Idea: Getting feedback BEFORE sweeping changes
Agreed. Look at all the rage around ascended gear. Look at all the rage around one time only events.
Had ANET tried to gather feedback first, they rage would have come early enough for ANET to back off. But, now that ANET has put development time into them, backing off means they have to push on or throw that investment away. So they push on and the rage gets stronger till it becomes a rage quit.
Agreed. Look at all the rage around ascended gear. Look at all the rage around one time only events.
Had ANET tried to gather feedback first, they rage would have come early enough for ANET to back off. But, now that ANET has put development time into them, backing off means they have to push on or throw that investment away. So they push on and the rage gets stronger till it becomes a rage quit.
Simply change the stats on this new ascended armor to match exotics and there would be no problem at all, but I guess Anet like it when all their fans flame them?
Nope. I don’t agree with the OP at all. The biggest problems introduced into an already released MMO always seem to come from the vocal minority of players in forums. The latest upcoming changes to GW2 appear to not be an exception to the rule. Why would any company host a poll that might result in bad changes and be forced to respond with, to use the OP’s words, “you asked for it”? Anet would be better served if it didn’t read these forums at all; if it just stated as a matter of policy that anything said on these forums will not be used to guide game development.
(edited by pdg.8462)
Why would any company host a poll that might result in bad changes and be forced to respond with, to use the OP’s words, “you asked for it”?
That won’t happen unless:
– ANET makes the polls binding on themselves.
– ANET makes a poll asking if something they don’t plan to add is a good idea.
I can’t see either of those conditions being true.
Nope. I don’t agree with the OP at all. The biggest problems introduced into an already released MMO always seem to come from the vocal minority of players in forums. The latest upcoming changes to GW2 appear to not be an exception to the rule. Why would any company host a poll that might result in bad changes and be forced to respond with, to use the OP’s words, “you asked for it”? Anet would be better served if it didn’t read these forums at all; if it just stated as a matter of policy that anything said on these forums will not be used to guide game development.
The point of a poll is so that the vocal minority does not get a significant say regarding policy. Putting it in the launcher would mean everyone who plays the game gets exposure, not just those that frequent forums.
Right?
How can that have decided to add a new tier of gear because it’s “what people want”? Given that they haven’t actually requested people’s opinions, how do they know what we want?
SoE have finally been knocked off the top spot
in the list of developers I have the least faith & trust in.
Congratulations ArenaNet!
in the list of developers I have the least faith & trust in.
Congratulations ArenaNet!
Agreed. Look at all the rage around ascended gear. Look at all the rage around one time only events.
Had ANET tried to gather feedback first, they rage would have come early enough for ANET to back off. But, now that ANET has put development time into them, backing off means they have to push on or throw that investment away. So they push on and the rage gets stronger till it becomes a rage quit.
much agreed personally I’m on the fence, once the upgrades here I’m not playing anymore, I see no reason to play when every once in awhile all my time and effort is just nullified, why bother when I’m not being rewarded for all my previous work personally I wouldn’t care if they just ook the game down, took the time to make the gear/economy not WoW and then put out that update. I honestly got the game because I thought it would be GW not kittenin WoW.
Colin Johanson:
“The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than
other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items
have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of
accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to
make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those
who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who
don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”
What are you a jock?…. get out, This is nerd landia, where nerds gather!
This game has strayed from it’s mission statement so drastically that is has become just another WoW clone with better quest system. It’s the biggest grind I have played in a while. I have come from playing zelda 1 lately as well as vindictus and if Arenanet is going to treat me like this, lie to me and simply only cater to the elite, vocal MINORITY who keep pointing fingers saying we, who do voice our opinion are the minority. Good luck. Did you see what happened to Nintendo this generation? the promised motion controls. They did not deliver. Look at how the sales died for both Wii, 3DS and don’t expect much from wthe WiiU.
If a company promises A and does not deliver and deliberately does B consumer backlash will KILL them. Turning around and pulling a 180 is NOT the way to go when it comes to updating or fixing problems. You will alienate all your customers who have bought into your marketing and gues what: they won’t pay a red cent for anything.
Anet has striked thrice now, with their initial lies pre-release, their lies when marketing Halloween and now this.
You think you are so smart saying it’s all fine? Keep dungeons brute forceable with exos and spamming of same techniques? keep gear treadmill? add even more grind for legendaries so you can make more money? So be it.
This game has been bleeding customers left and right and Consumerism wil happen.
Word of mouth is more powerful than any commercial and we will boycott the game. Most of my friends quit and are telling people to stay away already. I am the only one who is trying to keep his faith in Anet, but they keep kicking me in the shins.
Good luck Arenanet. You are not fooling anyone I know anymore.
I will direct them straight to Vindictus, since it has much more visceral combat, is alot more team oriented and is actually FUN to play. So it doesn’t ever feel like a grind.
Let’s keep the discussion to the topic at hand, hmm? Do you think implementing a system (besides forums) to get better player feedback is good, do you think a poll is good or not. Let’s keep away from discussions as to whether the game is good or not to another thread.
On a side note, I personally agree with a DR. However I know the majority of people are not. shrugs My won suggestion would have strayed from my own preference. This is not a bad thing.
If we had ingame surveys and a launcher that provides actually useful information, then getting feedback would not be solely forum driven. A lot of people don’t bother with forums because they just want to play the game. So deliver the feedback INTO the game. We already have an ingame browser, namely the trading post.
Why not use the technology to bring ingame surveys for feedback?
They already have the infrastructure to create in-game surveys, we saw it during the beta events. It wouldn’t hurt anything to get the players’ opinions.
On the other hand though I would really like if the players could hold off on freaking out about changes that haven’t even happened yet.
Both sides suck today.
[SFD] – Maguuma
It’s the biggest grind I have played in a while.
I almost cried laughing, thank you.
Getting to 1-80 is a joke. (Friend did it in 4 days and they have a life)
Getting max gear, is a bigger joke. (Friend did it as soon as they hit 80)
Comparing GW2 to WoW is the biggest joke of them all. The only thing grindy in this game is getting a legendary and you’re not forced to do this.
Player opinions? What? Who needs that kitten?
WoW is successful lets mimic them get a piece of the pie.
I highly doubt any designer actually in touch with gaming made the asinine decision to implement something like this.
Straight up corporate greed.
Getting to 1-80 is a joke. (Friend did it in 4 days and they have a life)
Getting max gear, is a bigger joke. (Friend did it as soon as they hit 80)
I don’t disagree with you but your friend seems to be faster than average.
[SFD] – Maguuma
They already have the infrastructure to create in-game surveys, we saw it during the beta events. It wouldn’t hurt anything to get the players’ opinions.
I was not counting in the beta thing because there have been reports and concerns that their survey was never submitted. Had something to do with packets sent, etc. But yes, we clearly saw they had the ability to pull it off. Problem was a good amount of people who just skipped on this.
Having a survey of the magnitude we speak of… should either not be easily skipped or not skipped at all. This is the only way to get a REAL good sample size of data.
Having said that:
Vocal minority? The problem we are currently facing is of a vast MINORITY of players who have been hitting a so called progression wall. I fear the game is about to be trimmed badly for the rest of the community just to please them few. And what is really sad is… they have the ways and means to give BOTH kinds of players their fair share.
Back to topic:
Getting feedback data before launching an update is a double edged blade. It largely depends on the margin of data you acquire as well as the type of content you are questioning the people about. This can go bad but also can go well. It is really tricky to decide.
Getting to 1-80 is a joke. (Friend did it in 4 days and they have a life)
Getting max gear, is a bigger joke. (Friend did it as soon as they hit 80)I don’t disagree with you but your friend seems to be faster than average.
I know people who have done it faster. The main point is even if you’re slow, it’s not a grind.
Getting to 1-80 is a joke. (Friend did it in 4 days and they have a life)
Getting max gear, is a bigger joke. (Friend did it as soon as they hit 80)I don’t disagree with you but your friend seems to be faster than average.
I know people who have done it faster. The main point is even if you’re slow, it’s not a grind.
YOU sir clearly weren’t a gw1 player
What are you a jock?…. get out, This is nerd landia, where nerds gather!
Getting to 1-80 is a joke. (Friend did it in 4 days and they have a life)
Getting max gear, is a bigger joke. (Friend did it as soon as they hit 80)I don’t disagree with you but your friend seems to be faster than average.
I know people who have done it faster. The main point is even if you’re slow, it’s not a grind.
YOU sir clearly weren’t a gw1 player
YOU clearly aren’t as good at gw2 as me, so? Does it matter, we’re here to play GW2. Now stop getting personal and talk about GW2. You didn’t tell me why it’s not a grind yet, I’ll be waitin’
Getting to 1-80 is a joke. (Friend did it in 4 days and they have a life)
Getting max gear, is a bigger joke. (Friend did it as soon as they hit 80)I don’t disagree with you but your friend seems to be faster than average.
I know people who have done it faster. The main point is even if you’re slow, it’s not a grind.
YOU sir clearly weren’t a gw1 player
YOU clearly aren’t as good at gw2 as me, so? Does it matter, we’re here to play GW2. Now stop getting personal and talk about GW2. You didn’t tell me why it’s not a grind yet, I’ll be waitin’
It’s not a grind compared to wow or aion or anything of the like, you’re right, But for those of us who came from gw1, it’s a huge huge grind, and ur friend who did in 4 days I’m willing to bet had a little help from ppl giving him crafting materials or money or even just bought it with gems, 1-80 just by playing is ~80 hours, which is a grind (especially for people who’re used to gw1 where 1-20[lvl cap] was about 8-12 hours) Leveling was for the purpose of holding ur hand teaching game basics, after that you refined the specifics yourself, that is the philosophy it should be. Beyond that it’s just a grind. (in this case I’ll grant you up to lvl 40, so that means 40 levels of pointless grind)
What are you a jock?…. get out, This is nerd landia, where nerds gather!
(edited by RaGe.9834)
Whether its a grind or not compared to wow is like saying sea water is better than sewage water.
just because it is better doesn’t make it ‘good’.
The idea is to deliver a great multiplayer and single player RPG experience. Not to create a grindfest that is slightly less grindy.
It will still be a grindfest.
Yes salt water isn’t as bad as raw sewage, however you still die from drinking it. I would prefer a glass of clean water instead.
Disagree with OP. Some players will always freak out over everything – giving them the option to choose just means nothing ever goes live because there will always be someone who disagrees with it.
Polls are bad and lazy ways to get opinions, because people aren’t explaining their reasoning or holding a healthy discussion – it’s a perfect way to jump the gun and vote on an option because you think it means one thing when it’s actually something else entirely. Plus, some people have more than one account and there is the issue with bots and RMTs as well as the possibility of boycotts/griefing just to skew the poll results.
There is also the fact that they’d need to make a poll well before a feature is worked on (otherwise it’d be a waste of resources), which means something may get pushed to an update that is far in the future and then players, knowing the poll results, would keep asking about when X or Y is coming out (this already happens with planned bug fixes, but bug fixes are pretty important since they tie into existing content, so that’s pretty OK in my book). And then the complaints would shift from “this feature that’s going to be added sucks” to “why aren’t you adding X before Y”.
Letting the community shape the game completely is a terrible idea, overall. Player input after something’s gone live is great because people will have experienced it before giving an opinion. Letting players give input ahead of time is terrible because people keep freaking out over wording/thinking it’s something it isn’t, and because they could end up disappointed with the actual content of the update and then say it isn’t what they asked for.
Also, there is no way asking for player input would keep them from making big mistakes. You can only know something was a mistake after it’s gone live. An idea can sound bad in theory and be good in practice and vice-versa.
player input always seems to be a double edged sword. it works good in some cases, and not so good in others.
however with something as broad and with the potential of opening a pandora’s box as the new gear, they could have at least looked for some player opinions. if i remember correctly, i dont recall seeing many threads in here asking about gear progression, as it was something that seemed to be frowned upon by the development team and as far as i can tell this decision seems to come from people getting exotic gear “too fast.” something that really shouldn’t be an issue, at least its giving players a chance to get to a more level playing field.
what could work is if ArenaNet created some public test servers to see how broad changes could potentially play out in the live game. this is something that is done elsewhere and not only catches a lot of bugs and the likes but can also give a glimpse of how changes could play out.
thugged out since cubscouts
They already have access to a far better source of information. Monitoring and analyzing player activity is a far more valuable and far more honest source of information than throwing a poll on the launcher. Most people aren’t going to sit there and reflect deeply on the poll question(s). Instead they’ll click whichever multiple-choice answer appeals to them in that moment, or choose something random, or simply dismiss it because they just want to start the game.
More to the point, this isn’t a democracy. We’re free to tell them what we think we want. We’re free to agree or disagree with their decisions. We’re even free to stop playing. But it’s still not a democracy, nor should it be. Frankly, game design by outside committee is a horrifying proposition.
There are certain things that should not need to get feedback in before implementation. Stuff like new content, bug fixes, etc, do not need feedback before getting added in.
This is mostly for things that would be controversial issues; I’m sure they knew it would be controversial before they even added it in. Player metrics would not tell Anet exactly HOW controversial it would be; a poll would, and would be a valuable form of feedback.
Most people do not think deeply on anything. That doesn’t make their opinion less valued than those that do. Especially since this is a game and as thus, does not suffer any kind of odd moral ambiguities between data and implementation.
I disagree with the suggestion too. I only agree to it unless they make it compulsory poll in-game where the millions of players are in. They must make it where players must do the poll as a requirement to login in.
Forum doesn’t represent the majority.
I tend to see players turn into forum only to post something they’re displeased about. I hardly see anyone who’s happy about the content go to forums. Most happy players rather spend time in-game than giving the dev credits when it’s due. It’s like that in every mmo. When they’re pleased about something, most don’t express it in words in the forum.
If it’s an in-game poll, I bet all my gold that the majority accepts the ascended. It clearly shows that the majority accepts the ascended gears. I’m in Crystal Desert server. All of my guildmates accept it. They’re one of the most biggest and active guild in my server. Sometimes, I see positive chats in the world map in Lion Arch and Cursed Shore too. Even now, I’ve not seen anyone spoke negatively about it in-game map chat. A million positive in-gamers is more than hundreds of forum complainers.
They hardly visit this official forum, which is why they’re not influenced by the negative perceptions some raging players are spreading. It really shows players are easily influenced by negativity – people became zombified by adapting/influenced by another raging commentor complaints.
I’m all for a compulsory poll, but just because they’re not complaining in map chat doesn’t show an overall consensus. It was one of the tenants of the game’s design; I haven’t heard of anyone quitting because they maxed out exotic armor, either. Only seems to exist in the odd forum post.
Not only that, but the point is to get better feedback. It does not mean that if more than 50% or less than 50% of the player base wants something they will act/not act on it. It is simply better feedback for Anet to get a better general feel of the community, and not just a handful of select groups: QA testers, forum posters, etc are all extremely select groups of people and are not representative of a whole. And I somehow doubt metrics will do much to show specific opinions about things that don’t even exist in game yet.