Keeping WvW Viable Long Term: Open Letter to GW2

Keeping WvW Viable Long Term: Open Letter to GW2

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Posted by: ZeroLC.7893

ZeroLC.7893

I want to preface this suggestion with my background. I played DAoC when it first came out, spent countless amounts of hours RvRing, was part of one of the premiere 8-man groups in the game during it’s hay day, and felt the RvR system in place was the best there ever was. I note this, because there will be suggestions from myself that were part of the system in DAoC. I know people who will disagree with me will tend to focus on the fact that Guild Wars 2 isn’t DAoC 2 and never will be. I would agree to that sentiment, and I’m not looking to make major changes to the system already in place. I am not a typical Guild Wars player. I played the first GW game for about a month before I got bored and quit. I have played almost every major title mmo that had some aspect of RvR/PvP combat and have quit due to lack of a good RvR system/end game.

I feel that the WvW system in GW2 is a fresh take on PvP combat that involves more than two factions and pushes the idea of seige warfare. All the server realms are exactly the same, and as such, can be a bit tedious, but I understand the undertaking of having to entire zones different from one another.

With that being said, there is little incentive for WvW combat outside of “server pride”, which I do not say mockingly because I do feel it is important to have that. But to have to play day in and day out for something so intangible, so fluid, and so fleeting with no real gain for your personal self or character is not a good, long-term, sustainable model.

People mock the concept of MMO’s using the ‘carrot on a stick’, something that WoW has done incredibly well (and I hate WoW), and it’s hard to mock when the model is so effective. When you keep players coming back and playing because they can continually achieve something or make their character better, or more renown in some fashion, they tend not to leave or quit. The only thing remotely like this in GW2 is your achievement system, and beyond the point of small titles, I don’t see any use in it. But I’m dancing around the point, which is: With WvW, there is no ‘carrot on a stick’. There is no individual incentive, and at best, you are part of a collective with no discernible traits or differences from anyone else.

I understand that your model has been to keep the playing field level, so that a person who started playing a month ago has a chance to compete with someone who has been playing for far longer. In DAoC realm ranks mattered as they gave you realm skill points, which led to realm abilities, which as you progressed your character made you that much harder to kill and much more of an effective killer. I understand why you can’t follow that model, but there were other aspects of that system that could be used that has no impact on the character ability itself that I would like to suggest:

Realm point system – You tie numerical worth to killing individuals in WvW combat depending on how much damage you did to them. These points have no value, but you provide a website for servers to look up individual characters/classes/servers/weekly/monthly/overall numbers to see who has the most “rps”. People can be prideful of their character, compete against others, move up and down in the rankings.

Title system – Much like a realm rank system of daoc, you can argue how you would like to have it set up, and how much you need for each of the ranks, but having these ranks not only show up in a characters hero bar, but when that said character is WvWing, his enemies can see what his title is as well.

Name Display – Players should be able to click on enemies in WvW combat and see what the player’s character name is. This, over time, develops recognition with other servers and makes it more competitive when you come up against a foe that you recognize and have fought many times before.

Rewards – Can be simply cosmetic in nature, but like legendary weapons, when you achieve a certain level of WvW rank/title/etc, having the ability to purchase special WvW skins that can be applied to each class.

I feel all of these things could be added to the game without it affecting balance at all, and would be good incentives for people to play long term. Because, frankly, I’ve been playing GW2 since release and I’m rapidly getting to the point of not wanting to do WvW anymore, and since that was the major reason I came to play GW2 in the first place, my reason to stay is rapidly disappearing. I understand that this is strictly my own opinion and others may not feel the same way, but I would rather provide helpful suggestions, than for myself and thousands of others to simply disappear without reason.

I apologize if this has been brought up before in previous discussions, but from my quick glancing, I had not seem the topic and I don’t post to the boards frequently. I certainly welcome any input/feedback/suggestions and hope that this finds it’s way to someone in GW2!
~Guudx

Keeping WvW Viable Long Term: Open Letter to GW2

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Posted by: ZeroLC.7893

ZeroLC.7893

Shameless bump in the hopes of some feedback!

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Posted by: kitanas.3596

kitanas.3596

these suggestions are a lot better then most I see about WVW. however, how do you measure how good someone in WVW is? kills? that’s what WVW about. in fact, what makes someone good in WVW is to complex to compress into some stat. and if it does correlate with what A team needs to do to win, then you will have conflict between those that are trying to win and those that are trying to get RR. that’s just the concern I have with those types of carrots.

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Posted by: ZeroLC.7893

ZeroLC.7893

Unfortunately, because of the dynamic of WvW, there will be no way to tell, and even if you did have a way to tell, it would hardly matter as numbers, situations, etc will play heavily into considerations when fighting, whereas structured pvp is a much better indicator for those who are looking to play on an even playing field and winning.

But chances are, the more kills that someone has, means the longer they’ve played their class, means that they’ve put in a lot more hours than most, and from all experiences in games that I’ve had…playing time is one of the biggest factors of someone being skilled, simply because they’ve been doing it longer. While titles will be a good way to indicate the level of playing someone has done in WvW on that character, it won’t always equate to skill. But it does give them something to work towards.

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Posted by: Lord Aargadon.4135

Lord Aargadon.4135

Like you, my favorite thing about this game is WvW, but its starting to feel stale to me for the same reasons you have, no real reward, small titles that don’t really mean anything, poor drops, and almost guareenteed chance of having to deal with the money sinks like armor repair on top of that. Sure its fun, but becoming somewhat unnatractive now that I see how little it rewards.
Seeing how you want to see and have the rank of being a skilled long time player, but understand how Anet doesn’t want to give any one player an unfair advantage, this is my suggestion.

how about massive ranked GvGvG, not quite as large as WvWvW, but with similar setup. The map would be the size of a WvW map, maybe even one of the same maps, but this way it retains the organized nature of sPvP, giving it more “meaty” titles that acutally mean something, rather than grind based titles. Also this mode would give out better loot and so on for winning. As for specific titles, I think you deserve the legendary rank character frame that others see when you get clicked on, just for your understanding post.

Edit- along with the meaty titles, you could also cash in points or some other effectively similar systems to buy or unlock special items that you want.

(edited by Lord Aargadon.4135)

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Posted by: nofo.8469

nofo.8469

I made a post very similar to this, glad to see others feel the same way.

It’s sad to see that WvW is only really barebones at the moment, with the majority of it spent PvD.

The only other alternative to PvP is WoW-esque battlegrounds, and we all know how much longevity that had.

For a game marketed as a PvP game this is really sub-par to what I was expecting.

My previous topic if anyone is interested, similar topic to OP just focuses on different aspects.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/WvW-has-lots-of-room-for-improvement/first#post564941

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Posted by: BabelFish.7234

BabelFish.7234

I’d like to see better drops in WvW.

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Posted by: nofo.8469

nofo.8469

I’d like to see better drops in WvW.

We are after a little more depth to WvW than more drops.

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Posted by: BabelFish.7234

BabelFish.7234

I’d like to see better drops in WvW.

We are after a little more depth to WvW than more drops.

Like titles that translate into ego fluff?
The key to making WvW viable in the long term is to make the carrot mean something in PvE as well as WvW.

Easiest way to do this (I hate to say it) is the gear treadmill.

Make Mist Walker armor wearable in PvE, give WvW exotic sets that can only be earned there…legendary runes and sigils too. Stuff that actually makes the lvl 80 PvEers want to get on that treadmill.

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Posted by: nofo.8469

nofo.8469

I’d like to see better drops in WvW.

We are after a little more depth to WvW than more drops.

Like titles that translate into ego fluff?
The key to making WvW viable in the long term is to make the carrot mean something in PvE as well as WvW.

Easiest way to do this (I hate to say it) is the gear treadmill.

Make Mist Walker armor wearable in PvE, give WvW exotic sets that can only be earned there…legendary runes and sigils too. Stuff that actually makes the lvl 80 PvEers want to get on that treadmill.

Easiest yes I agree, but it still doesn’t give it longevity.

PvP MMO’s would be stupid to mimic WoW’s PvP.

I’m one of the people who doesn’t actually hate WoW but PvP was something it did not do well.

Gear grind and giving the server something to lose if they get defeated in WvW would be viable for longevity but far from optimal.

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Posted by: ZeroLC.7893

ZeroLC.7893

People that WvW and came to the game for this aspect alone, for the most part, aren’t here for special looking gear. Yes, the ego fluff is viable, why else get legendary gear? It doesn’t make you stronger, it’s all about looks and what is that but fluff?

I don’t think ‘drops’ are the answer, but for those who are gear-centric, you can have realm points be a similar system to the way we had badges now, but it just seems redundant.

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Posted by: nofo.8469

nofo.8469

Let me clarify to that post, if this game wants to be a mediocre PvP MMO with a few months appeal and people coming back for expansions then leaving again a few months later because they get bored.

Sure, implement gear based carrot on a stick WvW.

If this game wants a PvP community that lasts for years? No it won’t cut it.

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Posted by: ZeroLC.7893

ZeroLC.7893

Kyzen – you can’t communicate with other servers regardless, or at least to my knowledge you can’t. I’m not sure, I’ve never tried. Providing names but still being unable to communicate via in-game messaging is the concept that I think people would push for.

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Posted by: ZeroLC.7893

ZeroLC.7893

Ah, well in that case, I think the dynamic of that should change. Limiting the ability to communicate with anyone outside of your server.

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Posted by: bhansen.7251

bhansen.7251

Good suggestions tough I disagree with the name display suggestion one thing I like about WvW is you can’t see the opposing enemies name, when you get beaten or beat by someone, you can’t whisper him and starting insulting.

This is one thing I disliked within most games when you win or lose the other person feels the need to whisper you and insult you

I hope they take this concept over to hotjoin sPvP leave it out of tPVP as you need to see the enemy names helps with communication/differentiate between two or more of the same profession etc

As for better drops instead of little bags on the ground when you kill an enemy you should instead instantly receive Badges of honor, some money and little bit of exp, I don’t bother even picking up loot because most of the time it’s just junk and I rarely receive Badges of honor.

I disagree for the most part about the not naming players in WvW. I think players should earn to named, so that players who has spent lots of time has a chance to stand out as individuals and fame.

As for gear and drops… As it is now i think the Badge of Honor gear is a joke really. It takes ages to gather enough badges for an item and you can go buy a exact stat equal piece from a karma vendor. To begin with i thought the PvP gear had a uniqe stat focus, but it doesnt at all. This all leads back to the original subject.. Where is the purpose of WvW other then killing eachother? But thats ofc spoken from the heart of a former DAoC player.

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Posted by: Spoolooni.6712

Spoolooni.6712

Actually we should have high threat players that will not show up on the map but will flash your mini map red if you’re near his/her radius. Status like these can be earned based on how many kills the player has obtained within the week.

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Posted by: bhansen.7251

bhansen.7251

People that WvW and came to the game for this aspect alone, for the most part, aren’t here for special looking gear. Yes, the ego fluff is viable, why else get legendary gear? It doesn’t make you stronger, it’s all about looks and what is that but fluff?

I don’t think ‘drops’ are the answer, but for those who are gear-centric, you can have realm points be a similar system to the way we had badges now, but it just seems redundant.

I agree that gear based PvP isnt the way to go, but i would like to see maybe a PvP-trait tree. Where PvP-trait points are earned through WvW. People are so afraid that hardcore players will become OP. If you played DAoC, you know thats not a fact. Bad players will still be bad.

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Posted by: Assassin X.8573

Assassin X.8573

I’Ve had the pleasure of playing with guud in DAoC for years. I know without a doubt, the majority of DAoC veterans feel the same way. I know i do. He raises valid points.

For me personally, i stopped wvwing so much because of the lack of tangible goal attainment as well as armor repair cost (something that never made sense to me, anet wants people to be in the game constantly, yet if you run out if money, you are effectively out of the game).

Id like to see some kind of realm rank like system and seeing armor repair taken out of wvw. I would also like to know who i am fighting. I see the value in the annonimity but even in the dark ages of war in medieval times, fame and reknown allowed soldiers and knights and samurai to Recognize and know who they might run into on the battlefield.

Just my thoughts, not sure if it helps at all.

Darkhaven Gold Tiger Assassin X [JPGN][Sold][VII]
Videos on Youtube

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Posted by: Archmortal.1027

Archmortal.1027

I agree that gear based PvP isnt the way to go, but i would like to see maybe a PvP-trait tree. Where PvP-trait points are earned through WvW. People are so afraid that hardcore players will become OP. If you played DAoC, you know thats not a fact. Bad players will still be bad.

And good players who have amassed their PvP traits will be nigh-unkillable to those just coming in. PvP traits/stats are definitely not the way to go (as per WoW’s example, PvP-only stat makes newcomers suffer). They would only discourage inexperienced players from joining in which would be the opposite of increasing longevity.

On communication/knowing who you’re fighting: the current setup is ideal.

(edited by Archmortal.1027)

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Posted by: kitanas.3596

kitanas.3596

for those asking for more progression:

if you are not willing to stick around now because there is no progression, then why would you stick around after you complete the progression? after all, when you complete it, there will be no more progression again

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Posted by: ZeroLC.7893

ZeroLC.7893

That’s the point, you make the ceiling very high for progression, so that by the time people reach it, you’re already months down the road and they can raise the ceiling again. eg; daoc went to rr (realm rank)10, which took people years to achieve, and after it got to be more of a commonplace, they expanded to rr12, I believe, and currently (although I haven’t played in years) the cap is now rr13. Hence, the carrot on a stick.

http://camelotvault.ign.com/wiki/index.php/Realm_Ranks_and_Titles

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Posted by: kitanas.3596

kitanas.3596

That’s the point, you make the ceiling very high for progression, so that by the time people reach it, you’re already months down the road and they can raise the ceiling again. eg; daoc went to rr (realm rank)10, which took people years to achieve, and after it got to be more of a commonplace, they expanded to rr12, I believe, and currently (although I haven’t played in years) the cap is now rr13. Hence, the carrot on a stick.

http://camelotvault.ign.com/wiki/index.php/Realm_Ranks_and_Titles

but if the progression curve is infinite, then eventually power creep will make it mandatory. and mandatory grind is something areanet was specifically against.

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Posted by: Mura.8673

Mura.8673

I agree with the OP, particularly on the desire for leaderboards.

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Posted by: ZeroLC.7893

ZeroLC.7893

That’s the point, you make the ceiling very high for progression, so that by the time people reach it, you’re already months down the road and they can raise the ceiling again. eg; daoc went to rr (realm rank)10, which took people years to achieve, and after it got to be more of a commonplace, they expanded to rr12, I believe, and currently (although I haven’t played in years) the cap is now rr13. Hence, the carrot on a stick.

http://camelotvault.ign.com/wiki/index.php/Realm_Ranks_and_Titles

but if the progression curve is infinite, then eventually power creep will make it mandatory. and mandatory grind is something areanet was specifically against.

But it’s simply a title progression curve, nothing more, nothing less. It’s not mandatory by any means, it just gives people who want to WvW more incentive to work towards something. If GW2 is the equivalent of an FPS mentality type of mmo, even the most successful FPS games have ranking systems and unlocks. BF3, CoD, MoH…they all have it. The gun unlocks make games slightly unbalanced until you’ve put enough time in, but the ranks themselves don’t affect the gameplay or make you better outside of the weapon unlocks. Skill still prevails.

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Posted by: nofo.8469

nofo.8469

I would wager people that are bashing the RP system have never actually played a PvP MMO.

for those asking for more progression:
if you are not willing to stick around now because there is no progression, then why would you stick around after you complete the progression? after all, when you complete it, there will be no more progression again

It is infinite, it is more of a form of ladder than anything else anyway, which guilds or individuals are doing best.

And good players who have amassed their PvP traits will be nigh-unkillable to those just coming in. PvP traits/stats are definitely not the way to go (as per WoW’s example, PvP-only stat makes newcomers suffer). They would only discourage inexperienced players from joining in which would be the opposite of increasing longevity.
On communication/knowing who you’re fighting: the current setup is ideal.

This goes to show my opening statement.

You think the current setup for knowing who you are fighting against, there is no indication of how long your opponents have been PvPing for and its all a massive ZvZ or PvD fight anyway, does it really matter who you are up against?

A good RP implementation does not make top tier players gods or w/e you think. Coming from WoW as an example I can understand your trepidation towards such an idea but understand this, WoW did PvP horribly.

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Posted by: kitanas.3596

kitanas.3596

That’s the point, you make the ceiling very high for progression, so that by the time people reach it, you’re already months down the road and they can raise the ceiling again. eg; daoc went to rr (realm rank)10, which took people years to achieve, and after it got to be more of a commonplace, they expanded to rr12, I believe, and currently (although I haven’t played in years) the cap is now rr13. Hence, the carrot on a stick.

http://camelotvault.ign.com/wiki/index.php/Realm_Ranks_and_Titles

but if the progression curve is infinite, then eventually power creep will make it mandatory. and mandatory grind is something areanet was specifically against.

But it’s simply a title progression curve, nothing more, nothing less. It’s not mandatory by any means, it just gives people who want to WvW more incentive to work towards something. If GW2 is the equivalent of an FPS mentality type of mmo, even the most successful FPS games have ranking systems and unlocks. BF3, CoD, MoH…they all have it. The gun unlocks make games slightly unbalanced until you’ve put enough time in, but the ranks themselves don’t affect the gameplay or make you better outside of the weapon unlocks. Skill still prevails.

but doesn’t every acheivment track in WVW already have titles? why aren’t you working for those?

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Posted by: ZeroLC.7893

ZeroLC.7893

That’s the point, you make the ceiling very high for progression, so that by the time people reach it, you’re already months down the road and they can raise the ceiling again. eg; daoc went to rr (realm rank)10, which took people years to achieve, and after it got to be more of a commonplace, they expanded to rr12, I believe, and currently (although I haven’t played in years) the cap is now rr13. Hence, the carrot on a stick.

http://camelotvault.ign.com/wiki/index.php/Realm_Ranks_and_Titles

but if the progression curve is infinite, then eventually power creep will make it mandatory. and mandatory grind is something areanet was specifically against.

But it’s simply a title progression curve, nothing more, nothing less. It’s not mandatory by any means, it just gives people who want to WvW more incentive to work towards something. If GW2 is the equivalent of an FPS mentality type of mmo, even the most successful FPS games have ranking systems and unlocks. BF3, CoD, MoH…they all have it. The gun unlocks make games slightly unbalanced until you’ve put enough time in, but the ranks themselves don’t affect the gameplay or make you better outside of the weapon unlocks. Skill still prevails.

but doesn’t every acheivment track in WVW already have titles? why aren’t you working for those?

They have a single achievement title, which happens after 5,000 WvW kills, and shows up only if you select it as a title, as you get titles for most everything. Combat healer for healing a certain amount of people. Been there, done that for people who did 100% map completion. There are actually titles designated for PvP (ie; Gladiator, Mercenary, Avenger, Ransacker, etc), but not for WvW, we only get Realm Avenger. But again, it only shows up if you click on the person, and look at the title underneath their character bar. Titles should show up as names of the invaders. So instead of just ‘invader from xyz server’, it’d be nice to get something like the PvP titles/ranks to appear above your head so it says something like ‘Mercenary from xyz server’ or whatever title GW2 decides to designate for each rank.

At least that way, you have an idea of who and what you’re going up against.

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Posted by: kitanas.3596

kitanas.3596

That’s the point, you make the ceiling very high for progression, so that by the time people reach it, you’re already months down the road and they can raise the ceiling again. eg; daoc went to rr (realm rank)10, which took people years to achieve, and after it got to be more of a commonplace, they expanded to rr12, I believe, and currently (although I haven’t played in years) the cap is now rr13. Hence, the carrot on a stick.

http://camelotvault.ign.com/wiki/index.php/Realm_Ranks_and_Titles

but if the progression curve is infinite, then eventually power creep will make it mandatory. and mandatory grind is something areanet was specifically against.

But it’s simply a title progression curve, nothing more, nothing less. It’s not mandatory by any means, it just gives people who want to WvW more incentive to work towards something. If GW2 is the equivalent of an FPS mentality type of mmo, even the most successful FPS games have ranking systems and unlocks. BF3, CoD, MoH…they all have it. The gun unlocks make games slightly unbalanced until you’ve put enough time in, but the ranks themselves don’t affect the gameplay or make you better outside of the weapon unlocks. Skill still prevails.

but doesn’t every acheivment track in WVW already have titles? why aren’t you working for those?

They have a single achievement title, which happens after 5,000 WvW kills, and shows up only if you select it as a title, as you get titles for most everything. Combat healer for healing a certain amount of people. Been there, done that for people who did 100% map completion. There are actually titles designated for PvP (ie; Gladiator, Mercenary, Avenger, Ransacker, etc), but not for WvW, we only get Realm Avenger. But again, it only shows up if you click on the person, and look at the title underneath their character bar. Titles should show up as names of the invaders. So instead of just ‘invader from xyz server’, it’d be nice to get something like the PvP titles/ranks to appear above your head so it says something like ‘Mercenary from xyz server’ or whatever title GW2 decides to designate for each rank.

At least that way, you have an idea of who and what you’re going up against.

uh actually there are multiple titles. If you look at the WVW acheivment page, the place where there is a number there is a crown, which signifies a title. there are titles for attacking/defending specific types of objective, using supply, and hunting/protecting dolyaks.

as for how visible they should be, I don’t actually have an opinion on that.

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Posted by: ZeroLC.7893

ZeroLC.7893

There are titles based on every PvE action, and most of the titles in WvW are PvE related. The only title purely based on kills is the first one and it caps out after 5,000 kills and it’s one title.

I’m not sticking around for years killing dolyak’s just to earn a ‘Yakslapper’ title, and neither will most people who have come here for RvR. They’re cutesy titles that are based on trivial PvE actions. Why would it be bad to want a ranking/tracking system for WvW?

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Posted by: kitanas.3596

kitanas.3596

There are titles based on every PvE action, and most of the titles in WvW are PvE related. The only title purely based on kills is the first one and it caps out after 5,000 kills and it’s one title.

I’m not sticking around for years killing dolyak’s just to earn a ‘Yakslapper’ title, and neither will most people who have come here for RvR. They’re cutesy titles that are based on trivial PvE actions. Why would it be bad to want a ranking/tracking system for WvW?

I’m sorry, assaulting stonemist is a ‘trivial PvE action’? and if all you care about is th kills, I’m not sure if I want you an your RvR fans. killing people is incidental to what WVW is about. WVW is about taking and holding objectives.

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Posted by: nofo.8469

nofo.8469

uh actually there are multiple titles. If you look at the WVW acheivment page, the place where there is a number there is a crown, which signifies a title. there are titles for attacking/defending specific types of objective, using supply, and hunting/protecting dolyaks.
as for how visible they should be, I don’t actually have an opinion on that.

I don’t think you understand what the person you are quoting is trying to say at all.

but if the progression curve is infinite, then eventually power creep will make it mandatory. and mandatory grind is something areanet was specifically against.

This discussion was had in the last thread too, this was marketed as a PvP MMO no? If PvP becomes a grind this game is dead already. Which it already is for a lot of people just tagging people in zergs for badges.

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Posted by: nofo.8469

nofo.8469

There are titles based on every PvE action, and most of the titles in WvW are PvE related. The only title purely based on kills is the first one and it caps out after 5,000 kills and it’s one title.

I’m not sticking around for years killing dolyak’s just to earn a ‘Yakslapper’ title, and neither will most people who have come here for RvR. They’re cutesy titles that are based on trivial PvE actions. Why would it be bad to want a ranking/tracking system for WvW?

I’m sorry, assaulting stonemist is a ‘trivial PvE action’? and if all you care about is th kills, I’m not sure if I want you an your RvR fans. killing people is incidental to what WVW is about. WVW is about taking and holding objectives.

I agree with you, but he has a point, most WvW titles are about trivial PvE stuff, killing Dolyak’s etc.

The keep example doesn’t apply because odds are people will be defending the keep, but still, achievements shouldn’t be awarded for PvD, do you agree with this?

If you don’t want RvR people in this game this game will be dead. This was marketed as a PvP game and its PvE content or its SPvP content will not give it lasting appeal.

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Posted by: ZeroLC.7893

ZeroLC.7893

There are titles based on every PvE action, and most of the titles in WvW are PvE related. The only title purely based on kills is the first one and it caps out after 5,000 kills and it’s one title.

I’m not sticking around for years killing dolyak’s just to earn a ‘Yakslapper’ title, and neither will most people who have come here for RvR. They’re cutesy titles that are based on trivial PvE actions. Why would it be bad to want a ranking/tracking system for WvW?

I’m sorry, assaulting stonemist is a ‘trivial PvE action’? and if all you care about is th kills, I’m not sure if I want you an your RvR fans. killing people is incidental to what WVW is about. WVW is about taking and holding objectives.

How many times have you assaulted Stonemist ? With already long queues for Eternal (mostly for the jumping puzzle), how often do you really get to assault Stonemist or let alone have a chance to defend it as most of the times when it switches hands, it’s during odd hours when normal people who have jobs and lives have to sleep? Why must I be relegated to WvW a specific way to earn titles that you can only select one at a time and really isn’t visible to anyone else, as opposed to some type of point system that can allow me to take Stonemist and earn some type of point system that goes towards my ranking and displayed title above my name that every opposing enemy can see? Why do you have an issue with players requesting a title/tracking system that only goes to serve to create additional competition between servers and players for a long period of time? Isn’t that what this game was designed around, and at it’s essence is what it’s supposed to be about?

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Posted by: kitanas.3596

kitanas.3596

There are titles based on every PvE action, and most of the titles in WvW are PvE related. The only title purely based on kills is the first one and it caps out after 5,000 kills and it’s one title.

I’m not sticking around for years killing dolyak’s just to earn a ‘Yakslapper’ title, and neither will most people who have come here for RvR. They’re cutesy titles that are based on trivial PvE actions. Why would it be bad to want a ranking/tracking system for WvW?

I’m sorry, assaulting stonemist is a ‘trivial PvE action’? and if all you care about is th kills, I’m not sure if I want you an your RvR fans. killing people is incidental to what WVW is about. WVW is about taking and holding objectives.

How many times have you assaulted Stonemist ? With already long queues for Eternal (mostly for the jumping puzzle), how often do you really get to assault Stonemist or let alone have a chance to defend it as most of the times when it switches hands, it’s during odd hours when normal people who have jobs and lives have to sleep? Why must I be relegated to WvW a specific way to earn titles that you can only select one at a time and really isn’t visible to anyone else, as opposed to some type of point system that can allow me to take Stonemist and earn some type of point system that goes towards my ranking and displayed title above my name that every opposing enemy can see? Why do you have an issue with players requesting a title/tracking system that only goes to serve to create additional competition between servers and players for a long period of time? Isn’t that what this game was designed around, and at it’s essence is what it’s supposed to be about?

more than you might think, considering I am a college student and thus can play at those “odd hours”

I am not inherently against title tracking system so long as it is done right. that means that it encourages you to play the objective and do whats best for the server to win. ad that’s the rub, because that is such a nebulous concept, what it entails is so complex and dynamic, that a simple stat could never encompass it. you are complaining about people going to EB for the jumping puzzle. I would have the same issue with people who were on to farm RR.

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Posted by: nofo.8469

nofo.8469

more than you might think, considering I am a college student and thus can play at those “odd hours”
I am not inherently against title tracking system so long as it is done right. that means that it encourages you to play the objective and do whats best for the server to win. ad that’s the rub, because that is such a nebulous concept, what it entails is so complex and dynamic, that a simple stat could never encompass it. you are complaining about people going to EB for the jumping puzzle. I would have the same issue with people who were on to farm RR.

As it stands at the moment, servers have nothing to lose if they get smashed in WvW so I fail to see how it is relevant, however if something worth fighting for was implemented then still, killing people from other servers is good for your server, if you are “farming” their server you have already won.

Some people would like their WvW to contain PvP aside from zerg vs zerg or PvD, this simple stat accomplishes that and much more.

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Posted by: ZeroLC.7893

ZeroLC.7893

But you aren’t the majority of players, but at this point you’re splitting hairs.

The point being, that’s what you’re clicking on the WvW button for: To WvW against a lot of other people

Isn’t that what you want, regardless of the intention/motivation behind it? Can’t the same be said for people who join casual pvp servers, to farm for pvp titles? If it gets the people out there, and keeps them going out there and competing, why do you care how or why they earn their points? How does that ruin your personal gameplay?

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Posted by: RoflandRoll.2810

RoflandRoll.2810

I’d like to see some gear that can only be gotten through badges or something.

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Posted by: Antiriad.7160

Antiriad.7160

What I don’t like about the RP idea as outlined above is that raw damage output decides how much credit you get.
I’m playing a support build that is able to stall a good number of players or to output a lot of AoE healing, and I get basically nothing for it. Except repair costs.
Currently you don’t get badges in wvw for supporting either, your only option is to go for outputting damage, damage, damage.
The repair cost that feel insulting paired with the lack of rewards for playing a support character is basically what makes me quit WvW an hour sooner than I’d like to, each day I play.

Colin ‘The Liar’ Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on equal power base.”

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Posted by: nofo.8469

nofo.8469

What I don’t like about the RP idea as outlined above is that raw damage output decides how much credit you get.
I’m playing a support build that is able to stall a good number of players or to output a lot of AoE healing, and I get basically nothing for it. Except repair costs.
Currently you don’t get badges in wvw for supporting either, your only option is to go for outputting damage, damage, damage.
The repair cost that feel insulting paired with the lack of rewards for playing a support character is basically what makes me quit WvW an hour sooner than I’d like to, each day I play.

edit: sorry read OP again and can see the misinformation

DAoC had classes that literally had 0 offensive output, none, nothing. Yet there were still r12/13s of this class?

How?

Simple, encouraging group play, the ammount of RP you get is determined by the ammount of damage your group does to the target.

This has the added benefit of encouraging group play, something that WvW seriously lacks. Don’t mistake group play for zerg play here.

(edited by nofo.8469)