Guild Wars 2

I’ll agree with you that GW1 was indeed a hard game, but GW2 not so much. They made everything so simple that you barely need to think how or what to do in order to “beat” the game, you just run around and start hitting things and sooner or later you will eventually get 100% world completion or finish the story mode. In GW1, just finishing the story levels was sometimes very challenging, and getting all bonus missions even harder. The achievements in GW1 were on a whole other level where you really needed to play and plan things well to get. I’m not satisfied with how casual it all is in GW2. I also want hard mode of some sort in, but that probably won’t happen because people are already crying how hard the game is and want an easy mode instead…

I do not support this…

I love the level downscaling, the point of GW2 isn’t leveling and imo an RPG does not need leveling.
The story, the feeling, the battle machanics, the choices, the interactions, the people, the new gear, the achievment’s, the humor and much more is what makes an RPG.
I have lost 5 friends from GW2 since they leveled to 80 in one week and now they think they are done with this game, I have told them ‘You have missed the whole point of Guild Wars, it’s your loss.’

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

I do not support this…

I love the level downscaling, the point of GW2 isn’t leveling and imo an RPG does not need leveling.
The story, the feeling, the battle machanics, the choices, the interactions, the people, the new gear, the achievment’s, the humor and much more is what makes an RPG.
I have lost 5 friends from GW2 since they leveled to 80 in one week and now they think they are done with this game, I have told them ‘You have missed the whole point of Guild Wars, it’s your loss.’

Exactly my stance on this as well.

Yea, I am a fan of the downscaling system.

Best system I have seen so far that keeps the entire game interesting to some extent…

This is one of GW’s base mechanics.

Asking to remove this is like asking to remove a profession, or a race, or jumping, or dodging, or all skills, or events, or dungeons.

It’s simply not going to happen.

I enjoy sidekicking as is… fwiw

The Downscaling System is total BS and obsolete.
If this game would actually have a really good and functionating dynamic Upscaling System, what is the only system that is needed in this game basically, then there would be no DSS at all.

But instead people are making here only again and again wild kittenumptions as if they are the absolute fortunetellers knowing everything, what will happen in future, without having any clues at all about what they are saying, because there is absolutely no PROOF at all, that anything what they are predicting like pro prophets will happen actually at all, if there would be no DSS anymore.
I can suggest only this to everyone:

Please stop making ridiculous wild assumptions permantly and start staying on the true facts that are proven!

As if the game would instantly get invaded by countless players, which have nothng better to do in their live, that to grief other players with their doings like a new plague overwhelming the game, when the gam#s actually rewarding players for playing together. The is no such ridiculous thing in this game, like “Kill Stealing”, as when there are rewards, they are for EVERYBODY.
When a Monster drops loot, its for anyone.

GW2 needs no Down Scalign System. WHat GW2 needs is a correct and very good functionating intelligent dynamic Up Scaling System, that isn’t based on Map Levels, but instead on participating Character Levels.

Means exatly this:

Current System = Map Level is say 50, Lvl 80 Chara gets downscaled to 50, lvl 40 Character has to level up first, to be able to survive there = GRIND

My System = Map Level is 50, lvl 80 character gets not downscaled, Enemies and other Players in near of that Lvl80 player get upscaled to Lvl 80 temporarely.
That way there are no 1Hit Kills, that way there is no Grind for too low leveled characters, that wan’t to help their friends, but can’t because their level is too low for the map

But the whole point here about the topic of Character Progression is something totally different, what nearly nobody here is grasping at all, because all those people with their wild assumptions here are way too much FIXATED on NUMBERS..

These kind of people here.. and I don’t want to look at anybody, nor do call names… surely would define Character progression sadly only with 1 single stupid question, which would be:

“How much damage does my character deal?” /facepalm

Character Progression is much much…
muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch MORE, than only the irrelevant question about if my Character can 1 hit kill something, or not, but what is in fact here in this this the most stubborn nonsense I’ve kept on reading here so far as I was overviewing today this thread with my Iphone from my workplace on at my breaktime.

Character Progression is all about, how a character is developing over time, how a character is changing over time from a non known nobody into a mighty hero with such a great presence, that you absolutely can’t oversee them anywhere on battlefields.

People which care about, if anyone else besides them can 1 hit kill something, are really just pure whiners.
GW2 absolutely totally lacks in giving the player the right feeling about character proression, except for traits, the elite skill, which absotely all aren’t worth it to be really callec elite skills at all mostly and the unlocking of the very very few utility skills, from which are 90% totally useless and underpowered most of the time or just only useful in very few little situations of the game and in the majority of the game never ever…

Characters absolutely develop themself over the course of the game so far.
this is maybe just a thing, what will get improved over time, as the game is still at its beginning and we wil hopefully see many Add Ons in future ect. to improve the game into the right direction to eliminate this massive lacking of character progression, but the current things that the game is offering for people which love character progression, are juts utterly underwhelming and disappointing…

Part 2 following:

Part 2:

This doesn’t mean, that these kind of people including me are just only then happy, if we can turn our characters into merely half gods which can kill just everything with 1 strike – this is just false – but the only thing that OP is suggesting here and that is the real thing, that basically nearly nobody except Shade was grasping here is, that GW2 isn#t showing anything yet of its great potential this game could have to deliver the players also a great way of character development over the course of playing the game, so that those people which strive for the feeling of becoming more powerful over the course of time and enjoy to see the results of their plying in becoming able to do things in the game, where they were not able to do these things much earlier in the game as beginners with their feelable much weaker characters in the past.

When I speak of Character Progression, then I don’t define it only just with dealing only more damage to an enemy.
The point is, due to the Down Scalign System you don’t even recognize dealing alot more damage to the enemies..
You feel like your character stays alwqys the same, regardless if you fight as Lvl 1 character vs. a Lvl 3 Moa, or if you fight as a lvl 80 full exo geared character against a Lvl 3 Moa in the same map.

It is absolutely the SAME and there you say what you wan’t. its a FACT, because all the current improvements a player can get in this game are no character progression mostlx at all, its to 90% everything just all based only on ITEM PROGRESSION >.<

You don’t mow down enemies in low level areas so extreme easily only because you’ve got now an elite skill and some traits.. NO, it are the stats from the much better equipment items and weapons you wield, which don’t get scaled down fully.
Weapons and Armory are no Character Progression, they are all part of Item Progression only.

Character Progression is, when your character learns new Skills, Talents, Traits, Abilities and such things, which have also a GREAT IMPACT on how the character class plays in general, so things which can effectly massively change the gameplay features of a class and by this the way how you can play your character.
That is REAL Character Progression, what gives players a real impression of becoming more powerful, because of your character becoming able to do things in the game, what you weren’t able to do as a beginner and thus with these things you have then your advantage in battles of low level maps, because you have a broader variaty of tactical maneuvers and strategetic usages of your skills , traits ect. what makes your character more powerful compared to a newbie…

Item Progression is just only a small sub part of the whole package, that really comes with real character progression, which this game is so far massively lacking in and what Anet will hopefully improve in future, because if they do not – GW2 will become otherwise quickly a very boring game then…

And I’ll make the assumption here now, that if there won’t be more optimizations into that direction, that GW2 won’t live very long as a game, when there will be permanently only love for the item spiral fetichists and none for those of us, which prefer real character progression always over item progression, because this is it, what makes more fun in general over time, where item progression mostly always generates only grind in first line…

Something like a Sub Class System would be a great addition for Character Progression, because it would add content to the game, which gives players the feeling of becoming better and more powerful – beign able to do things with their characters, which they couldn’t do before..such kind of thigns are REAL charatcer Progression.. not the question if I can 1 hit kill a Quaggan, or not in a stupid low level area with my lvl 80 character, or not …

I can see the point of this, but since the game is already based around level scaling, it would be so much work to actually change it.. But yeah it totally ruins the RPG feel of getting stronger, when you’ve played since release, and you can barely kill those bandits in the starting area any easier than when you first started… Despite wearing a weapon 3 times larger and seemingly unbreakable armor..

pluzoid.2597:

There are soo many posts like this, go back to the farming boss killing mmo you came from, this aint how the majority of players want the game to become.
And there way more ppl playing than whining in the forums. Find another to get ya greedy mits on gold /rant off.

You speak with many words but say little.

kenshinakh.3672:

Shade.6081:

Heard it all before and the argument is basically bs. If there are high level characters keeping the low level characters from completing a particular area move on to another area….they can’t be everywhere all the time. That argument is for whiners. And my gear is always maxed out for what ever level I am currently. I have yet to hear a legitimate and logical argument for keeping level scaling. It is as I said before the disease of gaming and should be banned. And it does make character levels pointless.

Maybe you’re just refusing to like it o.O?

I think it’s more option than facts or something that can be calculated/proven right/wrong.

With dynamic leveling, it does diminish the sense of leveling up, but not too much. You’re still stronger than a person of that zone’s level. However, it does have some pretty nice plus to it. You now can play any place in the map and feel that it isn’t just a roflstomp of newbie NPCs lol. And as some mentioned before, you can level with friends and join up with people much more easily without ruining their experience of the game.

Now, imagine if they let you have an option to not downlevel. Say you’re at an event with 30+ players, and you decided to be a hero. You jump in, boom, boss is down. It’s just … I don’t know what to say but for a game like GW2 where a large chunk of your leveling comes from dynamic events, downleveling is needed. Plus, since you downlevel, the content from the NPCs upscale a bit to your level. If you remove downleveling, then they’d have to remove the content loot scaling too.

I understand your point. I know in some games with no level scaling there are nimrods that come and steal points from the lower levels just to be an a—. But punishing everyone for the deeds of a few is not the answer. Move on to another area…they can’t be everywhere at all times.

pkbot.1345:

one of the BIGGEST reasons for playing an RPG is to progress to higher power levels consistently, and feel powerful.

Simple counter argument:

There’s nothing that says all MMOs have to be like this.

Arena Neat wants to set themselves apart. You have no right to tell them to conform.
Their target audience is players would enjoy level-scaling and are willing to give up the feeling of being powerful.

Being not a part of that audience, you just have to find a different game. It’s that simple.

If you say you don’t progress, you are lying.
I have two elementalists, one is level80 and has ascended/exotic gear.
The other one is around level 50, only masterwork gear.

The level 80 can kill in two hits things the level 50 will need 3-4 hits to kill.
That’s 150-200% faster.

Do you know how many people play in normal mode in Diablo III with a character that has reached Inferno?
VERY FEW.
Why? Because it’s boring, and trivial. There’s no point on killing those weak enemies.

There IS progression. And it’s balanced so lower level content does not become trivial.

That is by design, and even if the implementation is not completely perfect, the design is still very good.
And one of the key features of GW2, and a very basic mechanics, and it will most probable not be removed.

On top of that progression in stats, there’s also player progression.

GW2 is very skill based. So after a certain point, you don’t get better by raising some numbers in the stats panel, you get better by, well, actually getting better.

GW2 has still lots of RPG, but it’s also mainly an action game. So you don’t get to last longer by raising ‘dexterity’ so you’ll dodge more or evade projectiles, or raise constitution so you’ll block more attacks. You directly dodge and block yourself with skills.

Winning becomes less about stats in your character, and ore about your ability to control your character.

And that is the REAL progression.

Here’s a simple suggestion:

Dedicated servers/worlds where there’s no downscaling.

You get to keep you nerfed playing experience and we get our sense of progression.

And now you’ve satisfied the 25% of gw2 players that hate downscaling but otherwise love everything else.

Win win!

Orpheal.8263:

GW2 needs no Down Scalign System. WHat GW2 needs is a correct and very good functionating intelligent dynamic Up Scaling System, that isn’t based on Map Levels, but instead on participating Character Levels.

Means exatly this:

Current System = Map Level is say 50, Lvl 80 Chara gets downscaled to 50, lvl 40 Character has to level up first, to be able to survive there = GRIND

My System = Map Level is 50, lvl 80 character gets not downscaled, Enemies and other Players in near of that Lvl80 player get upscaled to Lvl 80 temporarely.
That way there are no 1Hit Kills, that way there is no Grind for too low leveled characters, that wan’t to help their friends, but can’t because their level is too low for the map

I think there does need to be some sort of scaling related to maps. This way low level players can get high level friends and do Orr runs, but when the friend disconnects they get slaughtered? Not sure how they would implement that.

I do think that the downscaling system needs some love: it’s very inaccurate. In some areas I’ll get downscaled to approx. 3-4 levels above the average mobs and I can solo group events and champions, which kills the fun for me and for the low level people I happen to play with. At other moments (though these are less common) I’ll get downscaled so that the average nearby mob is a level or two stronger than I am. I do not know if these variations are on purpose to please those who do like to oneshot mobs in low level areas, but I feel in its current state the downscaling often does not achieve what it’s supposed to achieve.

Even if it doesn’t work perfectly, level scaling is the best feature to ever hit a level-based MMO. You still get the feeling of progression, but the level scaling squashes it down in order to avoid hyperbolic power growth and rapid trivialization of content. A system that not only allows but actually facilitates those is just bad game design.

Honestly, anyone that doesn’t realize this is just… lacking in analytical skills.

MaRko.3165:

In a word: No. IMHO this is one of the (if not THE) single most attractive features in GW2 – the dynamic scaling of players.

Personally, I wish they would of gone FURTHER with it and nerfed everyones armor and weapons as well. (simply scaling down ones HP is not enough)

The current scaling makes unexplored lower level areas actually interesting. I’m all for it.

Actually by nerfing armor it would feel a bit much IMO, better armor naturally should just be better.

Yep, you say something… When I met with the first gameplay videos, and saw how easy can we kill, I tought this IS the right game for me. Then I realised I need 50 arrow to kill a single target…

I would like to slay hundreds of foes in once, not one by one… It is lame and very outdated kind of thinking.
GW2 should learn from Diablo II too…