Mail System: Charge on Delivery

Mail System: Charge on Delivery

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Posted by: Dand.8231

Dand.8231

Hello ANet. I have a simple suggestion here, an optional Charge on Delivery system, when sending mail to a player.

The mechanics are simple:

  • When turned on, a player can specify a Delivery Charge, for the recipient to accept the Email.
  • The recipient can preview the message, and any attached items, but cannot retrieve the items till the Delivery Charge is paid.
  • Accepting the Delivery Charge requires the recipient to manually enter in the Gold/Silver/Copper value, to make it difficult for an accidental acceptance to occur.
  • Once paid, the items can be taken by the recipient, and the sender is awarded the Delivery Charge, minus a 15% fee (same as black lion trading post)
  • If unpaid, after 7 days, the mail and it’s contents, will be automatically returned to the sender.

My goal for such a suggestion should be fairly obvious. What does everyone think?

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Posted by: mercury ranique.2170

mercury ranique.2170

No!
If you want to trade with people you cant trust you should use the TP. The TP is designed for secure and safe transactions. Transactions through email are only used amongst friends (based on mutual trust) or by scammers. The answer is to use the TP.

Arise, ye farmers of all nations
Arise, opressed of Tyria!

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Posted by: Sickle.6502

Sickle.6502

This seems a bit tedious to me, sorry, but there should be a trade system and the trade post used as a way to trade to people you don’t know across servers.
(like an auction house, without the bidding)

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Posted by: Mel.8769

Mel.8769

This is flawed on so many levels. Also, this is what the TP is for.

Common sense is a flower that doesn’t grow in everyone’s garden. -Unknown

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Posted by: Flanar.5981

Flanar.5981

This seems a bit tedious to me, sorry, but there should be a trade system and the trade post used as a way to trade to people you don’t know across servers.
(like an auction house, without the bidding)

I agree that it sounds too much work.

I also agree that there should be a personal trade system. I have no idea why a MMORPG does not have that. It has always made me wonder.

(edited by Flanar.5981)

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Posted by: Katz.5143

Katz.5143

I would like a personal trade system. I know they don’t have it because of how it was abused by gold sellers, etc in gw1.

The problem I see with your suggestion is that we can only have a certain number of mail before we reach our limit and people could abuse this by sending trash items to folks for exorbitant prices. This could be overcome by having the return button to return the mail but it would be annoying to the person having to return it.

I would prefer that they add a feature to the trading post whereby people can specify the purchaser’s name.

It’s a kitten conspiracy. Kittens gonna be kittens. All is vain!

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Posted by: coglin.1867

coglin.1867

Personal trade systems of any kind are the single most exploited aspect of every MMO.
These systems are how people dupe to make more of the same item. I am glad they had the foresight not to put any in the game.

A video on what weak PvPer’s and WvWer’s want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

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Posted by: Flanar.5981

Flanar.5981

Personal trade systems of any kind are the single most exploited aspect of every MMO.
These systems are how people dupe to make more of the same item. I am glad they had the foresight not to put any in the game.

I dont wish to sound like a jerk here, but as a programmer, I think that if a piece of code can be exploited, its the fault of the programmer not the user.

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Posted by: Dand.8231

Dand.8231

No!
If you want to trade with people you cant trust you should use the TP. The TP is designed for secure and safe transactions. Transactions through email are only used amongst friends (based on mutual trust) or by scammers. The answer is to use the TP.

The answer is NOT the TP. The Black Lion Trade Post, while awesome for what it does, COMPLETELY LACKS the feature im asking for.

I’m asking for a secure way to trade directly with other players.

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Posted by: Frotee.2634

Frotee.2634

No!
If you want to trade with people you cant trust you should use the TP. The TP is designed for secure and safe transactions. Transactions through email are only used amongst friends (based on mutual trust) or by scammers. The answer is to use the TP.

The answer is NOT the TP. The Black Lion Trade Post, while awesome for what it does, COMPLETELY LACKS the feature im asking for.

I’m asking for a secure way to trade directly with other players.

Explain to me why exactly you need to trade directly with other players you are not familiar enough to trust them not to cheat you?

Polka will never die

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Posted by: mercury ranique.2170

mercury ranique.2170

No!
If you want to trade with people you cant trust you should use the TP. The TP is designed for secure and safe transactions. Transactions through email are only used amongst friends (based on mutual trust) or by scammers. The answer is to use the TP.

The answer is NOT the TP. The Black Lion Trade Post, while awesome for what it does, COMPLETELY LACKS the feature im asking for.

I’m asking for a secure way to trade directly with other players.

The reason people want to trade this way is either they got scammed or cause they wanna scam. Give me a GOOD reason to trade this way. I have given arguments that history has proven it is misused a lot by scammers and goldsellers. You can see that in any old game. So give me a valid reason and I might want to agree. I dont see the purpose at all and don’t want them to waste time on an unneeded feature.

Arise, ye farmers of all nations
Arise, opressed of Tyria!

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Posted by: Oniyui.8279

Oniyui.8279

No!
If you want to trade with people you cant trust you should use the TP. The TP is designed for secure and safe transactions. Transactions through email are only used amongst friends (based on mutual trust) or by scammers. The answer is to use the TP.

The answer is NOT the TP. The Black Lion Trade Post, while awesome for what it does, COMPLETELY LACKS the feature im asking for.

I’m asking for a secure way to trade directly with other players.

The reason people want to trade this way is either they got scammed or cause they wanna scam. Give me a GOOD reason to trade this way. I have given arguments that history has proven it is misused a lot by scammers and goldsellers. You can see that in any old game. So give me a valid reason and I might want to agree. I dont see the purpose at all and don’t want them to waste time on an unneeded feature.

This actually seems more like scam protection… since neither party has to commit to sending their side of the trade first. It’s used in real life, called Cash on delivery/Collect on delivery.

The only feature I’m finding odd is that you’re suggesting it get taxed… I would have thought going through the mail personally to the person you’re trading with would be to avoid that loss…

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Posted by: Olba.5376

Olba.5376

No!
If you want to trade with people you cant trust you should use the TP. The TP is designed for secure and safe transactions. Transactions through email are only used amongst friends (based on mutual trust) or by scammers. The answer is to use the TP.

The answer is NOT the TP. The Black Lion Trade Post, while awesome for what it does, COMPLETELY LACKS the feature im asking for.

I’m asking for a secure way to trade directly with other players.

The reason people want to trade this way is either they got scammed or cause they wanna scam. Give me a GOOD reason to trade this way. I have given arguments that history has proven it is misused a lot by scammers and goldsellers. You can see that in any old game. So give me a valid reason and I might want to agree. I dont see the purpose at all and don’t want them to waste time on an unneeded feature.

This actually seems more like scam protection… since neither party has to commit to sending their side of the trade first. It’s used in real life, called Cash on delivery/Collect on delivery.

The only feature I’m finding odd is that you’re suggesting it get taxed… I would have thought going through the mail personally to the person you’re trading with would be to avoid that loss…

Look carefully at what he’s suggesting.

The 15% tax is taken out of the money the buyer pays. Thus, it completely circumvents the listing fee. And I think that’s what the OP is aiming at: The ability to sell expensive items without requiring to have the money for the listing fee first.

I doubt I need to elaborate why it have very, very bad results.

Any other reason for out-of-TP trading can be made invalid with simple counterarguments.

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Posted by: DavyMcB.1603

DavyMcB.1603

There is no personal trading because ANET wants every single item to reflect the markets. If you make it personal, you will never know what the equilibrium of the price should be. There’s no comparison. The market will not be big enough to sufficiently assign price to each item. Law of demand and supply will be crippled —> crippled game economy.

It’s not just about leakage aka listing fees.

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Posted by: coglin.1867

coglin.1867

Personal trade systems of any kind are the single most exploited aspect of every MMO.
These systems are how people dupe to make more of the same item. I am glad they had the foresight not to put any in the game.

I dont wish to sound like a jerk here, but as a programmer, I think that if a piece of code can be exploited, its the fault of the programmer not the user.

How long have you been programming in MMOs? I am curious as to why every MMO that has had personal trading has had issues with players duping items? I am not a programmer so I do not know how it works, or how a piece of code would work in relation to the server side and client side differences and why this problems occurs in every single MMO that has ever had a personal trading system

Does the MMO your a programmer for have a personal trading system or no? If so, how did you alleviate this problem so where so many others failed?

A video on what weak PvPer’s and WvWer’s want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

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Posted by: Redenaz.8631

Redenaz.8631

I’m just not convinced this would be useful enough to be worth the implementation.

Advantages I Can See Over Trading Post
1) You can give someone a price cut while ensuring it gets to that particular customer.
2) You can bundle items together in one sell, something impossible on the TP.
3) Transaction fee is entirely shifted to the buyer.

1. Of course, I’m not sure why you care so much about it getting to a particular customer if they’re not someone you can trust enough to just make the exchange via unsecure mail. Seems odd to take a loss on your end for someone you don’t trust.

2. Is anyone really going to use this feature for legitimate, bundle-based financial adventures? I mean, we’re buying/selling things that generally have a very clear value, not, say, 1930s Coca-Cola memorabilia.

3. I’m not very sympathetic to people who can’t afford the listing fee, as it suggests to me that either they’re terrible with money and need to learn to keep some around, or that they’re a starting player who has chanced into a ridiculously rare drop, in which case they can wait a bit to cash in on their raw luck.

~The Storyteller – Elementalist – Jade Quarry~

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Posted by: Shades.4572

Shades.4572

While I don’t like the mailing system idea that the op came up with I would however want some type of private trading system.
Why? Well there are my reasons/situations where I would use it:

  1. Playing with a group of pugs I just pinged an exotic drop and someone says they will buy it off of me for 1g
  2. I talk to people how I have 2-3 different types of food on me for different situations. I ping my 50 bars and 50 pies. Someone says they would like some and pay for it. I would gladly sell them some for around the current highest bid offer so that they could have some right away.
  3. While running with pugs in a dungeon/elsewhere someone says they forgot/just salvaged/don’t have a staff for their ele and they would like one for the next part. I currently have a lvl 80 rare one on me and say I will give it to them for 25s.
  4. Some friends of mine have been using the mf to try and get precursors. So I have been trading them my rare shortbows/xxx for any rare of theirs. I would be willing to do the same for other guildies idk so well or other people in general.
  5. When I hit 300%mf from luck I already plan on sending my blues and greens to a couple friends who will salvage them for luck and send me back the mats. I would be willing to do the same for guildies idk if there was a trade system. Granted it would be the honor system for the first time i send items and then they will send me back the other mats and I give them more blues (sure they could still jip me by not send all the mats but thats w/e).
  6. Recently I’ve been buying candy corn for 50c and cobs for 5g off the trading post and from some guildies. The price of candy corn since it is a “holiday” item fluctuates on the tp so I can’t always get it for the price of 50c each.
  7. A guildie/person doesn’t have their crafting leveled all the way, I do. They say that they have all the mats for a certain item but need someone to make it for them. I would make the item with my mats and trade the item for their mats (no tip needed)
  8. A guildie want to level a crafting profession and says they would buy items from people. I would sell mats to them in bulk for around the high bid price so that they can get it sooner.
  9. A guildie gave up/doesn’t play WvW. They still have some blueprints, got some in the achv chests, or just bought them for the daily badges spender. They want to sell for xxx so that they will at least get used by our guild/server.
  10. I just got a rare breather drop at teq and don’t need it. Someone else wants it I sell it to them for around the high bid price
  11. My last reason would just to be on the safe side to give someone an item. A couple time my boyfriend and others tried to mail me items and instead of me getting the item they sent it to a “Shade.xxxx” in our guild instead of “Shades” me since the mail system autofilled it to them first. So I would prefer using the trading system over mail just to be on the safe side that the right person is getting the items.

Those are just the examples I can think of on the top of my head for why I would use a private system. I wouldn’t even being making a profit doing it that way. Tbh I would be taking a hypothetical loss of profit, since I would be willing to sell items at around the high bid price. Sure there is the listing fee, but normally I list things at the lowest seller so I would be taking a lose of profit even without having to pay a listing fee. More or less the reason I would use the system is to be a nice person and help people/my guildies out with stuff not for profit. Basically it is just different selling things on the bltp to a faceless nobody then someone you are currently playing with/semi know through your guild.

The only example that is to my personal benefit would be the candy corn one since I don’t want to buy candy corn for over 50c. Plus there is the benefit of getting money right away from trades without a listing fee I guess, but that’s not exactly more profit like I said before.

All the examples I have said happened before with both pugs and with people I know, either the way I wrote or or vise-versa. It just sucks when your deal/trade is on the honor system. I like to believe that everyone will honor trades, but that’s just not true. I have been stood up on deals and have been out 1g/items, and I have also have someone send me a tip in the mail after I sent the item saying they are grateful I actually did send it after they paid for it. Having the cushion or safety net of a private trade system would be so nice for ppl who want to just help others out, since not everyone honors the deal.

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Posted by: Shades.4572

Shades.4572

Now for the negatives. While I would love to have a personal trading system in the game, I know it wouldn’t be all sunshine and daisies…

  1. Some people will try to use it to make more profit by avoiding the listing fees
    • Possible solution is if money is involved in the transfer/trade the 15% will be deducted a way during the process regardless of who puts the money up, so people have to calculate that into the trade.
    • Or just have auto deducted 15% from the person putting up items in. From what I gather people might prefer this way more, since the buyer doesn’t pay the list fee and it is more bltp.
    • Only downside is item for item trades have no money involved
  2. There will most likely be someone who spams in LA “wtt xxx for xxx”
    • Possible solution create a new chat command type such as /trade so that ppl can filter if they want to read the trade offers or not.
    • Also add a report option for spamming wtt/wtb/wts in other chats such as /m or /s.
      That said person if found guilty will get a temp ban from chats for x days.
  3. The economy is not 99.99% accurate on the bltp anymore, since people can trade around the economy through the system (I can’t think of a possible feasible solution).

Overall if they add a trading system and my possible solutions for the negatives I think it would be a good add to the game. I know I would use it to trade with people if I had a safe way to trade. For those who just want profit can stick with the bltp.

(edited by Shades.4572)

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Posted by: Dand.8231

Dand.8231

The Pro’s of such a direct trade system (which in the case of my suggestion takes on a CoD format) has many of the advantages already stated in this thread, and very few, if any, real disadvantages that I can come up with.

And the 15% Tax I suggested is just to make it so people dont trade for the sole purpose of circumventing the TP. Please dont over-analyze where the fee lands (buyer vs seller); it’s a moot point, and can be easily adjusted.

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Posted by: Synesence.7546

Synesence.7546

I do agree that this system should be implemented, something like this:

  • The seller would put a price on the item that’s being sold, and once established, the item would be temporarily stored by a third-party (An NPC from the BLTP). When the buyer pays the exact amount asked by the seller(Monitored by said third-party), the money is transferred temporarily to the third-party. Both buyer and seller would be given a chance to finalize the trade, and should both parties agree, the trade shall occur immediately. If both parties do not agree, the trade shall be canceled and both parties shall receive their items back.

Listing fee shall follow accordingly as on the BLTP, so it wouldn’t be exploited or abused.

(edited by Synesence.7546)

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Posted by: FenrirSlakt.3692

FenrirSlakt.3692

This idea REEKS of WoW.

Also, trading is already fulfilled by the TP.

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Posted by: Dand.8231

Dand.8231

This idea REEKS of WoW.

Also, trading is already fulfilled by the TP.

Many MMOs, including WoW, borrowed their mail concepts from the US postal system, which was founded in the late 1700’s
The Charge on Delivery concept predates the interwebz by several hundred years.

And this form of trade is obviously NOT fulfilled by the TP. The TP is great at what it does, and often this method of trade is a cornerstone in many economys (both real and digital) but it’s nothing like a direct trade system.

Thus, both of your statements, are incorrect.

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Posted by: Sickle.6502

Sickle.6502

I’d like a way for the trade post to act like a post office, wherein you can send the player who bought it, and also have a reserved area for private sales.

Secondly, email system to show a SENT and INBOX tab – Last time I got hacked, I had all my stuff sent to an account which I couldn’t even know which it was – Then we just need the emails we send to not be able to be deleted for 7 days.

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Posted by: LoreChief.8391

LoreChief.8391

No!
If you want to trade with people you cant trust you should use the TP. The TP is designed for secure and safe transactions. Transactions through email are only used amongst friends (based on mutual trust) or by scammers. The answer is to use the TP.

The answer is NOT the TP. The Black Lion Trade Post, while awesome for what it does, COMPLETELY LACKS the feature im asking for.

I’m asking for a secure way to trade directly with other players.

This whole thread must be trolling..

You DO NOT NEED the ability to directly trade with other players. THERE IS NO REASON FOR IT. If you want to trade an item for a price, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT TP IS FOR.

If you want to just trade an item to a player at no cost THAT IS WHAT MAIL IS FOR.

Let me restate this again in case you missed it.

WE
DO
NOT
NEED
PERSONAL
TRADES
AT
ALL
PERIOD

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Posted by: Shades.4572

Shades.4572

No!
If you want to trade with people you cant trust you should use the TP. The TP is designed for secure and safe transactions. Transactions through email are only used amongst friends (based on mutual trust) or by scammers. The answer is to use the TP.

The answer is NOT the TP. The Black Lion Trade Post, while awesome for what it does, COMPLETELY LACKS the feature im asking for.

I’m asking for a secure way to trade directly with other players.

This whole thread must be trolling..

You DO NOT NEED the ability to directly trade with other players. THERE IS NO REASON FOR IT. If you want to trade an item for a price, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT TP IS FOR.

If you want to just trade an item to a player at no cost THAT IS WHAT MAIL IS FOR.

Let me restate this again in case you missed it.

WE
DO
NOT
NEED
PERSONAL
TRADES
AT
ALL
PERIOD

Seriously I’m not trolling. I would like a personal trade system. I listed 11, on the top of my head, reasons above why I would use a personal trade system. NOT for profit like I use the bltp, but for other reasons. If I actually thought about it more I probably could come up with more situations where I would use it, such as #12 I once traded crafting mats in a 1:1 tier ratio such as scales for blood. Through the mail system it was slightly harder to keep track of since we ended up trading a ton of mats. A personal trading system would have helped a lot in that situation, plus it would allow trading with people I am less familiar with.

Sure like I mentioned some people would try to work around the bltp to try and make a profit, but for my purposes I wouldn’t be trying to get a profit out of it. It is just for secure personal trades. Not everyone is going to want to place bids and wait for it to come or use the buy now and run to a tp. The bltp does NOT fullfill every trading possibility and the mail system sucks even with trading with people you trust, the back and forth of it is just ridiculous.

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Posted by: Olba.5376

Olba.5376

  1. Playing with a group of pugs I just pinged an exotic drop and someone says they will buy it off of me for 1g
  2. I talk to people how I have 2-3 different types of food on me for different situations. I ping my 50 bars and 50 pies. Someone says they would like some and pay for it. I would gladly sell them some for around the current highest bid offer so that they could have some right away.
  3. While running with pugs in a dungeon/elsewhere someone says they forgot/just salvaged/don’t have a staff for their ele and they would like one for the next part. I currently have a lvl 80 rare one on me and say I will give it to them for 25s.
  4. When I hit 300%mf from luck I already plan on sending my blues and greens to a couple friends who will salvage them for luck and send me back the mats. I would be willing to do the same for guildies idk if there was a trade system. Granted it would be the honor system for the first time i send items and then they will send me back the other mats and I give them more blues (sure they could still jip me by not send all the mats but thats w/e).
  5. Recently I’ve been buying candy corn for 50c and cobs for 5g off the trading post and from some guildies. The price of candy corn since it is a “holiday” item fluctuates on the tp so I can’t always get it for the price of 50c each.
  6. A guildie/person doesn’t have their crafting leveled all the way, I do. They say that they have all the mats for a certain item but need someone to make it for them. I would make the item with my mats and trade the item for their mats (no tip needed)
  7. A guildie want to level a crafting profession and says they would buy items from people. I would sell mats to them in bulk for around the high bid price so that they can get it sooner.
  8. A guildie gave up/doesn’t play WvW. They still have some blueprints, got some in the achv chests, or just bought them for the daily badges spender. They want to sell for xxx so that they will at least get used by our guild/server.
  9. I just got a rare breather drop at teq and don’t need it. Someone else wants it I sell it to them for around the high bid price
  10. My last reason would just to be on the safe side to give someone an item. A couple time my boyfriend and others tried to mail me items and instead of me getting the item they sent it to a “Shade.xxxx” in our guild instead of “Shades” me since the mail system autofilled it to them first. So I would prefer using the trading system over mail just to be on the safe side that the right person is getting the items.
  1. So you’re taking a voluntary monetary loss. You could just sell the item on the TP and mail the difference to the guy who wanted to buy it. Same end result.
  2. This is exactly the same situation as above.
  3. Um… what? Does something like that really happen?
  4. How would that be any different from the current mail system? After all, you can’t have the mail system automatically sending out the salvaged materials. So it would be greens/blues for gold, then materials for gold. On both transactions, someone has to take the blind trust role.
  5. Circumventing the market. Not a valid reason.
  6. Again, that would be based on an honor system, which means it’s no different from the current one. Not to mention that the mail system has limited space.
  7. Again, you’re taking a monetary loss for another person. The end result is identical to you selling your mats on the TP and mailing the difference to your guildie.
  8. That’s also circumventing the TP, but in a different manner. Not a valid reason.
  9. # Again, you’re taking a monetary loss for another person. The end result is identical to you selling your breather on the TP and mailing the difference to your guildie.
  10. That’s a separate issue with the mailing system.

TL;DR: All of your cases (except item-for-item trading) are either circumventing the market, which should never be allowed, or they have results that can already be achieved with the TP. And item-for-item trading is a gray area, so giving it official support won’t happen.

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Posted by: Shades.4572

Shades.4572

  1. So you’re taking a voluntary monetary loss. You could just sell the item on the TP and mail the difference to the guy who wanted to buy it. Same end result.
  2. This is exactly the same situation as above.
  3. Um… what? Does something like that really happen?
  4. How would that be any different from the current mail system? After all, you can’t have the mail system automatically sending out the salvaged materials. So it would be greens/blues for gold, then materials for gold. On both transactions, someone has to take the blind trust role.
  5. Circumventing the market. Not a valid reason.
  6. Again, that would be based on an honor system, which means it’s no different from the current one. Not to mention that the mail system has limited space.
  7. Again, you’re taking a monetary loss for another person. The end result is identical to you selling your mats on the TP and mailing the difference to your guildie.
  8. That’s also circumventing the TP, but in a different manner. Not a valid reason.
  9. # Again, you’re taking a monetary loss for another person. The end result is identical to you selling your breather on the TP and mailing the difference to your guildie.
  10. That’s a separate issue with the mailing system.

TL;DR: All of your cases (except item-for-item trading) are either circumventing the market, which should never be allowed, or they have results that can already be achieved with the TP. And item-for-item trading is a gray area, so giving it official support won’t happen.

  1. They actually WANT the item and are going to USE the item. Selling it on the tp and giving them the difference isn’t the same thing at all.
  2. Again they want the food to use. I’m fine with selling it to them for a loss since there are going to use it. Them placing a bid for items could take anywhere from a min to a day to get the item. I am giving it them right away.
  3. Yes I’ve had it happen at least 5x in a group. The majority of the group wanted to stack and range and one person didn’t have a ranged weapon. Or another time a guardian forgot/didn’t have a staff for killing blooms running through TA. I remember one of those times I even left the dungeon to make them an item and came back.
  4. It would be different because it’s just the honor system the 1st trade and the second trade they will give me the mats and I will give them more items. Basically it would make it easier to keep track of. No gold is involved.
  5. Understandable as not a valid reason since it is a work around, but in all fairness a guildie of mine preferred to sell it to me for the lower cost of 50c apiece then to noface on the bltp. So this example is just viseversa of my others and he is the one knowingly taking the loss.
  6. Actually with the way I would do it, with a trade system it wouldn’t be on the honor system. I would with my mats make the item before the trade, and then when we trade I would trade the item for my mats back basically.
  7. Again the person wants the mats right away, but they don’t want to pay the extra coin for the buy now prices. I am just offering them the mats (at my loss) at the bid offer price so they can have them with out wait.
  8. I see how that is a work around, but the point is they don’t want their blueprint to go to other servers hence why they don’t sell them on the bltp.
  9. Again why would I mail my guildie the difference when they actually want to USE the item. It would different if they just want to sell it for a little profit since I cut them a deal, but they plan on using it. Placing a high bid offer on the beathers can take a while to get. I am simply just offering it for a price they would be willing to pay with out the wait.
  10. Separate issue with the mail system or not. it is a part of my list of ways I would use a private trade system.
  11. Another reason I came up with in a post above trading mats at a 1:1 ratio such as scales for blood. I’ve done that in he past when someone was trying to craft a certain armor set, as well as when they were trying to lvl their crafting.

I also put up a post of my item to work around the issues I foresee about a private trade system. I don’t see it as that big of a deal having a private trade system. Basically if you trust someone we can already trade around the bltp, but through the mail system you can loss track of things. Adding a trade system would just make it nicer for people who want to trade with friends, party members, or guildies (not a noface on the bltp). There are plenty of other games where there is a community run tp or market AND private trade systems so what’s the big deal with adding one to gw2.

TL;DR If I wanted profit I would use the bltp, but that’s not the case with personal trades. The people I would trade with actually WANTS the item to use it. Mailing them the difference would not help. They want the item I have the item, so we trade it’s as simple as that.

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Posted by: Nar.8327

Nar.8327

It will never happen. Why? Because the TP is the biggest gold sink in the game, and implementing a trade system or any “safe” way to circumvent it would have lasting and dramatic effects on both the community (trade advertisements everywhere from sellers who don’t want to lose 15% of their item’s value) and the economy.

Player trading outside of the TP wasn’t overlooked, or left unfinished. It was left out intentionally.

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Posted by: Dragsooth.4071

Dragsooth.4071

We do need a mail system like this, as long as it charges the same as Black Lion TP AND makes you manually enter in the amount to confirm, what’s the problem?

:3

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Posted by: Stars.2179

Stars.2179

The problem is that personal trade system allowed for underground trading / price cut , secret hidden pricing , even if they apply the 15% charging fee. Those things are against the principles which they have established. All prices are competitive and open for competition. No whispering to undercut prices.

It also minimize WTB/WTS spams on the map chat.

No underground trading allowed. If you do underground trading, you take the risk, it’s your own fault. Though can be done with your guildies / friends, which you can do it base on trust, but that’s a different story.

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Posted by: Stars.2179

Stars.2179

Also, trading X amount of A to Y amount of B would also be considered illegal trade. Each item A and B has a market equilibrium value in gold to it. The only way to make it a fair trade for both traders is through the legal market itself i.e., the TP. Circumventing it may mean that one of the trade get a better deal out of the trade since the other one might not know the market value of the trade itself, which is a reason why it is illegal. Now whether the person is capable of looking up the prices and compute the value of the trade or not is irrelevant here. The TP exists to protect player from these kind of shady trades which many opportunists WILL exploit.

Here I use the term “legal / illegal” to mean as defined in game by ArenaNet, not in the court of law sense.

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Posted by: Shades.4572

Shades.4572

First off I would like to state that if the buyer or anyone in a personal trade gets riped off it is their fault. The tp is available to look at no matter where you are in the game, so if they choose not to do a quick search to check the value of the item they are buying them ya it’s their fault. If that comes off as being harsh so be it, but you can look at the tp ANYTIME you want.

Secondly I already suggested that they create another chat of /trade so that those who want to spam a chat can do so in that channel. If they spam /m or /s chat with wtb then they should get a temp ban in ALL chats for ~1-3days. The ban should stop people from repeating the offense of spamming /m with trade offers and people can filter out the /trade chat if they don’t want to see it.

Lastly is the listing fee issue and which I’m sure Anet could figure out some nifty way to add it to the personal trade that will be equal to the bltp fees. Personal trading is already in the game (on the honor system) without the listing fee. If they didn’t want us to be able to trade items outside the market why give us the ability to send items in the first place. If they wanted no trading outside the bltp then we would only be able to mail gold or nothing at all.

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Posted by: Lorelei.7809

Lorelei.7809

Personal trading systems are not flawed due to their code, they are flawed due to the users. Particularly because part of the point of personal trade systems is the ability to undercut the trading post. GW1 had a personal trading system and many people got scammed in it. Why? Because no matter how good of a system you have, someone can always price hike and/or a buyer can buy something for nearly nothing.

The only way a personal trading system could work without those issues is if it price checked the items in the TP, and made sure the buyer sent back that much in gold. Which defeats the entire purpose. So yeah, you might be able to code that, and the system wouldn’t get abused, but then the functionality of being able to go under market value with someone sometimes wouldn’t be there. Programming doesn’t magically change human nature.

If you want to personally trade something, trade it to someone you trust. Send it via unsecure mail, and expect payment in return. I have actually asked for nothing (with people I don’t know) and got paid a couple of times via unsecure mail. Also, since I have traded with people I trust, I have never once not gotten paid for an item I sent via unsecure mail.

A personal trading system is already in place! Mail. You just have to use it with people you trust.

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Posted by: mtpelion.4562

mtpelion.4562

The idea is pointless, since we can already do that via the TP, and the TP prevents scamming which would occur in a trade system.

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Posted by: Dand.8231

Dand.8231

Lots of replies here, so I’ll respond in a general sense rather than quote anyone specific.

Economy Collapse
First of all, a direct trading system exists in virtually ALL other MMO’s out there. To anyone saying it would “destroy teh economyz!” try to keep that fact in mind. GW2 is the exception for not having a direct trading system, not the other way around. It’s economy is a black sheep among MMO’s that has no direct trade, CoD, or other such means.

Scammers
People will always get scammed. With, without a direct trade system, it doesn’t matter. Scamming and Social Engineering goes back to the very beginning of recorded history and is one of the darker sides of human nature. It exists across all mediums, and as long as people are they way they are, will always exist regardless of what they use to carry it out.

Technical Exploits
Any system out there can be exploited somehow. I’ve seen people place buy orders on the current TP en-masse before they can all be fully processed, and then cancel them en-masse backlogging the server, claim the gold they haven’t yet been charged for to place the order, and then mailing it all off to an alt account before the server can catch up, creating hundreds or even thousands of gold out of ‘thin-air.’ For the record, ANet fixed this a long ago.

So everyone whos saying the TP is flawless, and does everything we need… Sorry to burst your bubble here, but: You’re wrong. Your cherished TP is just as vulnerable to exploits as anything else.

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Posted by: mtpelion.4562

mtpelion.4562

You’re asking for time to be committed to developing and policing a redundant system of exchange.

The TP already does everything that is needed, which makes an additional trading system pointless.

I’m not saying the TP is flawless, I’m saying there is no need for your idea because it is already being done.

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Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

I don’t want map chat flooded with WTB. Sure there can be a specific trade channel designated for it. But when has that ever kept “WTB” flood posts in trade channels?

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Posted by: AzureShiron.7658

AzureShiron.7658

yeah no this is not okay on any lvl

If you think this post is about you, it probably is

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Posted by: Stars.2179

Stars.2179

Nope, no personal trade with CoD. Nope and nope. It will never happens. I say GW2 is the only MMO that doesn’t do that. It is a good thing. I say it’s the only white sheep among all current MMOs.

If I want to buy / sell something, TP displays all possible options that people are willing to trade earnestly. I don’t want to know if there is a “better” deal by some shady people. I don’t want to be secretly undercut by these people either. If they want to compete, put it on the TP and compete openly.