:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Remove-PvP-in-WvW/first#post2492389

Silly Human… why would you walk into a War Zone and cry foul?
Oh, and yes, I do know he’s trying to be ‘cutsey’ and ‘sarcstic’. The posts he directly quotes are Not. This is a serious party foul to some.
I don’t get it. I don’t get the point of PvP, truthfully. That has no bearing at all that the argument ‘Remove It!’ is valid. Or even sane and rational.
If anyone cares, I’ve created a post with a Suggestion on how to make the OS more viable to all types of players, while maintaining it’s true purpose.
Sorry Mike, to pseudo-hijack your thread. And it is and isn’t a shameless plug for my own post. I’d really like to know what you all here think of the idea. Really.
How to Fix the Obsidian Sanctum (Really): here
Happy day, all!

tovadaun.6304:

I don’t get it. I don’t get the point of PvP, truthfully.

An interesting subject.

I believe online games are ALL about expressing the ‘social animal’ part of yourself, whether you play them cooperatively or competitively. Some prefer the coop part where people work together towards a common goal, some prefer the part where they fight others for their own goal. But both groups are basically there for the same thing: to achieve a feeling of raising their social status.

We do the same things IRL, but we tend to be very careful there, because we only have ONE real life, and if we fail there, consequences are severe.

Not so online! You can go all out, and still risk very little!

This doesn’t only apply to online games, it applies to all forms of human interaction online. Web forums are PvP zones too, in case you haven’t noticed. We fight with words ere, and attempt to come off looking as the winner!

Some people try to play the forum game cooperatively, attempting to help others achieve their goals, and try to achieve the common goal of greater understanding together.

But most are simply attempting to raise their own social status by attacking the others.

Some do it clumsily and only come off looking immature, like Tom Gore in this thread. His first post in this thread was actually deleted by moderators. Suffice to say, he failed to gain much social status by his attacks on me, because he is not a very skilled word warrior.

Others are more skilled with (s)words, and manage to play the game to their advantage. A good example is ASaturnus a few posts up. He speaks in an empathic, sensible voice, and climbs the social ladder with his veiled attack – he invalidates my thread by telling me it is pointless to express my opinion, hinting subliminally that it is immature to do so, while covering up the attack with a fatherly concern for my well-being.

That’s a skilled word warrior in action!

I don’t complain about it, I just point out what is really going on in a discussion such as this: people are fighting for social status. I’m no different myself, and neither are you. It’s just that you are a cooperative player, while Tom Gore is a bad competitive player, and ASaturnus is a good one.

I myself prefers a hybrid play style – I play cooperatively and competitively at the same time. I seek to hold a discussion and reach understanding on something (a common goal), and I often try to helpother people achieve their own goals. But I also fight people, my favorite weapon is IGNORE, a powerful counter-attack that leaves the attacker dangling in the air and renders his attacks useless. Another favorite counter-attack of mine is ENLIGHTEN, where I basically pull down an attacker persona and reveal his true motivations. My most powerful counter-attack, is to play both IGNORE and ENLIGHTEN at the same time, I do this by revealing someone without speaking to them directly, turning to a third party instead.

Just as I did with ASaturnus above!

I actually did this mostly to exemplify what I’m saying to you, not because I really felt he needed to be attacked. But my act of saying so to you is at the same time a follow-up IGNORE attack on ASaturnus, since it is equivalent of saying I don’t see him as a threat!

You see how this game is played?

To tie this to the discussion I’m attempting to hold here (mostly by myself though), consider the kind of personality I just showed here, I am someone who likes to support others and work together, but who is also a fierce warrior. I am, in gaming archetype terms, an aggressive support healer.

And as I said, I don’t feel I can fully express myself through my little GW2 Avatar. The game does not give me the tools I need to play the way I want. Some people keep telling me I’m wrong, and I could just do this or that, but as Devildoc has pointed out, things like healing scaling don’t really support such a play style.

I am also basically a reactive player, as you can see from the fact that my word attacks are counter-attacks. It is the same when I give support, I prefer to do so after the fact. This play style meshes poorly with support in GW2, since it is based around being proactive, not reactive.

And that’s where ASaturnus scores a direct hit: this game is simply not for me. I guess the thing I have to learn here, is that while I’m a skilled fighter who rises to the top with ease in most games, there are some games I’m poorly equipped for. It’s a humbling lesson.

For the record. I love the way this game runs.. I came from a class based MMO – it got boring on a character after a while doing the same thing, same role.. Here i dont have tht.

Again, you misunderstand.
I do not care for PvP. I never have, and never will.
It’s a personal choice.
I don’t duel in games that offer it.
I have no need to be violent towards the fellow next to me for ‘no better reason than they are there’ and refuse to be baited by some jerkwad just so he can gank me.
I don’t play this game as some kind of anon-Vendetta Mask that so many others do.
This Personal Life-Choice is based off of My Spirituality and My Core Fundamental Beliefs of how I myself should interact, respond to others, and co-exist.
My statement was- I Myself do not Chose to be a part of this aspect of the game. [The WHY in all honesty is none of you or any other readers here business, or I’d have posted the WHY] However, that as a Core Portion on the Game, and it’s Population- To remove this aspect of it is ludicrous. Just because I myself do not think it a good investment of my time, does not mean the 1000’s of Players who frequent the Mists don’t.
This was what that singular line was encompassing.
The thought process – Just because I don’t subscribe to your Opinion and View doesn’t therefore make your perfectly logic, rational, and reasonable point Invalid.-

As for the rest of this Thread, I applaud each of the small steps and bounds of faith you’ve acted and enacted to give not only the game, but others that posted here their due validation.

The world is quickly running out of individuals of like nature. It’s going to be a sad, dark future if this is not remedied.

Mike.7236:

Others are more skilled with (s)words, and manage to play the game to their advantage. A good example is ASaturnus a few posts up. He speaks in an empathic, sensible voice, and climbs the social ladder with his veiled attack – he invalidates my thread by telling me it is pointless to express my opinion, hinting subliminally that it is immature to do so, while covering up the attack with a fatherly concern for my well-being.

snickers Touché. You are a more intelligent opponent than I thought (not that I thought you dumb). While I actually wanted to make a valid point with my post, we both know that it would be dishonest for me to say that no attack on you at all was intended.
But to my defence, I felt challenged to attack by your opening post. The way you phrased your opinion makes it sound as though a core feature of the game, a feature the developers wanted for their game, that I wanted and that many others wanted, was just a mistake, a sillyness in fact. You berate those that thought having no healers in a game like GW2 was a good idea for being silly. At least, that is the impression I had. Thus, your claim that you’re only counterattack, isn’t entirely true either.

But then, as I said, apart from my more-transparent-than-I-thought attack, I did want to make a valid point and it still stands. Whether or not making your suggestion was immature, someone as intelligent as you knows that your chances of getting what you suggested are very slim. I have no desire to attack you any further. I know that you read and understood my post, that’s anything anyone can hope for on the internet.

Mike, i agree with the Slight restriction in skills, however that is not the MAJOR flaw they need to fix in this game… the MAJOR flaw that has been in this game since the beginning and that needs fixed is the targeting system… enough said.

HardRider.2980:

For the record. I love the way this game runs.. I came from a class based MMO – it got boring on a character after a while doing the same thing, same role.. Here i dont have tht.

Yes you do, everyone is just DPS.

Try running a “healer” in level 48 fractals, or a tank in level 48 fractals.

If you try, you’re as useless as teats on a bull.

ASaturnus.4980:

Mike.7236:

Others are more skilled with (s)words, and manage to play the game to their advantage. A good example is ASaturnus a few posts up. He speaks in an empathic, sensible voice, and climbs the social ladder with his veiled attack – he invalidates my thread by telling me it is pointless to express my opinion, hinting subliminally that it is immature to do so, while covering up the attack with a fatherly concern for my well-being.

snickers Touché. You are a more intelligent opponent than I thought (not that I thought you dumb). While I actually wanted to make a valid point with my post, we both know that it would be dishonest for me to say that no attack on you at all was intended.
But to my defence, I felt challenged to attack by your opening post. The way you phrased your opinion makes it sound as though a core feature of the game, a feature the developers wanted for their game, that I wanted and that many others wanted, was just a mistake, a sillyness in fact. You berate those that thought having no healers in a game like GW2 was a good idea for being silly. At least, that is the impression I had. Thus, your claim that you’re only counterattack, isn’t entirely true either.

Touché, right back at you…

The very act of expressing my personal gripes with the game as if they were UNIVERSAL TRUTH, is of course an opening attack in itself, and a claim of high ground for the fight. Such an opening move literally begs for a strong response.

ASaturnus.4980:

But then, as I said, apart from my more-transparent-than-I-thought attack, I did want to make a valid point and it still stands. Whether or not making your suggestion was immature, someone as intelligent as you knows that your chances of getting what you suggested are very slim. I have no desire to attack you any further. I know that you read and understood my post, that’s anything anyone can hope for on the internet.

I agree, you made a valid point, and I absolutely agree with you about it. My original suggestions were sort of valid in some parallel Universe out there, but I understand that they are not directly applicable in GW2. The problem is, I’m slightly off-center of the target group for this game – it was not really designed for my tastes.

This doesn’t mean everything I said was irrelevant, but it does mean someone more in tune with what GW2 is about will be better equipped to suggest improvements. That’s why I have repeatedly given full support to Devildoc’s suggestions; he is someone who understands GW2’s personality, and who can see ways to improve it that are not about turning it into something it was never meant to be. His suggestions are better than mine.

It was nice talking to you! I enjoy a good sparring, and I enjoy meeting people who are detached enough from their Ego to understand themselves and others from a more neutral perspective. It’s a pretty rare treat.

tovadaun.6304:

Again, you misunderstand.
I do not care for PvP. I never have, and never will.
It’s a personal choice.
I don’t duel in games that offer it.
I have no need to be violent towards the fellow next to me for ‘no better reason than they are there’ and refuse to be baited by some jerkwad just so he can gank me.
I don’t play this game as some kind of anon-Vendetta Mask that so many others do.
This Personal Life-Choice is based off of My Spirituality and My Core Fundamental Beliefs of how I myself should interact, respond to others, and co-exist.
My statement was- I Myself do not Chose to be a part of this aspect of the game. [The WHY in all honesty is none of you or any other readers here business, or I’d have posted the WHY] However, that as a Core Portion on the Game, and it’s Population- To remove this aspect of it is ludicrous. Just because I myself do not think it a good investment of my time, does not mean the 1000’s of Players who frequent the Mists don’t.
This was what that singular line was encompassing.
The thought process – Just because I don’t subscribe to your Opinion and View doesn’t therefore make your perfectly logic, rational, and reasonable point Invalid.-

As for the rest of this Thread, I applaud each of the small steps and bounds of faith you’ve acted and enacted to give not only the game, but others that posted here their due validation.

The world is quickly running out of individuals of like nature. It’s going to be a sad, dark future if this is not remedied.

I most definitely respect your choice, and your underlying spiritual convictions. In fact, I used to be very much like you myself – peaceful by nature, and not interested in harming a fly.

But then I made the life decision to ‘dirty my hands’ and get into the thick of the fight, I decided to engage people in combat on their own terms. I think I did this because I wished to interact more deeply with people around me so I could touch their hearts, even though they were not peaceful as I.

This was very hard at first. I practically cried over the harshness and cruelty to the fellow man I witnessed, and then we’re just speaking about playing PvP in WoW, lol!

But I learned to distance myself from my virtual self, not caring about getting my virtual teeth kicked in. And from this neutral position, I learned to fight effectively, first to stay alive, then to actually win. And then I found that I could TRANSMUTE the energies of conflict and fighting into a joyful dance with my opponents!

At this point, I was a terror on the battlefield, and I ground my enemies into dust. More than a few tears must have been shed by my opponents. But my mission was to introduce the concepts of RESPECT and CHIVALRY to the dog-eat-dog world of a virtual battlefield, and the only way to do that, was to be so good at the game I could teach this lesson, without losing the fight in the process.

If someone ran into me and recoiled in fear, I let him retreat, I didn’t kill him for the sake of it. But if he attacked me, I gave him a schooling. If he returned with three friends, I fought them all. If one of them was weak and an easy target, I went easy on him, so they could all dance the dance together. I made a point out of showing them respect through actions and emotes, for instance applauding an ‘enemy’ who did a good job.

But when the dance was over, I killed them all, to hammer home the point I was making – you can be a decent person without necessarily ending up a loser in life. It is my belief people go to “the dark side” because they are afraid they can’t measure up otherwise. The dark side is only “cool” because the villains keep winning! What better way to teach that the light side can win too, than to show it through example?

That’s why I kicked butt. And I had an AWESOME time doing it!

I’m not saying this to try to convert you into a PvPer, I just felt like explaining how I feel about it myself: PvP is an expression of dark energy and fear, but it can be transmuted into light energy and love. Detachment is the key – I think Buddha would have loved it!

Descending into darkness to bring some light there does come with the danger of losing track of why you’re doing it, and “falling” to the dark side yourself, so I don’t think it’s the right path for every light-oriented man or woman. I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone who doesn’t feel the calling.

Someone else might have brought this up, if so I apologize, but I’ve come to understand that the combat mechanic of this game is only fully realized when you work in team. Elder Scroll online copied it and called it “synergy”. (They even call dodging finess …URGH). But here, it’s known as combo (field/finisher/leap/projectile). Your 4 weapon skills can be devastating and beautiful when combined with your team member’s other skills. Say, as a mesmer, I put down null field or chaos storm or time warp and you as a warrior you summon battle standard or skill 5 on horn, and BAM! we’ll all get chaos armor (search Wiki for it)! So pretty and useful!

Also, for Gw2’s flaws, it more than made up by encouraging us to play together in pve. No kill steal or rage when someone takes away your kill or loots. You cut a tree? Fine by me, that tree is still accessible to me. You feed the cows? I can water the corn. There’s a giant boss? let me help you out. We’ll both have equal chance at random drop, and you’re not the only hero because you do all the dmg. We’re both heroes cuz we deal dmg and support each other in combat.

My point is that the game itself is NOT boring. It has so much to offer on so many levels! The only time i feel bored with this game is after I get done farming CoF or running around WvW for too long or too focused on map completion that I forget to look around in the open world, read the tombstones, listen in on conversations between NPCs, and search for jps. Have you come a crossed this NPC in this cave in Bloodetide coast that sometimes starts singing this beautiful song? My favorite moment of gw2 of all time. If that doesn’t keep you coming back, then …hey, we don’t have to play this game hours and hours on end. We can close it and come back days or weeks later to new contents. Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying go away if you don’t like this game. But I’m saying that for a $60 game with this much content without subscription, give it time to grow on you.

New contents every two weeks for the price…of FREE. No monthly subscription. New traits, new abilities are coming as well so you can look forward to that.

Anyway, how many characters do you have at 80? what professions? maybe consider looking up build guides online? Sometimes I get bored with my pink-haired Charr warrior, I would go play with Ele or mesmer or ranger (collecting pets across Tyria…how cool is that!).

I quit this game a while back after the initial launch when I started out as an Elementalist Asura exploring metrica province. I didn’t like the map. I didn’t like that I can’t just walk to vistas. I had to stop. But I came back with new attitude to explore different starting maps and classes, and now I’m quite happy with the game.