Guild Wars 2

TL;DR
See “Suggestion” below

Problems

I have two level 80 characters, and I am a member in an active guild. I really like GW2, so I’ve been introducing friends to it. However, I found that GW2 isn’t friendly to new players.

Problem #1: My friend (who is new to the game) only has access to low-level characters and is restricted to low-level activities. This prevents (or at least heavily penalizes) him from participating in many guild and dungeon activities that are the bread-and-butter of established players. I’m more than happy to set some time aside to play with him, but he is effectively locked out of the guild experiences I most want to share. The core experience of GW2 is a social, cooperative one. Isolating a new player until he grinds up to L80 is not an ideal introduction to the game.

Problem #2: I recently made an alt and found out that playing a new character (level 6 to 17-ish) is even more difficult than playing a level 80 at end-game. Even with my knowledge of the game and familiarity with the controls, I died a lot. Generally, the difficulty progression of a game should go easiest to most difficult, not the other way around. A new player shouldn’t be faced with peak difficulty while he is still learning the game.

Analysis

Problem #1 is a deliberate design decision to gate content using vertical progression. You are gently reminded that you shouldn’t be in a higher-level area by getting one- or two-shotted. However, there is no reason why a new player shouldn’t be able to travel with more experienced friends and actually do some good besides giving companions revive XP. All this gating mechanic does is make it more difficult for people to play with their friends.

Problem #2 has to do with lack of survival resources that new players have. Difficulty peaks roughly between levels 6 and 17 because characters don’t have enough weapon/utility skills, armor, et cetera to deal with the significant increase in monster power that happens around that time. The idea to start a character off with scarce resources was put in place, as far as I can tell, as sort of a tutorial that allows players to learn skills and traits one at a time. However, the inclusion of a level 0 tutorial zone later in 2013 will remove the need for this feature.

Suggestion

You can eliminate these two problems by making the vertical progression component less drastic and by trusting the level 0 tutorial enough to give characters a bigger skill bar early on.

All characters should have level 80 base stats and hit points. All weapons should have level 80 weapon power and all armor should have level 80 defense. A character should start with all armor pieces. None of these statistics increase with level.

Weapons and armor still have stat bonuses (+10 vitality, etc.) that increase with item level, and their weapon power and defense vary with quality (masterwork, ascended, etc.). The player can spend trait points and skill points normally and still unlocks an elite skill at level 30.

When the player skips or ends the soon-to-be-added level 0 tutorial for the first time, he or she may choose a profession-appropriate weapon set (main and offhand or a single two-handed weapon), for which he or she knows all weapon skills for. The character should also be able to choose three utility skills.

The level 0 tutorial should be accessible from various NPCs in the living world at any time a player can interact with one. If the player needs time to learn how to use a weapon or utility skill, the level 0 tutorial should be considered the place to do it. When the player enters the living world, the tutorial is over until the player returns. No part of the living world should be a tutorial.

Monsters should be balanced by expected player skill and resources per area. Additional effects of level disparity (likliehood of glancing blows and critical hits) should be removed. Since the level scaling system won’t do anything anymore, it should also be removed.

The crafting system might also need to be revamped.

Benefits

• New players don’t need to grind to play with their established friends.
• Established players don’t need to isolate themselves from guild activities to play with new players.
• Ensures a smooth increase in difficulty from early to late game.
• Maintains some aspect of vertical character growth; levels still have benefits.
• Growth in power can be more easily be understood because damage numbers are no longer relative to area.
• Monsters can be better balanced to provide appropriate challenge for all characters.
• Allows players to better regulate difficulty.

Basically you are asking for no levels at all or instant level 80 for new players.
Remember, that is why they are called “new characters” because they can’t and shouldn’t be able to do what “veteran characters” can.
As you see for yourself, A-net has added this Living Story content that boosts up all low levels to lvl 80 so they CAN play the content.
I think it is enough for new players to experiment how the high level zones are.

Solution(s): Layer 2 leveling to accommodate for above stated problems and to gain core game content access. Parts of layer 1 leveling could be moved to layer 2 if needed. Both level layers are independent and transparent of each other. Layer 1 uses experience points to level and is used as a personal progress metric and requires a lengthier time frame to progress in while layer 2 is based on a tutorial type, step-by-step, quick level progressing system…more to this later.

Ehm, you know that technically GW2 falls in the RPG genre, right? And that level progression ist a defining characteristic of this genre? You are basically suggesting a completely different game. Do you really think it makes any sense to make such a suggestion?
I don’t know any MMORPG that has faster leveling than GW2 and besides, your guild could easily go to low level areas and play there with your new members.

Ronah.2869:

Basically you are asking for no levels at all or instant level 80 for new players.
Remember, that is why they are called “new characters” because they can’t and shouldn’t be able to do what “veteran characters” can.

ASaturnus.4980:

Ehm, you know that technically GW2 falls in the RPG genre, right? And that level progression is a defining characteristic of this genre?

I am not asking for no levels at all or instant level 80. I’m asking for a less-severe vertical progression. “Veteran characters” will still have advantages over “new characters”, including:

• higher attribute bonuses from high-level items
• attribute bonuses from trait allocation
• abilities from minor traits, major traits and item upgrade slots.
• an elite skill
• a second weapon set.

All in all, a veteran character will have 2000+ more attribute points than a new character, which gives a huge advantage to the veteran. Granted, the veteran will not be ten thousand times stronger than the new character, but levels will have enough of an effect to qualify the GW2 depicted in my suggestion as an RPG and satisfy your criteria.

Ronah.2869:

As you see for yourself, A-net has added this Living Story content that boosts up all low levels to lvl 80 so they CAN play the content.

That’s a nice start, but it doesn’t help for guild missions or dungeons. It also doesn’t fix the problem of the game’s difficulty peaking in the 6 – 17 level range, nor does it solve the situation in which a level 80 character can gather a huge pack of low-level monsters and auto-attack them to death without worrying about mitigating damage. I think a cleaner, more systemic solution is called for, rather than a system of a thousand exceptions.

Zahld.4956:

Solution(s): Layer 2 leveling to accommodate for above stated problems and to gain core game content access. Parts of layer 1 leveling could be moved to layer 2 if needed. Both level layers are independent and transparent of each other. Layer 1 uses experience points to level and is used as a personal progress metric and requires a lengthier time frame to progress in while layer 2 is based on a tutorial type, step-by-step, quick level progressing system…more to this later.

I didn’t understand anything that you just said. Maybe you could expand this idea?

ASaturnus.4980:

I don’t know any MMORPG that has faster leveling than GW2 and besides, your guild could easily go to low level areas and play there with your new members.

90+ hours to level a character from start to max is very fast considering other MMOs, but when you look at it in terms of “90 hours of solo grinding before I can play with my friends” it doesn’t look so good anymore.

My guild is full of nice people, but it’s unreasonable to ask them to drop all progress towards their own acheivements whenever somebody starts GW2 or makes a new alt. It sounds like a solution on paper, but it doesn’t work in practice.

Ideally, people should be able to join their friends with minimum disruption when their friends are on. If a player is going to go through content, the player should be allowed to participate and contribute – he or she should never be useless. When a player follows his or her own story, the challenges faced should be easy at first and smoothly become more difficult as the game progresses – new players should not face the highest difficulty in the living world.

Have two level bars.

Silverdawn.8947:

1. All characters should have level 80 base stats and hit points. All weapons should have level 80 weapon power and all armor should have level 80 defense. A character should start with all armor pieces. None of these statistics increase with level.
2. Weapons and armor still have stat bonuses (+10 vitality, etc.) that increase with item level, and their weapon power and defense vary with quality (masterwork, ascended, etc.). The player can spend trait points and skill points normally and still unlocks an elite skill at level 30.
3. Monsters should be balanced by expected player skill and resources per area. Additional effects of level disparity (likliehood of glancing blows and critical hits) should be removed. Since the level scaling system won’t do anything anymore, it should also be removed.

1. What the hell? If everyone has the same stats, then how do you differentiate a low level area from a high level area? How do you know whether someone is a rookie in a game where you can spend real life money to get your gear?
2. So first you say that you should have all stats, then you say they shouldn’t. Really, that’s very incoherent.
3. Ok, let’s get one thing straight. YOU CANNOT BALANCE AROUND PLAYER SKILL. That’s just not possible. And let me tell you something: Level scaling is one of the best things to ever happen to the genre of MMORPGs, it doesn’t need to go anywhere, it needs to be more common.

The thing is, the guild content was something that the level 80s asked because there was nothing to do as a guild. It was never something that you were supposed to be doing at level 10.

There is already appropriate scaling in dungeons and it’s in place for a reason. If anything, I think that it’s kittening awesome that a level 30 character can do a dungeon with a level 80. The thing is, dungeons are not newbie content. They were never meant to be that and they never should be.

Olba.5376:

1. What the hell? If everyone has the same stats, then how do you differentiate a low level area from a high level area? How do you know whether someone is a rookie in a game where you can spend real life money to get your gear?
2. So first you say that you should have all stats, then you say they shouldn’t. Really, that’s very incoherent.
3. Ok, let’s get one thing straight. YOU CANNOT BALANCE AROUND PLAYER SKILL. That’s just not possible. And let me tell you something: Level scaling is one of the best things to ever happen to the genre of MMORPGs, it doesn’t need to go anywhere, it needs to be more common.

The thing is, the guild content was something that the level 80s asked because there was nothing to do as a guild. It was never something that you were supposed to be doing at level 10.

There is already appropriate scaling in dungeons and it’s in place for a reason. If anything, I think that it’s kittening awesome that a level 30 character can do a dungeon with a level 80. The thing is, dungeons are not newbie content. They were never meant to be that and they never should be.

Settle down, dude. I said level 1 characters should have the same “base stats” and hit points as a level 80 character. “Base stats” (power, precision, vitality and toughness) are what’s left over when you remove all items and have 0 in every trait line. So, a level 15 character will have the base stats and hp of a level 80 character, but he can still only equip up to level 15 items. The weapon power statistic of his weapons and the defense statistic of his armor will be set to level 80, but everything else (like the attribute bonuses from items) will be determined by the item level, just as they are in the status quo. I hope that makes things a bit clearer. It should answer most of your concerns expressed in #1 and #2.

I’m not sure why you’re saying that you can’t balance around player skill. Perhaps I misused an expression that had a technical definition I was unaware of. So, let me try again: low-level areas should be crafted with the assumption that new players are playing the content with characters who fall in the level range for the zone. Monster statistics should be chosen accordingly, but monsters should also attack more slowly and telegraph their big attacks to account for players who aren’t highly skilled yet. Playing a level 10 character in a level 10 area should be easier than playing a level 80 in a level 80 zone. Currently, I don’t think that’s the case.

I do agree with you that GW2 is a better game with level scaling than without, but it was designed to address problems that would be solved by implementing my suggestion. In other words, it would become redundant.

Perhaps guild content was never meant for low-level characters, but perhaps this approach needs to be re-thought. After all, it is called “guild content”. Everybody in the guild should be allowed to participate. The alternative is just to encourage the isolation low-level guild members, as is often currently the case.

I share your enthusiasm that a level 30 character can crawl a dungeon with a level 80 (I presume you mean in Ascalon Catacombs—Story Mode), but I don’t understand why the same “kittening awesome”-ness doesn’t apply to the exact same scenario in another dungeon (like Honor of the Waves—Explorable). A newbie will be disadvantaged enough from missing out on a lot of attribute points from traits and items, not to mention lack of familiarity with the controls. I don’t know why so many people advocate making every enemy in the dungeon able to one-shot them on top of this.

Silverdawn.8947:

90+ hours to level a character from start to max is very fast considering other MMOs, but when you look at it in terms of “90 hours of solo grinding before I can play with my friends” it doesn’t look so good anymore.

Why solo grinding for 90+ hours? You said they are your friends, right? If so, you should help them and not just have them instantly where you are. If you think gathering achievements is more important then helping the “so called” friends, then don’t do it but don’t consider it the game’s fault, because it is not

New players are new, they NEED to learn the game

New characters implies that player has another high level character. I guess no one is leveling 8 professions when he/she just starts to play the game.

Plus, there is always crafting… no need to explain that
and check out these pictures.
These were achieved solo-ing the game with no crafting involved.
I guess with crafting (P2W gems store, /wink) you can get it in under 10h

There should of been a recruit-a-friend option, where playing in a party together grants the both of you bonus exp.

Charak.9761:

There should of been a recruit-a-friend option, where playing in a party together grants the both of you bonus exp.

Mentor system? why you people want to transform GW2 into a Chinese game?
Besides, you get exp in any zone you play according to your level so high level characters don’t get excluded from bonuses and they help the low level kill foes faster which implies leveling him faster.
I am a lazy person myself, but I think now i have seen even lazier then me

Ronah.2869:

Charak.9761:

There should of been a recruit-a-friend option, where playing in a party together grants the both of you bonus exp.

Mentor system? why you people want to transform GW2 into a Chinese game?
Besides, you get exp in any zone you play according to your level so high level characters don’t get excluded from bonuses and they help the low level kill foes faster which implies leveling him faster.
I am a lazy person myself, but I think now i have seen even lazier then me

Its from WoW, it also helps if you want to level a new character at the same time as inviting a new friend.

The mentor system did not originate from WoW, they merely adopted it and, because they’re an MMO behemoth, everyone knows of it from WoW.

Also, there’s no point in having a mentor system as most of your experience comes from Hearts, Events, and simply completing zones instead of killing mobs.

If experience from that did pass on to those, then it would be broken since you’d just sit there with a mentor crafting yourself up.

OPs suggestions aren’t bad.