Guild Wars 2

Intro

Hi everyone,

This will be a suggestion that will get a lot of hate because people can’t do one of the most fundamental things in this game, Jumping. I am not saying that some of these aren’t hard.

This is a sad thing. And what makes it even more sad is that people rely on mesmers and thus skip content to get the reward in a matter of seconds.

I don’t like the mesmer portal being a lot more superior compared to any kind of teleport (shadowstepping and such) because they allow other people to reach locations unreachable by any other means (walking, a few jumps, other teleports) BUT this is another issue.

Actual suggestion:

• Portal free zones in jumping puzzle areas.
• Or anything that lowers the reward for using this method. (Debuff for example – Any chest rewards less for x amount of time after using portal)

Reasoning:

• Achievements. Great that people achieve things without doing the slightest effort. Oh ye wait, they type in chat asking for mesmers. If you can’t do it you shouldn’t be rewarded.
• Future T7 stuff or better rewards in general. It’s nice we will get these from JP’s and stuff but at the moment you could actually just drop a daily chest for free on the same spot because there won’t be any effort given by those that use a mesmers portal. Alt parking is fine (because you had to get there first anyway)
• Even though it will be frustrating to some people, almost every JP is actually permanent. You can try it out whenever you want. Use them to practice jumping because jumping is an important aspect of the game!
• It takes away the feeling of achievement.
• People do complain about portallers :p because they try to do it legit.
• Portallers do somehow ruin the fun in completing puzzles for certain people.

The future rewards should be the most important reason for portal free zones

Other suggestions I saw at reddit and somewhere:

• Remove any skills when you enter such a puzzle ( sadly we have hostiles in some JP’s)
• Remove utilities

I do expect a lot of hate and disapproval. Even friends of mine don’t like the fact they need to be able to jump. It will take an effort and that will make those lazy people here rage But try to keep things civilized.

Update:

• The reddit link
• Another recent post

Merujsy.6283:

(Debuff for example – Any chest rewards less for x amount of time after using portal)

+1

There are people are are unable to do these things for a variety of reasons. There are other people who have the means and disposition to let people through. It’s just a crummy chest and an achievement. In what way does this discourse hurt or in any way effect you? If people want to throw down portals and other people want to bypass the puzzle, let them.

If it’s a new puzzle that I haven’t beaten before I won’t accept a portal, cause I want to complete the puzzle on my own. If I’ve been through it already then I might take it just to get the chest. It doesn’t hurt anyone and it helps some people who either lack the skill, disposition or connectivity required to complete otherwise.

Kal Spiro.9745:

There are people are are unable to do these things for a variety of reasons. There are other people who have the means and disposition to let people through. It’s just a crummy chest and an achievement. In what way does this discourse hurt or in any way effect you?

I know some people have difficulties in these things because of certain reasons. Although it is still possible for them to actually complete them, with or without the extra help of others (without portal).

Also, for now these chests are sill useless. But they will contain T7 mats. Which may lead to crafting ascended armor and precursors.

Merujsy.6283:

Kal Spiro.9745:

There are people are are unable to do these things for a variety of reasons. There are other people who have the means and disposition to let people through. It’s just a crummy chest and an achievement. In what way does this discourse hurt or in any way effect you?

I know some people have difficulties in these things because of certain reasons. Although it is still possible for them to actually complete them, with or without the extra help of others (without portal).

Also, for now these chests are sill useless. But they will contain T7 mats. Which may lead to crafting ascended armor and precursors.

So what you’re saying is, they shouldn’t be allowed to have T7 mats, Ascended gear and Precursors because they’re either not good at jumping puzzles, don’t like jumping puzzles or aren’t able to complete jumping puzzles because their system/connection isn’t up to the task?

Why not? Once again I have to ask the question, in what way does this effect you? Why is your success contingent on someone else’s failure? Why can you not just be happy with your own achievements and ignore everyone else?

Ok….what about people with lagg?
People with lagg do have a huge disadvanges. so for us to find out that there will be a new event with a new JP is horrible, since, we might aswell stop doing them.

I respect that you want more rewards for something your “good” at, but if you want people to srsly liking your idea, I suggest you see it from every perspective, and think if its really worth removing every player who cant do it, because of the small reasons you have.

I guarantee that T7 mats will be avaliable from things besides JPs. Mini dungeons are confirmed for holding T7 mats, and I’m sure you’ll be able to get it from lots of different places.

If you can’t do content, you shouldn’t be rewarded for it. Its that simple. If you think your lazily portaling though every JP to stock up on T7 mats is justified because if you couldn’t do it, then poor little Timmy with his 56k dial up internet on his Mactintosh 128k in rural Iowa couldn’t do it either, then you’re basically just talking out of your kitten . If you can’t do JPs, you don’t get JP rewards, just like if you can’t do dungeons, you don’t get dungeon rewards, if you can’t do WvW, you don’t get WvW rewards, if you can’t do PvP, you don’t get PvP rewards, you can’t do world bosses, you don’t get world boss rewards, and if you can’t do temples, you don’t get temple rewards.

Psycho Robot.7835:

I guarantee that T7 mats will be avaliable from things besides JPs. Mini dungeons are confirmed for holding T7 mats, and I’m sure you’ll be able to get it from lots of different places.

If you can’t do content, you shouldn’t be rewarded for it. Its that simple. If you think your lazily portaling though every JP to stock up on T7 mats is justified because if you couldn’t do it, then poor little Timmy with his 56k dial up internet on his Mactintosh 128k in rural Iowa couldn’t do it either, then you’re basically just talking out of your kitten . If you can’t do JPs, you don’t get JP rewards, just like if you can’t do dungeons, you don’t get dungeon rewards, if you can’t do WvW, you don’t get WvW rewards, if you can’t do PvP, you don’t get PvP rewards, you can’t do world bosses, you don’t get world boss rewards, and if you can’t do temples, you don’t get temple rewards.

Funny that. I don’t do WvW, nor PvP and I have a ton of Badges of Honor and PvP skins, which I believe are the rewards for those two areas. World PvE makes no difference, just follow the group and you get the reward as long as you hit something with something. Dungeons are the only relevant argument, but that’s not very helpful since the reward for dungeons is skins so it should be more restricted.

What I can do, however, is Jumping Puzzles and I have completed, on my own, every single one of them, including the ones that were temporary.

I don’t really care about T7 mats, I won’t be “farming” them. But if someone else wants to and wants to skip the actual puzzle, I still say let them, cause it doesn’t effect me. It doesn’t diminish my skill, and it doesn’t diminish my reward when I complete it myself.

Psycho Robot.7835:

I guarantee that T7 mats will be avaliable from things besides JPs. Mini dungeons are confirmed for holding T7 mats, and I’m sure you’ll be able to get it from lots of different places.

If you can’t do content, you shouldn’t be rewarded for it. Its that simple. If you think your lazily portaling though every JP to stock up on T7 mats is justified because if you couldn’t do it, then poor little Timmy with his 56k dial up internet on his Mactintosh 128k in rural Iowa couldn’t do it either, then you’re basically just talking out of your kitten . If you can’t do JPs, you don’t get JP rewards, just like if you can’t do dungeons, you don’t get dungeon rewards, if you can’t do WvW, you don’t get WvW rewards, if you can’t do PvP, you don’t get PvP rewards, you can’t do world bosses, you don’t get world boss rewards, and if you can’t do temples, you don’t get temple rewards.

I can do dungeons, WvW, PvP, and do them all.
The main thing I cant do, is jumping puzzle, ive been in the WvW JP for a few hours be4 a mesmer came and asked if i need help……
We can look at your perspective and say “it doesnt matter what your conditions are, you cant do it, you dont get rewarded”. or the one i am in “I basecly cant do them, because of lagg, so why should i not be able to be a part of JP at all?”. or the good one…."why da f*** should you care? do you lose something out of me doing them? if you think its alot of fun, then do it, you basecly dont lose anything from me getting help from other players. Its not like i will take your rewards or something.
I cant see how this makes you less interested about the JPs either? I mean, if you got a good computer, you would get up there as fast as any other mesmer, then why would you even care about thoese who laggs to much?

Merujsy.6283:

…
Actual suggestion:
Portal free zones in jumping puzzle areas.
Or anything that lowers the reward for using this method. (Debuff for example – Any chest rewards less for x amount of time after using portal)
…
I do expect a lot of hate and disapproval. Even friends of mine don’t like the fact they need to be able to jump. It will take an effort and that will make those lazy people here rage But try to keep things civilized.

I’m gonna delete you from my friend list.. -.-

Just kidding, but seriously, yeah, I don’t like this because I’m really really bad at jp’s. And I don’t enjoy them at all. Sure I can try a jp 1000x if I want to because they are permanent (most), but that doesn’t change the fact that I will die 1000x and that I played 1000x +/- 2 minutes (wasted time)?

If this suggestion gets through, no problem, it’s only a game, I’ll park some alts on the LA jp’s and that’s as far as it goes. I’ll still need guidance of a friendly person tho XD

Actually it doesn’t matter much since I don’t like jp’s since I’m so bad at them, so I don’t really bother with them either, it’s just a waste of time, so honestly, if they change this or not, doesn’t make a difference.

Have fun all.

Ps: Merujsy: Want to help me park my alts? :p

Oh wait, almost forgot, Anet please make this happen, but also implement baby rainbows from super adventure box for me and the other jp pro’s, everyone’s happy XD

But you’re portaling through the jumping puzzles. You’re already NOT a part of them. You’re skipping them entirely and grabbing the reward. And if the “why do you care? it doesn’t take anything away from you” argument is valid, then why not just give everyone everything for free? Why should anyone care about that? It doesn’t take anything from anyone. If you lag too much to play the game, I don’t see why you should expect to be rewarded on the same level as people who do play it.

There will obviously be other ways to daily obtain these materials. So no big deal if the easiest way suddenly becomes a bit harder.

As for these badges of honor. They are a WvW reward, Yes. And those that you gained outside them came from achievement points. Guess what, WvW has achievements. Slayer, weapon master and so on also count. Therefor that argument was invalid.

And still, why get rewarded for doing no effort. They could easily just mail you an item everyday. Saves you the trouble of actually going to a puzzle area.

And even though it isn’t that relevant for others, it is a bit sad that doing an effort only rewards as much for doing nothing but what is said in my black text in the first post.

I do help others in puzzles, And I actually try to guide them. And eventually they succeed.

Soyle.1285:

If this suggestion gets through, no problem, it’s only a game, I’ll park some alts on the LA jp’s and that’s as far as it goes. I’ll still need guidance of a friendly person tho XD

Actually it doesn’t matter much since I don’t like jp’s since I’m so bad at them, so I don’t really bother with them either, it’s just a waste of time, so honestly, if they change this or not, doesn’t make a difference.

Have fun all.

Ps: Merujsy: Want to help me park my alts? :p

Oh wait, almost forgot, Anet please make this happen, but also implement baby rainbows from super adventure box for me and the other jp pro’s, everyone’s happy XD

Yes, of course I will help. It’s fun to help people actually get to the very end.

Point is, only effort should be rewarded. Whatever method used.

Ps: Lol, complaining about lag in JP while you don’t have problems in wvw and dungeons :/

As people pointed out, how does someone being able to portal affect your play in any way? I don’t have a problem with them because of my PC setup and screen size (well, besides the problem that tall Norns have as a rule) One of my guildmates has a really tough time because of having to play on a very old MacBook, so we help them out.

Unless what you’re saying is anybody with problematic hardware should just buy a new machine, and I’d think really hard about what that says if you do.

Nothing more then a L33T who grew up on Mario taking the high road over everyone else. I use a mesmer to do jump puzzles. It makes it easy to set a portal before a difficult jump just in case I miss so I do not have to go all the way back to the start of the puzzle in order to try again. Mind you I have completed all the Jump puzzles in the game and with the exception of using my mesmer as detailed above I have done them all on my own. I am also 58 years old and my reflexes are just not what they were when I was 17 and thinking that I was the best thing since the invention of sliced bread.

As many have mentioned it does not hurt you in any way, shape or form and it is only your ego getting bruised. Play your game and keep your nose out of the way I play mine. As long as it is not an exploit, and it is not, as long as it is not a hack, and it is not, then what is the big deal? It is not your values or your conscience that has to deal with it so quit pretending that it harms you.

BearJada.3295:

As people pointed out, how does someone being able to portal affect your play in any way? I don’t have a problem with them because of my PC setup and screen size (well, besides the problem that tall Norns have as a rule) One of my guildmates has a really tough time because of having to play on a very old MacBook, so we help them out.

Unless what you’re saying is anybody with problematic hardware should just buy a new machine, and I’d think really hard about what that says if you do.

So if he has a bad pc and can’t do JP’s, how can he do the more intensive things in the game as in regular pve?

Portalling gives free rewards for something they didn’t do. And how is it fun to get at the end and just get what you want with no effort. Mail the item right away the moment you enter the puzzle. It is more fun to achieve it on your own.

People complain that JP’s are boring. I do wonder what % uses portals.

And ego doesn’t have to do anything with it. Even I wasn’t that good at this. But I kept trying and practised and got better.

In this case the game is played for you and you only grab the reward.

I wonder why people won’t keep trying for these things. Jumping is an important aspect in this game. And this will be the thing you will never improve at if you rely on others only.

Merujsy.6283:

And ego doesn’t have to do anything with it. Even I wasn’t that good at this. But I kept trying and practised and got better.

It has everything to do with ego. “Look I can do this jump puzzle without a portal so I am better then you”…. That is nothing more then ego talking.

As I stated, it is not an exploit or a hack so it should not bother you how someone else decides to play the game. It is not your business.

Theftwind.8976:

Merujsy.6283:

And ego doesn’t have to do anything with it. Even I wasn’t that good at this. But I kept trying and practised and got better.

It has everything to do with ego. “Look I can do this jump puzzle without a portal so I am better then you”…. That is nothing more then ego talking.

As I stated, it is not an exploit or a hack so it should not bother you how someone else decides to play the game. It is not your business.

Useless post that claims I said something which I never did.

Merujsy.6283:

Useless post that claims I said something which I never did.

Throughout your whole thread that is exactly what you are implying.

Answer this question for me. How does my using a portal in a jump puzzle to avoid going back all the way to the start if I miss a jump affect you?

Give me a detailed and logical answer on how it affects your gameplay and I may perhaps see your point of view.

Theftwind.8976:

Merujsy.6283:

Useless post that claims I said something which I never did.

Throughout your whole thread that is exactly what you are implying.

Answer this question for me. How does my using a portal in a jump puzzle to avoid going back all the way to the start if I miss a jump affect you?

Give me a detailed and logical answer on how it affects your gameplay and I may perhaps see your point of view.

Reason why people will be against it and seek these easy to use arguments is because they don’t want their free ticket to the reward gone.

As for yourself using your own portal. It does indeed not affect me at all. But you use it for yourself and deserve the reward. Easy answer and this didn’t have to do with other people easy portalling up without effort. With your method, it means they didn’t reach the end yet.

Then again, why do mesmers need so much of an advantage in JP’s? How is that fair compared to other professions? Do we not need balance or does your ego say, Lol I don’t want this because I can use my own portal as a fail safe anyway.

This is why you shouldn’t link it to someones skill or ego. None of it may be true but you accuse the person of being like that anyway.

Suggestions are to be discussed So as long as no one starts flaming everything is still alright.

…..Its without a doubt all about ego
The only thing you really get out of this is the felling that you can do something which others with a bad computer cant.
In the end, it means that Arena Net might not put another JP in the living story events, Guilds wont be able to help new players or thoese with bad computers, and in general, we wont be able to get toese places. I dont use portals on every JP, srsly only thoese which i lag massivly in…….like that in EB.

We will lose more than winning, in the end. You will forfill your ego, but in the end, its not worth it!

But what you are saying is “I deserve the reward more because I did not use a portal” or “I deserve a better reward because I did not use a portal”. Jumping puzzle rewards and achievements are not group based. They are individual rewards. Your reward does not lessen mine nor vice versa. It is not the same as the great debate over using magic find in a dungeon. Most people that I know in my age group will do the jump puzzle not for the chest reward, which is usually junk, but to complete the achievement for that jump puzzle,

So you ask about balance and fairness. How fair is it to put in jump puzzles that any 17 year old can do with absolute ease while someone that is my age or older, with slower reflexes has more difficulty with? My older sister for example will have her son do some of the more difficult puzzles for her because he can do it easier then she can. Is it fair that jump puzzles should reward the younger players more then the older ones just because of age and ability? Where then is the fairness?

Your decision to do jump puzzles without portals is completely your decison. The results of that decision is what you have to live with. If I choose to use a portal that is my decision and I have to live with the outcome of my decision, not yours. If my “achievement” is lessened by my using a portal it does not affect you. The only thing that can possibly affect you with my using a portal or even someone else porting to the end is that you are comparing your decision against mine and calling yours the “better” way to do it. That is why I stated that ego plays a big part in this as ego is all based on comparing yourself to others.

zengara.8301:

…..Its without a doubt all about ego
The only thing you really get out of this is the felling that you can do something which others with a bad computer cant.
In the end, it means that Arena Net might not put another JP in the living story events, Guilds wont be able to help new players or thoese with bad computers, and in general, we wont be able to get toese places. I dont use portals on every JP, srsly only thoese which i lag massivly in…….like that in EB.

We will lose more than winning, in the end. You will forfill your ego, but in the end, its not worth it!

Please, Don’t make it “All ego” because you say it is. I never said I was pro, You can actually do any of these with the min spec PC (my laptop doesn’t even meet that and I do not see that much trouble compared to a faster PC)
You can still guide people through puzzles. “Helping” others for an achievement or chest with a portal is playing the game for them. The only part you play is pressing F. Guide people the normal way by actually jumping with them.

Theftwind.8976:

But what you are saying is “I deserve the reward more because I did not use a portal” or “I deserve a better reward because I did not use a portal”. Jumping puzzle rewards and achievements are not group based. They are individual rewards. Your reward does not lessen mine nor vice versa. It is not the same as the great debate over using magic find in a dungeon. Most people that I know in my age group will do the jump puzzle not for the chest reward, which is usually junk, but to complete the achievement for that jump puzzle,

So you ask about balance and fairness. How fair is it to put in jump puzzles that any 17 year old can do with absolute ease while someone that is my age or older, with slower reflexes has more difficulty with? My older sister for example will have her son do some of the more difficult puzzles for her because he can do it easier then she can. Is it fair that jump puzzles should reward the younger players more then the older ones just because of age and ability? Where then is the fairness?

Your decision to do jump puzzles without portals is completely your decison. The results of that decision is what you have to live with. If I choose to use a portal that is my decision and I have to live with the outcome of my decision, not yours. If my “achievement” is lessened by my using a portal it does not affect you. The only thing that can possibly affect you with my using a portal or even someone else porting to the end is that you are comparing your decision against mine and calling yours the “better” way to do it. That is why I stated that ego plays a big part in this as ego is all based on comparing yourself to others.

They want to complete the achievement. But it actually is not an achievement because they never did it themselves. (insta port up, 1 sec)
The reward is still irrelevant but they will contain T7 materials which are obtainable from other sources too. But for those who can and want to, this may be a way to get these materials. And it would be a bit stupid to have everyone get all the items for 0 effort.

As long as a puzzle is not timed. You almost need no reflex. Or maybe just the basic reflex for playing pve. Apart from mad kings tower (or whatever) and the x-mas one, you could take your time with the puzzle. (maybe with some other exceptions)
The rewards are the same whatever your age is. It’s about being able to complete them or not that gives the actual reward anyway.

It is quite sad that everything has to be someones ego, while this is just a suggestion.
I even gave good/ok reasons to why it is a plausible suggestion.
And the 1 thing you come up with is ego. Which is not a factor that will make this suggestion pass or fail.

I even give a reason which is not selfish. JP’s for practise. People will learn to time their jumps better, People will learn more about the mechanics involved with jumping. Pve, Pvp and WvW uses jumping. Living story dungeons and bosses use jumping mechanics (shockwaves). This is something to improve people and to make people actually get their worth from doing this. And all this by actually playing the game themselves and getting better at it.
And only then people get the right to complain about boring puzzles (which is seen often) and these are only optional.

I hope this post makes you think this through. I have work tomorrow so I have to get some sleep now.

Only post decent arguments. And respond to counters in a decent way. Don’t make it personal.

What I don’t understand, and maybe you can explain this to me, is why does this bother you? Personally I love Jumping puzzles, and have done them all but I understand that there are people who for whatever reason can’t do them. Why in the world would you want to diminish their playing experience? I’ve used my mesmer more than once to help a guildie or even a stranger with jumping puzzles. Honestly it just seems like you’re bitter about something and want these people punished. Your suggestion confounds me because not only does it do absolutely nothing good for anyone, it is bad for some people. IT sounds like you’re bitter because they get the same rewards as you without the effort, but for some people jumping in this game is the worst aspect.

Merujsy.6283:

I hope this post makes you think this through. I have work tomorrow so I have to get some sleep now.

Only post decent arguments. And respond to counters in a decent way. Don’t make it personal.

I am not making any personal attacks. We all have that little demon called ego sitting on our shoulders and he manifests himself every time you start comparing yourself or your accomplishments to those of other people and then he urges you to look for ways to diminish or lessen their accomplishments in order to boost yours. It is human nature. The trick is to know when he starts speaking to you and to recognize what it is he is up to. Since the problem you have with jump puzzles and portals is a comparison between doing the jump puzzle with a portal and doing it without it and thereby which way is better it feeds that little guy on your shoulder. Do not let him get too fat or he will just take over your life.

Why should we be fine with people getting the same rewards without the effort? It doesn’t matter much now, because jumping puzzles reward absolute garbage, but once they start awarding T7 mats, it’ll be patently unfair. What if someone were able to get the full rewards of dungeon running without ever actually doing any of it? Or if someone were just given laurels without doing dailies because they just didn’t like them?

Psycho Robot.7835:

Why should we be fine with people getting the same rewards without the effort? It doesn’t matter much now, because jumping puzzles reward absolute garbage, but once they start awarding T7 mats, it’ll be patently unfair. What if someone were able to get the full rewards of dungeon running without ever actually doing any of it? Or if someone were just given laurels without doing dailies because they just didn’t like them?

People are already getting dungeon rewards and skipping half the dungeon, we would not have 5 minute CoF runs if that were not the case. However that is their business, not mine. That is their game, not mine.Laurels have to be earned, they are not just given and there is no legal way to just be given the laurels without doing the daily/monthly so that part does not work in this argument.

You can do almost any content in this game and get rewards without having to do much, or anything at all.

You can win PvP matches by joining them late and mooching off the winning team, or joining them early and just running around not actually doing anything.

You can do WvW events by following a zerg and not ever doing anything except occasionally pushing a button (difficulty level: same as using a portal).

You can stop by a DE, kill a couple mobs and leave, and still get a medal from across the map when some other person finishes it. Heck, you sometimes get credit for a DE without ever participating in it, just because you were nearby.

You can join a dungeon party and not do anything and still get completion rewards.

In the recent LS update, you can make it to a map where the invasion is ongoing, finish maybe one event, then park your character in a corner somewhere and wait for it to be over to get the rewards.

All of these things will also give achievements, or improve achievement counts, with no effort on the player’s part – as long as someone else has completed the content.

Taking a portal to the end of a JP is no different. Ultimately, whether or not the leecher got the reward does not affect the rewards that everyone else got. And unlike the rest of the content – where people leeching is detrimental to the people actually doing it, because it’ll scale the difficulty/put them at a disadvantage – leeching in JPs is completely harmless. People open portals to the end of the JP because they want to. People leech with the permission of the player they’re leeching from. And that’s perfectly fine in an MMO.

zengara.8301:

Ok….what about people with lagg?
People with lagg do have a huge disadvanges. so for us to find out that there will be a new event with a new JP is horrible, since, we might aswell stop doing them.

i have lag 60% of the time, only JP its caused issue with is stepping stones (and not so secret… but i accidentally ruined that for myself by taking a portal someone dropped at my feet)

Theftwind.8976:

Psycho Robot.7835:

Why should we be fine with people getting the same rewards without the effort? It doesn’t matter much now, because jumping puzzles reward absolute garbage, but once they start awarding T7 mats, it’ll be patently unfair. What if someone were able to get the full rewards of dungeon running without ever actually doing any of it? Or if someone were just given laurels without doing dailies because they just didn’t like them?

People are already getting dungeon rewards and skipping half the dungeon, we would not have 5 minute CoF runs if that were not the case. However that is their business, not mine. That is their game, not mine.Laurels have to be earned, they are not just given and there is no legal way to just be given the laurels without doing the daily/monthly so that part does not work in this argument.

What do you mean it doesn’t work? Getting the JP rewards without doing the JP is like getting the laurels without doing the daily.

Psycho Robot.7835:

What do you mean it doesn’t work? Getting the JP rewards without doing the JP is like getting the laurels without doing the daily.

Because there is absolutely no possible way to get Laurels without doing the work. That is a straw man argument.

I honestly can’t tell if you’re kittening with me or not. That is not a straw man argument at all. What I’m saying is that accessing the rewards of content A (jumping puzzles) without doing the work (jumping through the puzzle) is like accessing the rewards of content B (laurels) without doing the work (doing daily achievements). The reason why I can say those two things are comparable is because they are the SAME THING. But YOUR argument seems to be that they’re not at all alike, because you CAN’T get laurels without doing the dailies. That is the entire point of this thread! You SHOULDN’T get laurels without doing dailies, and you SHOULDN’T get JP rewards without doing the JPs!

Theftwind.8976:

Psycho Robot.7835:

What do you mean it doesn’t work? Getting the JP rewards without doing the JP is like getting the laurels without doing the daily.

Because there is absolutely no possible way to get Laurels without doing the work. That is a straw man argument.

thats an arguement for no portals in JP
there should be absolutely no possible way to get JP chests without doing the work (imo that also includes ‘planting’ an alt at a JP and ‘harvesting’ it daily)…

Hey dude, would you say that theftwind was……………. linguistically inept?

So how about this scenario. The wife and I will use our mesmers in a JP. We will leapfrog and use portals in the difficult situations so when one falls the other can easily port him or her back to where they fell from. We still have to traverse the complete jump puzzle but we are doing it in the most efficient way possible. HOW does that HURT you? There is no way in which it can! None whatsoever!

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Theftwind.8976:

Psycho Robot.7835:

What do you mean it doesn’t work? Getting the JP rewards without doing the JP is like getting the laurels without doing the daily.

Because there is absolutely no possible way to get Laurels without doing the work. That is a straw man argument.

thats an arguement for no portals in JP
there should be absolutely no possible way to get JP chests without doing the work (imo that also includes ‘planting’ an alt at a JP and ‘harvesting’ it daily)…

then there shouldnt be any way to skip dungeon content either, no more speed runs, no more skipping optional bosses anything.

Merujsy.6283:

zengara.8301:

…..Its without a doubt all about ego
The only thing you really get out of this is the felling that you can do something which others with a bad computer cant.
In the end, it means that Arena Net might not put another JP in the living story events, Guilds wont be able to help new players or thoese with bad computers, and in general, we wont be able to get toese places. I dont use portals on every JP, srsly only thoese which i lag massivly in…….like that in EB.

We will lose more than winning, in the end. You will forfill your ego, but in the end, its not worth it!

Please, Don’t make it “All ego” because you say it is. I never said I was pro, You can actually do any of these with the min spec PC (my laptop doesn’t even meet that and I do not see that much trouble compared to a faster PC)
You can still guide people through puzzles. “Helping” others for an achievement or chest with a portal is playing the game for them. The only part you play is pressing F. Guide people the normal way by actually jumping with them.
.

Well, your pc might be a bit better than mine, i run normaly with around 10-15 fps but in the EB puzzle i get down to around 6 for some reason.
In other words, people like me, wont be able to do Guild Puzzles in the limited time we have, or want to be there.
It is hard to understand where your comming from, the JP`s isnt as huge in my gaming because of lagg, and only because of that. I actually tried to do alot of them in a loong time, thoug the fps would always be so low that i needed to press w 2 secs be4 it started.
In what your writing it almost sounds like there is always 1 mesmer there who will pick everyone up in any JP`s.
Again….in the end, I cant see anything you will benifit from removing this beside…..well not ego but atleast the satesfaction that you get, from doing something others cant because of specs etc.
JP´s arent PvP/WvW or farming pve, it isnt something you should do alone either, it should be fun and with a group of people. Thats how i think Anet wanted it to be like.
Beside the “fairness” you will lose again more than gain, you will get the fair JP, but JP´s wont be a fun time anymore, it will be annoying which makes people not enjoying them.
If we both have to be honest, what would we gain out of this suggestion, and would it be worth the lost?

zengara.8301:

Beside the “fairness” you will lose again more than gain, you will get the fair JP, but JP´s wont be a fun time anymore, it will be annoying which makes people not enjoying them.

How is jumping through a portal “fun”? The people are already “not enjoying them” by “not doing them”. The only thing that will change is that the lazy people who don’t do them don’t get rewarded for it, as it should be.

No thanks.

Psycho Robot.7835:

zengara.8301:

Beside the “fairness” you will lose again more than gain, you will get the fair JP, but JP´s wont be a fun time anymore, it will be annoying which makes people not enjoying them.

How is jumping through a portal “fun”? The people are already “not enjoying them” by “not doing them”. The only thing that will change is that the lazy people who don’t do them don’t get rewarded for it, as it should be.

I actually explained that, but thanks for removing that part. We know that there is guilds who do them, I mainly do them with a friend, we have some fun tryieng to get up there with my horrible lagg, like in the JP in WvW. Now the fun is that we run together, it will still take him time to get up there etc, so I will try to get up, and we will have a good time etc.
This is the one i explained:
Guild JP´s doing JP with a guild is always fun. Actually its pretty rarely i see something like what your writing down. “lazy people who don´t do them”. Only in that new aetherblade JP event, and people do try, be4 they get ported ofc, they dont just hit the portal and say kitten it all. It is that one your mainly thinking about, right?
I think i will end my comments here since it will prob be the same thing over and over “fair/ego vs having fun”
100% honesty, that is how I see JP now, place where you go with your friend, have some fun beside the normal WvW etc. This is how I imagine you seeing it, a place where people get ported all the time, and basecly dont move one bit. Might and might not be how you see it, but sure sounds like that.
I cant see why you would remove that bit of fun out of it + I hope Anet never go so far to do that.

Psycho Robot.7835:

But you’re portaling through the jumping puzzles. You’re already NOT a part of them. You’re skipping them entirely and grabbing the reward. And if the “why do you care? it doesn’t take anything away from you” argument is valid, then why not just give everyone everything for free? Why should anyone care about that? It doesn’t take anything from anyone. If you lag too much to play the game, I don’t see why you should expect to be rewarded on the same level as people who do play it.

It’s the fun test.

Is getting everything for free and never actually playing the game fun? Typically, I’m pretty sure the answer would be no.

Is doing jumping puzzles fun? For me the answer is a resounding yes. For others an emphatic no.

Is being forced to do something you really don’t enjoy doing in order to get something that is gated behind that thing fun? Pretty sure that’s another no.

Does it take away your fun to have the option to skip something that is really a rather minor aspect of the game in order to get the thing gated behind it? Generally this is a no.

Does it take away your fun if someone else is able to skip the thing they really don’t like even though you do, taking into account that it is a very minor aspect of the game? For me that’s a big no.

Does it take away less of your fun that their ability to skip content is directly dependant on another player completing that content the way you do and allowing them to skip it, that they can’t just walk up the bunny slope and get it?

The game is supposed to be about cooperation, isn’t it? Fun test aside, this interaction should actually be a good thing.

What gets me is why people are so up in arms over it. Unlike a dungeon run jp rewards are individualistic, you would get the same thing whether you run the jump puzzle yourself or go with a group. Some say because it gives them something for no work involved. I could say the same thing about some rich player buying 100,000 gems, converting it all to gold and buying anything he wants from the Trading post. He is not doing any work either.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Is being forced to do something you really don’t enjoy doing in order to get something that is gated behind that thing fun? Pretty sure that’s another no.

Nobody is forcing you to do jumping puzzles, so I don’t see how that argument is valid. Jumping puzzles won’t be the only way to get t7 mats when they’re released. It’ll just be a super easy trivial way since people can portal through them with literally no effort. I don’t agree with you that you should trivialize content and give rewards to people who never actually did anything, just because they don’t think the content is “fun”, and its stupid to strip away the challenge in content just because people think getting something for nothing is “fun”.

Psycho Robot.7835:

Nobody is forcing you to do jumping puzzles, so I don’t see how that argument is valid. Jumping puzzles won’t be the only way to get t7 mats when they’re released. It’ll just be a super easy trivial way since people can portal through them with literally no effort. I don’t agree with you that you should trivialize content and give rewards to people who never actually did anything, just because they don’t think the content is “fun”, and its stupid to strip away the challenge in content just because people think getting something for nothing is “fun”.

I will ask you again, How does this affect you? How does it impact your game play?

lol you are kidding right. When Anet put in portal and jps they knew what would happen. It seems like the only people surprised are you so called elites. Well I have done all the jps. I did not find them all fun. but I did them. when I am ask for help. I load up my mes and you know what… I portal them! So get over your elitism. I do not see this changing just to make you feel speical.

Portals are the one thing that saves players from the frustration that some JP’s invoke. I personally love them, but I know plenty of players that hate them, but still want to complete them. People need to get over this issue. Just let players skip what ever they want to skip.

Psycho Robot.7835:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Is being forced to do something you really don’t enjoy doing in order to get something that is gated behind that thing fun? Pretty sure that’s another no.

Nobody is forcing you to do jumping puzzles, so I don’t see how that argument is valid. Jumping puzzles won’t be the only way to get t7 mats when they’re released. It’ll just be a super easy trivial way since people can portal through them with literally no effort. I don’t agree with you that you should trivialize content and give rewards to people who never actually did anything, just because they don’t think the content is “fun”, and its stupid to strip away the challenge in content just because people think getting something for nothing is “fun”.

I think you managed to get hung up on the wrong question. No body is holding a gun to your head and saying do this. BUT, what is meant by forced is, in order to get the prize at the end you have absolutely no choice but to do the entirety of the thing. The prize isn’t a requirement, no one is forcing you to seek the prize. But in order to get the prize you’re forced to do the content.

You think that is how it should be. ANet does not. ANet very clearly does not by the fact that almost no content in the game actually works that way. If I really want the prize I am willing to go through the content to get it, and generally won’t skip it because I find the content fun. If I don’t find the content fun I simply won’t participate, prize or otherwise. But I understand that I’m me, and not everyone else, so I don’t try to impose my playstyle on everyone else.

There also seems to be this misconception that portals just happen cause a player wills it into being. Like someone who doesn’t want to do the puzzle just says, let there be portals, and bam they can get through, or that there is simply always a portal at all times and it’s silly that everyone doesn’t just take the portal cause it isn’t like it ever goes away. Someone, who happens to be playing a Mesmer, has to make that portal happen from the end of the puzzle. It is only by the will and grace of another player entirely that this is even possible.

It seems like most of the people against this are expecting, or even demanding, a more hardcore environment than GW2 was ever intended to be. This game is casual, VERY casual, and intended to inspire people to work together. I’m sorry but absolutely no amount of you saying jump from that rock to this one is going to effect how capable someone is at doing that. But removing the jump with a portal, that’s being helpful.

The question that’s been asked a few times seems to have been dodged. How does it directly affect you to have someone portal their way through JPs, for whatever the reason, be it hardware issues, physical issues, just not wanting to deal with it, or hating the WvW puzzles like burning but wanting to get that one achievement.

The answer is, it doesn’t, beyond some feeling of outrage about someone not doing things ‘the right way’. Which is dictating how others play, which is counter to what GW2 is supposed to be about.

I’ll give you a counter. My guild was involved in the organized portalling that happened in the Aetherblade airship with the JP and the diving point. That JP was an epic pain, getting the diving goggles was worse and incredibly time consuming. One of our mesmers parked herself on top of the ship, running people up there while a couple of us guarded her from the Aetherblades.

And you know what? It was fun. Everyone was helping out, sticking around to raise people that splatted, and in general having a great community time. What it sounds like is that you’d have rather had everybody kitten ed off because they’d botched the jump for the n’th time and not having any fun. No thank you.

Theftwind.8976:

I am not making any personal attacks. We all have that little demon called ego sitting on our shoulders and he manifests himself every time you start comparing yourself or your accomplishments to those of other people and then he urges you to look for ways to diminish or lessen their accomplishments in order to boost yours. It is human nature. The trick is to know when he starts speaking to you and to recognize what it is he is up to. Since the problem you have with jump puzzles and portals is a comparison between doing the jump puzzle with a portal and doing it without it and thereby which way is better it feeds that little guy on your shoulder. Do not let him get too fat or he will just take over your life.

This is the funniest thing I have ever read. I think the wise old man tries to save his own ego and wants to be right and keeps on going about ego. In your case he might already be a glutton because you just can’t drop this. Ego doesn’t have any role in this topic unless it is about achievement points or skins/looks.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-

Elitism and ego play no role in this, do not bring these things up because they aren’t constructive at all and are only used to personally attack those who have a different opinion. I only bring it up to counter what is said.

I will list a few more reasons and update my first post:

• ANet created content. Is it made to be skipped? I think not. – At least the main onbjective of certain content should be played.
• Hey wait? Do I see “Jumping” in Jumping Puzzles? I certainly don’t see portal jumping.
• Everyone would be equal. Everyone has speed boosts (perm or not). No complaints.
• Effort is rewarding. Doing nothing gives nothing.

I may need to post more as they pop in my head.

Now people want an answer to why it affects others. Easy and part of it has been said before.

• T7 mats. Highly valuable materials at no effort ever?
• They are ascended I think? (or ascended mats drop from these chests). They are used to craft better gear. And no I don’t care about the “you are afraid we will get better than you arguments”
• Fractals. There is one with a “JP”. Nice if no one can jump and there is no mesmer around. Although it is of the same difficulty as most puzzles in the game.
• Achievements. An achievement is something to feel proud about. But can you, if you only used a portal?
• Many complaints about how boring puzzles are. They are mostly non-grounded complaints. People don’t try anymore. They start using portals and call JP’s boring. In the end, they tried a puzzle they couldn’t finish and said "kitten , This sucks, I want the achievement because I want points to show? Oh ego fits here! And they never tried another one because they assumed they’d fail anyway.
• GW2 is about looks/skins and skills. Get that out of the game by doing this and you get a game without progression but ego points.
• Jumping is a skill. It is part of GW2. It is beneficial to everyone to improve in. And you will be able to enjoy the content if you want to.
• JP’s aren’t forced upon everyone. If it is for free rewards as it currently is, then that is a bit wrong and just greedy. But then people say it is a useless reward. Then what is it? Extra AP which makes you look good (because people like using ego in these things)
  And if it isn’t that either? Well nothing is left but a reason to explore or you just stay away because you don’t like it and don’t need it.

And when things will really get bad in the future.

• WvW: People get ascended gear without effort and have a big advantage and this is something I can see people complain for.
• Easier precursors give easy money. The economy may be hit.

Also, if you compare it to dungeons and other things. You do actually do an effort to get through a dungeon. CoF P1 requires 5 players. This results in everyone doing effort.
If someone likes to let everyone do the job for him, you can kick him.

In the end all that I saw from this and the other topic (links in first post) is that there are greedy people who want to leech and justify it as teamworking (where only 1 guy does all the work), want free rewards.

And to finish it of with this lovable ego. You help players complete a puzzle.
Did any of you think why. You see someone struggle and you want to help him. Very kind but the underlying feeling is that you just pity the guy for being worse than you. Any improvement or thing he might have discovered trying may be lost.
I do expect people to go crazy over this and whine about it but keep it on topic and constructive.

Give alternatives to make puzzles better. Or to make the suggestion better.
And do note, I’m only talking about Jumping Puzzles. Guild puzzles, dungeons and those special explorable areas are not necessarily included.

Post too long to edit so

I request that everyone tries not to use envy and elitism in this matter because it only shows your own envy.

The mats are moot, noone is going to have a mesmer porting people up at JPs all the time, this is most likely for specific times only. Thus they usually get one stab at the chest for the mats and that not something to be worried about (if they want to repeat it when the JP isnt “popular” anymore theyd have to jump it).

Heck the T7 mats is actually forcing these people to jump to get the reward

The issue is that you actually get an achievement for not doing anything which cheapens the achievement in itself. However since there is nothing related to these achievement points (like a title) it doesnt really matter…