Guild Wars 2

Alright, I hope I start this off the right way.

I think everyone agrees that the current combat mechanics strongly favor direct damage over condition damage in PvE. Wether it’s intended or not, going for full (direct) DPS + knowing when to dodge carries one through almost every aspect of GW2 PvE. Add some reflects and a bit of condition removal and you’re set for hack’n slaying through everything.
Specing for anything besides raw direct damage will only slow down your party. I mean, there’s a reason why there’s so many “lf full zerkers or gtfo” (no offense, just the way many ppl use the lfg system, feel free to check yourself).
I did the maths on my Conditionmancer’s bleeds (and got them proven by the new condition damage indicator) – it’s just pathetic compared to direct damage.
One may not like that, but that’s just the way it currently is (ok, Tequatl was one step away from that by making critical hits useless against it).

Speaking about PvE Condition Damage, I see two major problems with it:
- stack-cap of 25
- conditions can not crit

I also see why this can’t be changed easily. If so, conditions would become totally op in WvW. Just imagine some Engineers and Nec’s spamming, let’s say 50 stacks of bleeding, each tick able to crit, and spread with epidemic in an enemy zerg- pure slaughter.

So here’s my idea of how to adress both sides- PvE players looking for a different and still viable and competitve playstyle and the PvP people:
Since you can’t change the condition damage itself without huge balancing issues (as said above)- simply change the mobs. I’m thinking of it this way:

Champions and Legendary foes already have the “Defiant” ability (or buff? debuff? call it the way you want)- so why not add something similar to all enemies? Let’s call it “Contingent” for now. I’m thinking of it this way:

- regular mobs: no change needed imo, current condition damage is already enough to mow through this “trash”
- veterans (bronze): get the “Contingent” debuff. Works like “all condition damage applied hits 33% harder than regular”
- lieutenants (silver): get the “Contingent” debuff. Works like “all condition damage applied hits 50% (or 66%) harder than regular and can crit (regular crit modifier only)”
- champions (gold): get the “Contingent” debuff. Works like “all condition damage applied hits 100% harder than regular and can crit (with the personal crit modifier)”
- legendary (purple): get the “Contingent” debuff. Works like “all condition damage applied hits 150% harder than regular and can crit (with the personal crit modifier)”

The name of this new debuff is surely debatable, so are the concret numbers of the amplified condition damage. But I hope you get the idea and give it a closer look, because I strongly believe in it being a rather simply yet pretty effective way for supporting build variety and giving players more valid options for PvE.

I love how the first thing you say is that you hope to start this right, and the first thing you do is wrong because you posed this suggestion as a question post, which it is not.

I have at least three different condition characters and none of them have had any trouble competing in PvE and getting whatever rewards they deserve, including elite bags from champions.

Meh, accidently activated the Q&A button.

It’s not about “I can’t do this or that”, I got all major achievements (including Dungeon Master) myself, it’s about equalitiy.
Just because you can do doesn’t mean that you are not in a disadvantaged.
And to be honest- 99,9% of open world fights are face-rolling easy, no matter what you’re running. Dungeons and Fractals are where it becomes interesting and where the difference starts to be significant.

Nash.2681:

Dungeons and Fractals are where it becomes interesting and where the difference starts to be significant.

Don’t forget world bosses. Even with only 10-20 people attacking something it has constant max stacks and yet you only see 1-2 tics of your own conditions.

I think we need to keep in mind that condition damage is very situational in what parts of the game it is effective. Also, conditions have secondary usefulness not considered when looking only at DPS (example: poison reducing healing effectiveness).

Condition damage builds are currently entirely viable for soloing in PvE, no matter what mob tier you’re fighting. Conditions may or may not do as much DPS as direct damage, but that doesn’t single-handedly determine a build’s viability.

Condition damage is also viable in small groups (such as dungeons). However, team synergy needs to be a consideration (don’t have five condition builds in the group) whereas with direct damage builds, you don’t have to worry about it.

Condition damage builds are not very viable in large groups in PvE, such as world bosses and guild missions. The stack limitations here are extremely restrictive, and need to be reworked. However, a damage increase buff for conditions wouldn’t necessarily be an answer, considering how quickly applied conditions are overwritten. The stack limitations on world bosses simply need to limit each player to 25, not limit the entire group participating to 25.

Condition damage builds are potent in WvW at the moment, as condition removal is nowhere near as easy as applying the conditions to a wide area (have to admit, Epidemic is an awesome skill), and the large-scale group condi removal that used to be available has been nerfed (example: Cleansing Water). I don’t think conditions need a nerf, but I wish condi removal was slightly easier to trait for and/or provide in large group settings.

TL;DR:
1) for world bosses, limit each player to 25 stacks, not 25 stacks for the entire group
2) make condi removal slightly more available for WvW combat

The sad thing is, changing the stacking limitation would cause server lag, thus slowing the game according to what I’ve heard as their answer to this. Still, this doesn’t change that when it comes to world bosses I have two absolutely useless characters. My third is coming (full power), but he’s a long way from world boss level.

Thx for contributing to this.

Wallace MacBix.2089:

Don’t forget world bosses. Even with only 10-20 people attacking something it has constant max stacks and yet you only see 1-2 tics of your own conditions.

True. I admit, I don’t have a clue yet how to bypass this without raising condition stack limits or giving every player his own stack (problems might be huge lag issues, see post above this one).

Vick.6805:

I think we need to keep in mind that condition damage is very situational in what parts of the game it is effective. Also, conditions have secondary usefulness not considered when looking only at DPS (example: poison reducing healing effectiveness).

PvE Mobs barely heal…

Condition damage builds are currently entirely viable for soloing in PvE, no matter what mob tier you’re fighting. Conditions may or may not do as much DPS as direct damage, but that doesn’t single-handedly determine a build’s viability.

Condition damage is also viable in small groups (such as dungeons). However, team synergy needs to be a consideration (don’t have five condition builds in the group) whereas with direct damage builds, you don’t have to worry about it.

Sorry, but this is plain wrong, the maths have been done over and over again. Ofc you CAN do everything with a condition build, but you will always contribute less to your party than a direct damage build, thus making you some kind of ballast for your party. Support, though it got buffed lately, is simply not more needed than before.
The fact that you CAN do it doesn’t change the other fact that you could do WAY better.

And I say it again- open world play can’t count as a reference here since 99,99% it doesnt really matter wether you wield a spoon or a mighty weapon. World bosses, I admit, are something special though, see Wallace Bix’ post. Though experience tells that it doesnt really matter what you do cause it ends up in a Zerg-Fest anyway.

Vick.6805:

Condition damage builds are potent in WvW at the moment, as condition removal is nowhere near as easy as applying the conditions to a wide area (have to admit, Epidemic is an awesome skill), and the large-scale group condi removal that used to be available has been nerfed (example: Cleansing Water). I don’t think conditions need a nerf, but I wish condi removal was slightly easier to trait for and/or provide in large group settings.

TL;DR:
1) for world bosses, limit each player to 25 stacks, not 25 stacks for the entire group
2) make condi removal slightly more available for WvW combat

Well, I started this is about Condition Dmg in PvE, not WvW or its removal, so I won’t comment on that since I consider it OT.