Guild Wars 2

Take the 500~1000 most expensive items on the Trading Post (that aren’t Legendaries or Mystic Forge recipe-exotics like Foefire’s Power)…
And stick them onto the Black Lion Chest loot table at a reasonable drop rate (like 0.1 to 2%).

1. Keys will start selling more consistently. ArenaNet makes money.
2. Merchants will make moderate to epic profit.
3. The masses will get a greater supply of the rarest items.
   (Like Precursors, super-popular Dyes, possibly Charged Lodestones, etc..)

Everybody wins.

Apart from the everlasting merchant, black lion trader and bank access there is no real desire to open them. I would love to see lodestones or exotics go in there. I might start buying more!

Tobran.6542:

I would love to see lodestones or exotics go in there. I might start buying more!

That’s how Nexon makes their money. Gachapon!

DreamOfACure.4382:

1. Keys will start selling more consistently. ArenaNet makes money.
2. Merchants will make moderate to epic profit.
3. The masses will get a greater supply of the rarest items.
   (Like Precursors, super-popular Dyes, possibly Charged Lodestones, etc..)

Everybody wins.

Or alternatively:

1. People see ANet going back on its promises, ANet loses respect (This is not P2W)
2. Merchants make insane profit too easily, which inflates the rest of the market
3. Increased supply makes the prices for the better items drop, while inflation makes the price of everything else to go up. And we’ll end up rotating the 500 best items in the chest.

Everybody loses

Fred Fargone.3127:

1. People see ANet going back on its promises, ANet loses respect (This is not P2W)
2. Merchants make insane profit too easily, which inflates the rest of the market
3. Increased supply makes the prices for the better items drop, while inflation makes the price of everything else to go up. And we’ll end up rotating the 500 best items in the chest.

• Having those items in offered in a Gem-Store accessed chest is not P2W in if the chances are as low as the glorious chests from Dungeons.
  A feature is only pay to win if it monopolizes a resource or is so superior that the players can’t help but use it. And my suggestion isn’t indicating that.

• The smartest merchants are already making insane amounts of profit, and how much they profit from this is gated by the above point (that the chances are kept as low as dungeon/dragon chests).

• Inflation is an entirely different issue.

Misinterpreting ArenaNet’s stance.
Stating an irrelevant truth
Pulling in an unrelated issue to try to strawman the topic

You’re the one whose trying to make everyone lose.

DreamOfACure.4382:

1. Keys will start selling more consistently. ArenaNet makes money.
2. Merchants will make moderate to epic profit.

• Having those items in offered in a Gem-Store accessed chest is not P2W in if the chances are as low as the glorious chests from Dungeons.
  A feature is only pay to win if it monopolizes a resource or is so superior that the players can’t help but use it. And my suggestion isn’t indicating that.

And stick them onto the Black Lion Chest loot table at a reasonable drop rate (like 0.1 to 2%).

1. The masses will get a greater supply of the rarest items.
   (Like Precursors, super-popular Dyes, possibly Charged Lodestones, etc..)

Every 50th chest dropping some 10g-600g item(s). Seems reasonable.

DreamOfACure.4382:

• The smartest merchants are already making insane amounts of profit, and how much they profit from this is gated by the above point (that the chances are kept as low as dungeon/dragon chests).

Still, fueling inflation because “it’s already happening” is rather a poor excuse.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Misinterpreting ArenaNet’s stance.

Are you saying ANet’s stance is “This is P2W”? Well, to educate yourself, here is from the official blog:

Here’s our philosophy on microtransactions: We think players should have the opportunity to spend money on items that provide visual distinction and offer more ways to express themselves. They should also be able to spend money on account services and on time-saving convenience items. But it’s never OK for players to buy a game and not be able to enjoy what they paid for without additional purchases, and it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time.

DreamOfACure.4382:

• Inflation is an entirely different issue.

Stating an irrelevant truth
Pulling in an unrelated issue to try to strawman the topic

I do like how you’re saying I’m right, but it doesn’t matter because feeding tons of the highest demand items in to the economy is completely unrelated to inflation. Right.

Fred Fargone.3127:

Still, fueling inflation because “it’s already happening” is rather a poor excuse.

It’s not an excuse. It’s economics.

Inflation doesn’t affect this idea, that’s why I say it’s an irrelevant truth.

Fred Fargone.3127:

I do like how you’re saying I’m right, but it doesn’t matter because feeding tons of the highest demand items in to the economy is completely unrelated to inflation. Right.

Do you even know what Inflation is?

Inflation is the increase of prices because the amount of money circulating grows faster then the amount of goods.

Example:
Unidentified Dyes (a good) are currently selling for 15~20 silver (the money), depending on the time of day.

Let’s suppose ArenaNet doubles coin-drop-rates, so everyone in the open world is making twice as much money.
Then the price of Unid. Dyes would probably skyrocket up to 30~40 silver.

And that would have nothing to do with supply-and-demand. People just have more money to throw around, so prices go up.

Supply-and-Demand are a separate phenomenon from the above example

Example:
Unidentified Dyes used to sell for 2~5 silver each.

• A few months ago, they quintupled in price up to 15~20silver

This had nothing to do with inflation, but the simple matter that Gift of Color was added/changed to required 250 unidentified dyes in its recipe.
This made demand go up enormously (causing supply to go down), making players willing to buy higher prices, causing the standard price to rise.

That is supply-and-demand.

—

So, yes.

Dumping a ton of the rarest items into the economy would be unrelated to inflation.
Unless players were all stupid enough to sell those items to NPC vendors, and raise the amount of coin in circulation – But that amount of inflation wouldn’t even be noticeable.

Fred Fargone.3127:

Are you saying ANet’s stance is “This is P2W”?

I’m saying this idea is not Pay2Win. So it does not conflict with ArenaNet’s promises.

Their stance is that they don’t support Pay2Win.
Pay2Win is only when a Paid-feature is the only way to productively achieve something.

This idea is not the only way. People are is acquiring those items from Glorious Chests, Mystic Forge, and Orrian Jewelry Boxes.

This concept would have it so that the drop rate from Black Lion Chests be no better then those options, but still a viable option by comparison.

So, not P2W. Just a Payable option in the game. Like changing Gems for Gold.

—

Inflation is a natural unending phenomenon in MMOs, including GW2.
This is because players are constantly selling trash drops to NPCs for coin.

The only way to mitigate this inflation is through gold-sinks such as way point fees, npc goods, like crafting mats and guild-points; things that permanently remove gold from the market.
But, developers will never put enough gold-sinks as to stop inflation entirely – Cause if players can’t make money, the game would stop being fun.

And it has nothing to do with supply and demand.
Inflation and Supply-and-Demand simply share a common relation that intertwines them together:

• Currency

I didn’t think I would have to explain all that in this thread, but there it is~

DreamOfACure.4382:

It’s not an excuse. It’s economics.
Inflation doesn’t affect this idea, that’s why I say it’s an irrelevant truth.

Do you even know what Inflation is?

Inflation is the increase of prices because the amount of money circulating grows faster then the amount of goods.

Okey, thanks for this reminder, but I was referring to the fact that pouring high priced products to the economy will cause a certain amount of individuals to have higher (read insane) amount of gold at their disposal. Thus letting them control the market (better). Thus increasing the prices of certain products while decreasing the prices of other products. A phenomenon similar enough to inflation that I’d rather call it inflation for simplicity’s sake. (That, and I can’t remember the correct term for it.)

For example, in a small closed economy system of 100 people, 3 are given enough gronium to acquire 90% of the whole wealth the system has. If they want something, they buy it. For the rest of the 97 people in the system, prices seem to be going up for everything else, except for the gronium. Who cares if its inflation or not if has the same effect?

DreamOfACure.4382:

I’m saying this IDEA is not Pay2Win. So it does not conflict with ArenaNet’s promises.

Well, obviously I’m saying it is. Say, you get insane amount of gold by opening 50 BLTC chests, how is that not P2W?

DreamOfACure.4382:

Their stance is that they don’t support Pay2Win.
Pay2Win is only when a Paid-feature is the only way to productively achieve something.

Depending on the definition of P2W, yes. But read the micro transactions quote.

DreamOfACure.4382:

This idea is not the only way. People are is acquiring those items from Glorious Chests, Mystic Forge, and Orrian Jewelry Boxes.

This concept would have it so that the drop rate from Black Lion Chests be no better then those options, but still a viable option by comparison.

So, not P2W. Just a Payable option in the game.

Well, the numbers you were giving earlier were way off then. 2% droprate for 10g-600g items is insane, so is 0.1% if you think about it. And putting it at 0.01% doesn’t have quite the effect on the key sales you described.

I kinda of like the idea especially with the drop rates you suggested. Anyone knows that just because something may have a 2% chance to drop DOESN’T mean if you open 100 chests you’ll get 2 items, that’s just a CHANCE. Yes, opening more chests would mean increasing your chances in the big picture, but that’d be sinking a lot of gems/real money into the game.

Ridkal Enrealm.3280:

I kinda of like the idea especially with the drop rates you suggested. Anyone knows that just because something may have a 2% chance to drop DOESN’T mean if you open 100 chests you’ll get 2 items, that’s just a CHANCE. Yes, opening more chests would mean increasing your chances in the big picture, but that’d be sinking a lot of gems/real money into the game.

Still, with 10,000 people opening 100 chests each, they would get 2 items on the average. What do you think would happen if those items cost 50g on the average?

Fred Fargone.3127:

Okey, thanks for this reminder, but I was referring to the fact that pouring high priced products to the economy will cause a certain amount of individuals to have higher (read insane) amount of gold at their disposal. Thus letting them control the market (better). Thus increasing the prices of certain products while decreasing the prices of other products. A phenomenon similar enough to inflation that I’d rather call it inflation for simplicity’s sake. (That, and I can’t remember the correct term for it.)

That’s just artificial increase in demand.
Like how rich people can artificially drive a $100,000 value item up to $500,000 at an auction.

And in this game, we have it much better then real life, because buyers can list what they’re willing to buy at. I order items up to 20% below Seller prices and sell to Buy-Orders all the time.
The feature of Buyer-Orders helps a lot to counteract artificial demand from merchants.

But still, none of this is unhealthy to an economy like how too much inflation would be. It’s just a classic buy-low-sell-high(-and-expand) tactic that’s worked for centuries.

It doesn’t cause inflation.

(The only time when market manipulation is an issue is when someone forms
a monopoly.
But that’s nigh impossible in a game like GW2 with such a rigorously gated market)

Fred Fargone.3127:

Well, the numbers you were giving earlier were way off then. 2% droprate for 10g-600g items is insane, so is 0.1% if you think about it. And putting it at 0.01% doesn’t have quite the effect on the key sales you described.

Those are just numbers. -_- It’s my mistake for putting them there in the first place.

Those can always be adjusted and shouldn’t be something to fixate on.

As for inflation, we could’ve avoided the whole inflation talk if you had read carefully what you quoted me saying in the first place: “inflates the rest of the market.”
Your reply made me feel like I was wrong about something but I couldn’t quite identify what. Oh well. ._.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Fred Fargone.3127:

Well, the numbers you were giving earlier were way off then. 2% droprate for 10g-600g items is insane, so is 0.1% if you think about it. And putting it at 0.01% doesn’t have quite the effect on the key sales you described.

Those are just numbers. -_- It’s my mistake for putting them there in the first place.

Those can always be adjusted and shouldn’t be something to fixate on.

Still, the numbers would need to be low enough not to cause the effect on the key sales you described. Since the effect you describe (increased key sales) is assuming it would be profitable for the people to pay irl money to gain in game advantage.

Also, exclude precursors and anything that costs 50g+ just to be safe.

I am not sure if having sallable stuff in the chests is a good idea, but more stuff in the chest wound be nice, not just boosts and a few coins.
Since you already can buy gems and turn them in to gold, I don’t see OP’s suggestion to be P2W.