Guild Wars 2

This week I’ve been kicked from CoE runs multiple times while the team was about finish the last alpha. This phenomena occurs anywhere gold is to be made in instances, and has existed since release. By now I’ve inferred that I must be getting on players nerves by either over or under-explaining the dungeon encounters/mechanics. So I get kicked for assuming they know the run (thereby not explaining enough), or kicked for assuming they don’t know the run (explaining too much/sounding condescending). Booted at anyone’s whim by anyone who can click a green check mark. Yet I can count on one hand the instances of players speaking up when asked if they are new to the dungeon. This is not a result of players lacking options to fill in when creating parties, it is a result of people not feeling obligated to treat others like people. It makes the game a dehumanizing experience, and I cannot for the life of me figure out why it needs to be this way.

The only times I don’t run into problems of this nature are when I form some derivation of the “zerker war exp only must ping gear” group. Under this mentality everything is cut and dry and I know what to expect, but it makes the entire process feel more like work than playing a game. As a result of the inability to track down my abusers I’m left sitting outside the dungeon entrance wondering why I even bothered to log-in in the first place. The immediate loss of chat history is a purposeful choice by developers, yet listing recent players you have partied with is a very common solution to this problem, and interestingly one that was present in GW1. You don’t have to show who initiated/finalized the kick, but you don’t have to protect the abusers either.

Personally, I believe forming pug groups is one of the things that makes the genre what it is, especially considering the addition of the lfg system. But how is this “kicking loophole” anything but an indication that the developers don’t care about the community, when it could be resolved in any number of different ways. When the system is set up to punish anyone who doesn’t have the energy for the elitism required to control the situation themselves there is a serious problem. I don’t want to feel obligated to screen shot everyone I party up with, nor is treating all players like villains a healthy choice for the community. It is an unrealistic expectation to suggest players only form non-pug groups to avoid this occurrence, and for many this is not even an option. I’m not always looking for the fastest run with the most statistically relevant professions, why should I be forced to judge others based on a predestined ideal of what makes a good player? As of right now it clearly seems to be that I’m punished if I don’t make others conform to this ideal. But without treating the group forming process with extreme prejudice I end up rolling the dice on whether or not the people I party with will decide to replace me as if I were an npc. How should I accept that regular player abuse is just a part of the game experience? I feel dehumanized by this apparent unimportance of the player in light of a passive affirmation that kicking players in this manner is an acceptable way to play. abusers are protected by a veil of anonymity, and I’m forced to learn to kick first or not play.

TLDR
Problem: The current party system creates an environment that protects abusers through the “kick” feature. This has been a ubiquitous problem since the games release. But continues to be overlooked by developers.
Proposed solution: Restore a “recent players” menu, such as was present in gw1, to give players the opportunity to report abuse without giving unnecessary information which could be used to grief others

Agreed. I’ve stopped running dungeons because of most of the points you made.
GW1 was far superior with grouping, as are most MMOs. GW2 needs to really step up and fix these issues. It should be top priority, since grouping and dungeons are some of the major features of the game.

can’t say I’ve had this happen to me so far, but I mostly stick to low level dungeons (AC, CM and TA, with a couple of Arah Story runs) …we did have a few quits by the instance owner though… and that sucked

either way, i’ve heard many that had this happen to them and it does seem to be a real problem, so yeah… it needs fixing

This is why I never pug dungeons, I only run dungeons with guildies.

I have experienced a similar problem. During December 2013 both myself and a few guild mates have been kicked out of dungeons because even though we posted a certain path for example in the Ascalonian Catacombs we posted path 1 or simply p 1, after the new members appeared they kicked us out because they wanted a different way to proceed and subsequently they kicked us out, even the dungeon person.
I propose the following solution: in the looking for group tool add an additional sub-menu for each dungeon except fractals in order for players to understand lane each player wants to follow.Indeed this is extra work to add lines in the code, but I bealive that they are necessary in order for us players to keep doing dungeons using the beta tool. And if the situation keeps repeating itself I stand with:

nsenger.2694:

This week I’ve been kicked from CoE runs multiple times while the team was about finish the last alpha. This phenomena occurs anywhere gold is to be made in instances, and has existed since release. By now I’ve inferred that I must be getting on players nerves by either over or under-explaining the dungeon encounters/mechanics. So I get kicked for assuming they know the run (thereby not explaining enough), or kicked for assuming they don’t know the run (explaining too much/sounding condescending). Booted at anyone’s whim by anyone who can click a green check mark. Yet I can count on one hand the instances of players speaking up when asked if they are new to the dungeon. This is not a result of players lacking options to fill in when creating parties, it is a result of people not feeling obligated to treat others like people. It makes the game a dehumanizing experience, and I cannot for the life of me figure out why it needs to be this way.

The only times I don’t run into problems of this nature are when I form some derivation of the “zerker war exp only must ping gear” group. Under this mentality everything is cut and dry and I know what to expect, but it makes the entire process feel more like work than playing a game. As a result of the inability to track down my abusers I’m left sitting outside the dungeon entrance wondering why I even bothered to log-in in the first place. The immediate loss of chat history is a purposeful choice by developers, yet listing recent players you have partied with is a very common solution to this problem, and interestingly one that was present in GW1. You don’t have to show who initiated/finalized the kick, but you don’t have to protect the abusers either.

Personally, I believe forming pug groups is one of the things that makes the genre what it is, especially considering the addition of the lfg system. But how is this “kicking loophole” anything but an indication that the developers don’t care about the community, when it could be resolved in any number of different ways. When the system is set up to punish anyone who doesn’t have the energy for the elitism required to control the situation themselves there is a serious problem. I don’t want to feel obligated to screen shot everyone I party up with, nor is treating all players like villains a healthy choice for the community. It is an unrealistic expectation to suggest players only form non-pug groups to avoid this occurrence, and for many this is not even an option. I’m not always looking for the fastest run with the most statistically relevant professions, why should I be forced to judge others based on a predestined ideal of what makes a good player? As of right now it clearly seems to be that I’m punished if I don’t make others conform to this ideal. But without treating the group forming process with extreme prejudice I end up rolling the dice on whether or not the people I party with will decide to replace me as if I were an npc. How should I accept that regular player abuse is just a part of the game experience? I feel dehumanized by this apparent unimportance of the player in light of a passive affirmation that kicking players in this manner is an acceptable way to play. abusers are protected by a veil of anonymity, and I’m forced to learn to kick first or not play.

TLDR
Problem: The current party system creates an environment that protects abusers through the “kick” feature. This has been a ubiquitous problem since the games release. But continues to be overlooked by developers.
Proposed solution: Restore a “recent players” menu, such as was present in gw1, to give players the opportunity to report abuse without giving unnecessary information which could be used to grief others

I love doing dungeons and playing this game, I hope this detail doesn’t persist. I can dream that ArenaNet is making new dungeons for us players to enjoy. I look forward for when these new quality of life features are implemented.

i’ve been kicked one for not being all out zerker spec. On the long run i haven’t lost any thing, i formed another run and it went quicker.

There’s a very easy way to circumvent all this trouble you’re having. ALWAYS be the instance owner. Nobody will kick you.

for the system to improve, a group of players need to do the same.
i would love to do dungeons but with the mentality we have now (need full geared, need to know the “run”, you have to prove your worth, etc…) i don’t even want to bother, in GW1 it didn’t mater because if a player was not so good or never played the dungeon others were more then happy to help out.
that’s the real problem here, ppl, it’s not entirely the problem of the system, it’s mostly the player base that loves to go all maxed out and doesn’t have any room anymore to simply help out.

Sorry you keep getting kicked. But yeah, the reason we don’t speak out is because you get kicked if you don’t know the run at all.

Also, I completely agree. I wish the elitists would keep it in the guild and not get angry when randomly finding someone to join the group isn’t up to spec. It really isn’t the systems fault, except it should require 4/5 to kick not just whoever clicks in the time allotted to vote or if you’re the leader.

I came to this forum to make a post like this but found yours instead.
There have been plenty of times where I’ve been kicked from a dungeon for no explainable reason but this time i’m just too annoyed by it to let it go.

Just now I’ve been kicked from a lvl 19 fractal run (my personal lvl is 39). My party was inexperienced, they struggled at the arms in the colossus fractal and the pressure plates at dredge. I wasn’t toxic or high and mighty about it, just told them how to deal with it and tried my best to get them trough. I did sense that they were annoyed with me so I asked them in party chat if they were planning on kicking me, if they were I would leave before investing any more of my time (it’s not like i could stop them if i wanted to). They assured me they wouldn’t and I carried on, 2 hours in and at the last fractal they kicked me. The chat log disappeared but 1 of them used the /bow emote at the colossus so i was able to track him down and whispered that he was reported. He told me he did not vote on the kick, eventually 1 of the guys who did kick me contacted me. Upon asking them why they kicked me the answer was: ‘Because you don’t know how to play and you speak too much’. image of the conversation after the kick: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/kHqjHA5l.jpg?1[/IMG] (black is the guy i managed to contact first, red is the one who started the kick).

When I reported them I noticed there were only a few options available, none of which i felt were appropriate for my case. I’m a bit disappointed that there was no separate text box available where i could explain why i reported them.

TLDR
- Some whining about getting kicked during a fractal run
- Erasing chat helps the abusers, most of the time you don’t remember their user name so it’s impossible to report them.
- 2 friends that play together can vote kick anybody they don’t like from a party of 5 people. You can argue that it’s 50% of the available votes, however it seems to me that if either one of them doesn’t like you the other one will likely aid in the kick. Either increase the amount of votes needed or add a do not kick vote for the others that don’t want you gone.
- The report feature is too limiting, either add more options or add the ‘none of the above’ option. I would like to see a text box where the player filing the report can explain the situation.

I sincerely hope that anet will address this issue in the future. This kind of abuse has been around for a long time and it’s not the first time that i’m a victim.

The Kickvote system needs a revision.
Two out of 5 players should not be able to kick one player. At least two “seconds” (rather confirms) should be needed (3 of 5 = majority)
One also should be able to vote “no” (why can’t one vote “no” to a votekick?).

And Kickvoting should have a backfire: If 3 of 5 say no (including the one being voted out), the one initiating the kick vote should be kicked instead. If it is the instance owner, transfer instance ownership or clone the instance, then initiate the kick.

In it’s current state, vote-kicking is abusable.