Guild Wars 2

I am sorry for the length, but would hope that you will still take the time to read and consider this.

My greatest favor of Guild Wars 2 was that it would not be like any other game, especially in the combat system. Combat is essentially what the game is built on; you can do stories, quests, pvp, pve, wvwvw, etc. and combat is what gets you through to the end. Therefore how you design combat is a big deal! It felt like it would be different as I first played, the dodge mechanic seemed different even. However as time went on the game became less fun and I realized there is really not that much more skill in comparison to other games. I will show how:

First: overall use of the abilities
Literally “face-rolling” will not make you a winner. There is some discernment as when to use certain skills, but that is the same as every other game. What is the difference? Certainly there are differences on a micro level, but at the end of the day the skill required for both is the same. If the enemy runs away I press charge; if I am range I keep my distance and snare; if I am dying I heal; if they knock me down I break stun. These basic features are shared by different games. This is because the abilities are designed to be less strategic in a partnership of fighting (fight with), and so it depends on me as to how fast I can kill without getting killed (fight at). (More on this later.)

Second: Dodge acts just as another ability
Dodge works just like any other ability: You have a Cool Down before you use it, you use it 1-2 times just like using shield block, and you have traits that can decrease Cool Down. The skill to use dodge is just like any other ability. When I want to block with a shield, I push a button and wait for Xsecs, then do it again. Same thing with dodge, and same thing with other games. That is, I can avoid damage by pushing a button at the right time, and then wait for Cool Down and do it all over again.

Skill Summary
The skill in this is based on getting the right sequence of abilities at the right time and the basis of judgement is on Cool Down time. Take away the Cool Down, take away the strategy and thus the skill requirement. This is just like other games, and there is not that much skill involved. The purpose is therefore to kill your opponent by “face-rolling” or rather using what abilities you can at the right time because of CD.

What do I mean by “face-rolling?”
For starters, there are not many ability options. That means combined with the skill involved (which is not much) the basis for being a good player is: Traiting right; Equipping right (weapons); Picking right (utilities). After that, not too much can go wrong. Either your a causal player and will not improve anyways or you will be a serious player. Based on the player? Yes, but that has been the case for other games. Since it is all about how you trait, how you use your abilities is not that big of an issue.

Face-rolling is possible because it does not matter what abilities I use, eventually the enemy will die. There is never a time I need to stop and think, “what I am doing is ineffective, I need to do something else.” Here is why:

Continue…

Parry? Block?
Realistically every soldier learns to block and parry attacks, and not just how to swing their sword mindlessly at their opponent. It is their “bread and butter” to be able to know what to do to avoid attacks and strike while avoiding getting killed themselves. There is no such thing in this game except abilities. By that I mean all the problems previously mentioned, I can only parry, block, or dodge once and then wait for a CD. After I use such an ability, I can do nothing to defend myself and then go right back into the face-rolling to kill. Face-rolling is possible, because essentially there is nothing I can do to stop the enemy from killing me, all I can do is slow it down and kill them faster.

Skill?
Therefore I do not think there is as much skill in this game as there could be. The skill required is very similar to other games. A game of skill leaves possibilities such as these:
One verse three feels possible. This is not necessarily true, but a game of skill allows even the weakest of players to have a fighting chance. At level 80 I had no hopes of besting the others because of gear. As soon as I put gear back on, it was easy again. This does not sound like skill, and once again I can do nothing to stop their continual strikes of heavy damage. Which means, the player with the highest damage wins, which also means gear matters. Therefore I said “1v3 feels possible” because a game of skill would not have a general process of elimination. Three is not better than one as long as the one is far more skillful (not more gear, not higher level, etc.). Since however, there is no way to continually avoid damage, all a player can do is dodge twice and then take in three other players hits.
Survival is not limited. That is to say, whenever I choose an ability it should not be limited to a long CD. If I choose to parry or dodge, it should not be another 20 secs before I can do it again. Because, if I can not have a fairly continual option to avoid damage, then: 1v3 is never possible, gear will matter, damage will matter, and in the end skill matters little. At this point the reader is probably thinking, “well then the player would always parry or block, and nothing will ever get done.” Quite true, which is why I have a solution.

Rock, Paper, Scissors
This is actually an old idea, and I have seen it on a few games about ten years old (or more). I call it “Rock, Paper, Scissors.” This is how it works: Rock® is always better than Scissors (S), Scissors is always better than Paper (P), and Paper is always better than Rock.

My suggestion is to either take out the dodge mechanic and replace it with a parry/block mechanic, or to simply add a parry block mechanic (which may be easier). This will be the players “Paper.” It is not a twice used ability. It is a channeling ability, which allows the player to block every attack (except an AOE perhaps). The channeling will drain the endurance over time, but can still be used again fairly soon.

Next is Scissors (S). It is the only effective way to deal with some one who wants to be a turtle in his shell (P). It is an ability which breaks the channel for a small duration as to allow the normal flow of damage once again. (S) only works if the enemy is using (P), if not then it is a wasted strike. It is also not superior enough in damage to be of use in any other circumstance, because Rock will always be superior to it.

Rock is the standard damage. It is the sum of all the damaging abilities except the (S). It is of course useless as long as the enemy is using (P). Yet if the player is deciding to use (S) for damage or else in hopes that soon the enemy will use (P), then (R ) will overwhelm it.

Continue…

You are either using R,P,S. As such, there are no Cool Downs to the uses of these, or at least none so significant as 5+secs (utilities can be a different matter). That way, it is not about using abilities at the right time and then face-rolling. It is about a constant careful consideration of which ability to use at what time. This means players need to pay more attention to the enemy and what he is doing, instead of face-rolling all the abilities… wait for their dodge… face-roll some more… dodge, heal… face-roll some more…

Since CD is not an issue, neither is the strategy going to be based on CD. Players are not going to burst all their damage, and then hold out or run away while waiting for the CD and do it all again. Rather, players will need to actively use their abilities, and determine not by CD, but by the circumstances of the moment. Players will not be fighting ‘at’ their target, but will be forced to fight ‘with.’ I cannot just throw all my damage out in the open without first checking my enemy.

This will also be more compatible with the 5-skill weapon set. Because each ability used will have its unique function to the battle. Instead of: This one hits hard, this one bleeds, this one cripples…(I know, just face-roll them all for max damage!) It would be that each are needed to help determine the battle. One of the five will always need to be (S) the other four do not necessarily need to have an (R ) function.

Traits can also help improve R-P-S. (S) can have an extra 2 secs of disability capability. (P) Can have faster endurance regeneration, or even retaliation while channeling. (R ) Is normal and is already traited for. These will give players more active roles because pvp and pve will depend on effective use of R-P-S, while not having a “tank” or “healer.” Also, healing will not be a problem, but can actually be significantly decreased if not cut off entirely (except for boons perhaps).

Final Word
Now, I am not saying that there is no skill in the game, nor am I saying that you can literally face-roll and win. Yet, in comparison to other games, I find the skill required to be structurally the same. Three players can carelessly face-roll and kill one player, and it does not have to do with skill. Therefore I present this alternative to the combat system.

This idea of course will turn the game upside down and will require plenty of work to reform. But, it will make it fun to play (as long as other changes are still being made), and require skill to execute. I am actually tired of this game, there has been too much attention on balancing when I am still looking for it to be less boring. Stop balancing a bad system, and start making it more fun. I am still having the same simple problems with playing my character. It has been months while your attention has been on adding… 2D game additions. I do not want to play Mario, I want to play GW2. Please redesign the combat to be more fun and then start balancing.

Ok Just finished.

now correct me if i’m wrong i’m trying to understand this. You’re stating that the current design for combat is key mashing or face rolling, and that you would like a more structured design where we have the option to use abilities that can counter others. As in the Rock paper scissors.

So instead of just key mashing while ontop of someone, the target could block(Rock) and I would need to reply with an ability related to paper ? Instead of continuing to faceroll, Also the removal or reduction of cooldowns to make combat seem more instant instead of long waiting times between abilities.

The second time reading then I had skyrim in my head.

I actually never played Skyrim, so I do not know what your referring to.

this kind of combat system is what i prefer to be honest, certain skills used to block others. you used a blast? I through up a shield, you put up a shield I used a piecing shot etc

“This kind…” as in what I am suggesting or as it is?

I’ve read it all before you ask and honestly, I don’t know what you are all about.

I do understand where are you coming from, you said it yourself, you’re bored with it.
But realistically, a redesign of the combat system is not a viable option.

But even if they did that, lets break your suggestion down to the essentials, you want a Rock Paper Scissors kind of play with “less limited” dodge, how would people play?

Rolling around 95% of the time and then trying to get in that R, P or S hoping the other person would get the opposing one in so they could score a hit.
Wouldn’t that be a game of chance really?

Now you can say “well, not so unlimited dodge”.
Alright, so now you have 2 people standing in front of each other waiting for the other to make a move so they can counter, only both would wait to make sure they’d get a hitting blow.
Now think on a 3v1 scenario, as soon as you used P on one, the other 2 would be more than free to use R on you, how would that make 3v1 any more viable than what it is right now?

Honestly, how is all that much different from what we have now?
You already have abilities to counter other abilities and timing IS everything, mashing the keyboard has NEVER won me anything in this game, not in PvP/WvW anyway, I always need to watch my enemy and counter its abilities.

And as for 3v1 “not viable in this game”, there’s loads of videos on YouTube where you see small groups taking on much larger groups and winning on WvW.

Again, I think it all boils down to you being bored with this game right now, I’d say get in another char or give the game a break, but if I’m honest your post made it sound like you are bored from every game in general.

Dean, let me clarify a few things. I brought up the face rolling points to show that I can not imagine much good coming out of the current system. Also that I found the system to have no significant difference from other games. There is skill required, as mentioned above, but it seems rather limited to me. If Anet was improving/modifying the combat I probably would not have much to say now. Seeing as they have been trying to balance the professions, I was convince they were not going to change anything.

Here is the R-P-S idea again. I did not say unlimited dodge, I said remove dodge and replace it with the “paper” skill which will be channeled. That means you have to hold the defense button down for as long as you want or until the end of endurance duration. It is not an instantaneous ability like the dodge roll. As long as the defense button is held down, the other players can not use their normal damaging abilities and expect progress. But the players must use a “Scissor” ability against the defense to break it so that he may continue normal damage.

For example if I used Scissors against a player using rock abilities, I wasted an ability which then goes on a short 3 sec CD. My enemy, who used rock, will be doing much greater damage for the time and will have three secs to block freely. If I used Scissors while he uses paper, which is his defense ability to block attacks, then I break it and for the next 3 secs or so, and I will be able to use Rock abilities freely. Therefore no one can just sit and block everything… it will be their failure if they do. There is no one way to kill a person, because it depends on what the other person does. The only reason I said “face-rolling” is because it feels like from time to time that the best thing I can do is keep max damage on my target while their dodge is on CD and that is the basic strategy. I get careless in group fights because I really do not need to pay any attention, next to that I am just spamming attacks just to get credit for it all.

For 3v1, I said this would “feel” more doable, not that it actually would be. Against three players no matter the game, it is always going to be hard-to-impossible. First person shooters it is possible because if the other three can not hit an enemy two feet in front, the lone player who can, will win. In GW2, that is not so because there is targeting involved. The other three players just need to be in range and start mashing keys for damage. My one character can only do so much because of CD, once CD is used for dodge and block abilities in weapons or utilities, I can do nothing and I am helpless. So, if I were to block abilities more constantly, the other players will need to use the counter of what I am using instead of throwing out their max damage because eventually I will die. However, there are three of them, and three has its advantage and so even one of them should be able to use the counter and so cause a win. With that, there will be no long battles or fights because one person is blocking all the time, neither will the fight all the sudden (at least solely based on the R-P-S plan) be easy for one person to take out 3.

WvW is not an accurate way to see the 3v1 idea because: 1. Not all the players are traited or geared which matters; I can tell that the enemy is not in level 80 just because of how fast he dies. 2. There are siege weapons which are incredibly helpful as should be. 3. Using abilities does impact the fight but is not everything. It could be that in their numbers they were cluttered and AOE’d. Naturally AOE is better than single target abilities in group fights.

I did take a break for about a month from the game. Whether I am bored or not is irrelevant. Also, I only mentioned (once?) about the design being boring, but the whole three pages was not about me being bored. It was about what I had observed in the combat system, and how I think it might be better. Therefore, I am not sure how you concluded that it “boils down” to me being bored or not. Either this system is generally the same as other games or it is not. My thoughts are that it is the same, with a few differences that would make it not seem so. My point was to say that improvement is needed somewhere, and the idea I had was the R-P-S. Re-reading what I had written earlier it seemed like I might have had a negative tone, but I really did not. I still think highly of this game, but I do want something more with the combat for more reasons than mentioned here.