Guild Wars 2

An idea I had is to separate WvW maps into their own map completion bar apart from PvE map completion. There could be another icon for showing WvW map completion as well. (A star with the castle icon for WvW, maybe? Eh, might be better ideas)

Completion of either map bar could give a Gift of Exploration for each one. (thus, you could still get a Gift of Exploration even if you don’t do PvE at all, and vice versa for those who don’t WvW.)

Any thoughts?

WvW map completion can be done in a few hours on a low population server – with a few friends. No real challenge there compared to PvE Map completion/exploration which is much harder.

Unfortunately I don’t agree with this change.
I do however understand the difficulty of completing WvW Maps to 100% in busy T1 servers – the only workaround here is to wait a week till you change position (colour) and go explore a bit at a time.

TPMN.1483:

WvW map completion can be done in a few hours on a low population server – with a few friends. No real challenge there compared to PvE Map completion/exploration which is much harder.

Unfortunately I don’t agree with this change.
I do however understand the difficulty of completing WvW Maps to 100% in busy T1 servers – the only workaround here is to wait a week till you change position (colour) and go explore a bit at a time.

Then shouldn’t those who manage to do that in a T1 server have something to show for it?

And how many players go for more than one legendary? It would reduce the number of I hate WvW I’m just here for my gifts of exploration players in WvW taking up slots for those who do wish to actually play WvW on those T1 servers where there are likely still queues for WvW.

As well as let the players who play WvW solely have a means of getting the gift of exploration without having to do PvE. I imagine for those who hate PvE as much as players who hate WvW, doing the 90%+ exploration of PvE probably feels like it takes ages.

At least this suggestion doesn’t open up ways to play spy in WvW as some suggestions have proposed.

There are plenty of dead hours in WvW – the mapping achievement can be done quite quickly. The only difficulty is that you may have to do it over several weeks and not all in one session (on a T1 server) a % of the map each time.

I would be surprised if you could do all the PvE mapping in a single week.
I honestly don’t mind seeing the few people mapping in WvW at least this way some PvE players get to see what WvW is also about. At least if they are mapping in WvW chances are they have a decent level character already with reasonable equipment.

I don’t think players who do WvW exclusively should be able to earn a legendary just because they have mapped WvW (it honestly is too easy to map that zone).
It’s a much harder challenge mapping straights of desolation, cursed shore and Malchors leap.

The whole point of the gift of exploration is it is meant to take time- if it relied on WvW mapping only this could be done in <24 game hours (WvW mapping is like 2hrs/map x3 on a good day). The PvE world has many more maps and this split would just move even more people from PvE into WvW to get a gift of exploration.

Many players would create new characters (lvl 1) just to map WvW for the gift of exploration and this would annoy the WvW crowd more – as truly squishy people would be there with no real armour. This would cause a lot more griefing than there currently is.

I honestly believe it is good for the WvW people to experience the PvE maps – I understand they may not like it. But if they want there legendary they should prove that they have completed the harder bits of PvE such as Balthazar (for that annoying skill point), Lyssa, Grenth etc.

The whole concept of legendary is that you have helped the world out (PvE and WvW) not just one aspect of gameplay.

“You have helped the world out” or you threw a bunch of money at the difficulties of the world….receiving ‘Legendary status’ is art TRULY imitating life huh

Seera.5916:

(…)It would reduce the hate WvW I’m just here for my gifts of exploration players in WvW taking up slots for those who do wish to actually play WvW on those T1 servers where there are likely still queues for WvW.(…)

There are much bigger fish to fry like AFKers, it’s not uncommon to see people just standing at the waypoint for 30, 60+ minutes taking the occasional step so they won’t get kicked.

At least people that are trying to get the map are doing something, you need to get inside towers and keeps after all.
Take it from someone who has the complete WvW map on 4 toons, AFKers are a bigger problem.

Lastly, it won’t change because it would be not only unfair, but exploitable too.

Dean Calaway.9718:

Seera.5916:

(…)It would reduce the hate WvW I’m just here for my gifts of exploration players in WvW taking up slots for those who do wish to actually play WvW on those T1 servers where there are likely still queues for WvW.(…)

There are much bigger fish to fry like AFKers, it’s not uncommon to see people just standing at the waypoint for 30, 60+ minutes taking the occasional step so they won’t get kicked.

At least people that are trying to get the map are doing something, you need to get inside towers and keeps after all.
Take it from someone who has the complete WvW map on 4 toons, AFKers are a bigger problem.

Lastly, it won’t change because it would be not only unfair, but exploitable too.

I hate WvW because I’m not skilled enough for it. I won’t be taking a tower, I won’t be anywhere near enemies (except the skritt and centaurs near the skill points). I’m just as bad as an AFK’er. There are those of us who are absolutely horrible in WvW trying to do our map completion. We aren’t at risk of getting kicked for inactivity, but a call for action won’t get us moving towards where the action is. In fact, we’ll run to the opposite side of them map.

I still say split it up. Maybe give a “third” achievement which hands out the gifts that’s only requirement is the PvE and WvW achievements. It awards 0 AP. WvW gets 3 AP, PvE gets 2 (WvW gets more since on the more populated WvW tiers getting everything is a bit tied to luck when it comes to which color you’ll be on and if the right tower is being taken. PvE is much more easily done.

This way the completionists can reach 100% map completion with the PvE map if they hate WvW instead of sitting at 95%. Which could be close enough to pop up on the nearly done achievements list and really bug the completionist.

And the con you came up with for the original suggestion is a not as bad of an exploit or missing the point of the achievement as some of the suggestions to handle WvW exploration have been.

WvW exploration is easy !!!
You just wait till the map rotates – you usually can map at least 2/3 of your home borderland. Over a period of 4 weeks you should have it all done- with only 1 hr/ week in WvW.

The only harder bit is waiting for EB Stonemist for a final bit- that can take some time.
It doesn’t even require you to capture or participate in WvW to get this completed.

If you don’t understand this then I think you are doing Something wrong.
This is why I don’t support only having WvW to get a gift of exploration under any circumstances (it’s too easy- and will lead to exploitation!).

Seera.5916:

I hate WvW because I’m not skilled enough for it. I won’t be taking a tower, I won’t be anywhere near enemies (except the skritt and centaurs near the skill points). I’m just as bad as an AFK’er. There are those of us who are absolutely horrible in WvW trying to do our map completion. We aren’t at risk of getting kicked for inactivity, but a call for action won’t get us moving towards where the action is. In fact, we’ll run to the opposite side of them map.(…)

I doubt you’re that horrible at WvW, if you can do dungeons and fractals you’re not useless in WvW.
You’re not spouse to take a tower on your own, just run with a group and the things eventually will come. Play with the map rotation, at the end you might have one or two pesky ones to get that will take time but you’ll get it eventually.
The way people play WvW makes the towers and keeps volatile, they aren’t hold for ever.

As for the exploit, like it was said before, you’d have people creating toons and getting the gift of exploration before deleting them, and doing this over and over again pretty much taking away that part of the difficulty on making a legendary.

Dean Calaway.9718:

Seera.5916:

I hate WvW because I’m not skilled enough for it. I won’t be taking a tower, I won’t be anywhere near enemies (except the skritt and centaurs near the skill points). I’m just as bad as an AFK’er. There are those of us who are absolutely horrible in WvW trying to do our map completion. We aren’t at risk of getting kicked for inactivity, but a call for action won’t get us moving towards where the action is. In fact, we’ll run to the opposite side of them map.(…)

I doubt you’re that horrible at WvW, if you can do dungeons and fractals you’re not useless in WvW.
You’re not spouse to take a tower on your own, just run with a group and the things eventually will come. Play with the map rotation, at the end you might have one or two pesky ones to get that will take time but you’ll get it eventually.
The way people play WvW makes the towers and keeps volatile, they aren’t hold for ever.

As for the exploit, like it was said before, you’d have people creating toons and getting the gift of exploration before deleting them, and doing this over and over again pretty much taking away that part of the difficulty on making a legendary.

I run full clerics and not vet mobile, so unless I’m with a zerg, I go down fast and my server is no tier one due to lack of players.

I see your point. Others in other threads had suggested like a exploration toggle. Which would be used to spy and such. And would have a much worse impact than the one I suggested.

TPMN.1483:

WvW map completion can be done in a few hours on a low population server – with a few friends. No real challenge there compared to PvE Map completion/exploration which is much harder.

Unfortunately I don’t agree with this change.
I do however understand the difficulty of completing WvW Maps to 100% in busy T1 servers – the only workaround here is to wait a week till you change position (colour) and go explore a bit at a time.

What about those who are not on low population servers with no friends? Pretty much the only way if no one helps them out is to wait for the rotation, and even then, there’s a potential chance that there will be certain areas they can still never reach.

PvE map completion (with the exception of possibly the corrupted god temples/statues in Orr) to me isn’t harder, just much longer to finish.

Also, considering all the other things you have to get for a legendary weapon anyway, (some of which being a dungeon gift and obsidian shards which can only be obtained in PvE anyway besides the laurel vendors) it’s not like this change would completely remove the necessity of PvEing—just one long tedious bit.

And unless all the servers in a tier get together and cooperate on this, I don’t think that it could be used to exploit for multiple gifts of exploration quickly anyhow. And the gift itself has no other uses that I know of.

(Besides selling to a vendor for 12.8 silver apiece, but there are much better ways to make in-game money, so who’d do that?)

I think this change would make things better. People who want to complete the map of Tyria just to see it nice and full can do so, and not be looking at a 98% bar, that last bit in WvW mocking them. And WvWers who want a legendary weapon (or just to see the WvW map nice and complete) have a slightly better time about it. I don’t see a downside to it.

“What about those who are not on low population servers with no friends? Pretty much the only way if no one helps them out is to wait for the rotation, and even then, there’s a potential chance that there will be certain areas they can still never reach.”
So if you are on a higher population server – you only have to check out the maps every once in a while- the areas which are volatile like Stone Mist (for example) you could also use something like an external web service which shows exactly what your team has capped. There are plenty of website which will let you know what you have capped – just pop into WvW when you know what you are missing.

The WvW maps are the easiest to map by far.

For the PvE Maps – try guesting for a few days to a higher population server.

I too am lousy at WvW. I’m trying very hard to simply complete my map but can’t seem to quite get it. Unfortunately I’m on a very busy server and can’t afford the huge gem expense to switch servers. I see a rotation take place…try to run to an area that I don’t yet have…and invariably end up getting waylayed by a roving band of enemies. I have no desire to take part in the battles. All I want to do is finish my frickin’ map!

What I’d like to see is an option where a player could be a sort of “Swiss Guard”…totally neutral and allowed entry into any place, so long as he/she stays non-aggressive. I have a feeling that is the only way I’ll ever be able to finish my map!

Try dancing on the spot -
Waving at the enemy or something’s to show you have no intention of fighting.

You might be surprised – they could just let you pass without fighting.
They might kill you once but if you keep running back there they don’t get any points for a second kill later on (within a couple of mins).
Sometimes ask in map- say ‘hey I need this last bit for my mapping – can anyone help me out real fast?’

Some nicer WvW players may help you get it real quick!
Why? They want you off the map so they can get a WvW person into the map so they can fight a bit more for the world. You might get really lucky and have an escort of 50 people help you out !
(Stranger things have happened !)

It’s generally easier if you are not trying to run into there corner of the map (where they spawn). If you are wait for a map rotation.

TPMN.1483:

Try dancing on the spot -
Waving at the enemy or something’s to show you have no intention of fighting.

You might be surprised – they could just let you pass without fighting.
They might kill you once but if you keep running back there they don’t get any points for a second kill later on (within a couple of mins).
Sometimes ask in map- say ‘hey I need this last bit for my mapping – can anyone help me out real fast?’

Some nicer WvW players may help you get it real quick!
Why? They want you off the map so they can get a WvW person into the map so they can fight a bit more for the world. You might get really lucky and have an escort of 50 people help you out !
(Stranger things have happened !)

It’s generally easier if you are not trying to run into there corner of the map (where they spawn). If you are wait for a map rotation.

Funny thing is T2 and T1 servers dont have such luxury. 1 person = to free bag, no matte rhow hard you try or wave all you want they can farm you all they want for free loot. Lower Tiers are easier. Also dude you think you can get your hands on WvW completion that easily even with the rotation? Dont forget EB (Eternal Battleground). On the top tiers try completing another servers Keep, unless you can stay up on the time where there isnt much players on but thats like rarely since the top 3 are like 24/7 covered.

WvW FTW.
PvE are for Sissy!!! XD Excuse my WvW pride XD

@TPMN: Unfortunately for a lot of servers, we don’t seem to be rotating. TC has been stuck as Green for the last 6 weeks in a row. :/ FA switched once from Red to Blue when we got SoR as our third match-up, but they’ve been Red for the other 5 weeks. I thought the colour was supposed to be random? Is it bugged?

I think the color are depending on a servers performance.

I play on a T1 server and these strategies do work even in prime time.
If you have been killed recently – there is no second bag for getting killed again (with tin a short time limit).

With the EB map – you have to wait for rotation (can take several weeks sometimes on a T1 server) so you get into the keep your server owns when your map rotates. It’s much simpler than trying to break into the enemies keep. It may take a while before you rotate to the right place on the map to be able to do this so you can get each keep/tower.
Running from your spawn spot to the your keep (should be a short distance).

The trick in EB and borderland maps is to cover the 1/3 of the map closest to the starting waypoint that your server owns.
That usually will be at least two towers, a keep and a couple of supply camps each rotation.

It’s far harder and longer to complete PvE mapping (time spent/effort) than mapping WvW maps.

SiegeHawk: “PvE for sissy’s” is just an insult – it’s not an excuse for WvW pride either (no matter how you disguise it).
I play both PvE and WvW – and there are plenty of harder aspects to PvE that can be far more challenging than WvW.

I disagree with you on that. PvE maps are Easier to complete dude. PvE maps are easy as hell to navigate. Because you just go right to it, no need to pay attention.
But for me When im in WvW i can help it but to drop my map completion and run right to Defending a keep when needed X.X
Just got back to GW2 havent been on the game for a while =P
WvW here i come.
Gonna roll a new character for WvW now.
It may sound easy to you about completing WvW maps but not for some others.

For me was always on Yaks escort Duty and i never get bore of it =)
Always feel proud for each trip =)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Borderlands-Rotation-Reset-time – will give you info to know when your server will rotate in advance it’s colour.

WvW mapping is a case of waiting for rotations to make it easier.
I have once waited a few months between a rotation until I could quickly go in and complete an area on a map – and then I completed it on multiple characters quickly during that week.

The amount of time spent in the map when rotated should be low compared to the time required in the PvE Maps.

Thanks for that link. I’m quite sure that a patch ended the “colour is tied to performance” requirement though… If not, then our only hope of getting something other than Green is if TC gets bumped up to T1 for a match (becoming Red, and promptly getting smashed by JQ and BG), and then hopefully getting slotted into Blue the next week.

Wait till WvW Season 2 starts – then I’m pretty certain positions will change a little.
It should improve the chances of rotating your Worlds colour.