Guild Wars 2

Everyone wants to be rich, it’s not a mystery.
In this game one of the ways to make extra money without putting in extra effort is to stack as much magic find you can and sell the stuff you find.
What this results in is people using magic find gear everywhere.
This leaves people running around in kittened gear dragging their team mates down.
Struggling in a explorable?, two of the team are going down every minute because they are only using magic find gear and don’t bother changing it to help the group.
This happens and because of no inspect people don’t know and the person wearing the gear is too selfish to stop.

There is diminishing returns in place but not everyone knows about them and they don’t really make a big difference..
There needs to be a nerf to magic find. It’s such a lazy way of doing things. Make it take the power stat or something. Something that lets people know that there’s no way they can use it in serious fights.

Rant over, scrap magic find.

isnt magic find already a ridiculously low return anyway?

You can do perfectly fine in dungeons wearing magic find.

If you’re getting squashed wearing magic find, you’ll get squashed wearing any other gear, because you’re standing in the bad that’s squashing you either way.

Magic find should be banned from anything but consumables.

Malediktus.9250:

Magic find should be banned from anything but consumables.

Why?

Illushia.3721:

You can do perfectly fine in dungeons wearing magic find.

If you’re getting squashed wearing magic find, you’ll get squashed wearing any other gear, because you’re standing in the bad that’s squashing you either way.

It’s this mentality that is the problem.

Malediktus.9250:

Magic find should be banned from anything but consumables.

I kinda agree. This is coming from someone who went out to do a magic find set.

It is just a pain to deal with. If they must keep it, make it a cooking buff only like it is already.

derry.2789:

Illushia.3721:

You can do perfectly fine in dungeons wearing magic find.

If you’re getting squashed wearing magic find, you’ll get squashed wearing any other gear, because you’re standing in the bad that’s squashing you either way.

It’s this mentality that is the problem.

If there would be player inspecting I would kick anyone from my dungeon groups stacking magic find gear. Just because its selfish even if it wouldnt reduce the effectivity noticeable.

I like the way you are thinking derry. Although I am not at the level for Dungeons yet, I have to agree with your logic. Excellent point!

derry.2789:

Illushia.3721:

You can do perfectly fine in dungeons wearing magic find.

If you’re getting squashed wearing magic find, you’ll get squashed wearing any other gear, because you’re standing in the bad that’s squashing you either way.

It’s this mentality that is the problem.

It’s the player, not the gear.

You should probably realize that.

Illushia.3721:

derry.2789:

Illushia.3721:

You can do perfectly fine in dungeons wearing magic find.

If you’re getting squashed wearing magic find, you’ll get squashed wearing any other gear, because you’re standing in the bad that’s squashing you either way.

It’s this mentality that is the problem.

It’s the player, not the gear.

You should probably realize that.

But the player that equips magic find is selfish and is not out to provide the maximum benefit to the group.

Derry, you should probably put something about this in the suggestions thread. It is certainly worth a lengthy discussion there.

Agreed, people using magic find are leeching non-users for their own benefit.

darkehawke.1269:

isnt magic find already a ridiculously low return anyway?

Yes . I’ll admit I suck at math but even I know 1% of say 5% is an insanely low chance of getting goods

JazzyJay.1367:

Illushia.3721:

derry.2789:

Illushia.3721:

You can do perfectly fine in dungeons wearing magic find.

If you’re getting squashed wearing magic find, you’ll get squashed wearing any other gear, because you’re standing in the bad that’s squashing you either way.

It’s this mentality that is the problem.

It’s the player, not the gear.

You should probably realize that.

But the player that equips magic find is selfish and is not out to provide the maximum benefit to the group.

DrTenma.7249:

Agreed, people using magic find are leeching non-users for their own benefit.

I’m not sure where this mindset is coming from.

There’s still power and precision on the gear. You’re still providing benefit to the group.

You’re missing out on… what, maybe 10% combat effectiveness? If that?

Gear doesn’t matter much in this game. Player skill matters.

Even if you were wearing vit/tough/power gear, if you stand in the bad(like you’re saying they do) then you’re -going- to die. MF gear or not.

Illushia.3721:

JazzyJay.1367:

Illushia.3721:

derry.2789:

Illushia.3721:

You can do perfectly fine in dungeons wearing magic find.

If you’re getting squashed wearing magic find, you’ll get squashed wearing any other gear, because you’re standing in the bad that’s squashing you either way.

It’s this mentality that is the problem.

It’s the player, not the gear.

You should probably realize that.

But the player that equips magic find is selfish and is not out to provide the maximum benefit to the group.

DrTenma.7249:

Agreed, people using magic find are leeching non-users for their own benefit.

I’m not sure where this mindset is coming from.

There’s still power and precision on the gear. You’re still providing benefit to the group.

You’re missing out on… what, maybe 10% combat effectiveness? If that?

Gear doesn’t matter much in this game. Player skill matters.

Even if you were wearing vit/tough/power gear, if you stand in the bad(like you’re saying they do) then you’re -going- to die. MF gear or not.

I would think this should be a consumable like Dead suggested. It just makes more sense. If people want to spend a little extra for a bonus magic find, eat a consumable. It just makes more sense than to have people equiping magic find. If the whole group did it, there is a good amount of lost benefit overall.

Bottom line is… if that difference is non-existent then why have equipment upgrades at all?

I just don’t think that ANet should limit players on what they can gear for, when most of the premise of this game is to let people use whatever gear they want.

The whole reason inspect isn’t in the game is so situations like they want don’t happen. “Oh you don’t have gear I approve of, you don’t get to come”.

ANet doesn’t like people being excluded for the way they gear, since every gearing combination, just about, is beneficial to everyone.

Illushia.3721:

I just don’t think that ANet should limit players on what they can gear for, when most of the premise of this game is to let people use whatever gear they want.

The whole reason inspect isn’t in the game is so situations like they want don’t happen. “Oh you don’t have gear I approve of, you don’t get to come”.

ANet doesn’t like people being excluded for the way they gear, since every gearing combination, just about, is beneficial to everyone.

That is a good point about the inspect. That is fine by me. I just think they could remove that magic find upgrade and provide it another way so people will optimize their gear to be of more benefit. Maybe not the best benefit, but more beneficial than magic find.

That is up to the player.

I have an invisible 15-slot bag with my main gear to use it when the occasion arises. I appreciate the extra return with MF in a (so far) restrictive game world with gold sinks nearly outweighing rewards at level 80.

They just need to add an inspect feature so you can kick a player if he refuses to change to a more appropriate gear.

Amon.5042:

That is up to the player.

I have an invisible 15-slot bag with my main gear to use it when the occasion arises. I appreciate the extra return with MF in a (so far) restrictive game world with gold sinks nearly outweighing rewards at level 80.

They just need to add an inspect feature so you can kick a player if he refuses to change to a more appropriate gear.

Illushia made a good point about the inspect feature. It is better not to have it. It prevents that kicking of a player over gear. Morally it is just wrong to boot someone because you don’t like what they are wearing.

Amon.5042:

That is up to the player.

I have an invisible 15-slot bag with my main gear to use it when the occasion arises. I appreciate the extra return with MF in a (so far) restrictive game world with gold sinks nearly outweighing rewards at level 80.

They just need to add an inspect feature so you can kick a player if he refuses to change to a more appropriate gear.

That is exactly the reason that ANet did not, and likely will not, include an option to inspect people.

Illushia.3721:

Malediktus.9250:

Magic find should be banned from anything but consumables.

Why?

Because in groups it’s a fundamentally selfish stat. You increase your own drops at the expense of your own stats, but your lower stats hurt the entire team’s success, not just your own. The optimal way to run a dungeon is to have four party members who are using strong gear, with you leeching off them in your magic find gear.

I don’t think they should bring in a inspec feature.
Magic find helps nobody except the player.
That person that keeps saying “people standing in the bad”, it’s not standing in stuff that kills people in explorables.

JazzyJay.1367:

Illushia.3721:

JazzyJay.1367:

Illushia.3721:

derry.2789:

Illushia.3721:

You can do perfectly fine in dungeons wearing magic find.

If you’re getting squashed wearing magic find, you’ll get squashed wearing any other gear, because you’re standing in the bad that’s squashing you either way.

It’s this mentality that is the problem.

It’s the player, not the gear.

You should probably realize that.

But the player that equips magic find is selfish and is not out to provide the maximum benefit to the group.

DrTenma.7249:

Agreed, people using magic find are leeching non-users for their own benefit.

I’m not sure where this mindset is coming from.

There’s still power and precision on the gear. You’re still providing benefit to the group.

You’re missing out on… what, maybe 10% combat effectiveness? If that?

Gear doesn’t matter much in this game. Player skill matters.

Even if you were wearing vit/tough/power gear, if you stand in the bad(like you’re saying they do) then you’re -going- to die. MF gear or not.

I would think this should be a consumable like Dead suggested. It just makes more sense. If people want to spend a little extra for a bonus magic find, eat a consumable. It just makes more sense than to have people equiping magic find. If the whole group did it, there is a good amount of lost benefit overall.

Bottom line is… if that difference is non-existent then why have equipment upgrades at all?

ZOMGZOZRZ Y U MF CONSUABLE ISNTEAD OF BESTEST CONSUMBLE?!1?1!?1?1/!?111

Yes, that will happen. If you don’t want people to “ruin” your dungeon experiences don’t go with randoms. Simple as that.

it will mostly help you accrue more junk and whites, it’s in essence probably intended as a way of farming more scraps for jute etc.

the returns it will give you on low drop rate gear means that if you stack it even to extremes, you deserve to be told to leave a dungeon group, they’re hell enough and horribly tuned as is, without you lacking a ton of a stat for making your chance at a rare drop .5% of a chance better. Don’t be stupid, use your brain

This game may seem like it’s being wrecked by bad decisions, but I don’t think it was designed by idiots for no reason. And mf is no exception.

maybe mf gear needs some visual precursor on armor so we can tell who’s stacked it and tell them to get real?

Oh and that guy who claimed to not stand in the fire, wrong game forum dude, lay off the pot it’s ruining your brain if you’re making the mistake that this is the wow forums xD

Freakiie.8940:

JazzyJay.1367:

Illushia.3721:

JazzyJay.1367:

Illushia.3721:

derry.2789:

Illushia.3721:

You can do perfectly fine in dungeons wearing magic find.

If you’re getting squashed wearing magic find, you’ll get squashed wearing any other gear, because you’re standing in the bad that’s squashing you either way.

It’s this mentality that is the problem.

It’s the player, not the gear.

You should probably realize that.

But the player that equips magic find is selfish and is not out to provide the maximum benefit to the group.

DrTenma.7249:

Agreed, people using magic find are leeching non-users for their own benefit.

I’m not sure where this mindset is coming from.

There’s still power and precision on the gear. You’re still providing benefit to the group.

You’re missing out on… what, maybe 10% combat effectiveness? If that?

Gear doesn’t matter much in this game. Player skill matters.

Even if you were wearing vit/tough/power gear, if you stand in the bad(like you’re saying they do) then you’re -going- to die. MF gear or not.

I would think this should be a consumable like Dead suggested. It just makes more sense. If people want to spend a little extra for a bonus magic find, eat a consumable. It just makes more sense than to have people equiping magic find. If the whole group did it, there is a good amount of lost benefit overall.

Bottom line is… if that difference is non-existent then why have equipment upgrades at all?

ZOMGZOZRZ Y U MF CONSUABLE ISNTEAD OF BESTEST CONSUMBLE?!1?1!?1?1/!?111

Yes, that will happen. If you don’t want people to “ruin” your dungeon experiences don’t go with randoms. Simple as that.

Lol you win.

Strill.2591:

Illushia.3721:

Malediktus.9250:

Magic find should be banned from anything but consumables.

Why?

Because in groups it’s a fundamentally selfish stat. You increase your own drops at the expense of your own stats, but your lower stats hurt the entire team’s success, not just your own. The optimal way to run a dungeon is to have four party members who are using strong gear, with you leeching off them in your magic find gear.

Magic find gear has comparable stats to other DPS gear. The power and precision are equal. The only difference is that you don’t have condition damage, or crit damage.

It’s a minuscule difference.

Illushia.3721:

Strill.2591:

Illushia.3721:

Malediktus.9250:

Magic find should be banned from anything but consumables.

Why?

Because in groups it’s a fundamentally selfish stat. You increase your own drops at the expense of your own stats, but your lower stats hurt the entire team’s success, not just your own. The optimal way to run a dungeon is to have four party members who are using strong gear, with you leeching off them in your magic find gear.

Magic find gear has comparable stats to other DPS gear. The power and precision are equal. The only difference is that you don’t have condition damage, or crit damage.

It’s a minuscule difference.

No the power and precision are not equal. Magic Find is the primary stat on magic find gear, so one of the other stats is reduced. Furthermore, crit damage is a huge contribution to overall dps.

I meant equal to each other on the gear. I wasn’t comparing it to other gear.

The overall point, though, is that ANet does not approve of telling players how they can and cannot gear.

Almost every stat is useful to almost every spec(The only one I can think of would be + condition damage to a weapon/trait line with no conditions at all. Though I can’t think of one without any).

They’ve pointed out many times that they’re not going to force players to gear one way or another, and they precluded Inspect from the game so that other players can’t either.

Illushia.3721:

That is exactly the reason that ANet did not, and likely will not, include an option to inspect people.

Is GW2 the most politically correct MMO ever? That’s a pretty boring premise. Some choices should simply be up to players without having a kindness and politeness rulebook shoved down our throats.

Adding an inspect feature to view armor and weapons is just common sense. If I’m organizing a PUG, I NEED to have a basis to determine likelihood of success. If I’m a noob, I’d LIKE to know what others are using so that I can get some reference on how to play the game. If I’m told by another player that I’m using the wrong gear for reason A and B, I’d appreciate that because that’s something I learned.

Don’t allow traits to be seen; don’t allow skills to be seen unless the player wishes to. But removing the inspect feature all together because it may hurt players feelings? That’s hilarious.

‘Inspect’ should be something willingly done. “Hey what gear are you using?” And then you can link them. If you go “If I don’t like your gear you can’t come” or something to that effect, people should be able to choose to go “No you can’t look at my gear”.

It’s ANet’s philosophy. And like it or not, you are playing their game.

that we’ve bought.

If no one bought their game, their game doesn’t exist.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not disagreeing with the whole, let’s not discriminate against those with “the wrong build” but lets face it, until they stop overtuning the explorable modes, and we stop underthinking the stats such as toughness healing power and magic find and realising they’re NOT good stats. then their initial premise of bring who and what you want profession and whatnot wise, is a load of rubbish.

magic find benefits only you, and at a detriment to your overall effectiveness, in highly tuned levels of play (which are a mess) that’s you being selfish if you bring it to that content, if you can be selfish like that, you CANNOT say that the person who is asking to view your gear to confirm you’re not wearing the stat because it is viewed as a liability to ALL 4 other party members is wrong. Nor can you simply blame them should they refuse to play with you.

I say no to BOTH, I don’t want players turned away for reasons other than pragmatic ones and legitimate ones like you’re trying to do a endgame instances in whites. And I also don’t want players ruining their own stats for a miniscule chance at a better drop and instead causing more problems for their team

I have never had a good experience with a magic find mechanic. It is just a god awful thing to include in a game. I already hate juggling multiple gear sets, but then dumping magic find crap on top of that just pisses me off.

That sounds more like a problem with the dungeons than the gear.

Or just the player that the gear is being blamed on.

Like I said before, you can do an explorable mode dungeon where everyone in the group is wearing green gear that goes contrary to what your spec/weapon wants as far as stats are concerned, and then still finish the dungeon as long as you play smart.

Gear really is a small factor when dungeon success/fail is looked at.

@Illushia

Thank you for the information you just gave me. I’m taking your word for it. This is another game decision I did not know about. I thought that this was just something to be implemented in the future.

I’m actually not playing their game much at the moment. But I’m hopeful that they can balance player choice with the overprotective stance they’re taking atm. I believe they’re overthinking some of the gameplay features. Players know how to take care of themselves; we don’t need the developer to hold our hands at all times.

Cheers.

I facepalmed when I first saw this stat on the live build of the game. Why would you even put this in a game? It’s clear that everyone’s gonna take it instead of the stats that they should be taking. I’m very disappointed, Anet.

TSLlol.4879:

I facepalmed when I first saw this stat on the live build of the game. Why would you even put this in a game? It’s clear that everyone’s gonna take it instead of the stats that they should be taking. I’m very disappointed, Anet.

Except there’s no real stats you ‘should’ be taking. All stats work for all specs, 95% of the time.

If the loot didn’t suckkitten I wouldn’t be so compelled to wear magic find gear. Even WITH as much MF as possible (about 150% without a boost) the chance of getting rares is so abysmally low. Still haven’t even seen an exotic.

I’m currently stacking magic find because the loot is trash and hopefully MF will help me get the money I need to get an actual good set of exotic gear. And I’m sure I’m not the only one. That’s what happens when, instead of making max armor available for cheap like GW1, you make max armor super expensive – everyone stacks cheap, good luck gear so they can try and save up for real gear. Why would I blow all my money on non-max gear just to keep getting crud drops and making it take even longer to get actual good gear?

Let the non-MF-gear elitism begin… Hilarious how little people realize that pure knowledge and skill are what makes most PvE content easy, not MF/non-MF gear.

Illushia.3721:

TSLlol.4879:

I facepalmed when I first saw this stat on the live build of the game. Why would you even put this in a game? It’s clear that everyone’s gonna take it instead of the stats that they should be taking. I’m very disappointed, Anet.

Except there’s no real stats you ‘should’ be taking. All stats work for all specs, 95% of the time.

MF gear / upgrades is considerably weaker in attack and defense bonuses, making the player less effective. That can be the difference between a successful dungeon run, or with other difficult tasks that require a cohesive group.

Hellkaiser.6025:

that we’ve bought.

If no one bought their game, their game doesn’t exist.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not disagreeing with the whole, let’s not discriminate against those with “the wrong build” but lets face it, until they stop overtuning the explorable modes, and we stop underthinking the stats such as toughness healing power and magic find and realising they’re NOT good stats. then their initial premise of bring who and what you want profession and whatnot wise, is a load of rubbish.

magic find benefits only you, and at a detriment to your overall effectiveness, in highly tuned levels of play (which are a mess) that’s you being selfish if you bring it to that content, if you can be selfish like that, you CANNOT say that the person who is asking to view your gear to confirm you’re not wearing the stat because it is viewed as a liability to ALL 4 other party members is wrong. Nor can you simply blame them should they refuse to play with you.

I say no to BOTH, I don’t want players turned away for reasons other than pragmatic ones and legitimate ones like you’re trying to do a endgame instances in whites. And I also don’t want players ruining their own stats for a miniscule chance at a better drop and instead causing more problems for their team

If it concerns you so much a solution has already been presented and it’s the only answer you are going to get – don’t party with randoms. Random solo players by and large are only there for one persons enjoyment. And it’s not yours.

Do you guys have any kind of idea the backlash that would occur if Anet suddenly told people they can’t use gear they invested time and money to acquire in a certain way?

If you think all the threads about dungeons in the last 2 days were annoying you have no idea the kitten storm that would cause.

Really people, if you have a set of gear set up with Magic find, as a service to all…only use it outside of dungeons. Switch for dungeons cause you’ll probably save on your repair bills. Yes, skill is what wins the dungeons probably more than gear, but why nerf your effectiveness at the cost of everyone else’s enjoyment?

Illushia.3721:

You can do perfectly fine in dungeons wearing magic find.

If you’re getting squashed wearing magic find, you’ll get squashed wearing any other gear, because you’re standing in the bad that’s squashing you either way.

I disagree. When I switch from my Power/Precision/MF gear to my Power/Vitality/Toughness gear it makes a significant difference.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

Illushia.3721:

You can do perfectly fine in dungeons wearing magic find.

If you’re getting squashed wearing magic find, you’ll get squashed wearing any other gear, because you’re standing in the bad that’s squashing you either way.

I disagree. When I switch from my Power/Precision/MF gear to my Power/Vitality/Toughness gear it makes a significant difference.

Yeah because magic find gear has no defensive stats on it what so ever. That’s the difference you are feeling.

It would be the same if the person was wearing berserker gear, their crits just wouldn’t hit as hard.

Berserker gear – power / precision / crit damage
Magic find gear – power / precision / magic find

There may be a variation out there that has a combination of power/toughness/vitality but I haven’t seen it if it exists.

It makes people glass cannons, with less of the cannon and mostly just glass. They generally don’t work.

I never liked the magic find stat on any game. Even in diablo2, which I loved. It is a stat that should never exist.

You play wearing magic find to get better items -> you would use those better items to play, but -> you play wearing magic find to get better items

I’d have to agree here. The benefits of magic find should be in consumables only. Perhaps have different levels of MF% in various food items.

Agreed with all the people saying MF% should be removed. Kal’s post in particular summed it up perfectly. It’s a mental trap that people feel bad using and feel bad not using if it’s around. Just convert all existing gear to +critdamage stuff, or hey, how about that rabid gear that should be craftable but isn’t? Whatever, I’ll buy new gear (and not bad glass cannon gear either) and feel better about it as long as I know I’m not sacrificing income, given how much grind is needed for stuff like legendaries.

I don’t understand why someone would wear MF in a dungeon at all if they want loot.

If you want to make money, you wear your MF at dynamic events that spawn waves of mobs. Tons of loot. Fighting 3 vet mobs for 1-2 minutes in a dungeon gives the same loot as 3 trash wave mobs from an event… and there will be more like 20 of them in that wave.

If you wear your good gear in dungeons, it goes faster and your token/hour rate goes up (the only reason to be in a dungeon in the first place)

It is selfish to judge others by their equipment and not their utility.

If you were to play another MMO, would you enjoy having the cleric kicked for low dps because utility was judged by a dps meter? What if you were regularly kicked because you used rares and couldnt afford exotics, so now you cant run the dungeons to GET exotics?

The point here is, you may have a point, players should put the group above their own pockets. However, its not your place to decide if they should be kicked for it or not. Youre being selfish by trying to control what equipment they use and what level they are at. If theyre skilled enough to run the instace, let them!

Thats my view, anyway.