Guild Wars 2

I just think the lack of solid roles doesn’t really do much for this game. No class really feels super different from the last in role aside from flavor bits. I think that if they added a direct healer class and re-tooled the buff and attribute system a little bit to make support more worthwhile, we could have combat that is a lot deeper. Right now, i feel that since there is little to no depth in actually grouping and battling with other players beyond zerg DPS and blanket buffing /condition removal…it doesn’t give much longevity to the content. I just think the current class balance and the paradigms we have are too homogenized. It doesn’t really create a fun combat experience for me because everything is so indistinct and ineffectual (traits don’t really matter, everyone has the same skills and steamrolls everything regardless. There’s no difficulty factor because mobs aren’t designed with a player skill set like in GW1. It’s all really braindead.)

Some people say it’s the skills, some the monster encounters…i say it’s a combination of both these and the fact that there is no healer class to balance and work the skill system around. As a result, the current skill system is very homogeneous and boring..relatively generic traits for all classes and very little that actually defines the classes and makes their roles stand out in combat.

I realize that i will probably get a lot of fanboy hate from this, but this is how i feel. I just think the combat is boring and shallow. Grouping with other people doesn’t feel like anything more than heaping on DPS and blanket buffs. It doesn’t really feel like tangible teamwork because of the lack of roles for me.

I really feel like the game as a whole would benefit from a more structured class system, seeing as i’m already seeing " GLFM Warriors only" messages. I don’t think removing the trinity was a good idea for team integrity, depth, or accessibility reasons…it pretty much fails on all fronts and it’s driving me away from the game. I want to enjoy it, the combat just feels shallow and grouping is redundant because of the lack of roles and how the skills / traits are designed. It’s all very homogenized in my opinion.

You already have the ability to change your gear/skills to reflect a true healer role if that is what you want to do.

They have one. I play it.

It is called a water elementalist with a staff. I bet you could also play one with a guardian (though they are preferred to be tanks) or the Engineer (which I haven’t really played around with yet.)

Wanna play support. Go mesmer. They have a lot of tricks to play with.

Adding a dedicated healing classes would break the very ideal of removing the holy trinity. Any class can be an effective healer support from Elementalist to thieve. All be it some professions are better suited to do this than others all can essentially do it.

all classes have healing capabilities the healer would fell useless and i would hate it if they do take the healing skills of the other classes. this class is not very well thought about. sorry

Thieves are probably the worst “support” or healer but still, every profession has some way to play all the roles. Direct healing is also a bad idea, it just makes people go back to the old ways of “heal the tank, make sure he don’t die”. Like Captain Seyo said, water staff elementalists have great healing skills, w/o even being full spec in healing power. Guardian have just numerous ways to AoE heal. The healing system is fine as is, I’d rather be managing my own health bar than managing others and getting scolded for not doing flawlessly.

You don’t already have the ability to do this because if you spec full healing power or whatever, that gimps you. There isn’t a complete support role. It’s all homogenized. The staff ele has what, 2 skills on 20 and 40 second cooldowns that heal? I’m talking about an active healer paradigm that deepens the combat by allowing for mitigation and pressure circumstances giving more weight to decision making and team play. Right now, you just throw out all the blanket buffs and blow your cooldowns. Having a heal every 20-40 seconds doesn’t make you a direct healer.

A healer class would do nothing but good for this game because it would allow for deeper combat and more challenging encounters. More importantly, it would set roles and give reasons for players to actually group and play together in synergy rather than mindless zerg DPS.

You say it would do nothing but good, I say it’d do nothing but make people wait around for healers before trying to do anything. Minimalizing the requirement for specific builds is one of the best things this game has to offer. I realize for some things, people already DO seek out specific builds, but I think the best thing that can happen is lessening that need as much as possible.

lothefallen.7081:

You don’t already have the ability to do this because if you spec full healing power or whatever, that gimps you. There isn’t a complete support role. It’s all homogenized. The staff ele has what, 2 skills on 20 and 40 second cooldowns that heal? I’m talking about an active healer paradigm that deepens the combat by allowing for mitigation and pressure circumstances giving more weight to decision making and team play. Right now, you just throw out all the blanket buffs and blow your cooldowns. Having a heal every 20-40 seconds doesn’t make you a direct healer.

A healer class would do nothing but good for this game because it would allow for deeper combat and more challenging encounters. More importantly, it would set roles and give reasons for players to actually group and play together in synergy rather than mindless zerg DPS.

Maybe you missed the whole aspect of removal of the Trinity system. If the current system of how groups work bothers you so much, you don’t have to continue to anger your self.

Also i hate people that have to deem what they feel is beneficial to a group and what isn’t like you are trying to do ( oh wait little birds I will feed you )

You don’t already have the ability to do this because if you spec full healing power or whatever, that gimps you.

This game is not all about DPS, this game allows you to play your character the way you want to, If I want to spec all support with conditions and boons I can if I want to spec into healing power I can. Nothing in the game say’s I have to be dps, yet your implication says I have to be. My Ele is S/D and Staff in 30 water and earth and some wind and fire. I can heal like no tomorrow, and keep groups up doing so, I can also put out damage with ease, who are you to tell me I am wrong?

There is no trinity meaning THERE IS NOT DEDICATED HEALER, TANKS, OR DPS I hope the caps makes that easier to read for you. When you introduce the trinity system you create a que for dungeons as people will specifically ask for healers or tanks while the rest of the people that choose to play dps wait in a long time consuming que.

I am not sure if this is clear enough for you but that is as clear as I can put it. If you want your precious Trinity system back there are plenty of MMO’s out there that still have it, no one is stopping you.

Kaimick.5109:

lothefallen.7081:

You don’t already have the ability to do this because if you spec full healing power or whatever, that gimps you. There isn’t a complete support role. It’s all homogenized. The staff ele has what, 2 skills on 20 and 40 second cooldowns that heal? I’m talking about an active healer paradigm that deepens the combat by allowing for mitigation and pressure circumstances giving more weight to decision making and team play. Right now, you just throw out all the blanket buffs and blow your cooldowns. Having a heal every 20-40 seconds doesn’t make you a direct healer.

A healer class would do nothing but good for this game because it would allow for deeper combat and more challenging encounters. More importantly, it would set roles and give reasons for players to actually group and play together in synergy rather than mindless zerg DPS.

Maybe you missed the whole aspect of removal of the Trinity system. If the current system of how groups work bothers you so much, you don’t have to continue to anger your self.

Also i hate people that have to deem what they feel is beneficial to a group and what isn’t like you are trying to do ( oh wait little birds I will feed you )

You don’t already have the ability to do this because if you spec full healing power or whatever, that gimps you.

This game is not all about DPS, this game allows you to play your character the way you want to, If I want to spec all support with conditions and boons I can if I want to spec into healing power I can. Nothing in the game say’s I have to be dps, yet your implication says I have to be. My Ele is S/D and Staff in 30 water and earth and some wind and fire. I can heal like no tomorrow, and keep groups up doing so, I can also put out damage with ease, who are you to tell me I am wrong?

There is no trinity meaning THERE IS NOT DEDICATED HEALER, TANKS, OR DPS I hope the caps makes that easier to read for you. When you introduce the trinity system you create a que for dungeons as people will specifically ask for healers or tanks while the rest of the people that choose to play dps wait in a long time consuming que.

I am not sure if this is clear enough for you but that is as clear as I can put it. If you want your precious Trinity system back there are plenty of MMO’s out there that still have it, no one is stopping you.

You have no earthly clue…

lothefallen.7081:

Kaimick.5109:

lothefallen.7081:

You don’t already have the ability to do this because if you spec full healing power or whatever, that gimps you. There isn’t a complete support role. It’s all homogenized. The staff ele has what, 2 skills on 20 and 40 second cooldowns that heal? I’m talking about an active healer paradigm that deepens the combat by allowing for mitigation and pressure circumstances giving more weight to decision making and team play. Right now, you just throw out all the blanket buffs and blow your cooldowns. Having a heal every 20-40 seconds doesn’t make you a direct healer.

A healer class would do nothing but good for this game because it would allow for deeper combat and more challenging encounters. More importantly, it would set roles and give reasons for players to actually group and play together in synergy rather than mindless zerg DPS.

Maybe you missed the whole aspect of removal of the Trinity system. If the current system of how groups work bothers you so much, you don’t have to continue to anger your self.

Also i hate people that have to deem what they feel is beneficial to a group and what isn’t like you are trying to do ( oh wait little birds I will feed you )

You don’t already have the ability to do this because if you spec full healing power or whatever, that gimps you.

This game is not all about DPS, this game allows you to play your character the way you want to, If I want to spec all support with conditions and boons I can if I want to spec into healing power I can. Nothing in the game say’s I have to be dps, yet your implication says I have to be. My Ele is S/D and Staff in 30 water and earth and some wind and fire. I can heal like no tomorrow, and keep groups up doing so, I can also put out damage with ease, who are you to tell me I am wrong?

There is no trinity meaning THERE IS NOT DEDICATED HEALER, TANKS, OR DPS I hope the caps makes that easier to read for you. When you introduce the trinity system you create a que for dungeons as people will specifically ask for healers or tanks while the rest of the people that choose to play dps wait in a long time consuming que.

I am not sure if this is clear enough for you but that is as clear as I can put it. If you want your precious Trinity system back there are plenty of MMO’s out there that still have it, no one is stopping you.

You have no earthly clue…

Great response I am glad I could help you understand why this is a flawed suggestion.

Your suggestion would require an entire revamp/redo of the combat system though. If there’s a healer class, then there needs to be a tank and dps class, and everyone needs something like a dodge/block/parry chance instead of a guaranteed dodge based on skill. Also, a specific healer class will break a lot of fights, like many of the fights in Fractals are more movement/strategy based, not meant for you to heal through.

You can argue back and forth, but there’s no “right” answer. The current system is great though. It’s nothing like how you described o.O because there’s quite a lot of fights that requires more than just mindlessly mashing buttons. And most of the fights require full party cooperation and strategy. It’s not like where you can run dungeons with just a great healer and tank who does the hard work while the lesser teammates just DPS mindlessly lol. GW2 fight system is pretty intuitive and hardly boring and shallow. (I try to make my responses as logical/reasoning as possible).

How does having a dedicated healer allow for more interesting mechanics? Just curious.

As it is though, you can quite easily spec for primarily Support on every profession:

Warrior

Healing Shouts, Shouts, Banners, Warhorn, Most of the Tactics Trait line

Guardian

Virtues, The Virtue Traitline, A ton of skills

Engineer

Elixirs, Some Kits (Elixir Gun, Med Kit), Alchemy Trait line

Ranger

Spirits, Some Pets (Brown Bears have “Shake It Off!”, Fern Hound has Regenerate), Warhorn, Healing Spring, “Search and Rescue”, Signet of Renewal, Spirit of Nature

Thief

Stealth (gives allies a chance to recover / wait for heal to come off cooldown, traited gives regen), Venomous Aura, Thrill of the Crime, Bountiful Theft

Elementalist

Wide range of Combo Fields, Conjure Weapons, Rock Solid, Water Trait Line

Mesmer

Vigorous Revelation, Restorative Mantra’s, Focus Skills, Null Field, Portal, Veil, Illusion of Life, Phantasmal Disenchanter, Mass Invisibility, Time Warp

Necromancer

Transfusion, Deathly Invigoration, Mark of Blood, Putrid Mark, Reaper’s Touch, Locust Swarm, Well of Blood, Plague Signet, Spectral Wall, Well of Power, Grim Spectre (Lich Form)

Then there’s Racial Skills:

Charr – Battle Roar

Humans – Avatar of Melandru

Sylvari – Healing Seed

Norn – Roar (Bear Form), Howl (Wolf)

Asura – Summon Power Suit, Summon D-Series Golem,

And then we got Combo’s:

Dark + Projectile = Lifesteal
Ethereal + Blast / Leap = Area / SingleChaos Armour
Fire + Blast / Leap = 3x Might / Fire Armour
Ice + Blast / Leap = Area / Single Frost Armour
Lightning + Blast = Area Swiftness
Smoke and Blast / Leap = Area / Single Stealth
Water + Anything = Heal or Regen

There are plenty of ways to be the guy who supports your team without needing to just stand there filling their health-bars up.

Exactly the same with Control.

You know i think they kinda killed the aspect of playing with people by removing the trinity.

There is no cordination.
Your basically doing your own thing, while other people do there own thing, and sometimes, someone is kind enough to do support.

But this is not all the time.

The holy trinity held players together.
Why? cuz u needed class X to play with class Y to compliment class Z.
This means Class X can not do half things Y and Z can do in a horrible mess which makes you scream, do you know how to build a character right?

I really do wish the trinity system was reimplimented in this game.
It would give more reasons for people to play together and not drift off in there own world and solo 75% of the hours in this game.

Naekuh.7925:

You know i think they kinda killed the aspect of playing with people by removing the trinity.

There is no cordination.
Your basically doing your own thing, while other people do there own thing, and sometimes, someone is kind enough to do support.

But this is not all the time.

The holy trinity held players together.
Why? cuz u needed class X to play with class Y to compliment class Z.
This means Class X can not do half things Y and Z can do in a horrible mess which makes you scream, do you know how to build a character right?

I really do wish the trinity system was reimplimented in this game.
It would give more reasons for people to play together and not drift off in there own world and solo 75% of the hours in this game.

So why you bought this game?
I played different games with the trinity and i really enjoy em all, But i choose this one exaclty for the absence of it, and not only me i suppose.

It really just seems like a lot of the people arguing back and forth in this thread are all one-sided with narrow viewpoints.

Although it’s true that some classes can use builds better than others, I don’t see how the holy trinity keeps “people together” and “gives more depth” than what GW2 has to offer right now. This new system grants freedom. So many classes can build in so many ways, the way you want to…

And a healing class can only heal.

And on the “no coordination” part… what? This is simply not true. There is coordination if you go out and try to coordinate. There can also be no coordination if you don’t look for it. Do you always run with PUGs? Have you tried running with friends or guild members? This entire game is promoting these aspects in a way where it wants you to get social and interact with players. If there is no coordination then that is the party’s fault, not the game.

This game gives you the tools to make builds and play whatever you want in dungeons, it’s up to you if you want to utilize them or not, it is also up to you to “coordinate” with party members. The trait refund fee is low for a reason.

I bought this game because:
1). I’m fan from GW1
2). There is no ’’Healers’’ ’’Tanks’’ ‘’ Support’‘, because i don’t want to be dependent of other people. Don’t even try to change this game into something ‘’ ordinary ’’.

lothefallen.7081:

? I’m talking about an active healer

Go play games that are meant to have healer, we don’t want them, we don’t need them, think more, play smart, be wise and creative, we don’t need healer!

Naekuh.7925:

The holy trinity held players together.

No, it most certainly did not.

1. We need a healer.
2. No healers online?
1. Nope.
2 Well, Mr A. you’re gonna have to log your healer.
3. Yeah, but I wanted to play X character
1. We need a healer.
3. Can’t we find some random?
2. I’m not playing with some scrub.
1. Just log your healer.
3. ……………….

Yeah, players really have fun and they are really held together by being forced into certain roles.

Halanna.3927:

Naekuh.7925:

The holy trinity held players together.

No, it most certainly did not.

1. We need a healer.
2. No healers online?
1. Nope.
2 Well, Mr A. you’re gonna have to log your healer.
3. Yeah, but I wanted to play X character
1. We need a healer.
3. Can’t we find some random?
2. I’m not playing with some scrub.
1. Just log your healer.
3. ……………….

Yeah, players really have fun and they are really held together by being forced into certain roles.

OH really?

It sounds like a typical day for me.

1. Bring your gaurdian.. we need a heavy + support.
2. I want to bring my warrior… i want to do dps.
3. No bring your gaurdian….
4. What about my Necro? she can heal and has pets, we can just pug a gaurdian.
5. No i dont trust pug gaurdians who dont heal nor share virtues.. can u please bring out your gaurdian.
5. But but but im tired of gaurdian.
6. Please~ We are gonna fail without your AH Hammer guardian.
7. logging onto gaurdian

So how does your example differ from mine?
Im still asked to bring out something i dont like to play because its the closest thing we got to something which the game said didnt exist.

So instead of a real / true healer… i got something which tries to heal, does an OK job, but wasnt expected to be a true healer.

Some of us like playing healer… because well healer is expected NOT to do DPS.
However YES some classes can be a dedicated healer, but i dont know if u guys ever did dungeons being the only heavy….

Its brutal… and u really wish there was a dedicated healer… or a dedicated tank for that matter.

And nothing in this game can tank like a typical MMO tank.
In the later later end games, there are many things which can 2-3 shot even the most buffest of AH guardians.

It boils down to taste because you can argue either way for trinity and for what GW2 has. Both have pros and cons, but I can definitely say fights in GW2 aren’t “solo” and “mindless”. In fact, I can argue that GW2’s system forces more cooperation between players so you need everyone on the same page or else you might wipe in a certain fight.

I just don’t think GW2 is going to completely rewrite its fight system because it’s going to upset the majority of the players who do love the current system.

Naekuh.7925:

You know i think they kinda killed the aspect of playing with people by removing the trinity.

There is no cordination.
Your basically doing your own thing, while other people do there own thing, and sometimes, someone is kind enough to do support.

But this is not all the time.

The holy trinity held players together.
Why? cuz u needed class X to play with class Y to compliment class Z.
This means Class X can not do half things Y and Z can do in a horrible mess which makes you scream, do you know how to build a character right?

I really do wish the trinity system was reimplimented in this game.
It would give more reasons for people to play together and not drift off in there own world and solo 75% of the hours in this game.

You havn’t played many dungeons here then. Some of them require full coordination to succeed or you and your team are at risk of wiping or rage quitting. Defiant isn’t the best example but if the boss has a heal or large aoe that you NEED to interupt you gata coordinate who removes that defiant. If you want someone controlling with immobilize to keep a melee boss away that is something warriors can excel at and even thief with sb+stealth.

You’re healing yourself, you’re staying alive by your self, but you work with boss mechanics to take it down not dancing in circles throwing out dmg. I run a full healing power support range with warhorn and with how many buffs I put out, it can be quite impressive. They don’t have a full dedicated support stat set atm but its not impossible to play a “healing” role or “support” role if you’re willing to look at what your profession has to offer.

They have to nerf guardian bonus. problem solved. No healers

A dedicated healer class is not needed. Any number of classes in the game can already play as a healer, not as effective as what your asking for but effective enough for what the game calls for. Adding a healer class won’t do anything to encourage team play dynamics either.

If your friends and guildmates are demanding that you play a specific class you have the right to tell them no. If they insist you can insist right back that they should be the one to play that class, you’d be surprised how often this tactic can end the argument.

The current dynamics requires the whole group to coordinate strikes. While the Holy Trinity dynamic doesn’t require any coordination… Tank attacks mob and holds aggro on everything, Healer focuses on keeping the Tank alive, meanwhile DPS can attack anything and everything, no coordination required for them what so ever. Move into GW2’s system… no tank, no healer, no DPS… everyone has various playstyles and mechanics that give them their own unique roles… each class is reliant on everyone and no one… so while you can go off uncoordinated, it benefits you and everyone else much more to coordinate. Plus many events and dungeons simply can’t be done without coordination outside of a mass zerg rush. If there are a lot of players at the event then it does turn into a zerg rush, but when the numbers are few you start to see how much coordination these events actually do require, and it’s a lot.

No dedicated healers, thanks. The egalitarian system we have now is perfectly fine. The last thing I want to see is a profession that becomes a necessity. And yeah, it would. I hope to never see “LF healz” in GW2 map chat. Ever. You know where you can go if you want that (notmentioninganynamesWoW).

All professions are self-sufficient. Take better care of yourself and you won’t need someone to do it for you.

TheDaiBish.9735:

How does having a dedicated healer allow for more interesting mechanics? Just curious.

As it is though, you can quite easily spec for primarily Support on every profession:

Warrior

Healing Shouts, Shouts, Banners, Warhorn, Most of the Tactics Trait line

Guardian

Virtues, The Virtue Traitline, A ton of skills

Engineer

Elixirs, Some Kits (Elixir Gun, Med Kit), Alchemy Trait line

Ranger

Spirits, Some Pets (Brown Bears have “Shake It Off!”, Fern Hound has Regenerate), Warhorn, Healing Spring, “Search and Rescue”, Signet of Renewal, Spirit of Nature

Thief

Stealth (gives allies a chance to recover / wait for heal to come off cooldown, traited gives regen), Venomous Aura, Thrill of the Crime, Bountiful Theft….

Christ, this. Everyone has to actually for once help themselves and think about, “How might I help my party” instead of, “LOLZOMGDPS” or “LOLZOMG’MAHEALER”

I think a better understanding of the game’s roles would benefit your perspective.

GW2 doesn’t need a healer, you just want one.

Naekuh.7925:

Halanna.3927:

Naekuh.7925:

The holy trinity held players together.

No, it most certainly did not.

1. We need a healer.
2. No healers online?
1. Nope.
2 Well, Mr A. you’re gonna have to log your healer.
3. Yeah, but I wanted to play X character
1. We need a healer.
3. Can’t we find some random?
2. I’m not playing with some scrub.
1. Just log your healer.
3. ……………….

Yeah, players really have fun and they are really held together by being forced into certain roles.

OH really?

It sounds like a typical day for me.

1. Bring your gaurdian.. we need a heavy + support.
2. I want to bring my warrior… i want to do dps.
3. No bring your gaurdian….
4. What about my Necro? she can heal and has pets, we can just pug a gaurdian.
5. No i dont trust pug gaurdians who dont heal nor share virtues.. can u please bring out your gaurdian.
5. But but but im tired of gaurdian.
6. Please~ We are gonna fail without your AH Hammer guardian.
7. logging onto gaurdian

So how does your example differ from mine?
Im still asked to bring out something i dont like to play because its the closest thing we got to something which the game said didnt exist.

So instead of a real / true healer… i got something which tries to heal, does an OK job, but wasnt expected to be a true healer.

Some of us like playing healer… because well healer is expected NOT to do DPS.
However YES some classes can be a dedicated healer, but i dont know if u guys ever did dungeons being the only heavy….

Its brutal… and u really wish there was a dedicated healer… or a dedicated tank for that matter.

And nothing in this game can tank like a typical MMO tank.
In the later later end games, there are many things which can 2-3 shot even the most buffest of AH guardians.

Sounds like you need to get new friends/ Guild Mates. Seeing as I have ran Arah Path 2 with all Engineers and for the most part ran semi smoothly. Get better friends that don’t dictate the way you play, just cause your a push over doesn’t mean we need to have the Trinity back in the game. Grow a spine and tell your guildies or friends NO I am playing my Warrior end of story.

Naekuh.7925:

OH really?

It sounds like a typical day for me.

1. Bring your gaurdian.. we need a heavy + support.
2. I want to bring my warrior… i want to do dps.
3. No bring your gaurdian….
4. What about my Necro? she can heal and has pets, we can just pug a gaurdian.
5. No i dont trust pug gaurdians who dont heal nor share virtues.. can u please bring out your gaurdian.
5. But but but im tired of gaurdian.
6. Please~ We are gonna fail without your AH Hammer guardian.
7. logging onto gaurdian

So how does your example differ from mine?

Your example doesn’t exist, for starters.

At least not in the normal world. Very few people actually demand a specific class in their group for their dungeon runs. And the only sorts of groups that demand a warrior or guardian are the sorts of players you don’t want to run with anyways, because they have little-to-no actual skill of their own and are depending on the Guardian to save them from their own poor performance.

I was just running Fractals earlier this morning with a three Ranger group and no Guardians, which is supposedly impossible by your logic because everyone’s always demanding a Guardian. We bashed through the entire run with no problem, because all of our players were skilled and had run the dungeon multiple times before. They knew what to expect and it took very little spoken coordination to run, because we knew what to do and how to support each other.

If your group demands a Guardian and Warrior for healing and DPS, then that’s a red flag that some members of your group are not very skilled, and it’s time to bail before you waste a few hours on a failed run.

This suggestion is completely unnecessary.

Heck, I’ve done FoTM with 3 mesmers, done a run with 3 thieves, even did a run with 3 warriors with no problems (the mesmers were actually fun, every boss one of them just threw down time warp). We are given a set healing slot for this exact reason, to no longer rely on ally heals. Take the example where your group demands a guardian. Now lets say they believe you are going to sit there, and strictly heal them, what happens if they die? Do they scold you for not doing your “job”? Most groups in other MMOs I played did get dramatic about these things and it lead to rage quitting and other problems quite often.
I did enjoy the trinity system along with many others, but the removal of it was great. You no longer need any specific profession to do a dungeon or event, which is a gift that should not be taken advantage of. No more waiting for a “Tank” or “healer” to advance in content, you just gata play smart and understand how things work.