Guild Wars 2

By the way, THANK YOU FOR THE NEW FORUMS AN! Just wanted to put a suggestion in there.

I love WvW and spend as much time as I can doing it. Yes if my server is successful, I do accrue money which usually helps offset the ridiculous armor repair costs for dying.

However if my server happens to be getting beat bad, by an overwhelming zerg, the fact is that I’m going to be dying a whole lot more and probably losing quite a bit of money while I’m in WvW. I’m actually being encouraged, from a financial perspective, to leave WvW and not try to wrestle it from whoever is winning at the time.

In PvP, we are going to be dying more than we do in PvE. Can we just do away with the obvious money sink and get rid of armor decay in any PvP related events?

Thanks!
Tyrion

I agree, the armor repairs can get expensive.

If your world is doing well it’s hardly noticeable.
But when your world is losing… It can end up costing you money to do WvW.

So I totally agree.

Absolutely agree. There should be NO durability loss in PvP. Period.

I disagree. If there’s no durability loss, how do you counteract all of the “free” loot and money everyone gets for participating? Then the market would slowly flood and crash. Or the rewards would need to be kittened, and then the incentive to play is lessened.

The game requires money sinks. It HAS TO HAVE THEM or the game fails. simple.

The three biggest continual money sinks are…. (drum roll)
1 Repair
2 Way points
3 Siege Equipment (though badges can be used)

I think the choice was made in the manner that it was to mimic a real living economy. Things get worn over time and break and need replaced. If you are spending money on repairs you are keeping the economy in check along with the other ways designed for the economy to work.

FedEXguy.8362:

I disagree. If there’s no durability loss, how do you counteract all of the “free” loot and money everyone gets for participating? Then the market would slowly flood and crash. Or the rewards would need to be kittened, and then the incentive to play is lessened.

This. The armor repair is a moneysink to counteract the loot and rewards you get from WvW.

Cross.2574:

The game requires money sinks. It HAS TO HAVE THEM or the game fails. simple.

The three biggest continual money sinks are…. (drum roll)
1 Repair
2 Way points
3 Siege Equipment (though badges can be used)

1. While I agree that repairs are necessary, I do feel like they could perhaps remove them from WvW and reduce the amount of money you gain for taking a keep/tower/castle. Like others have said, when you are losing you are not making any money from capturing things and you are spending about 3-4 silver per death while getting steam rolled. Very anti-fun and more of a gold vortex than a gold sink.

2. I have no problem with waypoint costs in high level zones being expensive. However, I do think that the cost should scale with zone level. I shouldn’t have to pay 4 silver to go to metrica province to play with a friend.

3. I have about 1000 siege weapons from the doing the jumping puzzles every day you get 2 patterns per puzzle and up to 4 puzzles a day. It doesn’t take long to get a pretty sizable amount of patterns

As for what FedExGuy said about the incentive being reduced. I feel like karma and XP are still pretty good incentives w/o the money being there.

To Grant, karma and xp are good incentives, I agree. But you know people just love loot so much more

sidenote: the word I used that got censored to “kittened” was not one I’d expected to be censored. But it sure is funny that it was!

Please don’t “Kitten” my rewards lol!

Just to be clear, I understand that this game needs money sinks and I do not want the economy to be overloaded and top heavy. However, in PvE we have waypoints, armor repair, and harvesting tools, which in no way add up to the amount paid for armor repair, upgrades and seige in an average WvW session.

I would be more inclined to pay for upgrades to our camps and towers, if I wasn’t spending so much already on armor. Either way I am losing the money, but upgrades would be for something that actually makes sense.

Yes i dont get it they say a level2 can do WvWvW but how on earth would they ever afford the Repairs… facepalm

As I’ve already said, remove the repair cost or at least reduce it greatly (it’s PvP after all) and put in a waypoint cost. Your penalty for death is the time it takes you to get back to battle, that’s a penalty enough.

Armor breaking has no place in a pvp format.

Keep repair costs. Costs are needed to prevent muppets launching themselves into crowds for no downside other than the walk back.

The system rewards sucess and punishes failure.

The learning curve is faster with this incentive.

Agreed. WvW has more than enough gold sinks anyway. The sometimes ludicrously long walks back from the waypoint are enough to discourage overly suicidal behaviour. As it is now, when faced with the choice between a heroic death (such as luring a group of enemies away to save a caravan) or running away (leaving that caravan to get killed), the game actually punishes you for picking the more heroic option.

I agree. Repairs were fine in beta and low level, but now I’m losing a lot of silver.

I agree. Fact is that in WvW you die much more than in PvE. WvW is a type of PvP and dying is just part of every PvP. It just serves to punish players just because there are others who are better which is largely unavoidable.
There are a few more reasons why repair cost just doesn’t fit in WvW:
1. WvW is usually less based on skill and more on numbers so sometimes there’s not much you can do to prevent dying except fleeing for your life.
2. WvW (supposedly) evens out all players’ level. However, repair cost is so much steeper at level 80. This makes being level 80 a serious financial disadvantage since events give the same amount of money to all levels.
3. It discourages players of a losing world to fight back.

If they remove repair costs from WvW they should remove copper/silver rewards and loot drops…

I could understand excluding repair costs from Wv3 if the only rewards I received from it were Badges of Honor.

Since I do receive money and other loot that I can sell, I think repair costs should remain.

Agree, wholeheartedly. 0 durability loss for pvp deaths, please!

I completely disagree. WvW is a huge source of in game gold and repairs act to counteract that, but that’s not the main benefit of repair IMO. The main benefit in WvW is that the enemy can’t just keep getting back up on the spot after dying. The repairs guarantee that at some point people that are getting killed over and over during a siege have to go back to base. This means attackers cannot just keep ressing defeated comrades with no penalty whatsoever.

Personally, I like to have cheap items on the trading post and a lot less gold being thrown around because it’s being poured into money dumps. For a game where you can buy gold legally, the economy seems stellar at the moment and loving it!

try to not die a lot then.

Just make a injury debuff upon death ( -10% all attribute) and make it stackable.
Make a "medic at main keep that remove the debuff.
There we go, now we can save on repairs.

Xonal.5426:

If they remove repair costs from WvW they should remove copper/silver rewards and loot drops…

I spend far more on siege equipment and upgrades than I do on item repairs. My main issue with repairs isn’t that it’s expensive, but that it feels like you’re being penalized for being useful.

There may be no real answer to this problem. I think that repairs should remain, but that should only be necessary after a good number of deaths, not just one.

AGREED. Anet, in PvE, you punish people for dying. In WvW, you cannot control when you die, so you are essentially punishing people for playing WvW.

Zodack.6815:

FedEXguy.8362:

I disagree. If there’s no durability loss, how do you counteract all of the “free” loot and money everyone gets for participating? Then the market would slowly flood and crash. Or the rewards would need to be kittened, and then the incentive to play is lessened.

This. The armor repair is a moneysink to counteract the loot and rewards you get from WvW.

To get free loot, you need to be winning, and if you are winning, your equipment isn’t getting damaged. So the reasoning that damage repair is supposed to balance out the free loot fails. The people needing to repair aren’t the ones who get loot, and vice versa.

zombiemeerkat.5960:

There may be no real answer to this problem. I think that repairs should remain, but that should only be necessary after a good number of deaths, not just one.

This is what i think as well. Specifically, i believe the average repair costs for playing an hour of PvE and PvP should be roughly the same.

Since dying in PvP occurs much more often than in PvE, it should be balanced by lowering the chance of equipment being damaged on death from 100% to maybe 20%.

That way if you die five times as often in PvP than in PvE(actual ratio open to debate of course) the repair costs will be roughly the same.

Gold shouldn’t play any significant part in WvW. Everything should be done with supply. Upgrades and siege weapons should all just cost supply and the armor repair shouldn’t exist.

Another option is to increase badge drops and use them as the WvW currency.

Honestly, I just refuse to WvW. I go in and if we are losing, I end up with debt. That isn’t fun to me and I’d rather just not do it.

being killed by a player should not destroy your armor.. as simple as that. I also love WvW, but I just get poor from playing it

There shouldn’t ever be armor breaking in any form of PvP.

stax.3087:

To get free loot, you need to be winning, and if you are winning, your equipment isn’t getting damaged. So the reasoning that damage repair is supposed to balance out the free loot fails. The people needing to repair aren’t the ones who get loot, and vice versa.

This is pretty much the situation. Very quickly after the match starts, at least in every matchup we’ve been in, one server surges ahead and essentially throttles the other two servers. They make a lot of money and get a lot of drops. Everyone else gets a repair bill and a long return journey, during which time the winners are in a geographically advantageous position. Unless a significant resistance is mounted within a short time frame, a lot of players give up. If I log on and my server is being dominated, there is no incentive for me to play W3. When I have played, organised resistance has long since abandoned the struggle, and the rewards for taking small objectives only to draw regional attention from the strong are small. If you don’t relocate, they will find you and probably zerg you, and relocating is another very long walk for little reward, while they swiftly regain what you took. So, when I see an enemy completely own the W3 pie chart, I do something else. Unless the design intent is “whoever gains initial upper hand wins forever”, which seems unlikely, then the design isn’t 100% working. Mobility and time/gold investment are extremely important elements in the W3 equation, and are very imbalanced at the moment. Of course, within the next few posts I’m sure I’ll learn all I need to about W3 in the form of admonishments on whining from the ones with their boots on the throats of others. That is a view I understand, as my server mudstomped others at launch, until the W3-centric guilds switched servers to avoid long queues (which obviously and hilariously backfired when their new server started dominating), and W3 when you are unstoppable is highly profitable and just about zero fun. Now I know why resistance fell off a cliff after a short time. /rant

There has to be penalties for dying or being bad.
Just play safe or better.
Besides its just a few silver. You already spend a gold on porting another on repairs is not going to make any difference.

The issue is that the incentives are unaligned with the penalty for “dying or being bad”. Being at a disadvantage virtually wipes out the possibility of reward, and virtually ensures the possibility of punishment. In this instance, playing “safe or better”, changing the balance of risk, reduces the reward to trivial levels. Why would I spend long stretches of time running from camp to dolyak to sentry to camp for trivial completion rewards, and high certainty that discovery will result in my death? This may only apply to my own server, but since the big guilds left (and may actually have been crushing us at some point this past week), W3 is dead, and in the short and mid-term forecast I don’t imagine that will change unless an organised guild joins the server. The value difference for an hour spent in Eternal Battleground versus an hour spent roleplaying a lumberjack should be stark and inviting on the side of the exciting, competitive gameplay mode, and for a lot of people, it just isn’t there.

Orlandu.3781:

This is pretty much the situation. Very quickly after the match starts, at least in every matchup we’ve been in, one server surges ahead and essentially throttles the other two servers. They make a lot of money and get a lot of drops. Everyone else gets a repair bill and a long return journey, during which time the winners are in a geographically advantageous position. Unless a significant resistance is mounted within a short time frame, a lot of players give up. If I log on and my server is being dominated, there is no incentive for me to play W3. When I have played, organised resistance has long since abandoned the struggle, and the rewards for taking small objectives only to draw regional attention from the strong are small. If you don’t relocate, they will find you and probably zerg you, and relocating is another very long walk for little reward, while they swiftly regain what you took. So, when I see an enemy completely own the W3 pie chart, I do something else. Unless the design intent is “whoever gains initial upper hand wins forever”, which seems unlikely, then the design isn’t 100% working. Mobility and time/gold investment are extremely important elements in the W3 equation, and are very imbalanced at the moment.

At the moment there’s really no incentive for a team to come back at all…and this isn’t just about repair bills. What do you get from being in the lead? A few ticks towards % increases on random buffs that you will barely notice. The skins on badge gear are meh and the titles are just a grind fest. If you’re winning there’s a few gold in it and you get to enjoy crushing people. But why struggle back when all it will gain you is a few more ticks towards random bonuses and most likely more money out of your pocket.

What can be done to fix this? It’s not my job to come up with the solutions, but it’s clear that the rewards need to be more significant or an added incentive for the teams that are losing. You could even add extra benefits to the losing server so they have an easier time getting a foothold, like trebs being built automatically in the spawn that can reach the first tower or supply appearing in the spawn when you control nothing. Could even increase event rewards for the disadvantaged servers. Even something as simple as achievements focused on making comebacks (preferably with titles) would be a step in the right direction. A server should want to win, not become discouraged from even competing.

Fewzz.3861:

Yes i dont get it they say a level2 can do WvWvW but how on earth would they ever afford the Repairs… facepalm

The cost to repair level 2 equipment is next to nothing. At level 2, you could be running in broken armor anyway and it wouldn’t make much of a difference.

One of many reasons I dont like WvW.

Abaregi.1659:

There has to be penalties for dying or being bad.

PvE yes, not PvP in any form.

I think the item repair is just fine for WvW. If you keep dying, CHANGE your strategy. The item repair and lack of a lot of waypoints is the penalty for dying.

If they got rid of item repairing, you really wouldn’t care much about dying would you? I was in the Eternal Battlegrounds and our server had 0 points capped. I did not die that often. It is all about strategy. Stop throwing yourself at the enemy.

FedEXguy.8362:

I disagree. If there’s no durability loss, how do you counteract all of the “free” loot and money everyone gets for participating? Then the market would slowly flood and crash. Or the rewards would need to be kittened, and then the incentive to play is lessened.

You’ll be making alot more loot in PvE. I mean really ALOT more. Since there you can nonstop kill mobs.

In PvP you have to kill a player. Even if you kill alot you won’t get that much loot.

I see your point, but having to farm PvE to WvW is simply wrong. The WvW is a pretty big moneysink itself if you buy siege engines and objective upgrades. No need to get punished for dying. Just makes the difference of winning vs losing server even bigger and forces the losers to quit the fight cause it gets too expensive.

Bad design.

The Dude.6942:

You’ll be making alot more loot in PvE. I mean really ALOT more. Since there you can nonstop kill mobs.

In PvP you have to kill a player. Even if you kill alot you won’t get that much loot.

I see your point, but having to farm PvE to WvW is simply wrong. The WvW is a pretty big moneysink itself if you buy siege engines and objective upgrades. No need to get punished for dying. Just makes the difference of winning vs losing server even bigger and forces the losers to quit the fight cause it gets too expensive.

Bad design.

I must be playing it wrong, then. Because winning or losing, I’m making a good chunk of change. I’m sure I could run PvE and make a bit more, but I find Wv3 pretty fun.

at level 80 with mostly exotics for gear I ALWAYS lose money in WvW, winning or losing. The income from events is negligible to 20s+ repair bills. We are also expected to pay for keep upgrades, siege weaponry etc. Items simply should not lose durability unless you die to pve factors while in WvW. Disincentivizing pvp is never a good thing imo.

Spent a full day in WvW this weekend, between keep upgrades, seige weapons and item repairs (with item repairs being the bulk of cost) I came up almost a gold and a half in the negatives. That’s a HUGE money sink to enjoy competitive WvW pvp. Sure I could just not contribute to my side and -maybe- break even, or at least spend substantially less if I only paid for item repairs, but that isnt being a very good team player either.

It’s something I really hope they reconsider

Solution: Make it so that you are able to repair items that have been damaged in WvW with badges (say 1 or 2 per item). But of course, only the equipment that was damaged in WvW, not damaged equipment that you had coming from PvE.

Odd – i play WVW a ton, and can say i dont know if i die more than i do in PVE -

if you are playing smartly, rolling with a guild, and retreating when u need to – this shouldnt be an issue (repair costs).

honestly, i think i die more from falling over the cliffs on the way to the bay or the west keep than i do in actual battle. lol…

Fewzz.3861:

Yes i dont get it they say a level2 can do WvWvW but how on earth would they ever afford the Repairs… facepalm

repair costs go up as you level, at low level they’re pretty much null..

having not repair cost will just make players in wvw to go and die like np, you know you have to repair something be more careful, and if you end up wasting all your money in just repairs…YOU ARE SIMPLE BAD, saying you dont see the enemy is not an excuse, or if you pc is broken, etc.

That sink has to be there, you gain a lot of money if not die in wvw by capturing tower/castle/keep/etc, now you are saying you can jump to the battle with no worries but with only benefits, stop being bad.