Guild Wars 2

If the whole point of the system was so that you could play the game with your lower level friends and not make it too easy for them, then why is it forced on you 100% of the time?

Why is this as an issue? Because one of the BIGGEST reasons for playing an RPG is to progress to higher power levels consistently, and feel powerful. The level scaling system at level 80 makes it feel like I just bought a new Porsche but I have to park it on certain streets to ride my bike.

In traditional RPGs, as I leveled up I got a really good feel for how my power was increasing by getting familiar with the numbers I was hitting for and my hitpoints, etc… and it was fun to see direct effects from gear or level increases. GW2 is lacking this fun aspect of RPGs and it’s completely due to that fact that the level scaling distorts your character progression.

pkbot.1345:

I would much rather not have my character stats constantly distorted than participate in low level content. I understand this wouldn’t be a preference for everyone; but what is the harm in making it optional?

pkbot.1345:

Writetyper.1985:

I don’t see the logic in this, where is the entertainment in going to a low level zone where you one shot everything, where the challenge is even less than in regular PvE? Where is the fun in pressing 1 and seeing things get 1 shot? Do you want to show off? You basically want to run around a low level zone going “Hah!~ I’ve played the game longer than you!” to lower level players? Do you realize how rediculous that sounds?

It’s bad enough anyway. There’s no reason to go back to a lower level zone because rewards are not scaled. There’s also the added fact that the downscaling system doesn’t seem to work properly and on top of that you also have tri-stat gear, full traits, and runes that lower level players simply don’t have. Why would you want to make it worse?

Also if you want to one-shot things to fulfill some ridiculous desire, there are rabbits and rats and stuff everywhere.

Alright, I’m going to choose you to respond to out of the handful of other people in this thread that aren’t really getting this post.

This change is not so “You can go one shot everything in low level zones”. It’s to improve the RPG/leveling/powering up aspect of GW2 because if I had the “Level Scaling” option unchecked from 1 to 80, it would’ve been a much more clear and understandable experience.

As opposed to:

Cool, I’ve built up my character to 5,000 hp and with my new weapon my basic attacks are hitting for 300!

2 seconds later

I have 3,000 hp and I’m hitting for 200..

With this fluctuation constantly going on, it is hard to get that classic RPG leveling up feeling that we all know and love.

The reason I think it should be optional is because I agree with you all, the dynamic leveling scaling system allows for a lot of freedom when it comes to exploration and playing with your lower leveling friends. But given that there are some clear negative sides to it, I was putting it out there for the community and the devs to consider these changes, as I would have a lot more fun leveling my alts with that option unchecked.

So people don’t steamroll through the low level areas and dungeons. People would just get their friends to boost them through quests and events. Where’s the fun in 1 shotting everything?

I don’t know about you pkbot, but I find going back to low level areas when fully geared with exotics makes them much easier.

If you want to know how strong you are, go to Orr. Going to lower leveling zones and doing more damage or even one shotting enemies won’t prove anything.

Turgut.4397:

So people don’t steamroll through the low level areas and dungeons. People would just get their friends to boost them through quests and events. Where’s the fun in 1 shotting everything?

As if the solution isn’t obvious… If you’re not scaled down you get no experience or loot from enemies outside your level range. It turns it into a more traditional approach to leveling, but in my honest opinion, that’s what they should’ve done. It’s less fun overall the way they have it now.

I would much rather not have my character stats constantly distorted than participate in low level content. I understand, this wouldn’t be a preference for everyone; but what is the harm in making it optional?

I personally like going back and still getting xp and such. I think it was a really good idea for them to implement.

It’s a RPG not a Hack’n Slash. There is no fun when everything die when you sneeze.

As a level 80 in a low level zone you have your exotic gear, your full damage weapon, your elite skills, your runes, your sigils, your master traits, … so you’re still way more powerful than a newbie.

Not to mention that many recent RPGs have such a somehow similar system (mobs get stronger as you level up. Skyrim I think is one of them)

“If you’re not scaled down you get no experience or loot from enemies outside your level range.”

Yes lets make finding people in low level zones an even more rare phenomenon.

My only issue with the scaling is when it drops my level way under the mobs. Earlier I had my level dropped to 74 and started fighting a level 80 mob before I realized that I was about to get my kitten handed to me and ran.

you’re basically a god anyway

For one thing it would open up a lot of potential for griefing. Imagine how frustrating it would be if you were trying to level in a low-level area and every time a DE started a group of level 80’s came through and 1-shotted everything before you got a chance to even hit it so you couldn’t get any credit for the event?

I actually experienced that during my brief time trying out WoW – I was trying to do one of the “Kill 10 rats” type quests outside Stormwind and 2 higher level players came through, killed every single one of the enemies we were supposed to find, laughed about it and then stood there openly debating whether they should wait for them to respawn and do it again or move on to griefing someone else. Personally I’m very glad it’s not really an option in this game.

I agree; make all mobs lvl 1, reduce all characters to lvl 1, and disable experience gains.

um i think he meant an option so you can turn it off when needed so you would still be able to level down to the zones area level or turn it off and be lvl 80. to keep friends from boosting others in instances anyways could always just make it so when it a party in that specific zone you match the level like now according to the lowest leveled player in party. and to help the world events same thing you get leveled down for those etc so it would only benefit 80s by themselves etc

Sounds like someone likes playing solo.

Shufflepants.9785:

I agree; make all mobs lvl 1, reduce all characters to lvl 1, and disable experience gains.

Sounds great to me.

pkbot.1345:

Because one of the BIGGEST reasons for playing an RPG is to progress to higher power levels consistently, and feel powerful.

Nope. That’s why grinders play most MMORPGs, but that has never been the focus of good RPGs.

I can just imagine a large portion of players like yourself steam rolling low level zones. Yes, yes the picture is clear and full of win….FOR YOU ONLY.

You get scaled so that lower level players have a chance to do anything. Your gear and better stats make you stronger than those players anyways.

In a word: No. IMHO this is one of the (if not THE) single most attractive features in GW2 – the dynamic scaling of players.

Personally, I wish they would of gone FURTHER with it and nerfed everyones armor and weapons as well. (simply scaling down ones HP is not enough)

The current scaling makes unexplored lower level areas actually interesting. I’m all for it.

MaRko.3165:

Personally, I wish they would of gone FURTHER with it and nerfed everyones armor and weapons as well. (simply scaling down ones HP is not enough)

All of your stats are scaled down when you go through specific areas of a zone. Open up your character panel and look at your stats when you’re in a lower level area. All of the stats in green are your current stats in that area.

If you’re in all exotics and go to a lvl 35 area, your damage and abilities act as though you’re in exotics at lvl 35 roughly.

Thing with level scaling is you never feel how powerful you really are. There should be a bit of “realism” to your character. Think about….if your character were real would he all of a sudden lose power just because he traveled to a particular area? No. Scaling mostly sucks because it is a barrier, especially to those who solo. I agree pk bot ..there should be an optional feature to turn it on and off. Some classes like the elementalist are darn near impossible to play in some areas as a solo character and especially you personal story. I predict they will correct this in the future. Right now I am stuck in my personal story and cannot advance. This is a MAJOR problem.

Shade.6081:

Some classes like the elementalist are kitten near impossible to play in some areas as a solo character and especially you personal story.

I main an Ele, solo the world, and solo’d the personal story (except the final mission, obviously) with no issue whatsoever. It was even my first haracter so I had no idea what to expect or how to really play for a while.

Why would anyone want to turn off dynamic levelling anyways? You would no longer gain level-appropriate drops and experience, making it pointless. I see zero gain from having this option.

Shade.6081:

Right now I am stuck in my personal story and cannot advance. This is a MAJOR problem.

Nope, that’s great. In other MMOs, people can simply “outgrind” challenging content by acquiring more levels and better gear. With level scalling, it isn’t so easy – grinding is only taking people so far. Any challenging content cannot be simply outgrinded, it requires a minimum of skill. And that is exactly as it should be: skill > time spent.

The only issue is that level scaling is not strong enough. A level 80 character in exotics in a level 30 area should be downscalled to be like a level 30 character with level 30 green gear; the stat bonuses from traits should be negated, although the level 80 character would still have an advantage due to having the other effects of traits and access to more kinds of skills.

Shade.6081:

Thing with level scaling is you never feel how powerful you really are. There should be a bit of “realism” to your character. Think about….if your character were real would he all of a sudden lose power just because he traveled to a particular area? No. Scaling mostly sucks because it is a barrier, especially to those who solo. I agree pk bot ..there should be an optional feature to turn it on and off. Some classes like the elementalist are darn near impossible to play in some areas as a solo character and especially you personal story. I predict they will correct this in the future. Right now I am stuck in my personal story and cannot advance. This is a MAJOR problem.

Yes, let’s add in some realism into the game: You no longer gain levels, nearly every mob can 1 or 2 shot you if you let them hit you, and if you die, you must re-roll a new character because your old one is dead. </sarcasm>

That aside, if you are appropriately leveled for the personal story you are attempting and it is too hard, this is clearly a “learn to play” issue as most people are able to easily solo personal story missions and a fair amount of people are capable of soloing most champions in the game (albeit very slowly). There is no shame in admitting you are not the best player so long as you can admit this and aim to improve. I would recommend going to the forum for your main profession, describing your normal approaches to your build, weapon choice, and combat tactics and ask for help in how you can improve.

Thanks Shufflepants. I willingly admit I am not the best player, however this issue is not just mine…I have read this many many times regarding some classes and soloing. It is a problem and if not corrected to some extent this game will never ascend to the potential it has and may fail completely. Only time will tell. And my “realism” comment was one of a common sense relating to a game and not actual real life.
Some things have to be “unrealistic” such as regenerating your life. Scaling is NOT one of those.

If you take out level scaling, then you would also have to take away our option of getting drops appropriate for our level. Otherwise, why would a level 80 hang out in a level 80 area if he can one shot level 5’s and get the same loot?

pkbot.1345:

If the whole point of the system was so that you could play the game with your lower level friends and not make it too easy for them, then why is it forced on you 100% of the time?

Why is this as an issue? Because one of the BIGGEST reasons for playing an RPG is to progress to higher power levels consistently, and feel powerful. The level scaling system at level 80 makes it feel like I just bought a new Porsche but I have to park it on certain streets to ride my bike.

In traditional RPGs, as I leveled up I got a really good feel for how my power was increasing by getting familiar with the numbers I was hitting for and my hitpoints, etc… and it was fun to see direct effects from gear or level increases. GW2 is lacking this fun aspect of RPGs and it’s completely due to that fact that the level scaling distorts your character progression.

pkbot.1345:

I would much rather not have my character stats constantly distorted than participate in low level content. I understand this wouldn’t be a preference for everyone; but what is the harm in making it optional?

Having been in MMOs for 20 years and can tell you with full assurance an MMORPG is not:

“Because one of the BIGGEST reasons for playing an RPG is to progress to higher power levels consistently, and feel powerful.”

The ORIGINAL “biggest” part of an MMORPG was to Roleplay.

Being the most powerful is something that is not a cornerstone of a MMORPG. This is something that really didn’t become a big deal until World Of Warcraft which is why it is said with a bitter taste in most folks mouth when it is mentioned.

What Anet has done with the Dynamic leveling is to truly allow for those that like to RP to do so. Also for those that truly wish to play with the RL friends to do so as well.

Your post speaks of someone that:

1) really does not have much time invested in MMORPGs

2) wants to be the big kid on the block ie the bully.

My suggestions:

1) research before you post.

2) People hate bullies

3) Bullies are in reality very immature people who seek to cause harm to people they think below them or weaker then them(the latter one is especially wrong). So it is time to rethink your life style if this is how you think.

4) harassment is against the rules of this game and bullying qualifies as such

5) Learn to work with the rules, dynamics, and mechanics of this game or go back to WoW.

Guild Wars 2 is one of the best returns to a truly balanced game system I have seen in over a decade. It is not going to change. You are going to have to change.

pkbot.1345:

As if the solution isn’t obvious… If you’re not scaled down you get no experience or loot from enemies outside your level range. It turns it into a more traditional approach to leveling, but in my honest opinion, that’s what they should’ve done. It’s less fun overall the way they have it now.

I would much rather not have my character stats constantly distorted than participate in low level content. I understand, this wouldn’t be a preference for everyone; but what is the harm in making it optional?

Because you will get the people who will abuse it to grief events.

As it stands, scaling isn’t harsh enough, and going to a lower level area really doesn’t dent the amount of damage you can put out.

To each their own I suppose…I think the level scaling is one of my favorite things in this game.

I think there are many things wrong with GW2.. but kitten down-scaling is the best! Why would you want to 1 shot everything?

Lol @ all those who are like “OMG! WTF! That would never work!”…but haven’t checked out RIFT’s mentoring system.
Scale yourself down to the required level = Get loot equivalent to your real level and a bonus exp for your max level skillpoint stuff.
Obviously you’re significantly weaker, but you get better loot for the challenge.

If you go into AC story now, and get scaled fown from 80 to 35, you still, for some reason, get level 1 gear drops.

If someone’s already done it, without much of an issue, then It’s not impossible to add it to GW2. It’s be a positive change at least.

CoRtex.2157:

I think there are many things wrong with GW2.. but kitten down-scaling is the best! Why would you want to 1 shot everything?

One shotting is the desire of someone who desires attention that is lacking somewhere else and/or making up for a lack of skill.

pkbot.1345:

Turgut.4397:

So people don’t steamroll through the low level areas and dungeons. People would just get their friends to boost them through quests and events. Where’s the fun in 1 shotting everything?

As if the solution isn’t obvious… If you’re not scaled down you get no experience or loot from enemies outside your level range. It turns it into a more traditional approach to leveling, but in my honest opinion, that’s what they should’ve done. It’s less fun overall the way they have it now.

I would much rather not have my character stats constantly distorted than participate in low level content. I understand, this wouldn’t be a preference for everyone; but what is the harm in making it optional?

high levels run in, kill everything for cheap loot, sell cheap loot in high quantities, nobody can level. This system is a must have for the game to work.

“Part of growing up and becoming a man is going back to an elementary school playground and pushing little kids around to show how powerful you’ve become.”

Yeah, real fun.

Just so we’re clear, you measure how powerful you’re character is by taking on the toughest fights in the game, not the easiest.

I vote no on this one, I am also more for steeper scaling, we are still too strong and it goes against intent.

darkace.8925:

“Part of growing up and becoming a man is going back to an elementary school playground and pushing little kids around to show how powerful you’ve become.”

Yeah, real fun.

Just so we’re clear, you measure how powerful you’re character is by taking on the toughest fights in the game, not the easiest.

I’ll go a step further. It is also a measure of the person controlling the character.

Horrorscope.7632:

I vote no on this one, I am also more for steeper scaling, we are still too strong and it goes against intent.

agree with this scaling is way too soft ATM, even on my lvl 80 condition dmg memser using staff(the mesmer weapon with the lowest direct dmg in itself) with like only 20 or so power over the base power i still 2-3 shots stuffs in the lowest lvl areas… which makes those areas really boring…

we are in pve open world. u turn off scaling as lvl 80. im lvl 1 and have scaling turned on… how exactly would that work?

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

we are in pve open world. u turn off scaling as lvl 80. im lvl 1 and have scaling turned on… how exactly would that work?

dont think it would be a problem technically tbh, if they can make harvest nodes specific for each player sure they could have different scaling for each player, if anything taht would be even easier, but ofc a i said earlier there is other problems with it so it should absolutetly not even be considered

It’s to make it fair for others plus it’s not always fun being the god and the strongest in the area. It’s actually pretty interesting to know that you are just one single person. no matter how powerful you are, you will always die from something small if you’re reckless. Pretty much reminds me on how real life works.

Have you ever gone to a starter zone as a level 80 character?

Trust me, you’ll feel more powerful, so much so in fact that I hope one day we see implementations of a ‘hard mode’ choice for low-level zones so high level players are challenged a bit more in them.

Cowrex.9564:

It’s to make it fair for others plus it’s not always fun being the god and the strongest in the area. It’s actually pretty interesting to know that you are just one single person. no matter how powerful you are, you will always die from something small if you’re reckless. Pretty much reminds me on how real life works.

and yet sandly you cant really die in ares where the mobds are lvl 7 or so and lower, unless you deliberatly let them beat on you for like what? 10 minutes+ while doing absolutetly nothing currently, really really wish the scaling were more harsh in the lowest area’s

GummiBear.2756:

Cowrex.9564:

It’s to make it fair for others plus it’s not always fun being the god and the strongest in the area. It’s actually pretty interesting to know that you are just one single person. no matter how powerful you are, you will always die from something small if you’re reckless. Pretty much reminds me on how real life works.

and yet sandly you cant really die in ares where the mobds are lvl 7 or so and lower, unless you deliberatly let them beat on you for like what? 10 minutes+ while doing absolutetly nothing currently, really really wish the scaling were more harsh in the lowest area’s

While true, the scaling down just keeps it realistic (Although it’s a fantasy game, things are not meant to be realistic but still). That’s just in my opinion though so I am not sure how you guys view it

pkbot.1345:

Turgut.4397:

So people don’t steamroll through the low level areas and dungeons. People would just get their friends to boost them through quests and events. Where’s the fun in 1 shotting everything?

As if the solution isn’t obvious… If you’re not scaled down you get no experience or loot from enemies outside your level range. It turns it into a more traditional approach to leveling, but in my honest opinion, that’s what they should’ve done. It’s less fun overall the way they have it now.

That would be contrary to the stated goal of making it possible for you to group with your low-level friends without making it either too easy for them (by preventing traditional powerlevelling schemes), or too worthless for you (by making it possible to give you drops/xp/karma according to your real level)

Cowrex.9564:

GummiBear.2756:

Cowrex.9564:

It’s to make it fair for others plus it’s not always fun being the god and the strongest in the area. It’s actually pretty interesting to know that you are just one single person. no matter how powerful you are, you will always die from something small if you’re reckless. Pretty much reminds me on how real life works.

and yet sandly you cant really die in ares where the mobds are lvl 7 or so and lower, unless you deliberatly let them beat on you for like what? 10 minutes+ while doing absolutetly nothing currently, really really wish the scaling were more harsh in the lowest area’s

While true, the scaling down just keeps it realistic (Although it’s a fantasy game, things are not meant to be realistic but still). That’s just in my opinion though so I am not sure how you guys view it

how is it realistic if i go outside in the wild somwhere and find say a boar to try kill it with some kind of melee weapon, it sure will give me a hell of a fight. then i go out in the wolrd and fight a lot of differnet opoening both animals and humans and whatever else you can think of to fight, and come back a couple months or even a year later to same area find a new boar in same area and try kill it with the same type of weapon, and i can assure you it would STILL give one hell of a fight for its life (sure i might ahve giotten better at fighting but i would still ahve to watch not getting killed by it) so making the scaling MORE harsh would in fact be waht made it more “realistic”
BUt then again why talka bout realism in a game where some classess fling magic left and right, and teleport from one spot to the other in and instant… sure is the right game to talk about what is and waht is not realistic :rolleyes:

GummiBear.2756:

Cowrex.9564:

GummiBear.2756:

Cowrex.9564:

It’s to make it fair for others plus it’s not always fun being the god and the strongest in the area. It’s actually pretty interesting to know that you are just one single person. no matter how powerful you are, you will always die from something small if you’re reckless. Pretty much reminds me on how real life works.

and yet sandly you cant really die in ares where the mobds are lvl 7 or so and lower, unless you deliberatly let them beat on you for like what? 10 minutes+ while doing absolutetly nothing currently, really really wish the scaling were more harsh in the lowest area’s

While true, the scaling down just keeps it realistic (Although it’s a fantasy game, things are not meant to be realistic but still). That’s just in my opinion though so I am not sure how you guys view it

how is it realistic if i go outside in the wild somwhere and find say a boar to try kill it with some kind of melee weapon, it sure will give me a hell of a fight. then i go out in the wolrd and fight a lot of differnet opoening both animals and humans and whatever else you can think of to fight, and come back a couple months or even a year later to same area find a new boar in same area and try kill it with the same type of weapon, and i can assure you it would STILL give one hell of a fight for its life (sure i might ahve giotten better at fighting but i would still ahve to watch not getting killed by it) so making the scaling MORE harsh would in fact be waht made it more “realistic”
BUt then again why talka bout realism in a game where some classess fling magic left and right, and teleport from one spot to the other in and instant… sure is the right game to talk about what is and waht is not realistic :rolleyes:

Alrighty then… you made your point but I going back to the topic, I believe that the scaling is done right in terms of the lore, game play and social aspects

I wonder how long it would be actually “fun” to onehit everything in a lower level area. From my experience there is no reason at all to go back to a lower level area once you have done all quests or are not that keen on the leftout quests. (Which means you go back for the quest and not for the experience of beeing the ultimate hero.)

Most lower level areas in other games are more or less empty or filled with people in the fitting levelrange. If there are higher people they have a reason to be there like a special skin or something. And several of those are often enough playing out their advantage over lower people by killing the mob before anyone else can do it etc. I personally don’t know anyone who goes back constantly to an area where he can onehit everything only to feel stronger.

So it might be fun once or twice but then it’s pretty much pointless.

What makes me happy is fact that ANet is not kindergarden. They are pursuing they artistic visions of their own project and are not obligated to fullfil whims of individuals with ego problems.
You want to oneshot things? Go kill rabbits and bird they are everywhere. Go now and show them who’s da boss…

kRiza krimos.1637:

What makes me happy is fact that ANet is not kindergarden. They are pursuing they artistic visions of their own project and are not obligated to fullfil whims of individuals with ego problems.
You want to oneshot things? Go kill rabbits and bird they are everywhere. Go now and show them who’s da boss…

That’s an awesome way to put it

pkbot.1345:

Why is this as an issue? Because one of the BIGGEST reasons for playing an RPG is to progress to higher power levels consistently, and feel powerful. The level scaling system at level 80 makes it feel like I just bought a new Porsche but I have to park it on certain streets to ride my bike.

I don’t see the logic in this, where is the entertainment in going to a low level zone where you one shot everything, where the challenge is even less than in regular PvE? Where is the fun in pressing 1 and seeing things get 1 shot? Do you want to show off? You basically want to run around a low level zone going “Hah!~ I’ve played the game longer than you!” to lower level players? Do you realize how rediculous that sounds?

It’s bad enough anyway. There’s no reason to go back to a lower level zone because rewards are not scaled. There’s also the added fact that the downscaling system doesn’t seem to work properly and on top of that you also have tri-stat gear, full traits, and runes that lower level players simply don’t have. Why would you want to make it worse?

Also if you want to one-shot things to fulfill some ridiculous desire, there are rabbits and rats and stuff everywhere.

You must not be doing something right if you’re not flying through low level zones with your lvl 80…

And to answer your question… it’s because my thief would take out mobs infinitely fast with cluster bomb and just fly through…

yeah and give us full legendary/ascended/exotic too so we have nothing to work towards. make dungeons auto win as soon as you enter. spawn 50000000000 chests at your starting location every time you log in. give us wings so we an fly through the jumping puzzles. a free everlasting black lion teleport so i can teleport anywhere in the world at any time. a combine harvester mount so i don’t have to chop and harvest anything by hand.

gogo 100% automatically map

Yes .. I’m a casual gamer!

I have mental problems and only 2 fingers on the hand!